for a squatting option, in some abandonned land

[Amethyst Jetaime]

This is a very bad idea. 

Why should someone receive for free what the rest of us pay for?This is NOT RL.  You don't need to play SL to survive.

I don't buy your argument that if you got free land you'd spend money in stores.  Your mindset is to get free stuff.  People that expect free land are not people that will pay for houses and furniture.  They will go to freebie stores, or get there things through hunts or giveaways.

If you don't want to pay for private land, use a free sandbox. Put your home in a rez box and just rez it out in a sandbox when you want to play house. Then when your done pick it up before you leave.  There is absolutely no reason you should have the privledge of leaving it out for free.

If you pay $10,000L for furniture that you lose when you are caught squatting, which could be anytime after you set it out.  If you have money to throw away this way, then you can  pay to rent land. 

Small parcels inside of large ones DO NOT prevent land from being sold.  The other land can always be divided into lots around the small parcel, or the Lindens can join the parcels anytime they want to.  Smaller parcels are in higher demand than mega parcels.

And the biggest argument against your idea is that if you are squatting you are using server resources that should be available to the people who pay tier.  Doing this at best contributes to lag, at worst it prevents paying customers from having their possesions function propertly.  You are not only robbing LL, but your neighbors.

If I find squatters on any land I own or manage, I return it all and ban the items owner from the land.

[Melita Magic]

I honestly wonder if some in this topic are joking.

OP: Must be joking?

Linden Lab is very good about setting smaller parcels to sell to the resident whose land borders it on 3 sides or more. Also will set for sale other land which is abandoned in all but name (just put in a ticket to see if it's been abandoned and somehow not cleared) or abandoned before the day when land automatically set for sale once abandoned. In other words, there is absolutely no reason that makes any sense why having a squatter squat there in the interim would help anything or speed anything along. If you want to be a good samaritan, just report land that needs to be cleared of junk, or set for sale.

Also,  you state that not everyone should be allowed to legally squat on abandoned land - just a few. Including, no doubt, yourself?

To the person who stated that it is "madness" to own and develop land in Second Life since that requires money and "playing Second Life is free." And you "just like to go around, shop, dance, and explore." I have a question for you.

If no one owned and developed land, just what would there be to look at? Buy? Where would you dance? 

Thankfully not everyone is as "sane" as you both are.

 

 

[Melita Magic]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

---

Sylvia Tamalyn wrote:

Simply put, because I like to have the land...it's what *I* enjoy...

---

Okay Sylvia, thanks, and you too for your response in post #35 Qie. I guess that the only response that makes sense, to my query about why pay for something that's free, is because you enjoy doing so, so you can build stuff or have privacy, etc. That's fine with me. I'm not disturbed about it. Actually, I wouldn't mind paying a modest fee for my account to LL, so long as everyone had to, and if by doing so the $L was eliminated along with "private property." But under LL's current business model, as soon as SL costs me a cent of real money, I'm out. It's been fun, and all, but... sheesh! I guess we're all free to set our own priorities!

Jeanne

---

Why should others be deprived of what they value (private property) simply because you neither respect their right to it nor value having it  yourself?

So it isn't enough that you enjoy what others build, create, and host on Second Life - you question their sanity for providing it for you. And then, on top of that, you'd just as soon they lost that entirely. So then what - they can pay, but have no rights whatsoever over what they paid for? 

It sounds as if it irks you that private  homes are not always also available for your enjoyment.

It sounds as if you think that you should not pay, but others should; but conversely, that if  you ever had to pay, everyone else should, but should have no more than you have - nothing.

You stated that your friends give you money and cast off items. Do you tell them they are crazy for paying for them? (Assuming they didn't get everything for free as well.)

I have no problem with freebies - they can be a good loss leader/enticement/ad for creators. Also, people have the right to give things away for free if they wish. I support that completely. But saying that everything should be free and open to the public is a whole other ball of wax. I give things away for free, and my land is mostly open to the public. But I'd never ever think or say that that should be mandatory! If someone wants a mansion and doesn't want to turn it into an infohub anyone can use for free while they do without in real life to pay for it - they should be able to.

In short your posts seem completely self serving to me, as the OP's are completely self-justifying.  I can't wrap my head around that type of mindset that the entire (virtual) world is just there to serve you, but that sounds like what you are both saying.

[Pamela Galli]

JeanneAnne has yet to answer the question of whether she is employed in RL and if so, if she is compensated for it in some way. (Or would it be madness to pay her for her work, if she does any?)''

 

People who work for what they receive generally believe that others who work deserve the same; those who don't work no doubt have an entirely different perspective, one similar to JeanneAnne's.

