Perrie Juran Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Venus Petrov Wrote: You would make it all about the penii. You mean that it isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Perrie Juran wrote: Venus Petrov Wrote: You would make it all about the penii. You mean that it isn't? Isn't it always? ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesica Dragovar Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: Venus Petrov Wrote: You would make it all about the penii. You mean that it isn't? Isn't it always? ...Dres pretty much, there's an actual theory about how technology isn't considered officially caught on until someone uses it for sex, I can't think of the name of the theory or look it up right now cause I can't be bothered to do it, but it's out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 SL and life in general are short enough as it is..people should live thiers and let others live thiers..we are not all that much different.. having a large or small or in purportion or out of purportion avatar is really nobody elses business to judge but the ones living that life.. if someone doesn't want a certain size on their land..then thats fine..but their power stops at those land lines of the sl they own or they are over stepping.. anyone thinking someone is ignorant or dumb for doing things their own way..well then ya kind of miss the point of being here..thats too bad and sort of sad.. those breaking some invisible rules that people try to push on you..keep doing what you do..*winks* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Bravo! Ceka... you're my hero! ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaiya Arnold Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I see your objections to personal insults certainly do not extend to your own behaviour. No surprises there then. Of more importance since your hypocrisy is really rather trivial, I see that you have yet to come up with any point by point refutation, or indeed any refutation whatsoever, so it looks like we can add liar to your list of interesting characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaiya Arnold Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Griffin Ceawlin wrote: Anaiya Arnold wrote: Griffin Ceawlin wrote: I would suggest that the OP, and others who are accused of ageplay merely for having shorter avatars, should direct their accusers to this page. A little education goes a long way. If the OPs avatar resembles her current inworld profile picture, I certainly would not be one to accuse her of ageplay, or even mistake hers for a child avatar. None of which explains why rather than bring out the emotional blackmail guilt trip, Ariel does not just choose to not read forum posts that make her wonder if something is wrong with her. "Emotional blackmail guilt trip"? I must have missed that. The one that you seem to be trying to say that Ariel is guilty of trying to foment, anyway. Hard to miss the OPs attempt, though... Most people who have shorter avatars that come to the forums and claim to have been accused of age play due to their height also don't lead off talking about taller avatars looking like "barely human... monstrous stick insects." Do they? So what? It did not cause me to wonder for even a second if there was something wrong with me? Did it make you wonder if there was something wrong with you? Just how insecure am I supposed to believe Ariel is? No, I didn't wonder if there was something wrong with me. I'm perfectly happy with my avatar as it is. I don't know about Ariel. She doesn't strike me as someone who's terribly insecure, but I also only know her from the posts of hers that I've read. The message that I'm getting, though, is that while everyone should be sympathetic to the OP and anyone else who has a shorter avatar, it's perfectly fine to try to make people who have taller avatars feel as though something is wrong with them. Is that about right? Instead of just venting some of her frustration, the OP has chosen to attack the choices that other people have made in the sizes of their avatars. Is there not a whiff of hypocrisy there?I'd say there is a good deal less hyposcrisy there than there would be if she'd added that she encourages people to have tall avatars. Do you disagree? Um... No? I guess not, but... Huh? You seem to have missed my point. OP comes to the Forum... "Boohoo! My shorter avatar is accused of being a child avatar. Discrimination! It's the fault of all those FrankenBarbies! Monstrous, hideous things that they are!!!" So... OPs avatar and others of comparable size are "normal" and everything else is... well... just "ludicrous"... and other people should "stop the insanity" and make their avatars smaller. Is OP not guilty of behaving in much the same way as those she rails about? P.S. I find your assertion that you hadn't attacked Dresden's reading and comprehension skills laughable. Did you actually read your comments to him? Well it's odd you'd miss something I requoted since you replied to the post I reposted it in. I do not believe that someone feeling under seige and lashing out at a trait shared by the majority is any cause for Ariel to wonder if something is wrong with herself, nor do I believe she is so insecure that she'd actually wonder if something was wrong with herself due to such a non-cause. So what other than guilt tripping is behind those comments? An attempt at censorship through guilt tripping seems a much more likely explanation to me than that Ariel is really so insecure that the OP's comments genuinely made her wonder if something was wrong with herself. I'm just not buying that and I think if you are honest with yourself, you don't buy it either. As to OP, she is obviously feeling under seige and attacked due to how she has been treated by people in what passes for SL's face-to-face interactions. It seems impossible to me that any healthy adult would be so lacking in empathy that they do not understand how someone in this situation feels and anyone not setting out be intentionally mean has not reason to not sympathize enough to " cut them a break" when interpreting their expressions of frustration and distress. If I had a message in addition to "it's really rather stupid and dishonest to discourage someone from posting something in every post you make in a