Non-mesh avatars keep out

[Starberry Passion]

5 minutes ago, Arwyn Quandry said:

Gonna be real, whenever I hear about a new female mesh body being put out these days, I sort of sigh because there's so, so many of them and virtually none get any real push, even from larger designers. The market is saturated and it's going to take a change in technology for anything to differentiate itself at this point.

That's true. But then again, that means SEcond Life still has life and the more things being created means it is showing more signs of life.

 

Just now, Cristiano Midnight said:

And yet they have made a lot of the same mistakes, including the media based hud. So they didn't really learn much. Also, they are still quite precious with their SDKs. So while it may not literally be TMP, it is some of the same people.

I don't think so, if it made the same mistakes it wouldn't be one of them most popular bodies.

[Cristiano Midnight]

8 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said:

I'm not that big a fan.   The butt looks like i'm trying to smuggle a couple of hams out of the A&P.

I felt that way about the Jake body. It looks like you are smuggling cantaloupe in the calves.

[Starberry Passion]

Just now, Cristiano Midnight said:

I felt that way about the Jake body. It looks like you are smuggling cantaloupe in the calves.

Never heard the term "Thicc thighs save lives?" That goes for male thighs as well. 😂

[Cristiano Midnight]

1 minute ago, Starberry Passion said:

Never heard the term "Thicc thighs save lives?" That goes for male thighs as well. 😂

It is not the thighs though. It is the weird calves lol.

[Starberry Passion]

1 minute ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

It is not the thighs though. It is the weird calves lol.

thicc calves for running someone down, that can save lives as well. Got that bunny power, can kick the crap out of someone, especially when you're trying to protect your loved ones. 

Edited July 7 by Starberry Passion

[steeljane42]

19 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

Funnily enough, even though they protest that they are not, TMP and Legacy are from the same people. TMP disappeared under shady circumstances, and Legacy magically appeared, and their hud managed to have any saved styles in them from TMP.  Legacy is the nicest looking male body IMO, but I hate that it relies on an external server for some functionality. We are screwed if they pull a TMP again. Media based huds are *****.

Media based HUDs are the worst, but unless for some reason you are using appliers still, then you don't need this portion of the HUD for anything ever since 1.5 update. Bom you can enable via chat commands, and for the nails they have finally added appliers kit, so there's a number of 3rd party ones that people can apply without this part of the HUD.

So as long as you have a working copy/backup of the body somewhere in case SL being SL time when it can bork the scripts, you should be fine even if they turn off their servers. Two other tabs of the HUD work without media enabled.

10 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

I don't think so, if it made the same mistakes it wouldn't be one of them most popular bodies.

It was just released in the perfect moment. Maitreya was already getting old, Freya was abandoned (almost) by its creator, Slink never was truly popular. And then comes a shiny new body that is a lot better looking, can do a wide range of shapes and basically has no alternative.

Would it be released today... it would likely would repeat the story of their recent Bombshell body or Belleza GenX ones, which all are absolutely and completel failures from the commercial standpoint. Reborn gets roughly same amount of new users in 2 week than each of GenX bodies gotten within 1.5 years, Bombshell has 90 new users seen within last 90 days, with the grand total of 350.

And it's mostly the same people, and the TMP wasn't their first brand either. It's at least their 4th one. They did pull that "new team and we are not the same" stunt before. I have been a very nice story by someone who has been around longer than I am, with pictures and all. So the Meshbody is technically their 5th incarnation.

Edited July 7 by steeljane42

[Cristiano Midnight]

26 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I'll leave the first paragraph aside, though this is the severalth time I have seen it here, and I find it objectionable.

The second though, I guess my experience must be extremely different from all the people who have this attitude toward women-only spaces in SL, because I feel very strongly that women-only spaces should be in place and enforced. Half or all or whatever of the lesbians in SL may be RL men, I dunno and honestly do not care. However, in my time in SL I have been harassed many, many times, and NEVER has it happened in a female-only space, or even by a female-presenting avatar.

When I was in SL I tried to stay in female-only spaces as much as possible, and left this last time because of more constant harassment by men than I ever experienced in the past. The worst in mixed-gender places, and not sex places or anything like that. And one place that I had gone for years where men have never been restricted but were rare now has at least 50% men, one of whom started harassing me there and continued long after I left, and as usual got more angry as I kept telling him to leave me alone.

Finally, this is not in response to you, but IRL while gay clubs may welcome women (IMO esp the really made up fem ones, esp so if they are pretty), lesbian bars in general do NOT welcome men even though they are not banned. We now have more lesbian bars than we did a couple years ago, but issues constantly arise with men in lesbian spaces. There may very well be lesbian bars that do welcome men these days, but that is not my experience. And I wonder how many of the people questioning the need for women-only spaces have ever actually even *been* in a lesbian bar.

