Firestorm PBR Release Is Out

[HeathcliffMontague]

I've tried some cars in OS... it was a complete joke. I think I'll stay in SL. Where my car might inexplicitly change colours, but at least remains driveable

[HeathcliffMontague]

4 minutes ago, Porky Gorky said:

But have you actually tried using a ZX Spectrum?

That sounds like a borderline AR-able offense

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, HeathcliffMontague said:

I've tried some cars in OS... it was a complete joke. I think I'll stay in SL. Where my car might inexplicitly change colours, but at least remains driveable

There are 2-3 different physics engines that need a version specific script. If have the right one, you can do things there, you can't here. On the right setting, it is nice not hitting a region crossing every 256 meters.

[Bonny Greenwood]

4 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It forces LL to clamp down on TPV access to the grid.

PBR is LL's baby. We don't get the choice to reject it.

We also don't have to accept it. LL stand to lose its members rather than improve the population decline. That's not just their problem. Everyone suffers since we we have a thriving in-world economy.

[Luna Bliss]

Was I hallucinating early this morn when I logged in or did Firestorm say the non-PBR viewer would not work anymore after a certain date?

[Bonny Greenwood]

1 hour ago, BriannaLovey said:

OpenSim doesn't have Havok, no. Physics seemed a bit better than they have been previously though. Just more pirated stuff. The reality though is that most users don't care about intellectual property, and most don't care about the difference in physics.

I've had friends encouraging me to move to other sims as well.. I've declined so far but if this situation in SL doesn't improve, I may consider looking into it. And if I leave, I take a big chunk of SL with me... I've contributed a LOT here. That's just an example of why it's so important that SL not try to alienate their users. You never know who you might lose in the process. We all make this virtual world what it is. Linden Labs provides the platform but we users do the rest really. Attracting new users is great but not if you're losing seasoned users who have years of experience and skills they contribute to SL.

Edited July 8 by Bonny Greenwood

[Luna Bliss]

I'm doing pretty much ok with the Firestorm update except for one troublesome thing -- my screen freezes briefly when I open my inventory. I suppose I should do the whitelisting thing and see if that helps.

[Luna Bliss]

15 minutes ago, Bonny Greenwood said:

Attracting new users is great but not if you're losing seasoned users who have years of experience and skills they contribute to SL.

All the seasoned creators I know are not leaving.  Even if some do I figure it's okay in the balance as we are losing far more residents and newcomers via looking like a virtual world from last century.

Edited July 8 by Luna Bliss

[Rowan Amore]

29 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Was I hallucinating early this morn when I logged in or did Firestorm say the non-PBR viewer would not work anymore after a certain date?

That was asked in another section with this reply...

On 7/5/2024 at 3:14 AM, panterapolnocy said:

Firestorm 6.6.8 will be blocked at that date, the one that was released in January 2023, as at this point is over 1,5 years old. The 6.6.14 and 6.6.17 versions will NOT be blocked - for now, of course; In the longer run FS PBR, and PBR in generał, are inevitable - even if some performance improvements can be done in the rendering department the lowest-spec machines may still not be able to handle it.

 

[Jaylinbridges]

15 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Just be aware there  is such as thing as PC performance anxiety, this is especially prevalent in SL nerdy folk because SL can run like junk on a good day when everything is going right (and the best course of action when that randomly happens is to give it a minute).

Or you risk ending up focused on the numbers and not on whatever you're supposed to be doing.

Close all the numbers, no FPS, no temps, no statistics at all .. and  trust that the teams of engineers that built the components and software in your PC got it right

Ah so that's my problem -  PC performance anxiety.  Can I get gov't benefits for that too? 

I didn't show the rest of my monitoring toolbar, but as you can see I also have tiny number and tiny graph anxiety:

First temp is outside today - sunny and hot. Smaller yellow numbers from the EVGA Precision GPU data, including VRAM usage, 2880 MB in my back yard, and 44 C GPU temp, % Usage and Fan %Speed.  The graph is real-time network data, only green bars  downloading to FS atm.  Another plug for NetWorx.  Of course clicking on the icons can give a more detailed screen display. 

I love instrumentation - it tells me all is well before I smell the smoke.  

I blame my early years of owning a Volkswagen Beetle with no gasoline tank gauge.

Edited July 8 by Jaylinbridges

[Codex Alpha]

6 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Ah so that's my problem -  PC performance anxiety.  Can I get gov't benefits for that too? 

I didn't show the rest of my monitoring toolbar, but as you can see I also have tiny number and tiny graph anxiety:

First temp is outside today - sunny and hot. Smaller yellow numbers from the XVGA Precision GPU data, including VRAM usage, 2880 MB in my back yard, and 44 C GPU temp, % Usage and Fan %Speed.  The graph is real-time network data, only green bars  downloading to FS atm.  Another plug for NetWorx.  Of course clicking on the icons can give a more detailed screen display. 