thread while claiming you encourage such posting" it would be that anyone who has reasonable cause for feeling unfairly under seige should have their comments interpreted and judged accordingly, which is to say slack ought to be cut for them. It's what I'd want for you if you were expressing hurt and distress for such reasons no matter what the height of your avatar in some jumped up internet chat environment. Understanding and empathetic interpretations and responses to genuine expressions of hurt and distress are just one of the ordinary mundane concessions that reasonable adults of good intent make for other human beings. I did read my comments to Dresden and there's not a single assertion about Dresden's reading and comprehension skills in the intial comments he objected to on those grounds. Not a one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 So the answer to my question... "... while everyone should be sympathetic to the OP and anyone else who has a shorter avatar, it's perfectly fine to try to make people who have taller avatars feel as though something is wrong with them. Is that about right?"... is yes. Got it. Believe it or not, it is possible for adults to express frustration and distress without attacking... scapegoating... the Other. When someone does that, they tend to lose a lot of sympathy, including my own. You go ahead and "cut them some slack," if you like. Just don't expect that everyone else will go quietly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verena Vuckovic Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 "And Verena's not exagerating either." Indeed. I have a 5 foot 10 version of my avatar........and on visiting a 'female only' club the other night I was by a long way the shortest person there. I have a HUD device that can measure the height of other avatars, and many were over 7 foot and some getting on to 8 foot. Nearly all the ridiculously tall avatars have ludicrous leg lengths. They really look quite comical, with hips 2/3 of the way up their bodies. This has nothing to do with people WANTING to be like that........and everything to do with people feeling peer pressure to be the same lunatic height as others and not knowing how to adjust all the proportions. That's the real issue here. It's nothing to do with people 'chosing' to be 8 foot tall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verena Vuckovic Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 "Most people who have shorter avatars that come to the forums and claim to have been accused of age play due to their height also don't lead off talking about taller avatars looking like "barely human... monstrous stick insects." Do they? " What's wrong with stating it like it actually is ? Those avatars DO look barely human and like monstrous stick insects. They remind me of that thing that came out of the mother ship in Close Encounters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Verena Vuckovic wrote: "And Verena's not exagerating either." Indeed. I have a 5 foot 10 version of my avatar........and on visiting a 'female only' club the other night I was by a long way the shortest person there. I have a HUD device that can measure the height of other avatars, and many were over 7 foot and some getting on to 8 foot. Nearly all the ridiculously tall avatars have ludicrous leg lengths. They really look quite comical, with hips 2/3 of the way up their bodies. This has nothing to do with people WANTING to be like that........and everything to do with people feeling peer pressure to be the same lunatic height as others and not knowing how to adjust all the proportions. That's the real issue here. It's nothing to do with people 'chosing' to be 8 foot tall. this is based on an all womens club?do you think it was all women there trying to look like women? you can bet those people do want those huge hips more than they don't..take a walk into an urban sim sometime and do a hip statistic..you will see that a lot of babies do got back and want it because thats what the boys are looking for.. hehehehe it more or less sounds like you are just assuming what people want and don't want..even in those places..they may be doing it because they want to turn someone on or whatever..we don't come out of the box with those huge hips or long long legs.. if they couldn't figure the sliders out there are plenty of shape creators out there that have the shape they want..hehehe i'm not saying some of them don't know how to use the sliders..a lot of those shapes come like that from shape creators as well..i'm just saying..the only ones it's bugging are you guys worried about it hehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Dana Hickman wrote: Reread.. i said the NUMBERS are not related to real world measurements, as in they are not a 1 to 1 ratio. NOwhere did I say a flippin thing about anything not having specific sizes in SL. In fact, I even validated that by specifically saying they're an internal game reference..which means I can NOT have said they don't exist. So what's the real reason you called nonsense on 3 consecutive opinions on the subject? They are, after all, opinions.. and not yours to correct tyvm. No but they are solid references to each other. 1m in SL is 1m in SL. An apple that measures 0.75m on a side of its prim is not an opinion, its an error. The same for a human that measures 2.75m on a side. Its an error, a flaw, a freak. That you cannot make the human that so measures 2.75m have proper proportions only further emphasizes its freakish nature. People get onto such erroneous choices, and then by human nature feel a need to defend the wrongful choice they have made. But that doesn't make them right. Anatomy is a science of facts, not of opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I have a suggestion next time you see an avatar who is 'ridiculously' tall (to you). Send them an IM and tell them exactly what you think. Better, do it in local. Have you considered that some of those female avies may be operated by RL men? Perhaps they like long long legs. Who is to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verena Vuckovic Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 "Reread.. i said the NUMBERS are not related to real world measurements, as in they are not a 1 to 1 ratio. NOwhere did I say a flippin