The problem is that these female only spaces make a blanket ban on male avatars, even if the men are gay, but will let them in if they change their avi to look like a woman. YMMV, i think that is absurd and arbitrary. It is the same person. Also, a lot of the men running around in female avis are not the ones who would harass a woman even as a male.

I have been to lesbian bars before as a very close friend of mine is a lesbian, and yeah, not the most welcoming of environments for any men. Lesbians seem to like men far less than gay men like women. I was respectful and had fun with my friend, but it still was not pleasant. I don't begrudge anyone places they feel safe, and the encroachment of straight people into queer only safe spaces is an issue, but I think gay people could do more to be inclusive with each other from both sides.

In SL, I don't see this as much of an issue as we have tools to block and mute people if they are bothering you. You don't have that option in RL.

[Rowan Amore]

8 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I love the better shoulders. Unfortunately I found almost no clothes that I liked that fit Lara X. Maybe that will change over time, but I don't really go for the stuff that almost all the stores have these days. So I just got a bunch of new outfits for Lara Legacy and stuck with that, weird shoulders and all.

I've been dying to get a few of the outfits from Mimikri.  These pants!  So I'll wear the LaraX for specific outfits only.

 

[Cristiano Midnight]

2 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

Media based HUDs are the worst, but unless for some reason you are using appliers still, then you don't need this portion of the HUD for anything ever since 1.5 update. Bom you can enable via chat commands, and for the nails they have finally added appliers kit, so there's a number of 3rd party ones that people can apply without this part of the HUD.

So as long as you have a working copy/backup of the body somewhere in case SL being SL time when it can bork the scripts, you should be fine even if they turn off their servers. Two other tabs of the HUD work without media enabled.

Stupidly, they did not add a chat command to reset the alpha slices, which is the thing I need the hud for half the time. Does that part work without media? The Legacy body has the slowest alpha updates I have seen when remove a piece of clothing with autohide.

[CaerolleClaudel]

1 hour ago, stlshayne said:

I don't want to get into a whole thing, but just want to mention - at least IRL there is legitimate discourse in the community about straight people 'taking over' queer spaces. Groups of straight friends going to gay bars because they like the music. Women having their bachelourette parties at gay bars so they won't get hit on and can look at hot guys. I've heard of instances of a guy getting offended that a guy approached him at a gay bar. Some lgbt people worry that suddenly, these spaces where it's suppossed to be a safe queer space are getting taken from them. 

Now does this all transfer over to SL? I don't know I'd go that far. I don't know, though. 

I am trying to stay away from RL to avoid getting the thread in risk, but yeah, I almost commented on the bachelorette party thing myself. A sadly long-dead gay bar where I live used to have Femme Fridays the first Friday of the month, and I went there a lot. I can't speak for typical nights, but I almost never went there and not seen a bunch of drunk young women having their party in the middle of the club (there were lots of booths and tables and then a dance floor up by the stage). The club had nightly drag shows, including on Femme Fridays, and they esp loved those. Overall, they were loud and disruptive and IMO entitled. I am probably oversensitive to this, but I usually got the impression that they viewed the whole thing as entertainment, including seeing the queer people (mostly women) interacting with each other. Anyhow, I will shut up about RL, though I feel the same about having for example male avis at lesbian spaces in SL.

[Starberry Passion]

2 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

Media based HUDs are the worst, but unless for some reason you are using appliers still, then you don't need this portion of the HUD for anything ever since 1.5 update. Bom you can enable via chat commands, and for the nails they have finally added appliers kit, so there's a number of 3rd party ones that people can apply without this part of the HUD.

So as long as you have a working copy/backup of the body somewhere in case SL being SL time when it can bork the scripts, you should be fine even if they turn off their servers. Two other tabs of the HUD work without media enabled.

It was just released in the perfect moment. Maitreya was already getting old, Freya was abandoned (almost) by its creator, Slink never was truly popular. And then comes a shiny new body that is a lot better looking, can do a wide range of shapes and basically has no alternative.

Would it be released today... it would likely would repeat the story of their recent Bombshell body or Belleza GenX ones, which all are absolutely and completel failures from the commercial standpoint. Reborn gets roughly same amount of new users in 2 week than each of GenX bodies gotten within 1.5 years, Bombshell has 90 new users seen within last 90 days, with the grand total of 350.

And it's mostly the same people, and the TMP wasn't their first brand either. It's at least their 4th one. They did pull that "new team and we are not the same" stunt before. I have been a very nice story by someone who has been around longer than I am, with pictures and all. So the Meshbody is technically their 5th incarnation.

I don't think Bombshell is a failure. It's not taking off fast but it is gaining traction, slowly. More creators and bloggers have been dawning it on, from time to time, and liking it as much as they have with Reborn Waifu.

The reason why it is not more popular is because the demand for it is not up there, by the public. Creators create for public, and rarely for themselves, due to wanting that money.

