Problems with Linden Lab's plans to attract new users.

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

13 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I'm going to play the adult here and say that it doesn't matter who started it and tbh I stopped reading at "fanboys and Girls".  This is no better than other things I am reading.

I wonder when the inevitable labelling becomes PBRbros, or pBros, at which point I would expect the opposing team would then be called LuddBros, and the fence sitters FenceBros.  

What about the women? Are they "bros" too?

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Gabriele Graves said:

"They started it" hasn't been valid excuse for anything by anyone except children who don't know any better.

Anyone who starts their post that way with name calling thrown in for good measure in the very first sentence is unlikely to have any merit in their post to convey in my opinion.

"They started it" has merit from the perspective that the original OP set the tone for the responses. 

[Istelathis]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

What about the women? Are they "bros" too?

That appears to be the case when it comes to the brah terminology.  Like Berniebro, AiBro, and others.  

[Love Zhaoying]

It's all just trolling at this point, the last page or 2 from what I can see.

We know the issues.

We know the arguments.

Some people just like saying extreme things to get a reaction.

 

[Gabriele Graves]

.

Edited July 23 by Gabriele Graves
Removed derail

[Rowan Amore]

53 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I'll admit I don't know enough to know who is right or wrong about the history of PBR.  I don't much care and I don't see why that matters.

If people are making false statements on either side of the fence though, then it needs to stop.

I know I haven't been making false statements in this or been unsympathetic to anyone having problems.  I certainly haven't said anything like what you have posted Zalificent and yet have been lumped in with "Super Elitists" anyway.

If PBR is so bad (which it isn't) then people don't need to make up anything to make it seem worse than it is, conversely if PBR is so perfect (which it isn't) then nobody needs to make up any falsehoods to make it seem better than it is.

I honestly couldn't care less whether SL has PBR or not but here we are, with it.  I'm certainly no elite gamer (only game I ever played was Pokemon).  What I am is a long time SL user.  Every purchase I've made over the years in regard to my computer has been with SL in mind.  I started with integrated graphics and muddled through at below 10 fps most of the time, for 4 years.  I'm still here.  I've upgraded my laptop.  I've saved and purchased as much as I could.  

I actually had more trouble and a hotter laptop before PBR when the graphics handling was updated.  I was getting ridiculously high fps and my fans would be on high most of the time.  Were these updates in anticipation of PBR?  I learned then, by reading info (imagine that) that said to limit fps which I did.  Saw everything just fine and my laptop fans/heat went back to normal.  

All this to say...you couldn't run SL with sub-par hardware 15 years ago and you still can't.  The only difference is the sub-par bar has moved.

 

 

 

[Gabriele Graves]

.

Edited July 23 by Gabriele Graves
Removed derail

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

"They started it" has merit from the perspective that the original OP set the tone for the responses. 

If you really believe that then there is nothing more to say about this from my perspective.

Plus, "they started it" in one thread, isn't any excuse to complain about it "off-topic" in some other thread. 

"Oh, someone created a thread I disagree with - now I have free reign to complain all I want, in any thread, because they started it!"

[Gabriele Graves]

.

Edited July 23 by Gabriele Graves
Removed derail

[Arielle Popstar]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It's all just trolling at this point, the last page or 2 from what I can see.

We know the issues.

We know the arguments.

Some people just like saying extreme things to get a reaction.

 

New poster come to the thread to share their opinion/perspective without seeming to have read previous responses to the arguments they bring. In any case your statement "It's all just trolling at this point, the last page or 2 from what I can see. begs the question why you are the top poster in the thread.

Edited July 22 by Arielle Popstar

[Luna Bliss]

It's early Monday morning, I log into the forum, and the same damm things are being discussed over and over. Can't the mods close threads for 'excessive repetition' or something?

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

New poster come to the thread to share their opinion/perspective without seeming to have read previous responses to the arguments they bring. In any case your statement "It's all just trolling at this point, the last page or 2 from what I can see. begs the question why you are the top poster in the thread.

I have barely posted - at all (compared to my usual posting volume/rate) - in the past week, as I have been on a work-related trip and not been in the Forums much.

