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Verena Vuckovic

Land Of The Giants

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Anaiya Arnold wrote:

Sure, you're encouraging them by trying to make them feel guilty for making you wonder if something is wrong with you (because for some reason although they could choose to not look at giants, you cannot choose to not read their comments about giants).

This is about one of the most ridiculous things I've read in this forum in quite a while.  How about letting people be whatever size they choose without trying to make them feel like there's something wrong with them for it?  The part in parentheses makes no sense what-so-ever and has nothing to do with anything anyone has said here.

 


Anaiya Arnold also wrote:

Yes, how could anyone mistake that for anything but encouraging?  It sure does not sound like an attempt to characterize people as a bunch of ineffectual whingers because they come to the forums to express their opinions (those ranters).

No one said anything like that either.

 

 


Then Anaiya Arnold wrote:

As for not making any change, at least the minority get to see they are not alone in their shortness which means they might spend less time wondering if something is wrong with them.  After all, unlike you, they are in the minority and are the ones getting booted from land, oh and accused of being age players by implication if not publicly accused and remonstrated with in front of other avatars.

Oh I get it... you wonder if there's something wrong with yourself because of your choice to have a short avatar... so, to offset that insecurity, you try making people that want to have a taller avatar feel that way instead.  Good luck with that.

...Dres

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Well, some places require a certain size because they built the area for a certain size.  That's not unreasonable.  If you want to wander or hang out there, you save a shape and clothes adjusted to that size.  If somebody went to some bother to make a place to a certain scale, I don't think it unreasonable for them to want people who come there to adjust scale.  If you don't like it, you don't go there.

My usual avatar is a "realistic size", I guess, and is proportionate.  I have a couple of body shapes adjusted to a little shorter for places like the Doomed Station where they ask for a certain height for the sake of scale.  My usual was already an ok height for 1920's Berlin.  If I wanted to go someplace that asked for a height of 8 ft 2 inches, I'd take a few minutes with the sliders and maybe even save the adjusted shape if I enjoyed the place enough that I felt I was likely to go back there again.  Why not?  It's an adventure.  Some people I end up standing next to do indeed seem rather amazingly tall and small-headed.  I think a lot of that is camera angle though.  The behind-and-above camera angle maybe makes heads seem a bit large to some folks due to foreshortening from the perspective used and so they perhaps adjust it to look more normal from the default POV?

But yes, I had noticed that 15 ft door thing lately, since I rented my first apartment recently.  LOL  I kind of noticed that the door handle was at about head height, so I took some measurements.  5 meter tall door, and the "small" apartment was 20 meters long.  I think it's great!  Extra value in that extra space.  Yeah, I also noticed my feet didn't touch the floor with the first kitchen chair I bought.  No big deal.  Right click and edit items to fit.  I don't usually buy anything I can't mod, anyway.  

My wife also thought it amusing when she looked over my shoulder when I was trying some different decor in the SL apartment.  "Why is the door so big?"  I explained that actually my avatar was shorter than average in SL, since it's about the same height as I am in RL but most people apparently like to fantasize themselves a bit taller.  "Well, now you see what that's like!"  (She's only a little over 5 ft tall and has complained more than once over the years about everything in the world being made for taller people.)  It was a good laugh.

I've never had anyone mistake my avatar for a child.  Facial hair, build, manner, tattoos...just not very child-like.  But I can see where it might be less obvious for female avatars.

Now, you want something to gripe about, how about all the animations that are right handed?  Some of us people are lefties in RL, y'know!  Ok, I'm closer to ambidextrous in RL, from living left handed in a right handed world.  I can drink a cup of coffee with either hand, but my poor avatar doesn't seem to be able to.  LOL 

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Just make a 'tall shape' of yourself. Take some time to make it look good then save it and keep it in your inventory for when you are at that club. It just takes a few seconds to change shapes. Switch back to regular size when you leave. There's really not much more you can do about it .

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Dana Hickman wrote:

People need to forget the false numbers and use proportion as their guide.

And yet if you use proportion as your guide you will end up with an avatar under 6 feet tall. You can't do humanistic proportions otherwise.

 

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I have a theory about why this has happened.  Men seem to have been the first to have gotten taller and larger over the years  I suspect that a lot of men come to SL and want to look imposing so move those sliders up to the max they can. Other men follow suit because they don't want to be perceived as short.   Then when the women dance with these men or use other standing animations they are floating a foot or two off the floor, so they adjusted their height too.

