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I think we're making progress. Thoughts On The November Update.


Perrie Juran
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The New Viewer.png

 

Todays November update, http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/November-Update/ba-p/1219695 ,  sounded really good.  The new UI looks really great and the stated flexibility sounds fabulous.  Of course we will have to wait and see what is under the hood, but I think this looks really good. 

What I find very exciting is that it appears that LL is finally listening to the greatest experts it has on how to make the In World experience the best:  It's residents.

But still, I think some at the Lab still don't get it.  To quote whoever Linden Lab is:

"With the launch of the new Second Life Viewer on Nov. 8, Second Life Residents can now customize their user interface for a more flexible workspace."

Maybe technically speaking in proper computer jargon you could refer to the UI as a work space, but really to at least me as a user I never think of it as such.  I see it as a portal into this wonderful world that we call "Second Life."  It is a portal into an amazingly vibrant and wonderful virtual reality or world. 

Maybe you have a different term for it or way of looking at it. But I doubt if there are but a few who would call it a "workspace!"  Portal is the best term I know.

So I find this exciting and I am hopeful there will be more good things to come.  It sure does appear to me that the Lab is finally starting to listen, though I am left with the impression whoever wrote that blog post still doesn't quite get it yet.



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Charolotte Caxton wrote:

Your profile inbox.


Oh great... we needed another place to be able to receive spam.  I do like the customization aspect though.

Also, I know you are now able to include pics in your forum feed somehow... exactly how, I have no idea, but that could be fun.

...Dres

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

The New Viewer.png

 

Todays November update, 
,  sounded really good.  The new UI looks really great and the stated flexibility sounds fabulous.  Of course we will have to wait and see what is under the hood, but I think this looks really good. 

What I find very exciting is that it appears that LL is finally listening to the greatest experts it has on how to make the In World experience the best:  It's residents.

But still, I think some at the Lab still don't get it.  To quote whoever Linden Lab is:

"
With the launch of the new Second Life Viewer on Nov. 8, Second Life Residents can now customize their user interface for a more flexible
workspace
."

Maybe technically speaking in proper computer jargon you could refer to the UI as a work space, but really to at least me as a user I never think of it as such.  I see it as a portal into this wonderful world that we call "Second Life."  It is a portal into an amazingly vibrant and wonderful virtual reality or world. 

Maybe you have a different term for it or way of looking at it. But I doubt if there are but a few who would call it a "workspace!"  Portal is the best term I know.

So I find this exciting and I am hopeful there will be more good things to come.  It sure does appear to me that the Lab is finally starting to listen, though I am left with the impression whoever wrote that blog post still doesn't quite get it yet.


See that number 78 in the upper right corner?  That's where we'd have to talk in IM and receive our notices.  My neck hurts from just using for it just one hour as I have a large LCD screen and I'm not a giraffe who can crane my neck that high, nor do I have eyes that pop up like antenae out of the top of my head.

Frankly, I am sick of this and these viewers.  I've gone through at least 20 viewers since March, and I am having a very hard time believing that LL cannot find someone who can build a workable viewer in all these months.  I find this so unprofessional... I'm beginning to doubt LL's sanity.

Just hire someone and get it done already!  What is the problem?  How hard can that be?  There are probably thousands of people who could have been hired and gotten this job of a workable viewer done months ago?  What is wrong with LL?  They don't seem to understand business very well if you ask me.  This is NUTZ with all these viewers.  I'm pretty sick of it right now as it recked my last machine.  Now I have a new machine, and still no properly working viewer?  Sorry, for ranting, but I've never seen a business so poorly run in my entire life.

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Mayalily wrote:

See that number 78 in the upper right corner?  That's where we'd have to talk in IM and receive our notices.  My neck hurts from just using for it just one hour as I have a large LCD screen and I'm not a giraffe who can crane my neck that high, nor do I have eyes that pop up like antenae out of the top of my head.

Frankly, I am sick of this and these viewers.  I've gone through at least 20 viewers since March, and I am having a very hard time believing that LL cannot find someone who can build a workable viewer in all these months.  I find this so unprofessional... I'm beginning to doubt LL's sanity.

