Land Of The Giants

[Verena Vuckovic]

Yes....it's that perenial issue again. Why is the average avatar height in SL 7 foot 9 inches ?

Fact is, even at 5 foot 11, my avatar is one of the shorter female avatars in SL. To go any lower.....to actually be a realistic female height, is to end up being accused of 'ageplay'. How utterly ludicrous. I've even seen one site that automatically BANS anyone under 5 foot 6 inches !

To visit some female clubs in SL is to see hordes of monstrous stick insects...totally oblivious to the fact that real people don't have legs 2/3 the length of their body. And these people think they look sexy ! They barely look human.

It really is high time that the avatar 'Appearance' function in SL came with a height indicator. Change your height, and it will say ' YOU ARE NOW 8 Foot 2 INCHES....IS THIS OK ?'.

I suspsect the 'HELL...NO' responses to that might just get average height in SL down to a sane level.

 

 

 

[UncommonTruth]

Lol, my ava is 5'9", waaaay taller than I am, but like me, still shorter than almost everyone else. Once I figured out the proportions, it didn't look odd to me anymore. Thinking about it now, I'm probly gonna look like a giant again next time I loggin lol.

[Dresden Ceriano]

Um... what do you have against praying mantises?

...Dres

[Ceka Cianci]

why is the avg door 15 feet tall? and the avg brick 3'x2'?

why are most belts loose? aren't they sposed to hold our pants up?

the world may never know..but it's all bigger ..

not just avatars.. hehehehe

[Tini Jewell]

hahahaha - my world, YOUR way???  it's fantasy...why does anything we look like in SL have to do with reality? when i can teleport or fly in RL without the aid of any mechanical means as i can in SL, perhaps (and that's a big MAYBE) i would consider that my avatar is too tall.  however, i truly doubt that will happen any time soon.

why does it bother you what other people look like?  if you're happy with how you look and i'm happy with how i look, what's the problem?  you enjoy it your way and i enjoy it mine, k?  thanks  :matte-motes-sunglasses-1:

 

[Dana Hickman]

Part of the problem is that many are hung up about the numbers of their height, and still think they have some relation to real world measurements.. they do not. They are for game use only, and only as an internal reference. The true measurement of ones height is in relation, and proportion to the averages found in SL. Average default shoe size, average door height, etc.. If one sits on 10 couches from various makers and your knees do not make the edge of the cushion on 8 of them, your height could say 15 feet tall and it doesn't matter, you are a child-sized AV. The same goes in reverse.. if you bury your ankles in the floor on 8 of them, it could say 5'2" and it really means jack crap, you are an amazon. People need to forget the false numbers and use proportion as their guide.

Another part of the problem is that the shape adjustments allow people to be much shorter or much taller than you'll see in real life. This spreads the spectrum of the sizes you'll see and will highlight the differences much more so than in RL.

[MuffinUnsane1488303563]

I always tried to make most of my avatars around 5' 3''-6'. Its a nice range, but does often leave you having trouble. Since everything is made for taller avatars it can be funny. I once found a fence that was far taller than me, when it was supposed to be waist high.

Its a shame you were accused of ageplay. I find that even if the shape has breasts anything under a certain height is pointed out unfairily. Plus, smaller avatars mean smaller spaces which means less room being used!

Plus, all the Amazons make me feel as though I'm about to be stepped on.

[Venus Petrov]

Create your avie as you like and let others do the same.  Venus was 'average' height when I first rezzed.  I recently cropped 5" (SL inches) off of her and she is average again.  OK, maybe a bit shorter than average.

Your life.  Your imagination.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

When I first came to SL and created my avatar I was slightly taller than the average woman.  That was OK though because I am in RL too.  Over the years though avatars have grown and now, having not changed my shape, I am a shrimp compared to a lot of women. 

You can also see this in furniture.  Furniture that was made in the early days of SL is smaller than furniture made today.  This is due to the furniture makers making their products to fit today's avatars

I have a theory about why this has happened.  Men seem to have been the first to have gotten taller and larger over the years  I suspect that a lot of men come to SL and want to look imposing so move those sliders up to the max they can. Other men follow suit because they don't want to be perceived as short.   Then when the women dance with these men or use other standing animations they are floating a foot or two off the floor, so they adjusted their height too.

