Qie Niangao Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 13 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Even more, as can be seen regularly on these same Forums, many (if not most) people overestimate their OWN knowledge of their computers, software, Second Life viewers, etc. If it weren't for Dunning/Kruger I wouldn't have the confidence to get out of bed. 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 23 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Even more, as can be seen regularly on these same Forums, many (if not most) people overestimate their OWN knowledge of their computers, software, Second Life viewers, etc. I've freely admitted I am not tech knowledgeable at all. What I can do is read and comprehend information that is pertinent when I run into issues. Be it with SL or tech in general, I know my limitations. If a problem is beyond my capabilities, I ask, I learn, I ask some more. What I don't do is throw up my hands and say ,"Fudge it! I quit!". 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriannaLovey Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said: Using a non-compliant viewer doesn't affect anyone else. What is meant by shared experience as far as TPVs goes is...they can't put something new in THEIR viewer that would affect how others see the world. Let's take mesh as an example. If a third party viewer had created mesh and a viewer to view it BEFORE LL implemented it, the people NOT on that third party viewer wouldn't be able to see the mesh. Same with PBR. If FS had implemented a PBR viewer before LL and people were creating PBR content, LL would shut that down since the OFFICIAL viewer wasn't yet PBR enabled. Any third party viewer has to implement any experience changes after LL does. https://secondlife.com/corporate/third-party-viewers A TPV viewer with mesh trying to even create mesh assets on a grid that doesn't support mesh would not be able to upload the mesh at all, unless it did one of 2 things: 1) Host the mesh assets on a server entirely separate from LL's. 2) Use existing asset formats (sound would be the most likely candidate, since a sound file is essentially just a sequential list of numbers,) as a carrier for the mesh assets. The mesh would be encoded into a sound file (or series of sound files if the triangle count is too large for a single one,) then uploaded as sound by the viewer. The sound asset IDs could be written somewhere on the prim's metadata (sculpt texture slot is best, as this is what the current mesh implementation actually uses) with some indication that they are actually mesh. The viewer could then download the sound, decode it to mesh objects, and render them in place of the prim. Any viewer without this capability would try to parse the sound UUID as a sculpt texture and fail. Edited July 11 by BriannaLovey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 15 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said: A TPV viewer with mesh trying to even create mesh assets on a grid that doesn't support mesh would not be able to upload the mesh at all, unless it did one of 2 things: 1) Host the mesh assets on a server entirely separate from LL's. 2) Use existing asset formats (sound would be the most likely candidate, since a sound file is essentially just a sequential list of numbers,) as a carrier for the mesh assets. The mesh would be encoded into a sound file (or series of sound files if the triangle count is too large for a single one,) then uploaded as sound by the viewer. The sound asset IDs could be written somewhere on the prim's metadata (sculpt texture slot is best, as this is what the current mesh implementation actually uses) with some indication that they are actually mesh. The viewer could then download the sound, decode it to mesh objects, and render them in place of the prim. Any viewer without this capability would try to parse the sound UUID as a sculpt texture and fail. Whether it was technically possible wasn't the point. The point was that TPV can't introduce something on their viewer that LL doesn't have on the official viewer that would impact how everyone on any viewer experienced SL. That's what is meant by shared experience in regards to TPV. Derender isn't in the official viewer nor is RLV but is on TPVs because in no way affects users of the official viewer. Edited July 11 by Rowan Amore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 32 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: Even more, as can be seen regularly on these same Forums, many (if not most) people overestimate their OWN knowledge of their computers, software, Second Life viewers, etc. I've freely admitted I am not tech knowledgeable at all. What I can do is read and comprehend information that is pertinent when I run into issues. Be it with SL or tech in general, I know my limitations. If a problem is beyond my capabilities, I ask, I learn, I ask some more. What I don't do is throw up my hands and say ,"Fudge it! I quit!". I was thinking about these types of examples that came up recently: - "But it's bad to let my computer and/or graphics card reach 100% utilization!!!" - "But if I whitelist FS, that disables my AV protection!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: If it weren't for Dunning/Kruger I wouldn't have the confidence to get out of bed. Best response to the original snarky and condescending post. +1 That's the best response made me laugh. So perfect Edited July 11 by Codex Alpha 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discussionbot Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, Codex Alpha said: Oh no, I'm fully aware how I know nothing, but you and others know everything. Thanks for such an enlightening post. Just another day on The Forums 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 6 hours ago, discussionbot said: Just another day on The Forums I edited my post re-read, but thanks for seeing this Edited July 12 by Codex Alpha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liv Simondsen Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 I installed the latest version of Firestorm but i can't see any change in graphics .. I snobbed PBR so far but wanted to give it a try so .. How can i see improvments ? Thank you in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 minute ago, Liv Simondsen said: I installed the latest version of Firestorm but i can't see any change in graphics .. I snobbed PBR so far but wanted to give it a try so .. How can i see improvments ? Thank you in advance. Some people would suggest you're one of the lucky ones! The degree to which you notice a difference