Love Zhaoying Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said: 10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Oooh. Style challenge! Except, as I'm not really so much into the manga / anime aesthetic, I might try to do something more punk (which might just end up looking goth, but we'll see). Try Visual Kei for that. I dunno how popular that is anymore (used to be huge in the 90s/Malice Mizer days), but I still adore the look. Lots of punk elements to that. Yes, I was first amazed by J-Rock by the visual kei look as originally used by L'arc~en~Ciel. But that's really not an "age thing", more a "gender bending". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 48 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: So this outfit should be safe? https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/sissy-purple-flower-doll/25823974 Yes. That dress is made for Maitreya, an adult mesh body. One would have to modify their shape quite a bit to get a Maitreya body to look a child, but they'd probably have to emote as such too. Just dressing in frilly Lolita outfits doesn't make an avatar a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Just now, Love Zhaoying said: IMO, they could be looking for "valid" concerns, and whether or not the group has a consensus "correct" understanding for how those concerns could be met. If we are "spot on" or "totally wrong" in addressing "valid" concerns, there's an opportunity for more TOS clarification. Taking the OP at "face value", they supposedly had "valid concerns" about the TOS changes. I think you are generally correct that these endless and increasingly stultifying threads on this subject are being permitted, in part at least, because LL wants to consult them with the ToS and FAQ in mind -- and we've seen changes made as a result. The "valid concerns" expressed in the OP, however, are predicated on the assumption that LL is currently doing something -- actively and monitoring chat and IMs in real time -- that they certainly have not admitted to doing (yet). And if they were doing it, and didn't want us to know, they certainly wouldn't admit it just because the OP suggests, without proof, that it's happening. "Oh darn! You caught us! Yep, we're reading everything you say in your sex emotes! And we have some grammatical advice we'd like to pass on." 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: these endless and increasingly stultifying threads on this subject are being permitted, in part at least, because LL wants ........to keep us out of SL and on the forum where it's easier to watch us... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: 12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: And lol @ "brolita"! Yes, we need much more "Himbo" and "Brolita" styles. "Would the 'Little Lord Fauntleroy' look be OK for a guy?" I think the general idea I had was, "if Lolita is 'edgy', what is the male 'direct' equivalent?" I could NOT easily find pictures of 18+ males rocking the "Little Lord" style (I did not dig too deep because cringe). Whereas, the "Lolita" style is quite popular. (Yes, I DO know the equivalent male style is out there in anime and manga, in Yaoi and Shonen Ai.) Except "laughable", "parodies" such as Angus Young and the 3 Stooges. More like "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane" than Lolita. My conclusion is, the "Lolita" look (YES I know the origin of "Lolita" DUH) "caters to perverts more" than the equivalent "male look". (I guess the "sexy young vampire look" would qualify..) But anyway, I COULD conclude that "KNOWING" that the "Lolita look" caters to perverts "more", that says something to me about those who'd want to "see" the Lolita look, vs. those who'd want to "see" the LLF look on men. (And yes - I myself in Second Life often rock the "Lord Lace" style. So there. But I'm not pretending to be some edgy "barely 18". I can't even find my old outfits on the MP anymore, which possibly supports my theory.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fauve Aeon Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 @Arielle Popstar This is a mess but I’ll take each in order and reply with my perception/opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it. Cartoon child avatars have been used for sexual gratification since SL started and though it might have been against the ToS since 2007, <snip> Meaning it could be enforced at any time and several people have related instances where it likely was enforced before these TOS changes. This isn’t the first report of this nature in SL. IMs being monitored has not been mentioned that I have heard. Then you are uninformed, the 2 week or more saving of chat logs has been in the TOS-associated documents for a long time (since at least 2011 where it is mentioned in the wiki) and afaik, still is - meaning you were informed and agreed to this when you accepted the TOS before allowed to log in on any authorized viewer. Whether you chose to read what you are agreed to is your own responsibility. What other companies do is not a concern for my SL avatar so it is immaterial. Linden Lab may adopt similar policies to other companies, for similar reasons - so it’s always good to stay informed. At this point it would be nice to hear from the Lindens if they still are keeping to a 2 week log of IM's as that is pretty significant. Has the TOS and related documentation changed to say they are NOT? Then best to assume they still are. I don't recall what I said in every IM over the last 15 years, nor do I know how an Ai could potentially join words together to implicate one in some ToS breaking infraction. It doesn't take much for an ai app to come up with some funky stuff that was not said in a bannable context. <snip> Then the other factors they consider in a case may come into play, which is also mentioned, but not outlined in a checklist of absolute parameters for obvious reasons. Additionally, frilly/lacy socks and the dress example you posted could be fine if the avatar wearing them indicates their adulthood via profile, height, shape, demeanor etc., but they also could be interpreted very differently without these indicators. If you have concerns, the ‘be smart’ rule of thumb that Oberwolf Linden offers seems a good one. Err on the side