[Qie Niangao]

---

The inworld sound quality is pretty bad - altho, surprisingly, it seems to have improved in the past ten days or so. All the best SL DJs stream thru Shoutcast & I listen to them on Winamp, with the inworld sound turned off. 

---

If there's any difference at all between how a stream is played by Winamp or "inworld" then there's something horridly messed-up with the way SL was installed on the machine.  It's not as if the SL viewer is really playing the streams itself, after all.  

(I suppose it might be possible for some WinAmp add-on to secretly find a higher bandwidth stream to substitute for the supplied URL, but I don't know of such a thing, and it would be a real timebomb for anybody with a by-bandwidth billing plan.)

[JeanneAnne]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

---

The inworld sound quality is pretty bad - altho, surprisingly, it seems to have improved in the past ten days or so. All the best SL DJs stream thru Shoutcast & I listen to them on Winamp, with the inworld sound turned off. 

---

If there's any difference at all between how a stream is played by Winamp or "inworld" then there's something horridly messed-up with the way SL was installed on the machine.  It's not as if the SL viewer is really playing the streams itself, after all.  

(I suppose it might be 

possible

 for some WinAmp add-on to secretly find a higher bandwidth stream to substitute for the supplied URL, but I don't know of such a thing, and it would be a real timebomb for anybody with a by-bandwidth billing plan.)

---

That may well be Qie, I don't know. All I know is that I go into a club to dance and the sound quality is poor and there isn't much volume. So I ask the DJ if they have a stream over the internet and if so, what's it's url. Some do have and others don't. For those who do have a stream, I open it with Winamp and turn off the ltl speaker icon in SL at the top right. The sound quality is immensely better this way. Lately, however, I have noticed that the inworld sound has improved somewhat altho the volume is still low and the Winamp sound better. I don't know if this improvement is due to something LL did or something I may have done playing with the sliders. Many of the DJs who stream via the internet do so 24/7 altho in these cases, of course, they aren't usually "there" and have their playlists randomized. This is how I usually listen to music these days, whether I'm inworld or not. There are no commercials, the DJs I listen to have good taste and huge music files, and the music is absolutely free. Many I've talked to in SL do the same.

Sometimes I will be in a club and not particularly like the music the DJ is playing, or maybe I do like the music but the sound is poor and they don't have a stream over the internet. In these cases I may still hang out in the club because my friends are there or I like the conversation, but I will have music streaming thru Winamp and not even be listening to the music being played in the club.  Once again, others have told me that they do the same.

Jeanne

[JeanneAnne]

I am relatively new to Second Life and I haven't had time to become acculturated to the mindset of many of you "land owning" old timers. Maybe you have completely forgotten that SL is a virtual world, that there isn't any "land" in it; there isn't even any "space." All there is is binary data in a server somewhere. You don't "own" that server, or the powerplants that supply it with electricity, or the cable network that delivers the data to your computer. You don't "own" anything, least of all any tangible "property" anywhere. You have no control over Linden Lab policy, either. They could change policy in a way you don't like or shut down SL completely, and there would be nothing you could do about it. What you are paying hard cash for is an illusion. It may be a pretty illusion, you may have a lot of time & money & emotional commitment invested in it, but it is in no sense "real." Have you forgotten this? Has Second Life driven you all bat**bleep** crazy?

I wonder what the ratio of paying players is to those who play for free? I don't know but would be interested to learn, if anyone has that statistic. All the Wikipedia says is "However, the vast majority of casual users of SL do not upgrade beyond the free "basic" account." If those of you who pay to play, pretending that by doing so you "own land" somewhere, resent those of us who pay for free, instead of complaining to me about it, why don't you complain to LL about how they run their business? They are the ones who allow the "vast majority" of us to play for free for very few less tangible perks than those of you who support the rest of us receive. If you don't like this state of affairs then feel free to complain to the corporate overlords, or to decline to participate. Maybe if you went on a tier strike, LL would finally listen to you. In the meanwhile, why don't you build your virtual fortresses on your virtual "land," put up your ban lines & security orbs and enjoy the virtual privacy you pay so dearly for. All the while, we, the freeloading masses, will wander around SL, meeting people, dancing, listening to music & having fun.

Jeanne

[Qie Niangao]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

 All I know is that I go into a club to dance and the sound quality is poor and there isn't much volume. So I ask the DJ if they have a stream over the internet and if so, what's it's url. Some do have and others don't. For those who do have a stream, I open it with Winamp and turn off the ltl speaker icon in SL at the top right. The sound quality is immensely better this way.

