The Future of SL Business

[Jaimy Hancroft]

16 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

What may trigger a lock of an account that maybe 'account sharing' for whatever reason, is frequent access by different IPs (some across the world) to the same account that clearly wouldn't be the same person. Doesn't have to be a report could be an automated security process that got triggered.

If you're a store big enough to have multi-contributers or employees and there will be multiple people logging into the account to manage its affairs, customer service, or uploading and creating listings, it would probably be best to get LL's okay on that, as it is not normal account activity.

Thats what we've been trying to do  with LL.

and it's not just customer service really.
if i land in the ER again as i dis before and i get stuck in the hospital for a week and a half , I do need someone to log in and take care of tiers, staff, event deadline setups and other issues , another account usually can't do much when it comes to the vendors etc , it has to be the store owner.

I think plenty of stores have this same fear now.

[belindacarson]

There's always two sides to every story. And we have only heard one.

 

Why are they singling out other people who seem to have nothing to do with this whatsoever?

 

Just saying.  Unless you know both sides, it's just fodder for the forums keyboard warriors.

[Jaimy Hancroft]

13 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It's interesting that many customers and users expect SL and merchants to have 24/7 service! 🙂

 

you have no idea lol. they often expect an answer within an hour or they will message every csr we have lol

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Jaimy Hancroft said:

13 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It's interesting that many customers and users expect SL and merchants to have 24/7 service! 🙂

 

you have no idea lol. they often expect an answer within an hour or they will message every csr we have lol

Not only that...in more cases than I can count they want me to come out to their land!

[Jaimy Hancroft]

7 minutes ago, belindacarson said:

There's always two sides to every story. And we have only heard one.

 

Why are they singling out other people who seem to have nothing to do with this whatsoever?

 

Just saying.  Unless you know both sides, it's just fodder for the forums keyboard warriors.

not sure what side you're looking for ,
it's literally went like this:
DRD deleted, MP deleted
DRD makes ticket to appeal the closure of the account.
LL breaks down TOS for DRD about our account being shared
DRD asks to obtain Written consent
LL says we can't get it.

My avatar is now released back to me and me and LL are now finally trying to come up with a solution. so fingers crossed.

and hopefully this helps:
https://feedback.secondlife.com/feature-requests/p/allow-business-accounts-to-share-access-responsibly

 

Edited June 18 by Jaimy Hancroft

[belindacarson]

6 minutes ago, Jaimy Hancroft said:

not sure what side you're looking for ,
it's literally went like this:
DRD deleted, MP deleted
DRD makes ticket to appeal the closure of the account.
LL breaks down TOS for DRD about our account being shared
DRD asks to obtain Written consent
LL says we can't get it.

My avatar is now released back to me and me and LL are now finally trying to come up with a solution. so fingers crossed.

and hopefully this helps:
https://feedback.secondlife.com/feature-requests/p/allow-business-accounts-to-share-access-responsibly

 

So why were you dragging other uninvolved users into it?

[Jaimy Hancroft]

2 minutes ago, belindacarson said:

So why were you dragging other uninvolved users into it?

I'm not dragging anyone into anything, as i said earlier

I used  it as an obvious example to clearify that people are not awake 24/7.
i'm gonne leave this thread alone for people to just discuss. all I want is for LL to come up with a good solution for these bussineses, events, collabs and so forth
really glad the feedback portal got a lot of traction from big designers which tells me theres a big need for this from many designers  and projects.

[belindacarson]

13 minutes ago, Jaimy Hancroft said:

I'm not dragging anyone into anything, as i said earlier

I used  it as an obvious example to clearify that people are not awake 24/7.
i'm gonne leave this thread alone for people to just discuss. all I want is for LL to come up with a good solution for these bussineses, events, collabs and so forth
really glad the feedback portal got a lot of traction from big designers which tells me theres a big need for this from many designers  and projects.

But you kept mentioning other uninvolved people, they even got mentioned on that video, text was even highlighted.

 

What was the reasoning behind dragging uninvolved people into it? If it was just a passing reference I could understand it, but even in a video seems a tad overkill.

Edited June 18 by belindacarson
auto correct

[Sid Nagy]

10 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

In fairness, sometimes people create threads with a title like this one, in an attempt to get around the "don't talk about what was in a previously locked thread" rule. (I didn't think that was your intent.)

Strangely you always remember this kind of stuff only when you are not interested or you don't like the content.
 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, belindacarson said:

There's always two sides to every story. And we have only heard one.