[Perrie Juran]

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.    Douglas Adams

 

Origin of Avatar Height:  http://forums-archive.secondlife.com/120/4d/7240/1.html#post54400

[Ariel Vuissent]

And we beat the dead horse again.

SL is for everyone to be as they want to be. If I want to be 8 feet tall with 6 foot long legs, I can. My choice. If I want to be 5'4" and of "normal" proportions, I can. Yes, there are places you cannot go if you are shorter than the SL average. Places where shorter people will be removed as child avis. Most people who wish to visit adult places have adjusted to this fact - they either create a taller version of their avatar, or avoid places that remove people based solely on height.

There are many vocal "activists" now promoting a move towards average or "realistically" sized avatars. Some of these people also promote scaling down SL as a whole, so that doorways, stairs, walls, etc. aren't five times larger than necessary. Some of these activists make those of us who are "unrealistically proportioned" feel like there's something wrong with us for being tall and thin. Sounding more and more like RL, isn't it?

 I don't consider myself wildly unrealistic - my legs are long, but not ridiculously so, my waist is thin but not outside reality, my hips are wide but not huge. My hands and feet remain small, so that I can still wear my favorite shoes and nails. I checked against a proportion guide, and everything was in the right place. This is MY fantasy world, too. Am I model-tall and model-thin in RL? No. That's why I am in SL - so I can be someone and something I can't in RL. I tried making an "average" female avi, and thought she looked like a dwarf. The proportions were realistic, and yet all wrong.

If you don't like seeing tall, thin women with long legs, ignore them, or wander elsewhere where there may be more people who meet your own vision of acceptable. Just remember that we all have our ideal Second Lives, and we all have a right to live them as we see fit. I don't have any problem with shorter avis, but the look just isn't for me.

Mind you, I wouldn't mind seeing more realistically proportioned architecture in RL. Most doors are enormous even for the 8 foot tall Tarzan males, and I fall down most stairs because they're too steep. And sure, if someone could make my shape, in the same exact proportions, at a height closer to 5'4" or 5'6", I'd probably go for it - if I could still wear my lovely, bottom-detail skirts and dresses and actually be able to see the bottom rather than having it sink into the floor. It's not just height of avis that's the issue - it's also content made for tall avi's. If you can revamp the whole system, go for it. Personally, I don't see it happening any time soon, myself. For now, I think I'll stick with my "unrealistic" avi.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

What??! My cartoon character is of "unrealistic" height? Oh, I'm so ashamed! I shall henceforth not venture onto the grid unless attired in sackcloth and ashes!

[Verena Vuckovic]

"Part of the problem is that many are hung up about the numbers of their height, and still think they have some relation to real world measurements.. they do not. They are for game use only, and only as an internal reference. The true measurement of ones height is in relation, and proportion to the averages found in SL."

 

This is nonsense. Things DO actually have specific sizes in SL There are no relative sizes.....a sim is specifically 256 meters by 256 meters. Rez a block and it will specifically say 1 meter. If your height says 8 fot 2 inches...it is because you ARE 8 foot 2 inches !

[Verena Vuckovic]

"SL is for everyone to be as they want to be. If I want to be 8 feet tall with 6 foot long legs, I can. My choice."

 

It's nonsense to suggest all those 8 foot women are 8 foot because they WANT to be. They are 8 foot because their friends are 8 foot......and their friends are 8 foot because the men are 9 foot, and also because avatar shops sell ludicrous sized     avatars in the first place.  And the avatar shops sell ludicrous sized avatars because they think that is the average size in SL.

If...on the other hand....a woman joining SL for the first time was asked ' Would you like your avatar to be 8 foot tall ?'.....99.999% would say NO.

 

 

[Verena Vuckovic]

"Yes, there are places you cannot go if you are shorter than the SL average. Places where shorter people will be removed as child avis. Most people who wish to visit adult places have adjusted to this fact - they either create a taller version of their avatar, or avoid places that remove people based solely on height."

 

And you don't find this totally uttery ludicrous ???