---

Of course all this is an exceptionally oblique tangent, but what you describe is very odd indeed.  There are separate sliders for parcel audio (and media, and etc) in the SL viewer which tell the actual playback drivers to adjust their volume settings, and I vaguely recall a case where something went wrong with that mechanism (on Macs, IIRC), but this was a very long time ago.

But anyway that's only relevant for parcel audio streams.  If the DJ says they don't have a stream at all, then maybe the sound is coming through voice... could that be?  If so, then yeah, the sound quality would seriously suck, but that wouldn't be relevant to the cases where WinAmp sounds better, since those would presumably set the same stream in  parcel audio -- I can't imagine anybody sending audiio through voice if they're also streaming it.

[Ariel Vuissent]

I like owning land. I don't have to, and I may someday choose to return to not owning land. I don't see why this is any of your concern. I'm not asking you to own land, or looking down on you for choosing not to do so. As far as I can tell, neither is anyone in this thread. You simply decided to post about what you percieve as the "real issue." I percieve it differently. You have every right to choose not to own land, as do the many others who choose the same. Those of us who choose to own land, on the other hand, have every right to do so. And in fact, many of those who choose to own land are the ones you can thank for everything you enjoy in SL. Shopping, dancing, etc, all things you do on land paid for by other residents. Personally, if I read this and owned a business, such as a dance club, I might be moved to put you on a ban list, since you clearly don't respect the work and money that others put into SL so that you may have a good time. Choose to own land, or not, but there's no reason to publicly dismiss and insult those who choose otherwise.

 

As for the squatting issue that is, in fact, the "real issue" in this thread, being the entire reason for it's creation - no. There is no valid reason for squatting to be necessary, and despite the OP's assertions, I don't believe it would encourage most people to buy homes and furniture, or anything else. As someone else said, if they want free land, they likely want everything else for free as well, rather than putting money into SL. If they were going to put money into SL, why not just buy land? Besides which, how will the "chosen few" be chosen? You say this is primariliy to encourage builders - will there be a contest? Those with the best creations win? You did say you already have a "squat," so it's not for you. I respect that, though I don't believe your rationalizations are valid. And you repeatedly seem to forget, in your campaign for squatters to be allowed ot squat and to have rights, that no, squatters in fact have no rights. It's illegal. Period.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

---

Ariel Vuissent wrote:

I like owning land. I don't have to, and I may someday choose to return to not owning land. I don't see why this is any of your concern. I'm not asking you to own land, or looking down on you for choosing not to do so. As far as I can tell, neither is anyone in this thread. You simply decided to post about what you percieve as the "real issue." I percieve it differently. You have every right to choose not to own land, as do the many others who choose the same. Those of us who choose to own land, on the other hand, have every right to do so. And in fact, many of those who choose to own land are the ones you can thank for everything you enjoy in SL. Shopping, dancing, etc, all things you do on land paid for by other residents. Personally, if I read this and owned a business, such as a dance club, I might be moved to put you on a ban list, since you clearly don't respect the work and money that others put into SL so that you may have a good time. Choose to own land, or not, but there's no reason to publicly dismiss and insult those who choose otherwise.

 

---

^^ QFT

@JeanneAnne: Where do you get the idea that anyone thinks that the land in SL is "real"? And why are you so disturbed (to the point of being insulting) that people choose to pay to provide you with the very entertainment you enjoy for free? Honestly, it sounds like you have a bad case of envy going on here...I can't think of any other reason someone would insult people who are doing nothing to you other than providing places for you to have a good time. 

[Melita Magic]

Having read your post in another topic, about your own SL use, I now agree with Sylvia that you are simply envious. Why else would you go so far in your attempts to shame those who build what you enjoy?

 

It isn't just about "owning land" and no one thinks their virtual land is real. (Drat, and I was just about to give up my real home, and move into that tent I rezzed at 3500 meters in the sky. Why did you have to spoil my delusions?)

 

It is about creation. Someone else built that shop, created the things you enjoy outfitting your avatar with, someone else plays the music, someone else DJs the songs, someone else decorated the home or sim you explored, unless it was one with a security orb or banline which seems to anger you. I'm guessing being told No isn't something that you enjoy.

I'm quoting your post below because you have gone way out of your way in an attempt to shame people about their use of Second Life. Perhaps it's your own that you need to look at more closely? Don't blame others if you enjoy Second Life a little too much at times. And no, we are most certainly not "bat blank crazy" for creating what you admit you enjoy a bit too much at times. 

Who are you to tell others they boguht into the illusoin too much when spending money is about the only part of Second Life you haven't bought into yet? If others build the illusion you spend a lot of your time exploiting that, so what does your own condemnation "it is not real, are you all crazy?" say back to  you?