 

Why are they singling out other people who seem to have nothing to do with this whatsoever?

 

Just saying.  Unless you know both sides, it's just fodder for the forums keyboard warriors.

We've heard both sides. LL's side can be found here and here. From that it can be seen that all the larger stores and creators are involved if they were following LL's own recommended practices  https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Managing_business_projects_in_Second_Life

[SabrinaCooke]

This isn't the first time LL has done this. I have first hand information about a creator who also had this happen to them. No warning or communication at all from LL. They tried to log in and they couldn't, and was informed that their account was suspended. It took a while to sort it out on LL's end, while the poor creator was freaking out. 

Edited June 18 by SabrinaCooke
Grammar.

[Persephone Emerald]

2 hours ago, belindacarson said:

But you kept mentioning other uninvolved people, they even got mentioned on that video, text was even highlighted.

What was the reasoning behind dragging uninvolved people into it? If it was just a passing reference I could understand it, but even in a video seems a tad overkill.

That other business is frequently mentioned in articles about SL businesses because it's an obvious example of a big and successful business in SL.  The  YouTuber mentioned it as an example in her video. @Jaimy Hancroft is not responsible for what she, I or other people post.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

Strangely you always remember this kind of stuff only when you are not interested or you don't like the content.
 

Figurative "you"? I neither am disinterested, nor do I dislike the content. Are you reacting merely because I actually believe many, many merchants found a way to run their business without multiple users on the same account? I posted that earlier but didn't view replies yet.

I'm disappointed, Sid. Give me some credit, please. I neither posted "I do not like this topic", nor did I express explicit "disinterest".

What I take from your comment is, anyone who doesn't "toe the line" against LL in these topics must be disingenuous. 

Edited June 18 by Love Zhaoying
Missing word

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Jaimy Hancroft said:

you have no idea lol. they often expect an answer within an hour or they will message every csr we have lol

That's unreasonable, to put it way too politely.

[Jaylinbridges]

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Managing_business_projects_in_Second_Life

This page was last edited on 14 June 2024, at 17:04.

It is not an old out of date WIKI, since it was modified 4 days ago.

But forming a second account as a business account and managing everything with group permissions does not work for many creators.  LL clearly ignored their recent WIKI, and assumed DRD was a personal account and password sharing was not allowed.  And offered no suggestions other than the right to appeal after having your business and SL account removed without warning.  

The real question is - where does the buck stop with these unworkable rules.  It seem to me it stops at the very TOP of the LL organization.  Governance appears powerless to change anything on their own.

Edited June 18 by Jaylinbridges

[Innula Zenovka]

1 hour ago, SabrinaCooke said:

This isn't the first time LL has done this. I have first hand information about a creator who also had this happen to them. No warning or communication at all from LL. They tried to log in and they couldn't, and was informed that their account was suspended. It took a while to sort it out on LL's end, while the poor creator was freaking out. 

Imagine you're a content creator with considerable amounts of content in your inventory that you've spent days and weeks creating, a store on which you've spent a great deal of time, and a lot of L$ in your account.

Something happens to trigger a flag (an unusually large transfer of L$ to someone else, perhaps) and LL see that the transfer was made when the account was logged in from a different city/country from where you're normally based, and on a machine you've not used before.

You may, of course, be travelling, or perhaps are using a VPN and have just bought a new machine, or you may be sharing your account with a business partner.   

Or someone may have hijacked your account and have full access to your inventory and L$ balance.

Should LL assume that it's you, or someone with whom you're sharing your account, or, as a precaution, should they lock the account until they've established that someone else has not stolen it?     You know it's your friend logging in on your account, but LL don't.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Imagine you're a content creator with considerable amounts of content in your inventory that you've spent days and weeks creating, a store on which you've spent a great deal of time, and a lot of L$ in your account.

Something happens to trigger a flag (an unusually large transfer of L$ to someone else, perhaps) and LL see that the transfer was made when the account was logged in from a different city/country from where you're normally based, and on a machine you've not used before.

You may, of course, be travelling, or perhaps are using a VPN and have just bought a new machine, or you may be sharing your account with a business partner.   

Or someone may have hijacked your account and have full access to your inventory and L$ balance.

Should LL assume that it's you, or someone with whom you're sharing your account, or, as a precaution, should they lock the account until they've established that someone else has not stolen it?     You know it's your friend logging in on your account, but LL don't.