[Griffin Ceawlin]

So, it's all because of "peer pressure"??? Damn you, friends! Damn you, clever marketers! *shakes fist in air*

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Verena Vuckovic wrote:

It's nonsense to suggest all those 8 foot women are 8 foot because they WANT to be. They are 8 foot because their friends are 8 foot......and their friends are 8 foot because the men are 9 foot, and also because avatar shops sell ludicrous sized     avatars in the first place.  And the avatar shops sell ludicrous sized avatars because they think that is the average size in SL.

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When you really think about it, taller avatars are the average size in SL.

 

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Verena Vuckovic also wrote:

If...on the other hand....a woman joining SL for the first time was asked ' Would you like your avatar to be 8 foot tall ?'.....99.999% would say NO.

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...until they realize that's the average avatar height.  I'm not saying I think this should be... Penny makes an incredible argument for adhering to scale (link) and I tend to agree with most of what she says about it.  The trend is slowly turning toward shorter avatars which may or may not become the norm in the future.

But, it does little good to bitch at people for having tall avatars, just as you might feel bad about being attacked for being short, so will tall avatars feel bad about being attacked for being tall.  What good does it do to automatically put people on the defensive?  Do you really think that will lead anyone to try harder to understand your position or just shut you out completely?

A little education may go much further to serve your purpose than vitriolic rants will.

...Dres

[Ariel Vuissent]

No, I don't. If I don't want to be kicked out of a public place, I don't go inside drinking a beer, smoking a cigarette, not wearing shoes, etc. We adjust our lives a little every day to adhere to socially acceptable norms. In RL, I can't change my height (with the exception of putting on high heels, of course), but in SL, I can. In RL, it's also somewhat easier to tell a child from an adult - and even then, mistakes are made. In SL, owners adjust to the difficultly of determining age by banning based on height. Otherwise, they can be shut down, as well as banned from SL entirely.

I do think owners should judge underage avis based on more than just height. Of course you should be allowed to be 5'4" - the RL average for a woman - and wander around adult areas.The basis should be a combination of height, dress, face, mannerisms, etc. It's not for many places, because they don't want to be shut down and banned. Better safe than sorry, is the attitude. Is being banned because you're an average height fair? No. Boohoo.

I don't think it's ludicrous for a privately owned business to set rules and expect you to adhere to them. The consquence is that they may lose your business. They have to weigh that cost with the benefit of not being AR'd and potentially shut down for allowing child avis on their adult land. Some decide it's worth it, others decide not.

You can advocate for change all you want, and in fact, I encourage it. Change doesn't come about when you just sit on your hands and hope. In the meantime, adjust to the current situation while you work on change, or stay away from adult areas. That is entirely your choice.

ETA: In response to your other reply: I didn't say the women WANTED to be 8 feet tall. I said IF they want to be, they can. You're more than welcome to go up to random women in SL and explain to them how tall they really are, and don't they want to be average?

Many women in SL are tall because that's the shape they can find, or to be reasonably sized compared to most men. Others, like myself, remain tall because they can't achieve satsifying proportions at a shorter height, or they want to be able to wear/use content created for the average (tall) SL woman. It would be great if more creators made things - shapes, clothes, etc. - for more reasonably sized women. In this way, it's like RL - everything's made for tall, skinny women. So why don't you try your hand at creating for the average woman you prefer? That is, in my opinion, what will make the biggest difference - when content creators, even just a few at first, start creating really nice items, including shapes, for shorter women.

 

[Syo Emerald]

Don't worry Verena. I'm not a giant too and but I don't have problems with that.

1. Other avatars: I like to dance with one of my friends whos male avatar is far taler than me, but he is glad I'm smaller than he is (he isn't a big fan of those giant girls, who sometimes have the same size like him). A smaller size can make you look cute and more feminine.

I'm also often a furry. A lot of my furry avatars are even smaller than my human avatar, but that doesn't matter, cause most furry avatars aren't giants.