And now I'm done with you - if you are a troll you have lost your amusement factor. If  you are not then you are just a nasty piece of work who needs some self examination.

Your post from another topic since you mention that our SL use is crazy:

" 

I discovered SL back in August and like it very much. Much of the reason I like SL is because I was lucky enough to meet some wonderful people early on, who DJ very good music. I've also met people who share my religious beliefs, which aren't mainstream. In little over two months time I've made some very good friends and listened to some very cool music in SL.

From the beginning I determined not to spend any money on SL other than for the electricity to run my computer. I have stuck to this determination and intend to keep on doing so. This said, I haven't had any difficulty obtaining sufficient $L, freebies and gifts to acquire all the nice outfits, animations, etc., I need to enjoy SL fully. Crafting my avatar's looks, playing dressup with her, being able to fly, and discovering unexpected things - like underwater or skybox stuff - is all fun too. The most fun tho is meeting people and hearing music I would hear nowhere else.

I admit to having a problem limiting my SL time and neglecting RL responsibilities since I've discovered SL. Some nights I have stayed up way too late because of SL and then been braindead at work later that day. One night I didn't get any sleep at all because of SL. I haven't read much since discovering SL and have neglected house & yard work. But I am working on this! I have determined to get to bed by 11 pm on work nights and have been doing so for the past week or two. I have also finished one book since discovering SL and have started another.

I would say that some of the friendships I have made on SL are equal to those in RL. Romantic relationships, though... not so much. I broke up with my first SL BF and it was painful but I would say not nearly as painful as breaking up in RL would be. The newness is already wearing off my second major romantic SL relationship & we will probably break up too. Oh well... I date others in SL more casually & I think that romantic relationships in SL come & go much more frequently, and at much less emotional cost, than in RL. This is just my opinion tho, of course.

Hope this satisfies your curiosity lol4040.

Jeanne "

 

[Melita Magic]

And just to clarify without editing my post (So I'm not accused of changing my post after the fact.) I am not saying your Sl use is crazy - I'm saying that you are as deeply into it as anyone you are slinging those insults at. If not more so.

I don't live SL your way either but I'd never judge it. I am glad you enjoy SL. What I don't get is why you feel it's OK to take from people and then to insult them afterward.  It seems like you are telling yourself everything else is OK as long as you don't spend a penny in world; for some reason that suddenly makes it an insane pastime.

But no one here put you down, and no one called it "Freeloading" (that I saw) except you, yourself. It seems you are displacing a lot of negative feelings onto innocent bystanders in your attempts to shame. Perhaps not owning land and not being in control to some extent has made you angry and you are projecting that onto us.

And as I said most of my land is open to the public - not that I owe that to anyone - it's just what I wanted to do. The only thing I reserve for myself is a little platform with a tent that I use to get dressed. 

You never answered my very pertinent question: Without the 'insanity' of those who create all those things and places you visit, all the things you dress your av in, where would you be?  It seems you owe them a thank you if anything.  And this is why some including Prok speak out against the "freebie culture" - such as Trilegy giving housing or land away, and so many other places giving out freebies. Not because of that in itself - we all began as free residents - I think it's a good way to encourage people to try SL. But because of the enormous sense of entitlement some come away from it with.

I always wondered if anyone would come away from Trilegy thinking that should be what everyone does in SL - basically pay someone else's way - and now I have my answer.

 

 

[JeanneAnne]

Well, I was done with this thread & hadn't intended to revisit it but since some of you seem to be obsessing over my comments, I thot I would clarify a few things.

I don't resent those of you who choose to spend real money on Second Life, nor am I jealous of you. If you enjoy building stuff and then feel like you need a place to keep the accumulated stuff you build, then fine! go ahead and rent space on Linden Lab servers in order to do so. I don't care. If you want me to thank you for doing so, so that myself and the "vast majority" of SL players or residents with free or "basic" accounts have stuff to look at and interact with inworld, I will. Thank you!  I understand how building & scripting in SL can be an outlet for your creativity altho I am a bit perplexed as to why you would pay to keep the code for the stuff you build stored on some corporation's servers, or pay for the tools for expressing your creativity when there are so many free opportunities for being creative elsewhere on the internet and in RL media.