 

Great example!

[Rick Nightingale]

4 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

as a precaution, should they lock the account until they've established that someone else has not stolen it?

That part I completely agree with.

The problem here that I see is that businesses need the ability to have multiple real people with access to a single business account 'avatar'.

LL's refusal (in this case at least) to allow that, and not have such an obviously required system in place already, is ludicrous.

Edited June 18 by Rick Nightingale

[SabrinaCooke]

1 minute ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Imagine you're a content creator with considerable amounts of content in your inventory that you've spent days and weeks creating, a store on which you've spent a great deal of time, and a lot of L$ in your account.

Something happens to trigger a flag (an unusually large transfer of L$ to someone else, perhaps) and LL see that the transfer was made when the account was logged in from a different city/country from where you're normally based, and on a machine you've not used before.

You may, of course, be travelling, or perhaps are using a VPN and have just bought a new machine, or you may be sharing your account with a business partner.   

Or someone may have hijacked your account and have full access to your inventory and L$ balance.

Should LL assume that it's you, or someone with whom you're sharing your account, or, as a precaution, should they lock the account until they've established that someone else has not stolen it?     You know it's your friend logging in on your account, but LL don't.

 

The point I'm trying to make is there could have been some kind of warning system in place for this, instead of just suspending their account and completely deleting their MP (which also happened to the person I was talking about). LL has had 21 years of dealing with this issue; I'm going to assume this isn't the first time it's come up. Why haven't they taken steps to resolve this earlier? It's not very good business practice to ignore the needs of a large section of the community. 

I already get an alert when I log on to my account on a different machine/device when I'm in the same house. Why can't they do that for accounts that log in from other IP addresses?

[BJoyful]

4 minutes ago, SabrinaCooke said:

The point I'm trying to make is there could have been some kind of warning system in place for this, instead of just suspending their account and completely deleting their MP

I can imagine an account hacker or phisher would really appreciate that warning from LL so they could make sure the funds disappeared before the account could be frozen.

[Cristiano Midnight]

1 minute ago, SabrinaCooke said:

The point I'm trying to make is there could have been some kind of warning system in place for this, instead of just suspending their account and completely deleting their MP (which also happened to the person I was talking about). LL has had 21 years of dealing with this issue; I'm going to assume this isn't the first time it's come up. Why haven't they taken steps to resolve this earlier? It's not very good business practice to ignore the needs of a large section of the community. 

I already get an alert when I log on to my account on a different machine/device when I'm in the same house. Why can't they do that for accounts that log in from other IP addresses?

I assume the MP store was suspended the same way the account was, not deleted. There are definitely better ways for LL to handle this, but the fact that there are many large and small vendors doing account sharing with no major notable issues in those 21 years also means it is not some urgent problem to solve. As long as the resolution process is easy if an account is locked for protection after unusual activity, is it a massive issue?

[SabrinaCooke]

Just now, BJoyful said:

I can imagine an account hacker or phisher would really appreciate that warning from LL so they could make sure the funds disappeared before the account could be frozen.

I did think of that, too, but it's better than nothing. Especially since there's 2FA now.

[SabrinaCooke]

Just now, Cristiano Midnight said:

I assume the MP store was suspended the same way the account was, not deleted. There are definitely better ways for LL to handle this, but the fact that there are many large and small vendors doing account sharing with no major notable issues in those 21 years also means it is not some urgent problem to solve. As long as the resolution process is easy if an account is locked for protection after unusual activity, is it a massive issue?

Yes, it was suspended, but the reviews got deleted. 

That's the other question I have: why is this coming up now, if so many people have been sharing accounts for all those years? And if LL was okay with it for that long, why are they being punitive now? 

[Jaylinbridges]

5 minutes ago, SabrinaCooke said:

And if LL was okay with it for that long, why are they being punitive now? 

Which repeats my question - WHO is doing this in LL?   Names please - It must be coming from one of the top executives who are publically listed on LL's own business page.  What has changed here?  Do we have new decision makers now in LL?

[Cristiano Midnight]

9 minutes ago, SabrinaCooke said:

Yes, it was suspended, but the reviews got deleted. 

That's the other question I have: why is this coming up now, if so many people have been sharing accounts for all those years? And if LL was okay with it for that long, why are they being punitive now? 

Was this an auto triggered action, as opposed to a punitive one? The rarity of it makes me think there is more to the story.