WOW Secondlife what happend

Xavier Darkstone · December 20, 2011

in 2006 i created my first avatar and entered into a world that was full of others and growing.

when i was there i ran 2 clubs and several shops(first avatars name not current) and did quite well.

i left for awhile and upon my return discovered that most friends are gone and place are allways empty.

after reading posts and opinions of what was happening to secondlife i set out to find the real reasons why secondlife is slipping away.

my findings inside secondlife and in the real world via interviews,chatrooms,etc......

1.computers: the same computer i played secondlife on in 2006 will no longer play it because of the graphics req. and the lag caused....even most new computers dont have the graphics to play on secondlife....you cant expect people to buy a new computer then run out buy a graphics card to just play secondlife.most people get computers from places like best buy and wal-marts that have chipsets that just not good for secondlife.until linded labs fixes this issue and allow players who have the wal-mart type computers to be able to play dont expect many new players.

2.complacations of getting into adult areas....you may or may not like them but they do bring in money and players.again linden labs needs to make this process easy for those who are wanting to enter those areas....all that verfying was crap.

3.gambling was a big part of the community and 1 benift of it was a way for campers to make linds.

4.camping:admit it you done it and ive done it and made lots friends in the process.it was a good way to earn linds to buy things....now try to find a place to camp in secondlife.......

5.Tier..too much money for so little....$9.95 a month plus if you want to build something other than a home its $5.00,$8.00,$15.00,etc for more land to get those awful prims....example my club i was paying $9.95 plus $15.00 which in truth was still not enough prims....linden labs need to lower prices on tier and give more prims.

agree with me or not those are some of the basic facts and others have confirmed them...lets hope linden labs will make changes so secondlife will be around for many more years.....Xavier.

p.s. for those few comments that asked if i did really leave sl or not....yes i did but i did log in once or twice but for less than 5 minutes each time...why this is a issue i have no clue.

also my whole intent was to offer opinions as to why so many are no longer here and a possible way to get them back.

Irene Muni · December 20, 2011

Xavier Darkstone wrote:

2.complacations of getting into adult areas....you may or may not like them but they do bring in money and players.again linden labs needs to make this process easy for those who are wanting to enter those areas....all that verfying was crap.

Actually there is no problem for age verification.

I agree in general with your post, specially with the firt point abour computer requirements (partially solved usign Third Party Viewers).

Marigold Devin · December 20, 2011

Welcome back to everything, Xavier.

Lots of things change - in real life too. Places close down, new places replace them. Or stores are left empty to go derelict. It is (unfortunately) the way of the world.

Speaking as someone who has never left Second Life since creating this account four years ago, people come and go, and often there are only 10 of my friends actually on line at any one time. Many have left.

Gambling, and other things in Second Life, became an issue, and the Terms of Service had to be changed as a result.

There will always be people who prefer to look at the negatives of life, but Second Life is showing no signs to me, and to many others, of slowing down or closing down. Indeed, this year, since LL obtained a brand new CEO in the form of Rod Humble (Rodvik Linden), many improvements have been made.

The sky is not falling in .... just yet :matte-motes-wink:

Xavier Darkstone · December 20, 2011

when i was talking about the age thing i meant to express that isolating the adult areas and at one time entering private info was indeed a liablity in my opinion.

Liisa Runo · December 20, 2011

About the computers:

The current official viewer "v3" still has 4000+ bugs. Maybe in couple years they get the new viewer work as smooth as the old one does. (Untill then, ill keep using the old one.)

SL is not a game, but has 3D stuff and things similar to games. So SL needs gaming computer. SL will never work with computer that is designed for web surfing. People who buy cheap computers and expect it to run heavy 3D software are about as smart as people who buy banana and expect it to work as screwdriver too.

Xavier Darkstone · December 20, 2011

but again if linden labs fixes 1 thing please let it be the graphics issue...most home computers will not run secondlife properly.....maybe introduce secondlife mini a feature that could run on home computers,android cell phones etc.

Ariel Vuissent · December 20, 2011

The problem is that now that the teen grid has been integrated with the main grid and there are a whole bunch of underage players running about, there's a liability issue with adult areas being easy to access or too close to general areas.

I agree with your point about computers, though; I bought a new one recently, good graphics card (not super duper great, but good), and still lag HORRIBLY on anything but low graphics unless I use a V1-based viewer.