My issue isn't with all you "land owners" and "premium" (paying) account holders. My issue is with Corporatism. I understand that most of you realize that "land" in SL isn't spatial, isn't real. I know that when you say that you "own land" you are only speaking metaphorically. (If any or you have forgotten this then you are crazy.) But when everyone speaks "as if" this "land" and these "objects" you "build" actually are spatial, three dimensional and real, I feel appalled at the sociopathic marketing success of a corporation that has managed to acculturate an entire community of people with such an illusory perspective. Those pay-to-play residents who have expressed resentment at us homeless "freeloaders" - and I acknowledge that many of you commenting on this thread have not done so - are directing their resentment at the wrong people. The REAL freeloader is Philip Rosedale and his corporate cronies. I don't know what his personal finances are but I have little doubt but what you who pay for SL have made him a multi-millionaire, even as he lays off staff, fails to listen to your concerns, cuts corners and offers nil support, all for the sake of the corporate bottom line and his own personal enrichment.

Personally, I would offer solidarity with those of you who financially support these corporate pirates, not offer you scorn or ridicule. It's the rapacious business practices of these 1%ers who autocratically control SL that causes the class distinction between "land owners" and the homeless & $L-less masses. It's their policies that divide us and cause the animosities expressed in this very thread. The Lindens must be laughing when their paying members criticize those who play for free, rather than attacking those who set the policies that result in all the virtual social evils that beset SL. Getting the victims to fight among themselves rather than unite and oppose the oppressor is a tried & true tactic, and it seems to be working here. 

Jeanne

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Having read your previous posts and your last one, it seems to me that you you are back peddling pretty fast to save face in light of  the criticism you received.  You did indeed insult many people here and seem jealous and resentful.  I suggest you retreat to only LInden owned and run locations and stop taking advantage of the generosity of all the land owners and content creators that have provided you with the world you seem to enjoy so much. 

As far as your last post, if you really feel this way, aren't you being hypocritical  for being in SL at all?  By using it you are supporting the "Corporatism" you are so against.  

As a land owner and content creator I have absolutely nothing against the people who play for free. They are more than welcome and more power to them.  What I am against is your overblown sense of entitlement.  You think everything should be free and there for the taking.  I guess you work for free in RL, and don't mind people coming into your home and helping themselves to food and clothing.  This is not the way the world goes round.  You must be very young and naive.

[BornToObey Sideshow]

Please, see my proposals at the bottom, with a bold title .

here some answers first.

@Amethyst:  

--> "why should someone receive for free what the rest of us pay for?"

Because there is a difference betwen what he receive and what you pay for. See at the bottom of this post.

-->"I don't buy your argument that if you got free land you'd spend money in stores.  Your mindset is to get free stuff.  People that expect free land are not people that will pay for houses and furniture. They will go to freebie stores, or get there things through hunts or giveaways"

How can you be so sure of this ? I had bought furnitures only because I had a place to rezz them . I didn't bought houses,castles,etc, because they were often to big for the rezzing area, most of them are for people who own a full land, not a 1024 parcel.

And if you look at the prices, you'll see that they are very cheap, I'm not sure builders get a life from them. But, it's buildings that also give Second life this particular and nice.

This will not change even if my idea is adopted, because there will be a prim limit. But for furnitures, yes, it will change a lot.

-->"If you don't want to pay for private land, use a free sandbox. Put your home in a rez box and just rez it out in a sandbox when you want to play house."

Certainly not !!! Sandbox are killed by people doing what you say. Sandbox are not for free living, but for builders. !

And more and more people live in Sandbox, unfortunately, because there is not another option, who offer a rezzing option. I spent many time in Sandbox, since several years. (Born is my second avs) . All the big ones are dead, or so.

-->"If you pay $10,000L for furniture that you lose when you are caught squatting, which could be anytime after you set it out.  If you have money to throw away this way, then you can  pay to rent land. "

I was not "caught", the land was unified and sold, so it was cleaned. I lost objects du to assets and auto return problems, and I also have lost object the days of cleaning in Trilegy, as most people have. It didn't happen all the time, in fact it should  never happen :mantongue: In Trilegy, after the first lost, I had a way to prevent this: Unrezz paid objects before the cleaning day .:manvery-happy:

10 000 is about 3 years of earnings. In how many weeks shouls it goes away, with a 400 prims lands ?

I have rent a parcel for almost a year, because the owner was a very kind girl giving a price under the market but I spent all my days in Sl or to earn just to pay the small rent.