2. Furniture can be a problem, but not a big one. In my house I only have furniture that fits my normal size quite well, it doesn't look like placing a doll on a chair for real children

Only poseballs....I have to adjust a lot of them....my feet are always above the ground while dancing, but hey, I can live with it. Better having a nice little shape than a big one which is far away from being beautiful or sexy

[Verena Vuckovic]

"I don't think it's ludicrous for a privately owned business to set rules and expect you to adhere to them."

 

Yes it IS ludicrous for anyone to be banned from a sim, ARd or whatever.....merely for being a NORMAL human height !!

Stop making excuses for the insanity.

As for 'adjusting to socially acceptable norms'.....what kind of of a CRAZY 'norm' is it where people feel they have to be 8 foot tall to avoid being accused of ageplay ? No way is that sort of McCarthyist thinking socially acceptable.

 

[Rage Riptide]

I'm sure we can get this topic to a few more pages before another gets started again in a few weeks.

[Ariel Vuissent]

On SL, that is in fact the accepted norm. Particularly in adult sims. I repeat, adjust or leave. That choice is yours. Rant all you want here in the forums, it's not going to chnage until a group of people STOP ranting and actually do something. "I don't like it, grr, argh" doesn't go very far towards making change.

I stand by my statement. A private business owner may ban whomever they choose for whatever they choose. It's their land, their space, and their business. I'm not making excuses - I'm stating facts, as they are currently. If a business owner chooses to ban me because I have black hair, or size 10 hands, or I'm too tall, that's their choice. Sure, I'll be irritated, but they have the right to ban me from their space, just like I have the right to ban them from mine. I'd be pretty pissed if someone took that right away from me.

In any case, we'll have to agree to disagree, since I doubt either of our opinions will change. I've said what I have to say, voiced my opinions, and I'm done here. Thank you for your time.

[Anaiya Arnold]

You can advocate for change all you want, and in fact, I encourage it.

 

There are many vocal "activists" now promoting a move towards average or "realistically" sized avatars. Some of these people also promote scaling down SL as a whole, so that doorways, stairs, walls, etc. aren't five times larger than necessary. Some of these activists make those of us who are "unrealistically proportioned" feel like there's something wrong with us for being tall and thin. Sounding more and more like RL, isn't it?

Sure, you're encouraging them by trying to make them feel guilty for making you wonder if something is wrong with you (because for some reason although they could choose to not look at giants, you cannot choose to not read their comments about giants).

That choice is yours. Rant all you want here in the forums, it's not going to chnage until a group of people STOP ranting and actually do something. "I don't like it, grr, argh" doesn't go very far towards making change.

Yes, how could anyone mistake that for anything but encouraging?  It sure does not sound like an attempt to characterize people as a bunch of ineffectual whingers because they come to the forums to express their opinions (those ranters).

As for not making any change, at least the minority get to see they are not alone in their shortness which means they might spend less time wondering if something is wrong with them.  After all, unlike you, they are in the minority and are the ones getting booted from land, oh and accused of being age players by implication if not publicly accused and remonstrated with in front of other avatars.

[MuffinUnsane1488303563]

Personally, if the person owns the SIM they do can whatever they want. It sucks yes, but they pay for it. I won't raise a fuss if anyone boots me.

Its the same if someone doesn't like anthro avatars. If they polietly ask me to change I sure as hell will.

Same with 'ageplay'. If some accuses me of it I will explain myself. Depending on the situation I will change.

I was banned for not having a certain type of avatar once; even though I was there to buy one.

Its just a thing that can not be helped. I agree, it would be nice to see the 'average' height in SL go down. However, it won't likely happen.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

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Anaiya Arnold wrote:

Sure, you're encouraging them by trying to make them feel guilty for making you wonder if something is wrong with you (because for some reason although they could choose to not look at giants, you cannot choose to not read their comments about giants).

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Nobody here has attacked Verena for choosing what some might see as a diminutive avatar, one that some apparently even mistake for a child avatar.

Yet here Verena is... greatly exaggerating "average" avatar heights... comparing taller avatars to "monstrous stick insects" that "barely look human"... deciding that any avatar not sized to her approved "scale" is "ludicrous sized"... and that it's "nonsense" to suggest that anyone whose avatar isn't sized to her approved "scale" wants to be that size.

Who should feel guilty here? I dare say it's not Ariel.