thing about anything not having specific sizes in SL. In fact, I even validated that by specifically saying they're an internal game reference..which means I can NOT have said they don't exist. So what's the real reason you called nonsense on 3 consecutive opinions on the subject? They are, after all, opinions.. and not yours to correct tyvm." This is self-contradictory nonsense. Things do have specific sizes in SL.....every content creator knows that.....so measurements in SL quite clearly do have a 1 to1 correlation to real world measurements, as is the case in any 'scale model'. You can't create a 1/200 scale model of Titanic and then claim that it's just a matter of 'personal opinion' and an 'internal model reference' if you make the Captain taller than the masts and the iceberg the size of a cocktail ice cube ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Verena Vuckovic wrote: "Most people who have shorter avatars that come to the forums and claim to have been accused of age play due to their height also don't lead off talking about taller avatars looking like "barely human... monstrous stick insects." Do they? " What's wrong with stating it like it actually is ? Those avatars DO look barely human and like monstrous stick insects. They remind me of that thing that came out of the mother ship in Close Encounters. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, just as everyone else is, including those people who think yours is a child avatar because of its height. Have a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verena Vuckovic Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 "People get onto such erroneous choices, and then by human nature feel a need to defend the wrongful choice they have made. But that doesn't make them right." I suspect choice had little to do with it. Here is what I think happens.... 1) Person joins SL 2) They go to a club and are surrounded by people several feet taller. 3) They don't want to appear the odd one out so they adjust the first thing that comes to mind....leg length. 4) They then look like a ridiculous stick insect......but who cares as so does everyone else. 5) All the stick insects tell each other how cool and sexy they now look.....a sort of mass denial of reality. In time they come to believe they made a 'choice'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verena Vuckovic Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 " if they couldn't figure the sliders out there are plenty of shape creators out there that have the shape they want..hehehe" I have to say....my experience of shape creators is that of wondering what planet most of them come from. I've seen shapes labelled as 'sexy female shape' that were anything but sexy or female. One wonders whether most of the female shape creators have ever actually SEEN a woman ! I have about 10 of these shapes that I've collected over the years, and without exception every single one of them is hideous. The shape creators have no idea of correct proportion or anatomy......and half of them should be had up under any relevant trade descriptions act for mis-selling a 'female shape'. And no....what a woman actually looks like is not a matter of 'personal opinion' when the anatomy is SO incorrect that in RL the person would require severe corrective surgery and woud not be standing around thinking how 'sexy' they look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Verena Vuckovic wrote: " if they couldn't figure the sliders out there are plenty of shape creators out there that have the shape they want..hehehe" I have to say....my experience of shape creators is that of wondering what planet most of them come from. I've seen shapes labelled as 'sexy female shape' that were anything but sexy or female. One wonders whether most of the female shape creators have ever actually SEEN a woman ! I have about 10 of these shapes that I've collected over the years, and without exception every single one of them is hideous. The shape creators have no idea of correct proportion or anatomy......and half of them should be had up under any relevant trade descriptions act for mis-selling a 'female shape'. And no....what a woman actually looks like is not a matter of 'personal opinion' when the anatomy is SO incorrect that in RL the person would require severe corrective surgery and woud not be standing around thinking how 'sexy' they look. the thing that i wonder is why it bothers you so much that you have a hud that measures everyone else lol you are making fun of people that probably just don't give a hoot about getting it right in a virtual fantasy world.. i mean we are not in max3d or maya community.. this is yahoo with a lot of cool stuff in it and a mesh that is a joke compared to something someone would use if they were seriously here to get it right.. a lot of people really are worried more about time than detail.. some are not as picky about themselves as others.. it's a good thing to know if thats what people are after and want the right purportions.. but it's kind of silly to be just picking randoms from anywhere and saying they are doing it wrong when it's not something that may be on the top of their priorety list..then to laugh about it or to degrade them like they are non thinkers..seriously? maybe they don't have time to think about all that stuff because time is short..because just maybe they have more thinking going on in the real world instead of trying to put real world thinking into their virtual like some others seem to have to do.. avatars are a small part of the virtual world..there is so much more to think about and do than what everyone else is thinking about and doing.. it must be nice to have all that free time.. this whole thing reminds me of those sayings..if you wanna look the thinest surround yourself with heavy people.. if you want to look like you care the most surround yourself with people that just don't give a damn.. i'm betting people just don't give a damn more than they do on being perfect in a fantasy world vs a program or community that will be set on that sort of thing.. you guys are acting like there is something to defend.. when they said your world your imagination ..they were not just talking about you guys lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim Gunsberg Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 This whole thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Undercroft Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I'd have some sympathy for the realistic height brigade (who in the main seem to have female avis) if their body shapes were typical of those to be seen on a RL high street. Odd how so few seem to have size 18 shaped avis although I'm sure a fair proportion of their controllers will be that size in RL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Venus Petrov wrote: I have a suggestion next time you see an avatar who is 'ridiculously' tall (to you). Send them an IM and tell them exactly what you think. Better, do it in local. Have you considered that some of those female avies may be operated by RL men? Perhaps they like long long legs. Who is to say? i swear it doesn't take much for me to be inspired to search youtube for the craziest videos hehehehehe here is what happened to the last person that tried that at one of those clubs hehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leliel Mirihi Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Verena Vuckovic wrote: You can't create a 1/200 scale model of Titanic and then claim that it's just a matter of 'personal opinion' and an 'internal model reference' if you make the Captain taller than the masts and the iceberg the size of a cocktail ice cube ! Yet people do exactly that every day in sl. Have you ever tried mixing furniture from different stores? You'll be too big for some and too small for others. That's because apparently most creators in sl have no idea what the word scale means, they probably think it's just an alternate spelling of size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaiya Arnold Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Griffin Ceawlin wrote: So the answer to my question... "... while everyone should be sympathetic to the OP and anyone else who has a shorter avatar, it's perfectly fine to try to make people who have taller avatars feel as though something is wrong with them. Is that about right?"... is yes. Got it. Believe it or not, it is possible for adults to express frustration and distress without attacking... scapegoating... the Other. When someone does that, they tend to lose a lot of sympathy, including my own. You go ahead and "cut them some slack," if you like. Just don't expect that everyone else will go quietly. No ithat's not the answer to that question. Try reading it again. Is there some reason i should not make light of your reading and comprehension skills while I am here since if they are not substandard then you are deliberately misconstruing my words in order to mischaracterize my argument? You would not need to do that if you honestly beleived what I have to say is so absurd as to be easy to refute without having to first recast it as something entirely else. My point had nothing to do with whether or not Ariel's meanness was warranted but with whether or not this is consistent with encouraging such expression as the OP's. It's not no matter how many blameless strawmen you try to drag in here to torture before my eyes. None the less, since it seems you accept I was right enough in my initial point that you do not even want to try to refute it, I guess I'll have to try to save that poor strawman from your clutches. I'm well aware that adult humans can manifest idealized responses to all kinds of adversity, just as I am aware that adult humans can win Olympic medals and climb Mt Everest. What you are describing are not the most common reactions of adult humans to feeling victimized and under seige from a group that vastly outnumbers their own, but rather ideal reactions. Adult humans who consistently manifest ideal reactions to adversity in every case are probably rarer than adult humans who win Olympic medals and climb Mt Everest on the same day. Certainly the number of adults who consistently manifest ideal reactions to adversity in all cases is much less than the number who do not deserve to be kicked when they are down in my opinion. There's a difference between being unsympathetic and kicking a person when they are down. Now you might be quite happy to have a philosophy that is in essence "if humans under stress react like typical humans, I will have less sympathy for them", but no matter how well advised that is, it still does not make kicking someone while they are down consistent with claims to be encouraging them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonna Korhonen Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Verena Vuckovic wrote: hordes of monstrous stick insects... /me giggles To each his own as the saying goes but I hear ya. I am real height and proud and yes there is a group. My leg length is 2! And I'm about 5'8" overall in SL. Some argue that being an amazon helps with clothing sizing but whatever.. In my years in SL I've come to one basic conclusion. Be happy with yourself and don't worry about the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 The second I rezzed my first prim and realised it was 0.5 by 0.5 meters I realised my avatar was WAY too tall and I changed it. Now she is about 6ft, same as I am in RL, yet I'm one of the shorter avatars out there. But I like it that way. I build my entire sim in a close to realistic scale and it is great to see giants come visit the sim and then see them shrink the more often they visit. But everyone can be the size they want, I don't care. As long as they know they are taller then average. One of the main reasons I like realism in avatars is that I have recently stood next to a 1:1 scale model of a zeppelin, something I've always wanted to see in RL. I have stood underneath it, in awe of its size. And yes, as someone aiming for realism I have made my avatar look more like a nearly 40 year old woman who doesn't like being in the sun, who doesn't wear makeup, doesn't sport or exercise and doesn't sleep very well. Anyway, I have a free Realistic Scale kit that helps people make their avatar more realistic IF that is what they want. Also we hand out one of the few avatar measuring devices that is actually pretty accurate. You can find it at our teleport area, slurl below in my signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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