Jaimy Hancroft Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 2 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said: Reposted the OP (as an archive) with comments for folks that never come to the forums. Lots of creator - readers and they really need to know this. TY. Stay strong. Thank you so much! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecla Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Babydoll Bunny said: I find it pretty odd really with all the breaches on Marketplace the last 2 weeks, that THIS is their focus. It is possible that they are related. I have a friend who's a well respected and widely popular sim builder who's Linden accounts was drained of a VERY large amount of credits, and the working theory is that it in someway happened through their marketplace account or Caspervend. LL has been largely unresponsive, saying they are "investigating." That doesn't explain why they don't offer a solution to Jaimy regarding a shared account but it may have something to do with the initial marketplace store shutdown. Edited June 13 by Thecla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooky Shadow Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 19 minutes ago, RoryRudd said: I think it is very unrealistic to believe most businesses can be successful without the support of others. I do not understand how SL can single out one business when it is very apparent that some large monopolies are deffinately available 24/7 thus not operating as a 1 person avi. SL needs to provide business accounts that are exactly for that purpose. Also, for those of us that have been around for a very long sl time.....sl has already lost so many people, businesses and subscription is at a low.....we the consumers are the bread and butter that keeps the lindens flowing. Ummmm I would miss DRD if they cannot operate under this regime. SL fix it........ Rory (ummm not first avi either) 100% this. Bellisseria is great but it isn't why people come to SL and I feel that they think it is and the answer to bringing people back. It isn't. People stay for the creators as why the sales and shopping events are the most popular events happening. Why store groups are up in the 10s of thousands. Many stores have a tight knit community too and all of this is due to the creators. I am sure a very large majority of linden$ is spend at creators stores. Across from one of my parcels I have racist flags flying high and zero being done about it but DnD can't be awake 24/7 so they had their main source of revenue killed. Tell me how this makes any sense?! 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasterscan Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 What the Op needs is a formal appeal process. Does such a thing exist ? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True Absinthe Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 This is honestly scary for anyone in SL. I always felt safe spending money on this platform as they've never been overzealous about banning. I have spent a sickening amount on my account and so realizing they’d ban me if I let my friend log in to do some building or help edit something is extremely concerning. Sometimes there is a legitimate reason to let someone access your account, like in the circumstances of DRD. I’d like to hear from Linden Labs. It seems really harsh. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimy Hancroft Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 5 minutes ago, rasterscan said: What the Op needs is a formal appeal process. Does such a thing exist ? I have asked them : " I would like to know the process for obtaining written consent for sharing an avatar for business purposes, as per Section 4.1 of the TOS. Best regards," they answered in short Unfortunately, as I stated in my previous response, Support is unable to provide this permission you've requested and there is not currently a way to obtain this consent. Please note that if we receive notification of this or other accounts being shared/transferred in the future, they may be subject to future action up to, and including, termination. 3 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animats Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 20 minutes ago, Jaimy Hancroft said: Good idea indeed, where is this meeting ? Click on the link for the SL calendar. It's at Linden Estate Services, 2 PM, today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gihn Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 This is saddening. Especially considering the long history of DRD making SL a cooler place since forever ! But this issue has also given us the opportunity to discuss the lack of special amenities available for creators who have established business on sl. I sincerely hope LL would find a way to establish business accounts or at least give special status to such accounts who do considerable business on sl. Being able to share accounts would be a great feature to start with. Maybe this could be asked as a proper feature on the Second Life Feedback ? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecla Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 4 minutes ago, Jaimy Hancroft said: they answered in short Unfortunately, as I stated in my previous response, Support is unable to provide this permission you've requested and there is not currently a way to obtain this consent. Please note that if we receive notification of this or other accounts being shared/transferred in the future, they may be subject to future action up to, and including, termination. I think they're trying to plug a security hole that someone has found and so are stonewalling you. That language sounds suspiciously like it. They can't figure out how someone is getting into accounts with high balances and are locking down what they can. Just a hunch. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasterscan Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Support this feature request to help the op https://feedback.secondlife.com/feature-requests/p/allow-business-accounts-to-share-access-responsibly 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 I think there's some confusion here... https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Managing_business_projects_in_Second_Life 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tommy Linden Posted June 13 Administrators Share Posted June 13 Hey there! I wanted to take a moment and pop in to address some of the concerns that I saw come up in this thread. When it comes to account sharing, even for businesses, I understand the concern and the need for it but we also have to be able to juggle that with the security of our Residents accounts. Far too often we see what used to be a great working relationship, or personal relationship suddenly go bad and then your entire inventory is gone, all your lindens are stolen, and even charges are made to your account. Sometimes, people don't make the best decisions when they are mad at someone. I do want to note though, that this is not something we actively go looking for, but if it is something that is brought to our attention, we do need to investigate and take the appropriate actions. I noticed in the comments that it was mentioned bringing this to today's Governance Office Hours. I want to make you aware that this specific issue is not something that we will be discussing during that meeting. If you want to discuss our stance and policy on account sharing, we would be happy to do that. For privacy reasons, we are not able to discuss individual account actions in a public manner, or with anyone other than the original creator of the account outside of our support options. The best course of action moving forward to seek out ways we can improve options for content creators to manage their business would be to use the feedback portal (https://feedback.secondlife.com/), and attend other office hours more relevant to the teams that work on those aspects. 