I am passionate about all topics. That's why I post a lot.

If you are so passionate about this topic, why aren't YOU the top poster in this thread?

 

Edited July 22 by Love Zhaoying

[discussionbot]

On 7/14/2024 at 5:04 PM, Persephone Emerald said:

Was introducing a mobile viewer and PBR at the same time a mistake, with each experience at cross-purposes to each other?

Can the mobile viewer render PBR? If not, I’ll just see snow everywhere when everyone uses Skye’s and others new PBR landscaping that doesn’t have fallback textures.

So yes, it was a mistake I guess?

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I have barely posted - at all (compared to my usual posting volume/rate) - in the past week, as I have been on a work-related trip and not been in the Forums much.

I am passionate about all topics. That's why I post a lot.

If you are so passionate about this topic, why aren't YOU the top poster in this thread?

 

Because I tend to stay on topic and not just throw out random thoughts and I am not the only or best poster in the thread to rebut some arguments brought up by the Pro PBR contingent

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, discussionbot said:

Can the mobile viewer render PBR? If not, I’ll just see snow everywhere when everyone uses Skye’s and others new PBR landscaping that doesn’t have fallback textures.

So yes, it was a mistake I guess?

I'm thinking the delay of releasing the Mobile viewer has to do with the PBR rendering.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

44 minutes ago, Tjay Wicken said:

Excuse me, I am not a spammer.

You deliberately, and willingly made a blatantly false statement (realistically, one of several ), and when called on it, doubled down, when called on it again you played the "How dare you disagree with me, I'm going to my room to sulk" card.

I feel my opinion of your posts is valid.

 

47 minutes ago, Tjay Wicken said:

You continue to call people for elitist and use degrading language

Compared to calling people "insensitive clods", "luddites", "lazy", "stupid", "cheap", "lacking artistic sensibilities", "obviously not contributing to the SL economy", "free-loaders", claiming that "you're holding me back", for example?

Sounds Elitist and degrading to me, and that's the PBR Loving Futureness Cultists.

 

Even your posts went down that path, with a load of elitist nonsense about how PBR allows "artistes" to determine how their so-called "art" WILL be seen by all those un-artistic luddite plebs.

 

Utterly laughable.

[Love Zhaoying]

24 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's early Monday morning, I log into the forum, and the same damm things are being discussed over and over. Can't the mods close threads for 'excessive repetition' or something?

It will be interesting if they choose to ever do that for PBR, "systems running hot", performance, etc.

It makes sense mods close threads for "controversial" ("forbidden") topics, or when someone opens a new thread on the same topic after their previous thread was closed by mods, though.

[Gabriele Graves]

.

Edited July 23 by Gabriele Graves
Removed derail

[Paul Hexem]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Are people actually saying those all things still? The only one that looks familiar is "PBR has been around for years". Great cherry picking for the sake of argument, though. Always a good time.

If Zal isn't misrepresenting stuff to argue against it, is it even a Zal post?

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Paul Hexem said:

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Are people actually saying those all things still? The only one that looks familiar is "PBR has been around for years". Great cherry picking for the sake of argument, though. Always a good time.

If Zal isn't misrepresenting stuff to argue against it, is it even a Zal post?

I stopped saying her posts were "hyperbole" (even though almost every quote is some type of exaggeration), because it hurt her feelings.  "Misrepresentation" sounds like a nice way to put it.

[Tjay Wicken]

32 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

You deliberately, and willingly made a blatantly false statement (realistically, one of several ), and when called on it, doubled down, when called on it again you played the "How dare you disagree with me, I'm going to my room to sulk" card.

I feel my opinion of your posts is valid.

 

Compared to calling people "insensitive clods", "luddites", "lazy", "stupid", "cheap", "lacking artistic sensibilities", "obviously not contributing to the SL economy", "free-loaders", claiming that "you're holding me back", for example?

Sounds Elitist and degrading to me, and that's the PBR Loving Futureness Cultists.

 

Even your posts went down that path, with a load of elitist nonsense about how PBR allows "artistes" to determine how their so-called "art" WILL be seen by all those un-artistic luddite plebs.