-->"Small parcels inside of large ones DO NOT prevent land from being sold.  The other land can always be divided into lots around the small parcel, or the Lindens can join the parcels anytime they want to.  Smaller parcels are in higher demand than mega parcels."

read again my posts, I don't speak for 512 parcels, I speak for 4 sqm parcels, in the middle of land. I speak for 2 meters large "trenches" which go for  100 meters. I speak for really small parcells which are a way to speculate. I fly around a lot, (which is one of the best feature in Sl, to fly around) I saw there everywhere, and :

NO, Linden Lab have no way for now to get these parcels. They don't belong to them, they are in the TOS, so here is the problem. A group have been made to buy theses real small parcel (for ex, 2X2 m in my old squat,3 prims) whith support for Linden Lab : It didn't succeed

-->"And the biggest argument against your idea is that if you are squatting you are using server resources that should be available to the people who pay tier.  Doing this at best contributes to lag, at worst it prevents paying customers from having their possesions function propertly.  You are not only robbing LL, but your neighbors."

I use server ressources every time I fly around, with a free account. Prims use a little storage, but they use bandwith and server ressources when they are seen by a viewer. Only when they are seen.

I'm not robbing my neighbors, because abandonned land are almost never on the same server. They are put on old servers with old servers versions, I get warning every time I travel from abandonned parcels to rented parcels..

So you will not have lagg , because of me, even if I have a place near your's..

Oh: I had NEVER HAD a prim on someone else property, it's a basic rule of fair use.

I'm ok that I take bandwith from SL, but, as soon as I am Inworld, I use bandwith !!! so, in an abandonned land, I don't use more than if I was on a LL sandbox, rezzing à 5000 prims fully furnished manor.

And just to say: If I go to my place, instead of flying around, I use less bandwith, because of the cache. ;-)

-->"If I find squatters on any land I own or manage, I return it all and ban the items owner from the land"

I agree with you on this !!! 

I have always say and ask people to never use a private land, because the owner pay for the prims, and it's expensive, and not fair use. I have sometime ask owners of empty lands If I could use it , the answer was always no, and I understand it very well.

I don't want to explain the "good" way to squat here, it's not my goal, and my post is not for it . I know that squatters are every where, as I said, I fly around a lot, and I see a lot of things,  it's why may be a policy for it could help

But believe me. I'm for the property's respect.

------------------------

@Melita magic

-->"you state that not everyone should be allowed to legally squat on abandoned land - just a few. Including, no doubt, yourself? "

No, Melita, in fact I will lost a lot if Linden Lab agree on that proposal. Because it would set up rules

I have no prims limits, no size limits if I found a good one.  I now restraint myself to use too much, because it's also a hard building job, to make full a 14000 prims abandonned land :matte-motes-silly: with a 512 sqm/123 prims  build able rezzing place.... Believe me ! ;-)

It was my first one, so I would not do the same, as it was also wasting time , except may be for particular reason: to make a dead place still alive.

For exemple, one of the best place in Sl have died this week : Lost Gardens of Apollo. I sure would be happy to spent 2 or 3 weeks to rebuild it in an abandonned place, even if it will not stay for long, just to not let that place  disappear for ever in ether. But this place would be neither the same as it was with paid land. And, if Linden decide to make a squatting option, I would never being able to build it . here is why:

_______________________________________________

as some of you have asked or are concerned with my idea, here is  some

              "Proposals" (I hope it is english ?)

Please, I know there is mostly owners here, but review it, and comments on the weak and good points (if any ;-) ) of these lines.

 

The goal is to help Linden Lab, paying residents, and business.

(LL is Linden Labs)

What Land and what privileges:

1 - Not all abandonned lands are concerned. Linden Labs decide of them, as they wish. They can sold these parcels or land at any moment (7 days notice, see below)

2-The numbers of prims available for each squatter is decided by LL (I suggest 400, which is far better than paid land, but  which is balanced by a lot of bad aspects.

3- No stream of any kind is possible on these parcels

4- No voices is possible on these parcels.

5- No selling, shops, advertising, pets growings is possible on these parcels.

6- the servers remain the old ones, this is a take it or leave it option

How does it work:

- A group is created . It will be for announcement for available parcels, cleaning days, and for people who want to squat, as it will be their passport to build in authorized parcels by LL

- Linden Labs  put  the parcels as "build only by the members "of that group.

This group is the relay of LL : When LL decide that a parcel could be available for squat, they labelled it "group only", and send the slurl to the group.

- This group is runned by volunteers, they will only have a list of the parcels from LL and are here to do the cleaning job, and police to make sure that every members get the same eqals sum of prims.

- This group have no right at all, only LL decide when and how this experience will start, end or stay

If LL decide that a parcel is no more available, the group and members agree on it as a Tos of that group

- an abandonned land can be sold at any moment, so squatters can lost their house at any moment, a "7 days before " notice will been sent in this group.

People can be banned of the group, for no respect of the rules. (prims, advertising, pets growing, etc)

After 3 months, they can re-enter the group.

A second ban is for life.