I see more gigantic women than men.

But I'm not going to subscribe to any sexist theories either way. Both sides seem to have 'art and visualization' issues.

 

 

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Griffin Ceawlin wrote:


Anaiya Arnold wrote:

Sure, you're encouraging them by trying to make them feel guilty for making you wonder if something is wrong with you (because for some reason although they could choose to not look at giants, you cannot choose to not read their comments about giants).


Nobody here has attacked Verena for choosing what some might see as a diminutive avatar, one that some apparently even mistake for a child avatar.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Your-Avatar/Where-to-draw-the-line-between-Adult-vs-Child-avatars/td-p/1094775

- A typical attack. We get more of these threads than we do threads from us 'human-shaped-folk'.

 

And Verena's not exagerating either.

Take some snapshots and line the people up against photos of RL folks, the ventruvian man, and assorted anatomy-text images (easy to get online).

- A -lot- of avatars, almost anyone over 7-feet, look like stick figures.

Most have tiny mico-hands on t-rex arms with massive shoulders.

Many men have female facial structure. Many women have male facial structure.

The problem is silly to an extreme.

 

I blame Republicans cutting school budgets and causing the closure of art-classes. :D

- Clearly something is behind this many people having no clue how to draw a human form.

 

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Yes MuffinUnsane, of course landowners get to make their rules. 

@ Griffen, you might be unaware of this, although given the exposure the issue has had on the forums, it kind of beggars belief, but short avatars often come to the forums and claim to have been accused of age play due to their height.  The OP is in the group that receives such accusations (a group that is evidently in the minority, unlike Ariel when it comes to this trait).  Ariel's concern is that she Ariel is being made to wonder if something is wrong with her when such people show up here frustrated with the treatment they've received in world and let loose some of that frustration. Ariel's solution to the OP is to not look at tall avatars, although she seems unable to apply this same strategy to forum posts that make her (Ariel) wonder if there is something wrong with herself.

 

 

@Dresden, based on the utter irrelevancy of your post to anything I actually typed, I do not believe it is the most ridiculous thing you've read because it's gosh darned difficult to believe you read it.

It seems you've also not read Ariel's posts so allow me to help you out by reposting the quote that my comments in parentheses refer to. 

If you don't like seeing tall, thin women with long legs, ignore them, or wander elsewhere where there may be more people who meet your own vision of acceptable

As to letting people be whatever height they want, what has that got to do with my comments?  Perhaps you meant to direct your comments about irrelevancy at yourself?

My post contains the quoted text from Ariel where she claims this:

That choice is yours. Rant all you want here in the forums, it's not going to chnage until a group of people STOP ranting and actually do something. "I don't like it, grr, argh" doesn't go very far towards making change.

Please explain in your own words how this claim is not a claim of ineffectuality.  If you cannot infer the implication that the OP and others who come here to express such veiws, are whinging from Ariel's characterization of her comments as  "I don't like, grr, argh" then I guess inference is not your area of strength. 

I have no idea why you think I have a short avatar.  Nor do I have any idea why you think I try to make people with tall avatars feel any specific thing.  If you ever actually bother to read my post, you might notice the absence of any comment concerned with the height of my avatar, and the absence of any comment regarding my valuation of various avatar heights.  Or at least you should notice such things if you have a literacy level that would be passable for a 12 year old.

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Anaiya Arnold wrote:

@ Griffen, you might be unaware of this, although given the exposure the issue has had on the forums, it kind of beggars belief, but short avatars often come to the forums and claim to have been accused of age play due to their height.  The OP is in the group that receives such accusations (a group that is evidently in the minority, unlike Ariel when it comes to this trait).


I would suggest that the OP, and others who are accused of ageplay merely for having shorter avatars, should direct their accusers to this page. A little education goes a long way.

If the OPs avatar resembles her current inworld profile picture, I certainly would not be one to accuse her of ageplay, or even mistake hers for a child avatar.

 


Anaiya Arnold wrote:

Ariel's concern is that she Ariel is being made to wonder if something is wrong with her when such people show up here frustrated with the treatment they've received in world and let loose some of that frustration. Ariel's solution to the OP is to not look at tall avatars, although she seems unable to apply this same strategy to forum posts that make her (Ariel) wonder if there is something wrong with herself.


Most people who have shorter avatars that come to the forums and claim to have been accused of age play due to their height also don't lead off talking about taller avatars looking like "barely human... monstrous stick insects." Do they?