 

Utterly laughable.

I honestly don't get why you are so upset or what your problem really is.

I want to make it clear that I have never - and will never for that matter - use those words. If you feel I have been replying to you in any derogatory capacity, then I'd very much like you to point out where, and when.

Should I explicitly have stated that it wasn't used in games at the time of its initial conception? Yes absolutely, and that's on me.

We can probably have a discussion from now and until the end of days of what art is, but what art is, is neither for me, nor you to define - that's for the artist expressing themselves to define. We can then either agree with it or not.

 

You cannot possibly deny the fact that the PBR implementation has given creators a wide range of new possibilities of defining the look and feel of their textures, and with the upcoming option to import scenes, the creators will have even more capability of defining their creations.  

 

Edited July 22 by Tjay Wicken

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Tjay Wicken said:

You cannot possibly deny the fact that the PBR implementation has given creators a wide range of new possibilities of defining the look and feel of their textures

Actually, II can.

PBR is all about "constraining" possibilities.

No! You can't set a custom specular colour, that black pair of leggings you bought in RL, with the metallic red specular highlights, CANNOT be made in PBR because Reasons.

No! You cannot use that fantastical "holo-effect" rainbow hued specular colour map to make soap bubbles, or fantastical materials, because PBR sets the specular colour for you, the6 way it thinks reality works, which isn't always real..

 

This will get worse when PBR lighting is introduced, as there are no projector lights in the GLTF 2.0 spec used by LL.

 

5 minutes ago, Tjay Wicken said:

and with the upcoming option to import scenes, the creators will have even more capability of defining their creations

Defining them badly, scene import DOES allow some technical advances, but...

The most valuable ones could have been put in WITHOUT PBR or scene imports, and the downsides outweigh the advantages.

Worst of all, there's that "artistes know better and should control how plebs see things" nonsense again, which even if it wa actually possible, would be elitist claptrap.

Let's be 100 % clear here.

Self proclaimed "artistes" using Substance Abuse to make PBR have exactly ZERO control over how it's seen by others, ZERO control over what draw distance they use, ZERO control over what EEP they use, ZERO control over what LOD factor they use. ZERO control, and people like you repeatedly claiming otherwise, won't change that one jot.

 

11 minutes ago, Tjay Wicken said:

I honestly don't get why you are so upset or what your problem really is.

I was slightly upset, since you ask,  by your use of "IMHO" as in my experience, people who use that are 1) NEVER humble, and 2) invariably use that expression to try and add weight to opinions that are not worth a damn.

 

[Extrude Ragu]

5 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

with the metallic red specular highlights,

Immediately your point falls apart, because metallic effects pre-PBR were not possible at all, given that the 'environment' value did not modulate reflected environment at all but simply a a fake low res sphere giving everything that vaseline look.

[Love Zhaoying]

55 minutes ago, xXSuicidalIdolXx Candycane said:

meanwhile Me with the popcorn watching the comments pop off this morning 😂💀 hey yoooo heres the thing. why dont we stop the popping off? lets just call it what it is. if one person has an issue with one another address it like. personally I have hidden 12 residents from this forum because they stick their nose into every flippin thread and have to say something.

19 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I'm simply devastated.  🙄   

Anyway, I assume I'm one of the 12 blocked but still, Where exactly did I 'pop off' at anyone in this thread?

its uncalled for. no need to pop off just flat say the problem to the resident and let them know they are an issue. end of story. on the other hand... it is kinda fun watching a bunch of grown adults pop off at one another because one say they are right and the other has feelings of a broken glass window about to break at a moments touch. either way yall do you. just popping is not really doing a damm thing besides get threads shut down and repeat. 🤷‍♂️

I think they are telling OTHER people to "come out and say it" to us? 

Hard to tell, I'm really bad at "wall of text".

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Extrude Ragu said:

15 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

with the metallic red specular highlights,

Immediately your point falls apart, because metallic effects pre-PBR were not possible at all, given that the 'environment' value did not modulate reflected environment at all but simply a a fake low res sphere giving everything that vaseline look.

TIL!!