Just hire someone and get it done already!  What is the problem?  How hard can that be?  There are probably thousands of people who could have been hired and gotten this job of a workable viewer done months ago?  What is wrong with LL?  They don't seem to understand business very well if you ask me.  This is NUTZ with all these viewers.  I'm pretty sick of it right now as it recked my last machine.  Now I have a new machine, and still no properly working viewer?  Sorry, for ranting, but I've never seen a business so poorly run in my entire life.

Congratulations, May... you are finally getting the picture.  I knew you'd come around.

...Dres

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well finally, the thing I've been say since v1 (and my strongest complaint against v2's design)makes it's way partially into the public viewer....

customization

every modern browser has it, heck, paint programs have had it since the 90's. (and v2 was supposed to be more like a browser, pfft)

let me put things where I want them, let me add or subtract toolbars and buttons.... let me build a a workspace that works for me. they need to go farther down that road though.

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i agree, some things could be improved, but i think we are going in the right direction, the announcements on the top caught me by surprise too, but i learned to live with it, once you are get used to it you dont mind it being there, it seems it was a request from Viewer 1 users, that the messages go on the top, maybe some time in the future we will have the possibility to have them down to where we were used to.

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Charolotte Caxton wrote:

Your profile inbox.


Oh great... we needed another place to be able to receive spam.  I do like the customization aspect though.

Also, I know you are now able to include pics in your forum feed somehow... exactly how, I have no idea, but that could be fun.

...Dres

 

Ok, found out. It is a feature available in a development viewer. (Thanks K)

http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/snowstorm_viewer-development/rev/244722/index.html

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Sure there is lots of distance to go. Like support for multiple monitors so the tool and com widgets can be slid over to secondary/tertiary monitors.

But little improvements like the new destination guide that shows the current number of people at a location is a huge step forward and a much requested feature.

 

One step at a time into the future.

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Mayalily wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

The New Viewer.png


See that number 78 in the upper right corner?  That's where we'd have to talk in IM and receive our notices.  My neck hurts from just using for it just one hour as I have a large LCD screen and I'm not a giraffe who can crane my neck that high, nor do I have eyes that pop up like antenae out of the top of my head.

This is really difficult matter to solve. Some like it down right, some like it top right. Some might like it even somewhere else. Maybe as a compromise they should stick it on the middle of the screen. :smileysurprised: :smileytongue: Everybody would be half satisfied? Or perhaps not... :smileywink:

Seriously speaking, it would be best if it was made so that it could be placed anywhere by the user. :smileyhappy:

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Have you thought about moving your eyes to look, sitting back from the screen or even making the viewer window smaller?  Nobody should ever be getting a sore neck from having to look around their monitor.  Just looking at my monitor I can work out that it would have to be at least another 2ft taller before I would even have to think about moving my head to look.

I'm using FS and if it case that the chat box can't be moved or anchored elsewhere then that's a bit of functionality they should look at as a hotfix or in the next version.

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Sy Beck wrote:

Have you thought about moving your eyes to look, sitting back from the screen or even making the viewer window smaller?  Nobody should ever be getting a sore neck from having to look around their monitor.  Just looking at my monitor I can work out that it would have to be at least another 2ft taller before I would even have to think about moving my head to look.

I'm using FS and if it case that the chat box can't be moved or anchored elsewhere then that's a bit of functionality they should look at as a hotfix or in the next version.

That's not going work.  Looking up at IM's is like looking up at your home button all day long.  Someone in this thread mentioned this was a function people liked from V1, well that than stands to reason that messaging up top came before large LCD screens.  People like large screens now, I cannot look up top to read messages without craning or hurting my neck.  I took out this new viewer and am using the one before. 

I certainly hope they make the messaging system make sense before I continue to spend money on something that is going to become unusable for me. 

They should have kept Phoenix viewer working, and just had someone build the proper viewer and then you pay a few people to test run the viewer, you don't test run your product on your customer's from March to November with no end in sight.  I've never heard of such daft business practices in all my life. 