Instead of just venting some of her frustration, the OP has chosen to attack the choices that other people have made in the sizes of their avatars. Is there not a whiff of hypocrisy there?

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Emasculation 7.jpg

 

/Rant on:

Teh Wow!

It's a flippin cartoon world!

But seriously, if we are to take the OP's comments about realism to the max we should all be screaming for an avatar mesh with realistic male parts, realistic male and female nipples that respond and look the way they do in RL.  While there are some very well designed penii attachments I have yet to see one that truly looks and acts like the real thing.  So should all the naturists band together and scream bloody murder and demand that LL fix all the emasculated Ken Dolls in SL?  Should every one stop jumping on poseballs because they never line up quite perfectly? Should those of us who enjoy it stop having Slex because it doesn't look 'real.'

Do we ban Faeries and Furries because they are not real?

MAYBE I LIKE LONG STICK FIGURE LEGS ON MY SL WOMEN!   There is that proverbial woman in RL who's legs seem to never end. 

While I do understand the frustration of some people, that they encounter strict rules set by SIM owners regarding avatar height in order to adhere to the TOS regarding age play, I do both understand and support the SIM owner's concerns.

It's "Your World, Your Imagination, " so you know what I do?  I use my imagination to fill in what is lacking.  Because after all, it is a cartoon world.  Yes, there are real people behind the Avatars.  I am not saying that isn't so.  But the world itself is just pixels on a screen.

/End Rant

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Anaiya Arnold wrote:

@Dresden, based on the utter irrelevancy of your post to anything I actually typed, I do not believe it is the most ridiculous thing you've read because it's gosh darned difficult to believe you read it.

It seems you've also not read Ariel's posts so allow me to help you out by reposting the quote that my comments in parentheses refer to. 

If you don't like seeing tall, thin women with long legs, ignore them, or wander elsewhere where there may be more people who meet your own vision of acceptable

As to letting people be whatever height they want, what has that got to do with my comments?  Perhaps you meant to direct your comments about irrelevancy at yourself?

My post contains the quoted text from Ariel where she claims this:

That choice is yours. Rant all you want here in the forums, it's not going to chnage until a group of people STOP ranting and actually do something. "I don't like it, grr, argh" doesn't go very far towards making change.


Please explain in your own words how this claim is not a claim of ineffectuality.  If you cannot infer the implication that the OP and others who come here to express such veiws, are whinging from Ariel's characterization of her comments as  "I don't like, grr, argh" then I guess inference is not your area of strength. 

I have no idea why you think I have a short avatar.  Nor do I have any idea why you think I try to make people with tall avatars feel any specific thing.  If you ever actually bother to read my post, you might notice the absence of any comment concerned with the height of my avatar, and the absence of any comment regarding my valuation of various avatar heights.  Or at least you should notice such things if you have a literacy level that would be passable for a 12 year old.

Oh lord... I'm perfect happy to discuss this with you point by point... what I won't do is address someone that, instead of setting forth a well thought out argument on the matter, decides to merely try to belittle me by making claims as to my lack of reading comprehension.  By doing so, you have made yourself and any argument you might have had, irrelevant.  I see no use in discussing it with you any further... though I will say that I stand by my opinion of the ridiculousness of your previous post.

...Dres (And besides that, I've already said everything I've had to say on the matter.)

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


 I blame Republicans cutting school budgets and causing the closure of art-classes.
:D

- Clearly something is behind this many people having no clue how to draw a human form.

 

it may not be that they don't have a clue..it may be that everyone is issued an avatar..and not everyone is here to create the perfect human..

if someone were really serious about creating on that level which we want to call artist...do you really think sl would be the program they would be using?

it's crap for that lol

you can't even get this mesh to animate worth a damn..

i'm betting it's not that everyone is so clueless..it's that the majority probably just doesn't give a damn and it looks like everyone is clueless..LOL

most won't have a complex about it till some hero comes along and tells them they are doing it wrong..

hehehehe

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Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"Part of the problem is that many are hung up about the
numbers
of their height, and still think they have some relation to real world measurements.. they do not. They are for game use only, and only as an internal reference. The true measurement of ones height is in relation, and proportion to the averages found in SL."

 

This is nonsense. Things DO actually have specific sizes in SL There are no relative sizes.....a sim is specifically 256 meters by 256 meters. Rez a block and it will specifically say 1 meter. If your height says 8 fot 2 inches...it is because you ARE 8 foot 2 inches !