of presenting obvious adulthood and you should be fine. Choose to skate the edge and wear them on an avatar that could be perceived as underage and/or engage in a potentially provocative situation that is open to misinterpretation and it may not be fine at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 There was a conversation about this some time ago. getting back to the OP and not the derailing of the topic, Some of this might answer your questions BJ. https://lindenlab.com/privacy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: The "valid concerns" expressed in the OP, however, are predicated on the assumption that LL is currently doing something -- actively and monitoring chat and IMs in real time -- that they certainly have not admitted to doing (yet). I keep remembering reading in some thread that LL WAS planning on doing some "proactive moderation". I finally found a quote from a few people, apparently related to a video (probably the video where Brad was talking about plans). But, I did not find a text reference to what was actually said. Since the OP's reference in original post of this thread is basically out of context, if someone could find what LL DID say, that would be helpful. I don't want to go dragging those other quotes up because they don't reference what was ACTUALLY said by LL. Neither do I want to go watch a whole video just to to find 1 sentence by Brad. Edited June 7 by Love Zhaoying 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Since the OP's reference in original post of this thread is basically out of context, if someone could find what LL DID say, that would be helpful. It was discussed at the meeting. You'd have to scour through the video to find out where, or perhaps one of the SL news blogs has a full transcript. Edit: Here's Pantera''s video if you want to find it. Gotta hunt through the blue text. Edited June 7 by Ayashe Ninetails Added Stuffs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fauve Aeon Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: what is the male 'direct' equivalent?" Ouji or Aristo, or Elegant Gothic Aristocrat (EGA). Look up Mana-sama and also look at Buttcape’s blog. Think Pumpkin Pants/paned slops or in Aristo, 18th century long jackets. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: I keep remember reading in some thread that LL WAS planning on doing some "proactive moderation". I finally found a quote from a few people to a video (probably the video where Brad was talking about plans). But, I did not find a text reference to what was actually said. Since the OP's reference in original post of this thread is basically out of context, if someone could find what LL DID say, that would be helpful. I don't want to go dragging those other quotes up because they don't reference what was ACTUALLY said by LL. Neither do I want to go watch a whole video just to to find 1 sentence by Brad. Here's Inara's summary and quote of Keira's comment on that, from the Governance UG meeting Quote It was further noted that LL is currently in the process now of evaluating several different products and systems to help with proactive moderation. No specific details were made available, but it was indicated that the tools being considered “will help the team identify potential violations of the” Terms of Service or Community Standards. This drew speculation that AI tool will be used and questions asked on real-time chat monitoring. Keira responded by stating (Video: 18:42): "We are not going to discuss the specifics around the tools at this time. As more decisions are made we may be able to offer more information. Right now, we are looking at a number of different tools that have different capabilities." 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 5 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said: It was discussed at the meeting. You'd have to scour through the video to find out where, or perhaps one of the SL news blogs has a full transcript. Edit: Here's Pantera''s video if you want to find it. Gotta hunt through the blue text. Thanks, I guessed right (but had to do a lot of searching to come to that conclusion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Here's Inara's summary and quote of Keira's comment on that, from the Governance UG meeting They won't listen, they have what I like to call selective reading issues. They only read what they want and turn it into a whole thing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Here's Inara's summary and quote of Keira's comment on that, from the Governance UG meeting Quote It was further noted that LL is currently in the process now of evaluating several different products and systems to help with proactive moderation. No specific details were made available, but it was indicated that the tools being considered “will help the team identify potential violations of the” Terms of Service or Community Standards. This drew speculation that AI tool will be used and questions asked on real-time chat monitoring. Keira responded by stating (Video: 18:42): "We are not going to discuss the specifics around the tools at this time. As more decisions are made we may be able to offer more information. Right now, we are looking at a number of different tools that have different capabilities." Thanks, @Scylla Rhiadra! @BilliJo Aldrin, your original post in this thread seems to assume "proactive moderation" is already in place - but "proactive moderation" is clearly only being investigated still. Does this fact change your concerns in any way? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: They won't listen, they have what I like to call selective reading issues. They only read what they want and turn it into a whole thing. It really was a "blink and you miss it", that's why I was glad @Scylla Rhiadrafound it: to bring the discussion a LITTLE closer to what some of us call "reality". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said: it was not talked about or enforced except when they started on witch hunts. People have been banned for AP for years. It's not a new thing or a witch hunt. 1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said: So this outfit should be safe? https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/sissy-purple-flower-doll/25823974 Let's try something from this decade...Basically the same style dress I showed. Flat-chested...I was fine wearing it... https://www.flickr.com/photos/aurorayok/53740588854/in/datetaken/ 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 8 minutes ago, Fauve Aeon said: Then you are uninformed, the 2 week or more saving of chat logs has been in the TOS-associated documents for a long time (since at least 2011 where it is mentioned in the wiki) and afaik, still is - meaning you were informed and agreed to this when you accepted the TOS before allowed to log in on any authorized viewer. Whether you chose to read what you are agreed to is your own responsibility. ToS associated document? A wiki that may or may not have been superseded with new one that is also not linked to the ToS? I didn't agree to that. Whether you and others realize it or not, the faq on the policy change is still undergoing revisions and as much as much as some would like to say it is a done deal, it isn't. At this point the thread(s) may still be looked at to see what might need clarification. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 To me this post comes off very suspicious, I can't do the activities that I could once do. Since the new Linden Overreach. Like that is how I read it, but I also read it as. I have no commonsense so I am gonna make a nuisance post, and if anyone points out their illogic to it, I am gonna argue it until we are both blue in the face. So for the people who are purposefully ignorant, you can still do the same stuff if you are in an adult avatar. Just be careful how you talk or act, and don't wear a child avatar and do that stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 12 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: They won't listen, they have what I like to call selective reading issues. They only read what they want and turn it into a whole thing. Some of the questions in this thread need answering by Lindens. Neither you nor other residents know what the Labs answers are to some of them in spite of the conjecturing that you do. You're pretending to know something you don't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Just now, Arielle Popstar said: Some of the questions in this thread need answering by Lindens. Neither you nor other residents know what the Labs answers are to some of them in spite of the conjecturing that you do. You're pretending to know something you don't. like what questions need answering? But you too are acting like you know something you don't either. Lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 4 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: To me this post comes off very suspicious, I can't do the activities that I could once do. Since the new Linden Overreach. Like that is how I read it, but I also read it as. I have no commonsense so I am gonna make a nuisance post, and if anyone points out their illogic to it, I am gonna argue it until we are both blue in the face. So for the people who are purposefully ignorant, you can still do the same stuff if you are in an adult avatar. Just be careful how you talk or act, and don't wear a child avatar and do that stuff. Yep. See how hard some of us had to work to turn the discussion into something more serious? It's like "bait us to have a real discussion about something that should be obvious". OMG - They are counteragents, maybe even shills!!1!! It's all a trick!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Heartsong Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 3 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said: Over 18. Is that a Like or a Thanks? I always forget. Wait, sorry, wrong thread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Keira Linden then added: GOING FORWARD WITH THESE MONTHLY MEETINGS WE INTEND TO INCREASE RESIDENT EDUCATION AS IT PERTAINS TO ACCOUNT SECURITY, AS WELL AS BEING MORE TRANSPARENT WITH THE COMMUNITY ON ABUSE ACTIONS BY PUBLISHING SOME MEANINGFUL DATA AROUND ABUSE REPORTS. WE WILL ALSO BE REGULARLY REVIEWING AND UPDATING TRUST AND SAFETY POLICIES, PROCEDURES, AND TOOLS BASED ON EVOLVING THREATS. WHAT I MEAN BY THAT [“MEANINGFUL DATA”], IS THAT WE INTEND TO PUBLISH DATA PERTAINING TO ABUSE ISSUES AS WERE ABLE TO. It was further noted that LL is currently in the process now of evaluating several different products and systems to help with proactive moderation. No specific details were made available, but it was indicated that the tools being considered “will help the team identify potential violations of the” Terms of Service or Community Standards. This drew speculation that AI tool will be used and questions asked on real-time chat monitoring. Keira responded by stating (Video: 18:42): WE ARE NOT GOING TO DISCUSS THE SPECIFICS AROUND THE TOOLS AT THIS TIME. AS MORE DECISIONS ARE MADE WE MAY BE ABLE TO OFFER MORE INFORMATION. RIGHT NOW, WE ARE LOOKING AT A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT TOOLS THAT HAVE DIFFERENT CAPABILITIES. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Only mentioning this because it came up earlier in the thread - https://www.pcgamer.com/software/windows/microsoft-changes-course-on-the-controversial-windows-11-feature-that-constantly-takes-screenshots-of-your-pcs-screen-now-youll-have-to-opt-in-if-you-want-to-use-it/ To bring that back around to SL - companies know this IM/chat/PC monitoring stuff isn't popular and they're often fiddling with and adjusting their "tools" as a result. Chat monitoring CAN make sense in some ways, for legal/law enforcement purposes. I've seen it used during a criminal trial to score a successful conviction in a murder case (they had gotten copies of private Kik messages and used them as evidence). Buuuuut yeah, there are definitely privacy and security issues to think about. IF they decide to go that route in SL, they'll hopefully give us more info about that part, especially. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 18 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: People have been banned for AP for years. It's not a new thing or a witch hunt. It seems like that when the bannings happen in batches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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