will depend on 1) the EEP setting you are using, and 2) the presence of objects with PBR textures, particularly shiny or reflective ones -- including mirrors. In general, the new viewers create more dynamic lighting, so lights are lighter (and, using old EEPs, often washed out), and the darks are darker. Fiddle with some of EEPs in your library (such as CalWL) and you'll see a difference from how these render in the old viewers. Some of these are now all but unusable. JuicyBomb has a package of EEPs along with working mirrors you can try that are pretty cheap. https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/JuicyBomb-Eternal-Skies-EEP-Settings-PBR-Ready-Second-Life-Mirrors/26117454 There's not a great deal of PBR content on the grid yet, so you'll have to look for it, or buy it yourself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liv Simondsen Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Some people would suggest you're one of the lucky ones! The degree to which you notice a difference will depend on 1) the EEP setting you are using, and 2) the presence of objects with PBR textures, particularly shiny or reflective ones -- including mirrors. Thank you very much, i will try the EEP you suggested! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 39 minutes ago, Liv Simondsen said: I installed the latest version of Firestorm but i can't see any change in graphics .. I snobbed PBR so far but wanted to give it a try so .. How can i see improvments ? Thank you in advance. You could demo this PBR dress Rowan found, trying various EEP's while wearing it to see how PBR reflection probes react on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiloh Lyric Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said: I've freely admitted I am not tech knowledgeable at all. What I can do is read and comprehend information that is pertinent when I run into issues. Be it with SL or tech in general, I know my limitations. If a problem is beyond my capabilities, I ask, I learn, I ask some more. What I don't do is throw up my hands and say ,"Fudge it! I quit!". Yep. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaomiLocket Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 On 7/12/2024 at 4:21 AM, Love Zhaoying said: I was thinking about these types of examples that came up recently: - "But it's bad to let my computer and/or graphics card reach 100% utilization!!!" - "But if I whitelist FS, that disables my AV protection!" Both bottlenecks and points of vulnerability (driver signing/ring 0 system) exploits have taught people to have those reasonable sorts of sentiments in general. It's not wild or outlandish. It's a trade off and a risk assessment, or a performance concern and budget impact decision that isn't really for the opinion of a third party. And there has always been a persistent level of irony with "this update makes better use of the system resources - but oh no have to cap and throttle it again nullifying the 'better use of system resources'" to a degree. Nothing is black and white in this topic. There was mention some of the moles use Mac's. Ergo until the in development vulkan driver is actually released for end-user use instead of developer-only it doesn't make sense to do anything other than develop vulkan in the background for when the day comes instead of telling the moles to take a holiday for a few years. etc. So opengl is the short term status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXSuicidalIdolXx Candycane Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 In no way do I mean disrespect I also know how the forms can be.. I 100% totally agree with the OP on this I've only been in Second Life for about 3 years now everyday when I can. I have read many threads and I quite possibly love the tech nerds on here because I gain a lot of information. Again I agree that something seems off and unfortunately it sucks however one of the biggest things that I have noticed on this form is that the older residents who started on this platform refused to upgrade their PCS and I'm not talking go out and get a Max Level gaming PC but there has to be some give and take. I realize that a lot of older residents who have been here 16 years or more are a lot older maybe 40s 50s even Boomers. However because in real life I have a pair of parents who are in their 70s and I am in my 20s I understand also where older people do not want to dabble in Tech. However there has to be some give and take here. I have seen that it doesn't matter with high-end PCs on this the problem with PBR it still exists and the amount of people that I have seen around the forms and social media talk about how old their PC is.. I'm not talking 4 years old I'm talking the ones who have very outdated computers. I have met and seen on this form quite a few older residents who are stuck with the times where they don't think that they need to upgrade their computer or they don't think that they feel they need to do anything with second life and the devs should revolve around them. Let me be clear I am not dunking on anybody and I'm not dunking on the OP but as somebody who somewhat is fluent and understands this platform if you're running 8 gigs of RAM, and or you're on a laptop that's another thing. on Facebook and some of the groups people were shouting in the comments section because this new update is making their laptops on fire. listen it's called a cooling mat as someone who has a desktop PC and started on Second Life with a laptop Electronics do not like heat. I spent $50 on Amazon for a very nice four power setting cooling mat and let me tell you it is a lifesaver. What I'm trying to get at I do feel it falls on actual people Behind These avatars to do a little bit of research and give and take. if you're on a laptop save your Hardware by trying to cool it down and if you're on a desktop PC you don't need to break the bank. When people talk gaming PCs it doesn't mean a $1,200 piece of Machinery sitting on your desk with an Intel Core I9, Nvidia RTX 4090 graphics card. All I ask and I think this needs to be pointed out more people behind the avatar need to play their part (technology is ever growing) So let me be clear I 100%, and now understanding that Linden lab is not making the best choices and we get silenced. They might be great people don't get me wrong I love what they stand for but what you can do behind that screen is do just a little bit of research to keep your PC healthy and keep your mind at peace. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXSuicidalIdolXx Candycane Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 (edited) I want to do my part and help those struggling with their PCs and help gain some knowledge, I started from nothing not knowing anything tech about todays computers, 2 youtubers I always try to share when able are linked below. I would really try to give at least JayzTwoCents a try as he is the sole reason I got so far with gaming computers and learned so much about Windows further than I ever could understand, many years of know how he deep dives into simple to advanced areas. Gamers Nexus has great videos too for those who want to know more about the computer tech news, cases, products etc I wanted to share them because maybe some of you are stuck and have no idea where to start, some of the replies have been helpful with adjusting settings, my part is telling you to invest in a cooling mat on amazon, watch these youtubers and ohhhh dont forget to clean the dust out of your computers! I wanted to do my part because I dont want to see anyone go. this is our home and there are still things we can do, so lets try to stick together? JayzTwoCents. YouTube Gamers Nexus. YouTube both of these posts I made and I pasted from another thread as I feel its relevant here, not trying to spam. just trying to help Edited July 15 by xXSuicidalIdolXx Candycane Added Stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerry Moonshadow Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 I do Understand that PBR makes things look nice and it's where a lot of creators want things to go, but i am quite shocked older computer owners have been totally blocked out , especially Mac, my comp is old but still quite capable running Mojave with a 4gb metal card, I do graphics work quite happily ..anyhoo ..went to log in and found my FS viewer was blocked , not that I read or concentrate on reading forums, I just create, there didn't seem to be any warning about my vers being blocked, I found both FS and the SL viewer had no versions that would install, btw my previous vers of FS was working fine in SL .now I have had to start using Singularity and to a big extent re-learn . anyhoo just annoyed that peeps with older machines appear to have been blocked , we cant all afford new machines every few years ..god I sound like I am a Grumble Bum lol...Just sayin...if the version of viewers works and doesn't hurt anything , why block it ...have a wonderful day everyone . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modulated Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 4 minutes ago, gerry Moonshadow said: I do Understand that PBR makes things look nice and it's where a lot of creators want things to go, but i am quite shocked older computer owners have been totally blocked out , especially Mac, my comp is old but still quite capable running Mojave with a 4gb metal card, I do graphics work quite happily ..anyhoo ..went to log in and found my FS viewer was blocked , not that I read or concentrate on reading forums, I just create, there didn't seem to be any warning about my vers being blocked, I found both FS and the SL viewer had no versions that would install, btw my previous vers of FS was working fine in SL .now I have had to start using Singularity and to a big extent re-learn . anyhoo just annoyed that peeps with older machines appear to have been blocked , we cant all afford new machines every few years ..god I sound like I am a Grumble Bum lol...Just sayin...if the version of viewers works and doesn't hurt anything , why block it ...have a wonderful day everyone . If your version was 6.6.8, there was like a month of notices on the login screen and group notices too . It wasn't just suddenly. You don't have to move to the PBR viewer, just go up one FS version to remain supported. https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_older_downloads 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 On 7/11/2024 at 2:01 PM, Porky Gorky said: Someone who is good at naming ***** should come up with an appropriate doomsayerish type name for this day. "Pathetic Bloatstorm Rejection Day" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mygoditsfullofstars Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 We didn't start the fire </billyjoel> 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 This is mostly for those not on a PBR viewer, who don't have ALM on and never use shared environment. That applier makeup that looks awesome? Not so much in PBR viewers in darker regions. When I switched to a neutral, lighter EEP she looked ok or normal. Might want to switch to BoM... https://gyazo.com/aa148bd9ed63651d84291b9cf16171ab 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 12 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: This is mostly for those not on a PBR viewer, who don't have ALM on and never use shared environment. That applier makeup that looks awesome? Not so much in PBR viewers in darker regions. When I switched to a neutral, lighter EEP she looked ok or normal. Might want to switch to BoM... https://gyazo.com/aa148bd9ed63651d84291b9cf16171ab I really just dislike bom as it is too slow to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: I really just dislike bom as it is too slow to change. I always change makeup at home while changing clothes, hair,.accessories so a few seconds of grey when switching makeup is fine for me. I used to use applier lipstick until one day, I caught a glimpse of my lipstick at a darker club. I think you can mitigate some of that glow by turning off material but I'm ok with BoM makeup for now. Applier eye makeup I stopped using ages ago because they can glitch with your hair at certain angles. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmeliaJ08 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 If they would just give BOM an opacity control it'd be so much more useful for makeup... I don't think I wear any applier makeup at 100%, it's usually far too much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 18 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: I always change makeup at home while changing clothes, hair,.accessories so a few seconds of grey when switching makeup is fine for me. I used to use applier lipstick until one day, I caught a glimpse of my lipstick at a darker club. I think you can mitigate some of that glow by turning off material but I'm ok with BoM makeup for now. Applier eye makeup I stopped using ages ago because they can glitch with your hair at certain angles. I was thinking, glow-in-the-dark makeup would be cool! (Unless it's being worn by a scary clown.) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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