I'm not taking out any more lindens until LL becomes forthright and ethical and let's people know when the viewer is going to be out of beta, as frankly I am thoroughly sick of all this beta being tested by me and other's for FREE.  They want their customer's to do their job for them instead of spending the money to pay a qualified person to build a viewer.   Also, the posts on this forum said they were in beta to get the bugs out, not to keep changing the UI.  With LL, their story is always changing from one week to the next.  As far as spending, I'm not taking out any more lindens and will play for free until this is out of beta because this is not a normal way to run a business by making your customers do unpaid work for you.

Thumbs down from me to the CEO of this company.  He's lost my confidence in his ability to run a company. 

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How's your monitor located?

Something like this this? :smileysurprised: (That person's neck muscles are screaming of pain!) :smileysad:
comp_monitor_toohigh.jpg


Monitor should be placed low, something like in the photo below, to avoid muscle strain.
comp_monitors_angle.jpg

The monitor should be tilted so that the top edge is further than the lower edge, like in the photo. No need for giraffe neck, nor to stress normal human neck with awkward angle, to see things on top.

I've seen that some people to tilt the monitor so that the top edge is closer and and the lower edge is further in an effort to avoid glare from lighting fixtures. That is the worst possible thing to do! It will lead to discomfort. The proper way to do it is to fix the glaring lighting, and not to tilt the monitor in awkward position.

(The photos show old 4:3 aspect ratio CRT monitors, but this works on modern widescreen 16:9 and 16:10 aspect ratio LCD monitors as well.)

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Coby Foden wrote:

How's your monitor located?

 

Something like this this? :smileysurprised: (That person's neck muscles are screaming of pain!) :smileysad:

comp_monitor_toohigh.jpg

 

Monitor should be placed low, something like in the photo below, to avoid muscle strain.

comp_monitors_angle.jpg

The monitor should be tilted so that the top edge is further than the lower edge, like in the photo. No need for giraffe neck, nor to stress normal human neck with awkward angle, to see things on top.

 

I've seen that some people to tilt the monitor so that the top edge is closer and and the lower edge is further in an effort to avoid glare from lighting fixtures. That is the worst possible thing to do! It will lead to discomfort. The proper way to do it is to fix the glaring lighting, and not to tilt the monitor in awkward position.

(The photos show old 4:3 aspect ratio CRT monitors, but this works on modern widescreen 16:9 and 16:10 aspect ratio LCD monitors as well.)

Nothing like the first picture, no.  I have a fully supporting office chair somewhat like the second picture, and I do not like craning my neck downwards to look at a monitor either as in the second picture.  I did that and got neck strain from looking down so the first line that separate this post is about where my eyes fall, but I use enlarge font as I am far-sighted (I have near vision problem, not far vision problems), so with an enlarge font feature in use, there is no way to explain where my eyes fall, but they fall with my head completely straight and neither looking up nor looking down, thus causes no neck strain whatsoever because my head and neck and shoulder are in good posture looking straight ahead like when one watches TV in a chair. 

I still refuse to spend until LL starts becoming forthright and let's us know when this is out of beta, as I was pretty fed up with beta testing by the Summer.  I am not uninstalling and reinstalling a bunch of viewers again which wrecked my last machine and I got thousands of tickets from Microsoft because uninstalling/reinstalling caused registry errors and all kinds of problems.  I'm not wrecking my new machine because they don't know how to run a business, nor hire skilled people.  No one can tell me that it's logical that LL couldn't have hired developers to get this done MONTHS AGO!

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Mayalily wrote:

 [...] well that than stands to reason that messaging up top came before large LCD screens. [...]

 I'm not sure that's an accurate portrayal.... 4:3 monitors do seem to work out better with top or bottom cutouts (wider field of vision), whereas widescreen formats (16:10, 16:9) tend to work better with left/right cutouts, or balanced around the frame.

for instance I use a 24" 16:9, and place items to the left and right with the chat history top left, and the minimap top right, both always open... I prefer the top placements in the corners because UP is not a dirrection most people tend to look or build for... my inventory goes on the right , the edit window is often open on the left, and I keep IM's on the bottom left (because I rarely keep it ope constantly). I'm not suggestting this layout is better, but it is my preference for SL to keep my central view uncluttered with the most usable range of view in focus.