[Katherine Heartsong]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I've been dying to get a few of the outfits from Mimikri.  These pants!  So I'll wear the LaraX for specific outfits only.

 

Mimikri is one of my favourite spots and they are finally starting to get X stuff out. Yay!!!!!!

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Katherine Heartsong said:

Mimikri is one of my favourite spots and they are finally starting to get X stuff out. Yay!!!!!!

I've sent her a note asking for Reborn but nope.  That store is the only reason that I even bothered dragging out LaraX.  Long time fan since before mesh bodies.

[Clem Marques]

17 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

26 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said:

I'm not that big a fan.   The butt looks like i'm trying to smuggle a couple of hams out of the A&P.

I felt that way about the Jake body. It looks like you are smuggling cantaloupe in the calves.

The wrists are strangely thick in the Jake body as well. That's a persistent problem I've noticed regardless of the shape. 

Edited July 7 by Clem Marques

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Jake's also quite blessed in the butt. I never realized how much until I started wearing male clothes with Maitreya. I had to move her to Gianni and Legacy sizes because whew, dat Jake booty works overtime. Pants stick straight out behind me and I find I have to dial Lara's butt down to nothing to tame it. 😂

[steeljane42]

13 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

Stupidly, they did not add a chat command to reset the alpha slices, which is the thing I need the hud for half the time. Does that part work without media? The Legacy body has the slowest alpha updates I have seen when remove a piece of clothing with autohide.

Yeah, it does work without media, media is only needed for the "styles" part of it. I have media disabled permanently pretty much, except the times I had to turn it on to enable BoM for Legacy in the past.

And pre 1.5 (or was it 1.4?) update auto-alpha was actually faster on their bodies, much faster, but it used to fail a lot more often, too. So one of those updates made it more robust (still fails sometimes, however, like any other auto-alpha), but a lot slower.

12 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

I don't think Bombshell is a failure. It's not taking off fast but it is gaining traction, slowly. More creators and bloggers have been dawning it on, from time to time, and liking it as much as they have with Reborn Waifu.

The reason why it is not more popular is because the demand for it is not up there, by the public. Creators create for public, and rarely for themselves, due to wanting that money.

It's only slowing down stats wise so far. And I've been watching those body trending stats for years pretty much (professional habit), and there were not a single body launched that would take off later through its life cycle. Either it does it right away, or it stays irrelevant forever. See GenX again. Launch week and a week after had 300 detected users (each), 3 months after they had 350 or so. Now 1.5 years they have ~650, and something like 15 daily ones seen by BB. Bombshell is currently following exactly the same trend, with 250 seen users in its launch week with 50% off promo window, and only 100 new ones for the following 3.5 months.

It's not a bad body, although I find boobs shape rather odd for my tastes, but it's just redundant. Reborn with Waifus won this segment of the market. Sure, some creators still make/going to make for it, like some make for GenX or even Khara, but that's about it.

Edited July 7 by steeljane42

[CaerolleClaudel]

35 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

You are lucky, I get harassed by Older men and female avatars, especially ones that call themselves "Futa" I don't really mind it that much, because I find it a compliment and just happy that I am attractive to someone but I understand what you are talking about.

I have no idea what 'futa' is (I saw it earlier in the thread, and have no interest in looking it up, I doubt I would like the answer), but across 17 years of being in and out of SL, that has been my experience. Men and furries. Of course, I fully understand that other people's experience may be very different for a lot of reasons, such as differences in the places we go. I just know what feels safe for me, and what I avoid.

I guess this has nothing to do with mesh or non-mesh, though, other than it was brought up in the context of this thread. Personally, I do not GAF what other people look like, and though I don't thing I ever see even system heads, much less bodies, I see quite a lot of avis that are full mesh that I find absolutely hideous. Some of them belong to really nice, friendly people, though, just like avis I find gorgeous, so I don't let appearance dictate whether I will interact with someone or not. Then again, I am not having sex or even play with anyone in SL anymore, because appearance *would* be important for me in those situations.

[stlshayne]

10 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Jake's also quite blessed in the butt. I never realized how much until I started wearing male clothes with Maitreya. I had to move her to Gianni and Legacy sizes because whew, dat Jake booty works overtime. Pants stick straight out behind me and I find I have to dial Lara's butt down to nothing to tame it. 😂

I remember switching from Signature to Jake. Signature has no butt at all, so you have to have the booty slider all the way up.... so when I put on my Jake body, before I edited the shape - I would enter a room and my butt would still be making its way through the doorway a minute later. 

Edited July 7 by stlshayne

[Starberry Passion]

4 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I have no idea what 'futa' is (I saw it earlier in the thread, and have no interest in looking it up, I doubt I would like the answer), but across 17 years of being in and out of SL, that has been my experience. Men and furries. Of course, I fully understand that other people's experience may be very different for a lot of reasons, such as differences in the places we go. I just know what feels safe for me, and what I avoid.