Reread.. i said the NUMBERS are not related to real world measurements, as in they are not a 1 to 1 ratio. NOwhere did I say a flippin thing about anything not having specific sizes in SL. In fact, I even validated that by specifically saying they're an internal game reference..which means I can NOT have said they don't exist. So what's the real reason you called nonsense on 3 consecutive opinions on the subject? They are, after all, opinions.. and not yours to correct tyvm.

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Dana Hickman wrote:

People need to forget the false numbers and use proportion as their guide.

And yet if you use proportion as your guide you will end up with an avatar under 6 feet tall. You can't do humanistic proportions otherwise.

 

The quote of mine you're talking about is taken out of context. I was referring to AV size in proportion to the world of SL and the other people in it, NOT AV shape proportion. How people shape and balance the parts of their AV is unrelated to what I was saying about scale.

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My avi is also on the shorter side and often get accused of age play as well. My avi has been in sl since 2006 and I have always been the shortest around.  So I am pretty used to the comments I get.  

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Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

I would suggest that the OP, and others who are accused of ageplay merely for having shorter avatars, should direct their accusers to
. A little education goes a long way.

If the OPs avatar resembles her current inworld profile picture, I certainly would not be one to accuse her of ageplay, or even mistake hers for a child avatar.

None of which explains why rather than bring out the emotional blackmail guilt trip, Ariel does not just choose to not read forum posts that make her wonder if something is wrong with her. 

 

Anaiya Arnold wrote:

Ariel's concern is that she Ariel is being made to wonder if something is wrong with her when such people show up here frustrated with the treatment they've received in world and let loose some of that frustration. Ariel's solution to the OP is to not look at tall avatars, although she seems unable to apply this same strategy to forum posts that make her (Ariel) wonder if there is something wrong with herself.


Most people who have shorter avatars that come to the forums and claim to have been accused of age play due to their height also don't lead off talking about taller avatars looking like "barely human... monstrous stick insects." Do they?

So what? It did not cause me to wonder for even a second if there was something wrong with me?  Did it make you wonder if there was something wrong with you?  Just how insecure am I supposed to believe Ariel is?

Instead of just venting some of her frustration, the OP has chosen to attack the choices that other people have made in the sizes of their avatars. Is there not a whiff of hypocrisy there?

I'd say there is a good deal less hyposcrisy there than there would be if she'd added that she encourages people to have tall avatars. Do you disagree?

 

@Dresden,  yes you are perfectly happy to discuss it point but point but have some excuse ready as to why you will not and you'd like me to believe that this excuse rather than the fact that you cannot refute anything I've said is the reason why you will not discuss it.  

I had not even attacked your reading and comprehension skills which you would have realized if you had any.  But I have now.  Happy?

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Anaiya Arnold wrote:


Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

I would suggest that the OP, and others who are accused of ageplay merely for having shorter avatars, should direct their accusers to
. A little education goes a long way.

If the OPs avatar resembles her current inworld profile picture, I certainly would not be one to accuse her of ageplay, or even mistake hers for a child avatar.

None of which explains why rather than bring out the emotional blackmail guilt trip, Ariel does not just choose to not read forum posts that make her wonder if something is wrong with her.


"Emotional blackmail guilt trip"? I must have missed that. The one that you seem to be trying to say that Ariel is guilty of trying to foment, anyway. Hard to miss the OPs attempt, though...

 


Most people who have shorter avatars that come to the forums and claim to have been accused of age play due to their height also don't lead off talking about taller avatars looking like "barely human... monstrous stick insects." Do they?

So what? It did not cause me to wonder for even a second if there was something wrong with me?  Did it make you wonder if there was something wrong with you?  Just how insecure am I supposed to believe Ariel is?


No, I didn't wonder if there was something wrong with me. I'm perfectly happy with my avatar as it is. I don't know about Ariel. She doesn't strike me as someone who's terribly insecure, but I also only know her from the posts of hers that I've read.

The message that I'm getting, though, is that while everyone should be sympathetic to the OP and anyone else who has a shorter avatar, it's perfectly fine to try to make people who have taller avatars feel as though something is wrong with them. Is that about right?




Instead of just venting some of her frustration, the OP has chosen to attack the choices that other people have made in the sizes of their avatars. Is there not a whiff of hypocrisy there?