6 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimy Hancroft Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 2 minutes ago, Tommy Linden said: Hey there! I wanted to take a moment and pop in to address some of the concerns that I saw come up in this thread. When it comes to account sharing, even for businesses, I understand the concern and the need for it but we also have to be able to juggle that with the security of our Residents accounts. Far too often we see what used to be a great working relationship, or personal relationship suddenly go bad and then your entire inventory is gone, all your lindens are stolen, and even charges are made to your account. Sometimes, people don't make the best decisions when they are mad at someone. I do want to note though, that this is not something we actively go looking for, but if it is something that is brought to our attention, we do need to investigate and take the appropriate actions. I noticed in the comments that it was mentioned bringing this to today's Governance Office Hours. I want to make you aware that this particular issue is not something that we will be discussing during that meeting. For privacy reasons, we are not able to discuss individual account actions in a public manner, or with anyone other than the original creator of the account outside of our support options. The best course of action moving forward to seek out ways we can improve options for content creators to manage their business would be to use the feedback portal (https://feedback.secondlife.com/), and attend other office hours more relevant to the teams that work on those aspects. https://feedback.secondlife.com/feature-requests/p/allow-business-accounts-to-share-access-responsibly we have put it there and gotten upvoted on it fast.I do want to not that it DOES state that we can get written permission in the TOS but in my humble opinion this was a bit of an overreach: DRD was shared for ten years without a problem. My real-life sister, who lives above me, and our CSR who's been doing business on this account for over eight years. The sudden enforcement feels very much like targeting, and countless others in Second Life feel the same way. Many other businesses (Jessica chung, Meli imako) within Second Life jointly use accounts because of the impossibility of being able to run a business effectively without it due to weaknesses in the system used currently. With all due respect i thjink LL was wrong threatening termination instantly for this 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimy Hancroft Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Managing_business_projects_in_Second_Life Im assuming the wiki needs a big update then 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 @Tommy Linden Do you see the apparent LL self contradiction here? 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 3 minutes ago, Jaimy Hancroft said: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Managing_business_projects_in_Second_Life Im assuming the wiki needs a big update then Specifically, this part. They are aware of account sharing with businesses and even give you a caution to change your password when the employee no longer works for you... Again, if an employee leaves, make sure to immediately change passwords of any accounts to which they've had access. 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tommy Linden Posted June 13 Administrators Share Posted June 13 I hear you guys on the wiki page being out of date. It is on my list now to ensure that it gets reviewed, and we will make any neccessary updates. 2 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooky Shadow Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) TOS and the WIKI BOTH currently say account sharing is allowed so this is utter BS. Not the legal concern of LL what business decisions are made about stores or the money that is earned. That is a concern of creators and business choices creators make as long as all is allowed to be sold and revenue earned. eBay, for example, doesn't intrude on our business and tell us how to run it or how many people can be employed or partnered. There are law enforcement agencies and courts where business disputes and criminal actions are settled. Both LL and DnD are losing a massive amount of revenue from this too. Who is going to compensate DnD for their revenue loss? Edited June 13 by Spooky Shadow 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 minutes ago, Tommy Linden said: I hear you guys on the wiki page being out of date. It is on my list now to ensure that it gets reviewed, and we will make any neccessary updates. Tommy, do be aware that the Wayback Machine contains snapshots of that wiki page going back to 2012. Tread carefully here. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothy Absinthe Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 It does seem strange that a hold was put on this account who happens to be one of the oldest creators in second life without even a warning. If DRD has not broken any *posted* TOS then how is anyone to think this isnt targeted? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexbot Sinister Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Tommy Linden said: I hear you guys on the wiki page being out of date. It is on my list now to ensure that it gets reviewed, and we will make any neccessary updates. The wiki page is not out of date. The wiki page is fine. Thats how we have been handling business accounts for years already. Maybe *something else* is out of date, or out of touch, just a hint... Edited June 13 by Lexbot Sinister 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirly Fizzle Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 @Tommy Linden Please can you point to the TOS section that prohibts account sharing? I can't find it. 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreRae Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 9 minutes ago, Tommy Linden said: I hear you guys on the wiki page being out of date. It is on my list now to ensure that it gets reviewed, and we will make any neccessary updates. Reviewed and updated... Please take into consideration on how business accounts can be accessed. I know the code is a disaster, but can't you make something with level access? Similar to the groups or even a computer with an "admin" level and then "executive" etc that the admin would be able to give specific permissions to. And I do mean that communication with business owners to figure out what is needed is done. For instance... admin is the only one that can transfer/buy L on that account or something. Co-owners would both have to agree to a transaction of moving items or L or something. Yes, this could cause more work somewhere, but it would still be useful.. I do not run a business (yet), so I'm just throwing stuff out there. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimy Hancroft Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 32 minutes ago, Tommy Linden said: . I do want to note though, that this is not something we actively go looking for, but if it is something that is brought to our attention, we do need to investigate and take the appropriate actions. So, this was targeted to us then because plenty of bussiness in SL share accounts without any repercussions 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 12 minutes ago, Tommy Linden said: I hear you guys on the wiki page being out of date. It is on my list now to ensure that it gets reviewed, and we will make any neccessary updates. Just now, Lexbot Sinister said: The wiki page is not out of date. The wiki page is fine. Thats how we have been handling business accounts for years already. Maybe *something else* is out of date, or out of touch, just a hint... If the idea here is to remove references to jointly-held corporate accounts, then all LL has done is made running a medium- to large-sized business in SL unworkable. Obviously the first task has to be to correct the DRD situation; they were operating in good faith (and with a long and responsible record) on the basis of actual existing instructions from LL itself, so ANY punitive action that has been taken against them, including the wiping of their MP store, needs to corrected ASAP. However, LL needs to address the broader issue really pretty quickly. Removing references to (and implicit permission for) corporate accounts immediately places an awfully large number of businesses in SL in extreme jeopardy. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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