ETA: As for running on Android, never going to happen. Running on a standard home computer and running on an Android are two very, very different things. Androids simply don't have the graphics capability, period, much less the memory, etc. required to reliably run such an intensive program. There are text-based clients that can be installed on Android devices to allow one to chat with friends inworld, but you can't see or interact with the world on those clients. I do think the system needs to be revamped to run on a good-not-great computer, though. I'm sure there are ways to get SL to run on something other than a $1500-$2000 gaming rig.

Dresden Ceriano · December 20, 2011

Xavier Darkstone wrote:

1.computers: the same computer i played secondlife on in 2006 will no longer play it because of the graphics req. and the lag caused....even most new computers dont have the graphics to play on secondlife....you cant expect people to buy a new computer then run out buy a graphics card to just play secondlife.most people get computers from places like best buy and wal-marts that have chipsets that just not good for secondlife.until linded labs fixes this issue and allow players who have the wal-mart type computers to be able to play dont expect many new players.

I don't see this as being an issue that LL would be able to fix. It seems to me that you'd have to expect to have to have at least a semi-decent graphics card in order to access a 3-D environment such as SL... there's just no way around that. In fact, I don't think LL suffers from lack of new players... it's getting them to stay that's the hard part.

Xavier Darkstone wrote:

2.complacations of getting into adult areas....you may or may not like them but they do bring in money and players.again linden labs needs to make this process easy for those who are wanting to enter those areas....all that verfying was crap.

It's actually much easier to get into adult areas than it used to be. I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but LL has deemed it fit to invite underage players (16 and 17 y/o) onto the main grid now... so there has to be something in place to stop those players from accessing adult content. There's a lot of people who don't think LL goes far enough, in that respect. I would have liked to have seen SL remain an all adult space, but LL makes the decisions and we have to live with them.

Xavier Darkstone wrote:

3.gambling was a big part of the community and 1 benift of it was a way for campers to make linds...and there are ways to bring it back legaly if linden labs wanted too.

4.camping:admit it you done it and ive done it and made lots friends in the process.it was a good way to earn linds to buy things....now try to find a place to camp in secondlife.......

Let's face it... this just won't happen.

Xavier Darkstone wrote:

5.Tier..too much money for so little....$9.95 a month plus if you want to build something other than a home its $5.00,$8.00,$15.00,etc for more land to get those awful prims....example my club i was paying $9.95 plus $15.00 which in truth was still not enough prims....linden labs need to lower prices on tier and give more prims.

This, I agree with completely.

Another thing, which you left out, is the tragic, often bordering on (if not crossing those borders) incompetent customer service LL provides... even to paying members. Fixing this alone would go a long way to restoring people's faith in LL and quelling people's dissatisfaction with SL.

...Dres

Orca Flotta · December 20, 2011

Actually there is no problem for age verification.

That is not true. Getting age verified is indeed a problem for non-US customers.

Caitlin Tobias · December 20, 2011

Orca Flotta wrote:

Actually there is no problem for age verification.

That is not true. Getting age verified is indeed a problem for non-US customers.

Oh?

I had no problem whatsoever and I am in Europe.

Irene Muni · December 20, 2011

Orca Flotta wrote:

Actually there is no problem for age verification.

That is not true. Getting age verified is indeed a problem for non-US customers.

??

No problem for me (I'm from Spain) and for many friends from Europe and South America. Have you seen the "new" system?: https://secondlife.com/my/account/verification.php?lang=en-US

Peggy Paperdoll · December 20, 2011

Selective memory about SL growing. I was here in 2006. It seems you conveniently forgot that in 2006 the SL concurrency was way less than 20,000. The entire grid would suddenly crash at concurrency levels of 15 k. The grid can now handle over 80,000 concurrent users and often reaches 70,000 during peak hours........that's just about a 400% increase. Back in 2006 there were 3 mainland continents and private estates were few and far between.......the world was much smaller back then. You could push your view on the big map out as far as you could and almost see the entire grid. Try that now........you have to skew the map in all directions many times to see the sims at the edge of the grid (that's a lot of growth).