Cleaning , rezzing, prims:

basically, according to LL number of prims available for each squatter, the size of the parcel is divided by that number of prims. 

- Members of the group can rezz as a "first to rezz, first to have" as soon as prims are available after the cleaning date.

-Having a house before doen't give any rights, all rights are erased on the cleaning days. And , anyway, you don't have any right , except to keep your place until the cleaning day, or until LL decide to sold the land..

- members need to take out their commercials objects, as no responsability for failure in auto-return can exist.

- Everyone is asked to rezz balls in their toys, as they count in the prims limits.

A prim counter is available in the parcel  to help squatter to follow the community rules ( it could be an option as it could give lagg, and the goal is to have residents which are responsible)

- basically, each parcel is cleaned on a time base, decided by Linden Labs. To avoid servers stress, and for easier management for the free admins of the groups, parcels will not be cleaned at the same day.

Admins of the group can not have more sqm, or prims than others members. it's obvious, but it is better when it is said ;-)

Community

-a second group is created, a chat group, only for squatters to share knowledge, and to help each others. This one is for community purpose. You need to be part of the first one to get acces to this one (is it possible ??) may be it also not good, as this second group could be use for land's owner to advertise for renting place. so ...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I may have forgot a lot. and it is just some ideas of what it could be.

But, really, give my your opinion. This is not to replace paid land. This is not to kill your business. This is just to bring more people to stay in Sl...

[JeanneAnne]

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Having read your previous posts and your last one, it seems to me that you you are back peddling pretty fast to save face in light of  the criticism you received.  You did indeed insult many people here and seem jealous and resentful.  I suggest you retreat to only LInden owned and run locations and stop taking advantage of the generosity of all the land owners and content creators that have provided you with the world you seem to enjoy so much. 

As far as your last post, if you really feel this way, aren't you being hypocritical  for being in SL at all?  By using it you are supporting the "Corporatism" you are so against.  

As a land owner and content creator I have absolutely nothing against the people who play for free. They are more than welcome and more power to them.  What I am against is your overblown sense of entitlement. 

You think everything should be free and there for the taking.

  I guess you work for free in RL, and don't mind people coming into your home and helping themselves to food and clothing.  This is not the way the world goes round.  You must be very young and naive.

---

Yes, I do.

I take Marx's prescription seriously:

"From each according to ability, to each according to need."

I take John Lennon seriously when he says:

"Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can

No need for greed or hunger

A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people

Sharing all the world"

Anything that's in my inv that's transferable you are welcome to Amethyst.

"You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will live as one"

Jeanne

 

[JeanneAnne]

"For exemple, one of the best place in Sl have died this week : Lost Gardens of Apollo. I sure would be happy to spent 2 or 3 weeks to rebuild it in an abandonned place, even if it will not stay for long, just to not let that place  disappear for ever in ether."

Just let it go BornToObey Sideshow. It was never anything but binary data stored in a server. It was ephemeral, as everything is, whether virtual or actual. Enjoy it in the moment, while it exists, or appears to. Then let it go when it goes ~poof!~ . No attachment. Second Life won't last forever, any more than your First Life will.

Happy Halloween!!

Jeanne

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

"From each according to ability, to each according to need." 

---

Who determines the ability?

Who determines the need?

[JeanneAnne]

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

"From each according to ability, to each according to need." 

---

Who determines the ability?

Who determines the need?

---

The individual him- or herself.

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

"From each according to ability, to each according to need." 

---

Who determines the ability?

Who determines the need?

---

The individual him- or herself.

---

When you've created an individual for whom that works reliably, let me know.

[Pamela Galli]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Having read your previous posts and your last one, it seems to me that you you are back peddling pretty fast to save face in light of  the criticism you received.  You did indeed insult many people here and seem jealous and resentful.  I suggest you retreat to only LInden owned and run locations and stop taking advantage of the generosity of all the land owners and content creators that have provided you with the world you seem to enjoy so much. 

As far as your last post, if you really feel this way, aren't you being hypocritical  for being in SL at all?  By using it you are supporting the "Corporatism" you are so against.  

As a land owner and content creator I have absolutely nothing against the people who play for free. They are more than welcome and more power to them.  What I am against is your overblown sense of entitlement. 

You think everything should be free and there for the taking.

  I guess you work for free in RL, and don't mind people coming into your home and helping themselves to food and clothing.  This is not the way the world goes round.  You must be very young and naive.

---

Yes, I do.

I take Marx's prescription seriously:

"From each according to ability, to each according to need."

I take John Lennon seriously when he says:

"Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can

No need for greed or hunger

A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people

Sharing all the world"

Anything that's in my inv that's transferable you are welcome to Amethyst.