I guess this has nothing to do with mesh or non-mesh, though, other than it was brought up in the context of this thread. Personally, I do not GAF what other people look like, and though I don't thing I ever see even system heads, much less bodies, I see quite a lot of avis that are full mesh that I find absolutely hideous. Some of them belong to really nice, friendly people, though, just like avis I find gorgeous, so I don't let appearance dictate whether I will interact with someone or not. Then again, I am not having sex or even play with anyone in SL anymore, because appearance *would* be important for me in those situations.

Futanari is an anime term that is popular to use in second life, usually in an lgtbq sim or a "shemale" or "femboy" sim It means Hermaphrodite.

[CaerolleClaudel]

33 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

I didn't say it wasn't real sex (well, a form of sexual experience), I was talking about the visuals - they are based on an illusion. People do not look like their avatars exactly, sometimes quite dramatically different. It is a fantasy. Phone sex and Facetime sex are still not the same as physical sex, though Facetime comes a bit closer. Sex does not just happen in the brain, there are physical responses as well.

🤷🏻‍♀️

I do sort of agree with some of what you are saying but I feel our conceptions of even those things are too different for me to be able to explain. But yeah, I do agree that physical, RL sex is different from the exact experience of cyber if we stop at that point and ignore everything else.

Also, this thread is about mesh bodies being required for certain sims, not about how real sexual experiences in SL are and I don't want to be the person that gets it closed, esp since I am basically an interloper here.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

46 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said:

I'm not that big a fan.   The butt looks like i'm trying to smuggle a couple of hams out of the A&P.

I just tried the reborn body in sl again. I rememeber trying it when it first came out for an alt and since then forgot about all that birthday cake in the back. I didn't end up buying it for that reason because im more into clothing in sl than pixel sex.

[CaerolleClaudel]

24 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

The problem is that these female only spaces make a blanket ban on male avatars, even if the men are gay, but will let them in if they change their avi to look like a woman. YMMV, i think that is absurd and arbitrary. It is the same person. Also, a lot of the men running around in female avis are not the ones who would harass a woman even as a male.

I have been to lesbian bars before as a very close friend of mine is a lesbian, and yeah, not the most welcoming of environments for any men. Lesbians seem to like men far less than gay men like women. I was respectful and had fun with my friend, but it still was not pleasant. I don't begrudge anyone places they feel safe, and the encroachment of straight people into queer only safe spaces is an issue, but I think gay people could do more to be inclusive with each other from both sides.

In SL, I don't see this as much of an issue as we have tools to block and mute people if they are bothering you. You don't have that option in RL.

So, I guess you cannot understand that, pixels or illusion notwithstanding, that some of us might be triggered by seeing male avis? Whether you understand that or not, or believe it is valid or not, I am just saying that being around male avis is absolutely triggering for me, right or wrong, crazy or not. I feel anxious even just talking about this.

I am not looking to convince you or anyone else, though. You are free to feel what you want. I just want to point out that there are reasons for not having male avis in some spaces even if we all know they are gay men (though I have never been to a space where that made any difference, it isn't just the look, it is just as much the personality). Nothing is going to change by anything I think or feel, but I do want to give a perspective that seems to not exist on the Forum.

Btw, I do have to say that very few of the lesbians, whatever their actual RL gender, are as reactive as I am about this; most have a lot of 'male' friends in SL and often run clubs that welcome men. So maybe it is just me. 🤷🏻‍♀️The solution is obvious, though, and I have applied it. So I guess none of my business in the end.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

8 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I don't want to be the person that gets it closed, esp since I am basically an interloper here.

Having a thread closed because of your post makes you more like most people in the forums. 

[Roxy Couturier]

2 hours ago, Starberry Passion said:

Me either BUT if you're going to hit on me (not you, I mean anyone in general) you should at least have a descent looking avatar. I'm sorry, you come up to me in a system body and it feels like you've not tried, I'll ignore you.

Even better is when they duck walk up to you, hands splayed to stand directly in front of your AV (to make sure you can see them, I guess?) and do that basic 'corn cob up the butt' lean so it looks like they're leer looking at your boobs while hitting on you..

sooooo sexy

[Ayashe Ninetails]

7 minutes ago, stlshayne said:

I remember switching from Signature to Jake. Signature has no butt at all, so you have to have the booty slider all the way up.... so when I put on my Jake body, before I edited the shape - I would enter a room and my butt would still be making its way through the doorway a minute later. 

Lol, this is a mood. I normally keep my butt slider somewhere in the 60s for Lara, so the first time I tossed on a pair of Jake pants, I was like "gyat!!!" So did NOT expect that, lmao.

Then I got mad! How is Jake's booty even better than what I'm carrying around? The hell???