Computers that were capable of running SL in 2006 but not capable of running SL now is nothing more than progress. In 2006 a graphics card seldom had more than 256 MB video RAM (and those were the high end cards...quite expensive at the time). In 2006 most computers were 32 bit architecture.......system RAM above about 3.5 gigs was impossible to use because a x32 system just cannot recognize anything above that magic number. Not today.....most computers are x64 which has almost unlimited RAM it can recognize. Any program developer who refuses to take advantage of the increase capabilities of the machines that their software runs on is destined to fail. In 2006 computers were desgned for websurfing more than they were designed for online video games (the gamers rigs being an exception and most were custom built machines by enthusiasts). Today's machines are more capable of running online games........those computers of 2006 will have extreme difficulty running most any online game today. You seem to be saying that unless someone has some super duper gaming rig, SL won't run.......that's blatantly false. Any mid range desktop or slightly above mid range laptop will run SL quite well. No, some $299 (monitor and printer included) eMachine will not run SL.....but then that machine back in 2006 wouldn't do it either. You just need a computer with a discrete video card (usually a mid range desktop has one included and a laptop with a discrete card will put about $100 on the price). That's not overly expensive to accomplish. Most off the shelf desktop you get at Best Buy or even Wal-Mart that is priced about $500 will run SL....just make sure it has a discrete video card or can have one installed in it. If LL did not increase the performance of the grid, it would fail........LL did so that a comparable increase in the user's computer is necessary. In the computer/Internet business if you are not going forward you are going backward........there's no such thing as standing still.

Gambling is banned in SL because online gambling is illegal in the United States. Linden Lab is a US company and has to abide by the laws of the US. I'm sure, LL would love to allow gambling since it is a big money maker........they can't so they don't. There is no way around that if LL wants to continue to operate in the United States.

Age verification is very simple now. It's really nothing more than you saying you are over the age of 18 with no requirement beyond your word that it is true. Just like those websites that you click "Yes" I'm over the legal age to enter the site or "No" I'm not. You click "yes" you enter, you click "no" you don't. How complicated is that? The reasons for age verification have been explained......like it or not, it's the "law" in SL.

Camping is not banned. It's quite legal in SL. The reason you don't see it much anymore is that gambing the traffic was being abused by owners of shops and sims by the use of camping and camping bots........it was falsely increasing traffic numbers which placed the businesses higher on the search results. It also filled sims with avatars (and bots) doing nothing and users who wanted to enter sims could not. Since LL cracked down on gaming the traffic numbers, the people who used campers to increased traffic had no use for camping anymore......that should tell you just how much vendors and business owners were using you. Did you really believe their reason to pay you to sit or dance or stand for hours was just to give you some Lindens? Their motives were less than honorable in most cases.

I'm not to comment on tier. My thoughts run almost entirely against what most people think. When anyone opts to pay a published fee for anything they should investigate exactly what they are getting in return make the decision to pay or not to pay. If they later find they don't believe they are getting their money's worth the stop paying.........whinning after the fact about fees you opt to pay is childish and, to be honest in my opinion, is moronic.

PeterCanessa Oh · December 20, 2011

^ This - as usual*. Peggy - sorry, but I've had to report you for exceeding the making-sense limits. More than 3 intelligent posts per week is illegal in GD.

[* With the exception that my old 256Mb GeForce 8300 GS graphics card runs SL fine at High graphics]

Peggy Paperdoll · December 20, 2011

[* With the exception that my old 256Mb GeForce 8300 GS graphics card runs SL fine at High graphics]

Point made..........ban me!!

Phil Deakins · December 20, 2011

Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

Since LL cracked down on gaming the traffic numbers, the people who used campers to increased traffic had no use for camping anymore......that should tell you just how much vendors and business owners were using you. Did you really believe their reason to pay you to sit or dance or stand for hours was just to give you some Lindens? Their motives were less than honorable in most cases.

That's a bit unfair, Peggy. Both campers and owners came out ahead. Campers were "using" the owners, every bit as much as the owners were "using" the campers. There was no dishonour in owners having campers on their land.

It was long after camping was banned (on parcels that are set to show in search) that I created and set up my own camping system in the store - on its own little parcel, of course. I set it up to give something to people, but it only lasted a couple of months. It attracted some regulars, some of whom are still in my friends list, but it also attracted some "less than honourable" people too, who would milk it - against the stated rules that they received in their chat when they sat on a chair. I had 8 chairs operating and I once found a guy with 5 avs on them. The rest were is use or I'm sure he'd have filled those too.

That was the worst that I found, but it's because of that sort of thing that I decided to remove the camping altogether. When it was allowed on land that's in search, it wouldn't have mattered as much, but i really didn't want that sort of milking going on when the giving is all one-way.