I love instrumentation - it tells me all is well before I smell the smoke.  

I blame my early years of owning a Volkswagen Beetle with no gasoline tank gauge.

Without instrumentation, I wouldn't have realized my water cooler had died at one point.. or that a fan on my GPU had somehow jammed and stopped spinning...or that an intake fan was no longer spinning, etc. Or even that the new PBR viewer was making antivirus go crazy.. All I would have heard was fans going crazy and not know the process that was doing it. I don't know what it is about this place.. just snobbery and scoffing at others that are not like them.

[Bonny Greenwood]

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

All the seasoned creators I know are not leaving.  Even if some do I figure it's okay in the balance as we are losing far more residents and newcomers via looking like a virtual world from last century.

I can't say I would agree at all. I think that you lose a lot of potential with that kind of outlook. SL could be a little more patient and give some time for others to prepare. Firestorm only just became PBR capable and that's the viewer most people I know even use. It's too soon to expect the whole of SL to push over and be ready for this, especially when there's clearly many bugs yet to be worked out. You have PBR now... so there's no reason those of you who enjoy it, can't just enjoy it without expecting the rest who aren't ready to conform right away. You have the technology at your fingertips now... why should SL have to lose anyone along the way? 

[BriannaLovey]

3 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

Without instrumentation, I wouldn't have realized my water cooler had died at one point.. or that a fan on my GPU had somehow jammed and stopped spinning...or that an intake fan was no longer spinning, etc. Or even that the new PBR viewer was making antivirus go crazy.. All I would have heard was fans going crazy and not know the process that was doing it. I don't know what it is about this place.. just snobbery and scoffing at others that are not like them.

Paternalism is the right word. Close your eyes and just trust(tm) us because we know what is best(tm) for you.

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Bonny Greenwood said:

5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

All the seasoned creators I know are not leaving.  Even if some do I figure it's okay in the balance as we are losing far more residents and newcomers via looking like a virtual world from last century.

I can't say I would agree at all. I think that you lose a lot of potential with that kind of outlook. SL could be a little more patient and give some time for others to prepare. Firestorm only just became PBR capable and that's the viewer most people I know even use. It's too soon to expect the whole of SL to push over and be ready for this, especially when there's clearly many bugs yet to be worked out. You have PBR now... so there's no reason those of you who enjoy it, can't just enjoy it without expecting the rest who aren't ready to conform right away. You have the technology at your fingertips now... why should SL have to lose anyone along the way? 

Anyone who is a "seasoned creator" would have been paying attention to the meta levels of LL (the forum and other interested groups) where this has been discussed for months. So I certainly wouldn't blame LL for my own lack of participation and accuse them of springing this on us out of the blue.

One also has to consider that a lot of these bugs don't surface until they're out in the wild, and so we are (to a degree) guinea pigs. Likely no developers get it perfect right off the bat. Expect bugs and you'll be happier.

Lacking funds/staff for extensive testing could also play into it.

If anybody leaves it's their choice because they were dumb enough to expect perfection  right off the bat and also never kept track of PBR discussions that have been going on for months! Personally, I'll be glad to see such whiners hit the road.  Adios!

I do have compassion for those who are confused and trying to make this work. The forum has been helpful to those needing to tweak their settings since PBR went live on Firestorm.

But instead of insisting LL spoon feed people one could attend one of the numerous classes addressing these issues (I keep posting the classes, and they can be discovered through a bit of research) instead of complaining on the forum how unfair LL is and threatening to leave.

Edited July 8 by Luna Bliss

[Bonny Greenwood]

38 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Anyone who is a "seasoned creator" would have been paying attention to the meta levels of LL (the forum and other interested groups) where this has been discussed for months. So I certainly wouldn't blame LL for my own lack of participation and accuse them of springing this on us out of the blue.

One also has to consider that a lot of these bugs don't surface until they're out in the wild, and so we are (to a degree) guinea pigs. Likely no developers get it perfect right off the bat. Expect bugs and you'll be happier.

Lacking funds/staff for extensive testing could also play into it.

If anybody leaves it's their choice because they were dumb enough to expect perfection  right off the bat and also never kept track of PBR discussions that have been going on for months! Personally, I'll be glad to see such whiners hit the road.  Adios!

I do have compassion for those who are confused and trying to make this work. The forum has been helpful to those needing to tweak their settings since PBR went life on Firestorm.