"You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will live as one"

Jeanne

 

---

As I pointed out when you posted this adolescent drivel in other threads: 

 

John Lennon was a billionaire who owned several multi-million dollar apartments in the famous Dakota apartment building. All the while imagining no possessions, no doubt.

 

And once again: Do you work for a living in any world JeanneAnn?  Are you in any way compensated for your work? Why do you think that those of us who work making things for SL deserved no compensation?

[JeanneAnne]

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

"From each according to ability, to each according to need." 

---

Who determines the ability?

Who determines the need?

---

The individual him- or herself.

---

When you've created an individual for whom that works reliably, let me know.

---

The only reason the person of ability would slack, or the person with need would ask for more then they need, is because they are afraid. Afraid of being taken advantage of, for instance, or afraid that if they don't take more then they need now, they will suffer from want later. In a culture where fear prevails, these are legitimate concerns. But Imagine a culture where no one need be afraid because they can count on the unconditional support of everyone around them. Imagine living in a society where one's creativity is fully appreciated and valued, and one's needs are freely and generously provided for. Can you?

All greed and jealously and resentment, all negative emotions and behaviors, are rooted in fear. For the corporate executive to feel that he "needs" to be a millionaire, while others go hungry, for the "land owner" in SL to put up ban lines & security orbs around the "property" they pay for, are both examples of fearfulness. Imagine living without fear. Imagine not needing to retreat into fear induced selfishness, because you know that all your needs will be met, including your need for recognition for all the wonderful contributions you make. Of course you can dismiss all this as naivety and idealism. Cynicism is the outcome of fear, too. Along with John Lennon, I ask you to Imagine, Madelaine. Imagine a better world than this; two better worlds in fact: the virtual and the actual. My hope for SL is that it can be a place where we practice fearless selflessness, so that maybe it can begin to bleed over into RL. We have to start somewhere. Why not in SL?

"I hope someday you'll join us."

Jeanne

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

I take Marx's prescription seriously:

I take John Lennon seriously:

---

I think the problem here is that they were both prescribing and/or taking hallucinogens.

Their tautology of imagining a world in which there are no problems because they've imagined there are no problems is hardly helpful.

[JeanneAnne]

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

I take Marx's prescription seriously:

I take John Lennon seriously:

---

I think the problem here is that they were both prescribing and/or taking hallucinogens.

Their tautology of imagining a world in which there are no problems because they've imagined there are no problems is hardly helpful.

---

Marx never prescribed hallucinogens. In fact, he criticzed pharmacological respite from the misery imposed on the proletariat by the bourgeoisie. This is where I disagree with him, however. Altering consciousness by means of herbs & fungi is a human universal. And we all know what a stoner John was... :matte-motes-wink:

Your accusation of tautology here is a non-starter, Madelaine. No one ever called for "imagining a world in which there are no problems." There's always going to be problems caused by accidents and disease, weather and earthquakes, etc. Claiming that Marx, Lennon, or me, have called for imagining such a fantasy is disingenious, and you know it. What we call for imagining, and attempting to actualize, is a world of equality and unconditional human support for one another. A world where resources are shared equitably, in which commodities are distributed fairly and private property & money don't exist. Can you Imagine such a world? If not, why not? Is it because you don't believe it's possible? If so, why not? If you're honest with yourself, is it not because you're afraid to?

Jeanne

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

I take Marx's prescription seriously:

I take John Lennon seriously:

---

I think the problem here is that they were both prescribing and/or taking hallucinogens.

Their tautology of imagining a world in which there are no problems because they've imagined there are no problems is hardly helpful.

---

Marx never prescribed hallucinogens. In fact, he criticzed pharmacological respite from the misery imposed on the proletariat by the bourgeoisie. This is where I disagree with him, however. Altering consciousness by means of herbs & fungi is a human universal. And we all know what a stoner John was... :matte-motes-wink:

Your accusation of tautology here is a non-starter, Madelaine. No one ever called for "imagining a world in which there are no problems." There's always going to be problems caused by accidents and disease, weather and earthquakes, etc. Claiming that Marx, Lennon, or me, have called for imagining such a fantasy is disingenious, and you know it. What we call for imagining,

and

attempting to actualize, is a world of equality and unconditional human support for one another. A world where resources are shared equitably, in which commodities are distributed fairly and private property & money don't exist. Can you Imagine such a world? If not, why not? Is it because you don't believe it's possible? If so, why not? If you're honest with yourself, is it not because you're afraid to?

Jeanne

---

I don't need to imagine it, we're actually improving, though not by the methods espoused by either of your examples.