I did incorporate a nice little trick in the system though. It wasn't uncommon for people to sit in a chair and then go afk. The system asked the camper a question at set intervals, to make sure there's someone there. If they didn't answer in a certain time, the chair would unseat them BUT, before it unseated them, it moved onto the main parcel, and that's where the av was unseated. If they were going to be afk, then I'd rather have them afk on the store's parcel, and counting for traffic, than on the camping parcel

wiked Anton · December 20, 2011

they wont. they dont care about you or your opinions, they only care about you paying your tiers.they dont really care that much when you have problems, thats why they reduced staff and made it so difficult for them to keep up with dealing with AR's and tickets. Residency in SL HAS increased and probably LL's income as well, so why should they bother, you keep coming back anyway...right?

Peggy Paperdoll · December 20, 2011

Phil, I think (or I hope) you know I don't put you in the same catagory as a significant portion of the vendors in SL. I do happen to believe when camping was "legal" for increasing traffic that most businesses used campers to their advantage, returning very little to the person camping......they only wanted the traffic so their store or shop would move higher on the search results. I know there were a few who didn't do that........I remember a big discussion a long time ago when everyone was calling you a bot runner and you invited me to your shop to see your bots. I was impressed and found out that you were an exception. But I still maintain that most of the vendors used the residents for their personal gain and gave peanuts in return. Most does not equal all. Traffic has always been a hot button issue and campers and bots are always drawn into the discussions....that's because of the businesses who abused both camping a bots. You were not part of that group and I apologize if you took my statement to mean all (which would include you). I wasn't talking about you.

Phil Deakins · December 20, 2011

Hiya Peggy

Aaah, the good old days - when I was the forum bot runner

I did know that you didn't say "all". I was pointing out that both campers and owners gained from it. They each used each other, benefiting from each other.

As time went by, the payments decreased - I even saw 1L$ per 30 minutes, and campers had to be in the group to even be allowed to camp. But back in its hayday, camping mostly paid 2L/10m and often 3L/10m, which isn't bad considering that the campers could be afk doing whatever else. I just thought that demonising the owners was a bit harsh, since the gain was on both sides.

Of course it was peanuts, but it couldn't be any more, considering what the owners got out of it. And the cost of things in SL is peanuts too. Much more and it would have been pointless having camping on the land because the business couldn't make anywhere near what it paid the campers.

Kylie Jaxxon · December 20, 2011

Hi Phil...we communicated for a while back in those days, not sure if it was with Kylie or my previous, Ashe1 Writer...but yeah, you were the man back then, lol. :smileytongue:

Hope all is well with you and Happy Holidays!

Knowl Paine · December 20, 2011

Walmart should sell better computers. Computer manufacturers, like Dell, should not misrepresent the products created by independent contractors at the lowest possible price with the cheapest possible materials.
Access to Adult areas should be as simplified as possible, I agree.
Gambling is only legal when the government gets it's Cut of the profit. Do as they say, not as they do.
I never had a problem with campers, the benefit to a camper was a drop in the bucket when compared to the traffic gaming Resident who enabled camping and who was the final beneficiary.
If Tier was free, I bet a few Residents would complain that free is not good enough, they want an even lower price.

Your statements are close to the facts, but they don't clearly identify the real causes or reasons.

I asked the salesman at Radiohut for a stepper motor and he barked at me, "we don't sell those".

Yeah, ... I bet you don't.

Someone told them they couldn't sell those.

You shouldn't turn the wheels on your printer because it uses a stepper motors (usually 2-3), turning the wheels by hand generates electrical power that can backfeed into the circuitry and possibly cause damage. Connecting them to a wind or water wheel, well... that might be why Radiohut doesn't sell them.

Peggy Paperdoll · December 20, 2011

I believe just before (or maybe right after) I joined SL in October, 2005 Linden Lab paid parcel owners for traffic.......that might have been the part of the reason camping was so prominent back in the day. I camped when I first joined........I didn't do the AFK thing but took that opportunity to meet people and chat while camping. As time went on I saw more and more people just jumping a chair to dance pole and going to work or bed. At first it didn't bother me since my camping was done on a dance pole (I was a freelance stripper)..........it made it easy for me and a good friend to rake in the lindens in tips since we were often the only people who were not AFK. But things started changing and I quit camping all together.

By the way the place I camped at had no shop. The only reason the owner had camping was to get lindens from LL for traffic. I saw no business of any kind at the club. No vendors, no LM to other businesses, no nothing........just a sleazy club with about 8 or 10 dance poles. I met some great people there.

Mayalily · December 20, 2011