But instead of insisting LL spoon feed people one could attend one of the numerous classes addressing these issues (I keep posting the classes, and they can be discovered through a bit of research) instead of complaining on the forum.

I don't see this.... compassion... you speak of... but ok. Noted... Luna Bliss.

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Bonny Greenwood said:

I don't see this.... compassion... you speak of... but ok. Noted... Luna Bliss.

How much compassion should we have for people who blame others for their own problems?  There comes a time when you need to say "time to grow up and accept responsibility".  Do you want me to pat your head while you sit in pain and believe there's nothing you can do to help yourself?

[Bonny Greenwood]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

How much compassion should we have for people who blame others for their own problems?  There comes a time when you need to say "time to grow up and accept responsibility".  Do you want me to pat your head while you sit in pain and believe there's nothing you can do to help yourself?

Sweetie.... I'm done.... have a good day... my time is wasted on people like you. Cheers!

[Coffee Pancake]

5 hours ago, Bonny Greenwood said:

We also don't have to accept it.

Yes we do.

PBR and the new tooling are part of a much bigger platform shift. A full industry standard workflow that meets the needs of unity and unreal developers. PBR is step one. GLTF & extensions is step two (in beta testing now) and that all but kills in world building. SL is changing in some very big ways and we're only just seeing the surface scratches so far.

There is no option to opt out, no way to side step

Thinking about running away to opensim? They've got PBR too.

 

 

[Luna Bliss]

8 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

SL is changing in some very big ways and we're only just seeing the surface scratches so far.

There is no option to opt out, no way to side step

https://www.habbo.com/

[Bonny Greenwood]

41 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Yes we do.

PBR and the new tooling are part of a much bigger platform shift. A full industry standard workflow that meets the needs of unity and unreal developers. PBR is step one. GLTF & extensions is step two (in beta testing now) and that all but kills in world building. SL is changing in some very big ways and we're only just seeing the surface scratches so far.

There is no option to opt out, no way to side step

Thinking about running away to opensim? They've got PBR too.

 

 

No, actually, I don't. I can choose to leave. We always have choices. Anyway... I'm done with this thread. We will see how this PBR pans out won't we. I think though... the callous attitudes I've encountered here tell me a lot about some of the people that comment here... Not everyone can afford the required updates to their computers that will allow them to experience these updates smoothly but compassion for these people seem to be very lacking. SL has people from all over the world with many different backgrounds and economic capabilities. SL has always been more than a gaming platform. It's been a community full of diversity and inspiration. It's disappointing to read some of the comments from my fellow SLers. But this is a social forum so I suppose I should expect to encounter the typical opinionated keyboard warriors here. Best wishes.

Edited July 8 by Bonny Greenwood

[AmeliaJ08]

11 hours ago, HeathcliffMontague said:

Ever been stuck on a so called "potato" in SL? You get pretty inventive. I've done the spectrum from Core2 to i7, so I have some experience from all sides

 

Yep. Was using a GT640M laptop for SL until 2021. It couldn't even run with ALM turned on acceptably (and that's despite being a 2012 dedicated GPU) so I bit the bullet and upgraded since I knew I was missing out on a lot. iGPU's have never been able to run with ALM enabled either, there's maybe 2 current iGPU models on the market in 2024 where this is even - maybe - possible.

Sometimes you just have to keep at least somewhat up to date, it's an intensive graphical application.

 

 

 

Edited July 8 by AmeliaJ08

[discussionbot]

3 hours ago, Bonny Greenwood said:

It's disappointing to read some of the comments from my fellow SLers. But this is a social forum so I suppose I should expect to encounter the typical opinionated keyboard warriors here.

Indeed, welcome to the Second Life forums. It's just another unfiltered (mostly) corner of the internet so don't take it too seriously. You're also arguing with a Reddit mod, which is often a futile exercise. (Just kidding Coffee lol)

[HeathcliffMontague]

4 hours ago, Bonny Greenwood said:

 the callous attitudes I've encountered here tell me a lot about some of the people that comment here... 

Sadly, yes. Please don't leave, we need people like you here  

[Bonny Greenwood]

54 minutes ago, HeathcliffMontague said:

Sadly, yes. Please don't leave, we need people like you here  

Thank you. I'm not leaving. I'm simply choosing my battles. I'll be around for the next go. I've said my piece here and have nothing else to share nor do I care to contend with condescending keyboard warriors... so I shall be moving along to the next topic of interest. Thank you for your support. 

[JeromFranzic]

7 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Thinking about running away to opensim? They've got PBR too.

Yes, but sim owners there have more leeway vs SL. There are some committed to not implementing PBR. We'll see how that pans out, but IMV... anyway, depends on how the server software advances as PBR gains wider acceptance in Open Sim.