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Void Singer wrote:


Mayalily wrote:

 [...] well that than stands to reason that messaging up top came before large LCD screens. [...]

 I'm not sure that's an accurate portrayal.... 4:3 monitors do seem to work out better with top or bottom cutouts (wider field of vision), whereas widescreen formats (16:10, 16:9) tend to work better with left/right cutouts, or balanced around the frame.

for instance I use a 24" 16:9, and place items to the left and right with the chat history top left, and the minimap top right, both always open... I prefer the top placements in the corners because UP is not a dirrection most people tend to look or build for... my inventory goes on the right , the edit window is often open on the left, and I keep IM's on the bottom left (because I rarely keep it ope constantly). I'm not suggestting this layout is better, but it is
my
preference for SL to keep my central view uncluttered with the most usable range of view in focus.

Well, the IM's are at the top now which is a strain on the neck.

@  Monitor photos in this thread, that is an old style monitor, so that is a bit outdated as ergonomically correct.

I still refuse to pay for anything until some announcement is made when the viewer is coming out of beta and shows us the DONE VERSION.

You know, they could have created the viewer THEN asked us to test run for a month or so and give feedback, and then from the feedback, they could have gotten the finished version done. 

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i've been using the beta version of it since  close to when it came out and i really like it a lot..

it was nothing to switch from the v2's to this version..

i love the roomy feeling it has..there is plenty of work space when i am creating hehehe :P

i also love that it's not a hog to run..

i love the buttons..about the only thing i could think of was maybe getting a worn tab if they don't have that on the new version..

that and some media/stream/MoaP filters..

i also like the IM's and notices where they put them..now i notice those right away when i come in rather than people hitting me up and all of a sudden noticing that someone had IM'd me an hour ago and it's too late to respond now..hehehehe

 

I can't wait to see what the TPV devs add to it..=)

 

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Mayalily wrote:

Well, the IM's are at the top now which is a strain on the neck.

@  Monitor photos in this thread, that is an old style monitor, so that is a bit outdated as ergonomically correct.

I still refuse to pay for anything until some announcement is made when the viewer is coming out of beta and shows us the DONE VERSION.

You know, they could have created the viewer THEN asked us to test run for a month or so and give feedback, and then from the feedback, they could have gotten the finished version done. 

I guess you won't be paying for anything in SL ever again then.  There is always gonna be a beta viewer because they are always working on improvements.  If you don't like a beta viewer then go back to a version you like or find a TPV that works for you.  You mentioned Phoenix earlier... there's no reason why you can't still use Phoenix.  In fact, there will soon be a version of Phoenix that supports mesh, if that's a concern.

If you don't mind me asking, do you happen to wear bi-focals?  I ask this because I can see, immediately, how that would make it more difficult  to read massages on the top of your screen.  Of course, the solution is still the same... use a viewer you are comfortable using.

...Dres

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Mayalily wrote:

Well, the IM's are at the top now which is a strain on the neck.

@  Monitor photos in this thread, that is an old style monitor, so that is a bit outdated as ergonomically correct.

I still refuse to pay for anything until some announcement is made when the viewer is coming out of beta and shows us the DONE VERSION.

You know, they could have created the viewer THEN asked us to test run for a month or so and give feedback, and then from the feedback, they could have gotten the finished version done. 

I guess you won't be paying for anything in SL ever again then.  There is always gonna be a beta viewer because they are always working on improvements.  If you don't like a beta viewer then go back to a version you like or find a TPV that works for you.  You mentioned Phoenix earlier... there's no reason why you can't still use Phoenix.  In fact, there will soon be a version of Phoenix that supports mesh, if that's a concern.

If you don't mind me asking, do you happen to wear bi-focals?  I ask this because I can see, immediately, how that would make it more difficult  to read massages on the top of your screen.  Of course, the solution is still the same... use a viewer you are comfortable using.

...Dres

No, I don't wear bi-focals.  I was born far-sighted and have had near vision problems since about age 11 when it was discovered.

As far as going back to Phoenix, that messaging system is at the top also from what I remember.

No, I'm not changing a bunch of viewers again.  Been there, done with that. 

And, I know a lot of people who play completely for free, and I am joining them. 

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