I'd say there is a good deal less hyposcrisy there than there would be if she'd added that she encourages people to have tall avatars. Do you disagree?


Um... No? I guess not, but... Huh? You seem to have missed my point.

OP comes to the Forum... "Boohoo! My shorter avatar is accused of being a child avatar. Discrimination! It's the fault of all those FrankenBarbies! Monstrous, hideous things that they are!!!" So... OPs avatar and others of comparable size are "normal" and everything else is... well... just "ludicrous"... and other people should "stop the insanity" and make their avatars smaller.

Is OP not guilty of behaving in much the same way as those she rails about?

 

P.S. I find your assertion that you hadn't attacked Dresden's reading and comprehension skills laughable. Did you actually read your comments to him?

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

/Rant on:

Teh Wow!

It's a flippin cartoon world!

But seriously, if we are to take the OP's comments about realism to the max we should all be screaming for an avatar mesh with realistic male parts, realistic male and female nipples that respond and look the way they do in RL. 
While there are some very well designed penii attachments I have yet to see one that truly looks and acts like the real thing.  So should all the naturists band together and scream bloody murder and demand that LL fix all the emasculated Ken Dolls in SL?  Should every one stop jumping on poseballs because they never line up quite perfectly? Should those of us who enjoy it stop having Slex because it doesn't look 'real.'

Do we ban Faeries and Furries because they are not real?

MAYBE I LIKE LONG STICK FIGURE LEGS ON MY SL WOMEN!
   There is that proverbial woman in RL who's legs seem to never end. 

While I do understand the frustration of some people, that they encounter strict rules set by SIM owners regarding avatar height in order to adhere to the TOS regarding age play, I do both understand and support the SIM owner's concerns.

It's "Your World, Your Imagination, " so you know what I do?  I use my imagination to fill in what is lacking.  Because after all, it is a cartoon world.  Yes, there are real people behind the Avatars.  I am not saying that isn't so.  But the world itself is just pixels on a screen.

/End Rant

You would make it all about the penii.

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Oh my, really this is not a huge issue.  Make your avatar however you want.  Be aware there is an 'issue' with those who look like children on other than G-rated sims.  Landowners can do whatever they wish with their land, ban whomever and for whatever reason.  Accept it or not, your choice.  Unfortunately the 'world' will not change because you demand it to change (for you).

Relax, kick back and go to places where you and your friends can have fun and enjoy.

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We should form an army of small shaped avatars and raid those sims ruled by people with no brain :matte-motes-bored:

(Children don't have a shape like a woman! Its not ageplay or whatever, if your not 2 meters high!)

How about a sim where no avatars with dark skin are allowed? Its the same kind of discrimination. And to all who say small people should search for their own sims....isn't it wrong to build in SL even higher walls of discrimination and prejudice?

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Syo Emerald wrote:

We should form an army of small shaped avatars and raid those sims ruled by people with no brain :matte-motes-bored:

(Children don't have a shape like a woman! Its not ageplay or whatever, if your not 2 meters high!)

How about a sim where no avatars with dark skin are allowed? Its the same kind of discrimination. And to all who say small people should search for their own sims....isn't it wrong to build in SL even higher walls of discrimination and prejudice?

Sure, you can gang up and 'invade' any sim and do not be surprised if you get ejected and banned.  It is not discrimination if a sim owner chooses to run their sim as they see fit.  There are RP sims that require you to conform to one of several character types in order to 'play'.  There are capture and rape sims that require the females to be the hunted in all cases.  I do not care to 'play' in those areas so I avoid them.  There are plenty of other places I can go and enjoy.

 

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A RP sim is different from a "normal" sim. The reason for the existance of the sim can only be fullfilled if the atmosphere is right and everybody can concentrade on playing a charakter in....lets say a medival environment. It just kills the roleplay if someone jump in and try to be part of the play while wearing Star Wars outfit.

A club can fullfill its reason for existance without being disturbed by someone on the dancefloor who is a little shorter than 2 meters  :)

 

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Syo Emerald wrote:

A club can fullfill its reason for existance without being disturbed by someone on the dancefloor who is a little shorter than 2 meters 
:)

 

I have no dispute with you, Syo.  There have been many short(er) avies who have made their way to the club where I DJ.  Everyone is welcome as long as they adhere to club rules (posted in the covenant) and applicable to all residents.

My point is, if someone buys land it is theirs to manage.  If they prefer to push away potential patrons/buyers, that is their choice.

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