Discuss or Comments about Child, Adult, Can't Tell Thread

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

Well, if they ARE engaged in AP then obviously a ban?  Pretty sure most would agree with that

Oh, I totally agree with that. But I just want to hear what she would do. How she would tackle this, if she A suspected a person who had a youthful look coming in and B how would she make it far easier to distinguish child avatar and adult avatar? 

[Kathlen Onyx]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Also, this was for something separate. And I mean I got enough from what you said. I didn't leave you hanging or whatever. I asked, you answered. If you wanted to continue, you could have taken the initiative and asked me questions or stated your opinions on it. Like if you felt I did that, there is a simple solution to solve it. 

Well then you need some IM etiquette. The last thing I typed you just didn't respond to. Normally people say things like...thanks! I need to run but thanks for chatting.  I didn't realize you were just fishing for information. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Kathlen Onyx said:

Well then you need some IM etiquette. The last thing I typed you just didn't respond to. Normally people say things like...thanks! I need to run but thanks for chatting.  I didn't realize you were just fishing for information. 

I mean if I didn't say anything, you could have also asked if we were done or if I had further questions. And I don't think I was fishing for info. Just wanted to hear your perspective. As I said before, if you felt that. You could have reached out and asked me if we were done here, or if I had anymore questions. Don't put this all on me. 

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Oh, I totally agree with that. But I just want to hear what she would do. How she would tackle this, if she A suspected a person who had a youthful look coming in and B how would she make it far easier to distinguish child avatar and adult avatar? 

Not one single person, not even LL, can answer this question.  There is no EASY way which is why this thread exists.  Each person sees things differently in respect to age

Edited May 14 by Rowan Amore

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I know it FEELS like derailing, however IMO as evidenced by the "Child or not?" thread, what clothing one uses is a factor in how the age is guessed.

This is very true. I absolutely agree with Kathlen that if one is shopping purely what's popular, they could potentially fall into a younger age range. It really does depend on the outfit, but yeah. I can't shop most of what's "hot" these days. No chance. Just don't like the style.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

Not one single person, not even LL, can answer this question.  There is no EASY way which I why this thread exists.  Each person sees things differently in respect to age

All I was asking, was for her perspective on this. I don't think it's that hard to give her own perspective, on what should be done. 

[Arielle Popstar]

9 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Okay then. But you keep on putting down ideas, and not offering any sort of suggestions. 

What I been getting from the postings of certain posters is to AR their little butts, and hope there is IM logs to prove their a*eplaying guilt.

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

What I been getting from the postings of certain posters is to AR their little butts, and hope there is IM logs to prove their a*eplaying guilt.

OH please do quote where people insinuated this and not just say it and let it lie there.

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Kathlen Onyx said:

OH please do quote where people insinuated this and not just say it and let it lie there.

I didn't state your name and in fact in one post you assured me you had never AR'ed anyone. So assumed you're talking hypothetical or suggesting advice for others to follow?

[Monika Skydancer]

28 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

No but if one has to look and dress to appear safely over 18 then best to shoot for that age and wind up appearing around 25.

Why? Safely over 18 means 18 & one day. I reckon my avi looks early to mid 20s, which is what I was shooting for, & I ain't even slightly worried about getting ARd.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Monika Skydancer said:

Why? Safely over 18 means 18 & one day. I reckon my avi looks early to mid 20s, which is what I was shooting for, & I ain't even slightly worried about getting ARd.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt in my ratings of your look but I could easily imagine highschool aged persons sporting the look and have in fact in my memories of high school.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Monika Skydancer said:

Why? Safely over 18 means 18 & one day.

Different people will judge "18" differently. Different people will judge "18 & one day" differently.

So, neither one seem "safe" when I look at it that way.

I'm not arguing, just trying to provide you with a different perspective. 

If some ages seem "just barely 18", or "18 and one day", then people will leave that "confused" reaction or even error on the side of "younger".

[Dorientje Woller]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I gave you the benefit of the doubt in my ratings of your look but I could easily imagine highschool aged persons sporting the look and have in fact in my memories of high school.

And no one can do twice the same year in high school?

[Monika Skydancer]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I gave you the benefit of the doubt in my ratings of your look but I could easily imagine highschool aged persons sporting the look and have in fact in my memories of high school.

Yeah but we both know if LL see an avi that looks like she's probably early 20s but might be a high school junior that raided big sister's wardrobe, they ain't gonna care.

My avi has a petite but fully adult shape, extensive ink & is guaranteed 100% free of cutesy nose Band-Aids. Chance of LL deciding I'm presenting as under 18? That's a big fat zero.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

Business idea: Goth Club for kids!

[Love Zhaoying]

29 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said:

And no one can do twice the same year in high school?

 

[Rowan Amore]

43 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

What I been getting from the postings of certain posters is to AR their little butts, and hope there is IM logs to prove their a*eplaying guilt.

Not what I would do at all.  What I mention is what COULD happen if someone were to AR them.  

[Alwin Alcott]

4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

he was not at all aware of the new ToS changes. That seemed to be the case for many in that club as there were a lot of edge cases.

but...not aware of the new TOS?... on what he did click "accept" before the login somewhere in the past week?

cant hide in innocence because they didn't read.

[Blush Bravin]

52 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Oh, I totally agree with that. But I just want to hear what she would do. How she would tackle this, if she A suspected a person who had a youthful look coming in and B how would she make it far easier to distinguish child avatar and adult avatar? 

 

51 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Well then you need some IM etiquette. The last thing I typed you just didn't respond to. Normally people say things like...thanks! I need to run but thanks for chatting.  I didn't realize you were just fishing for information. 

Up to now and a few of the posts following these two, we've done a really good job of staying on topic and not getting into what could be perceived as personal attacks. 

Please keep this thread free of these things. I think this thread has been very helpful to me, and I'd hate to see it get derailed.

Edited May 14 by Blush Bravin

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Blush Bravin said:

not getting into what could be perceived as personal attacks. 

Unfortunately, there are also examples where people seem very offended that others judge them as younger than they expected. I think that's sad, since it's the point of the thread, and others are just giving valuable (and hopefully honest) feedback.

 

[Bree Giffen]

To everyone who has looked at the other thread related to this one and has voted on what looks underage the question should be:

What made you decide an avatar looked underage? Clothing? Environment? Body proportions? Face? Hair? Something else? 

Clothing is not that important to me. I would not change my mind on an obvious underage avatar or obvious adult avatar if they wore clothing of the opposite age. However, for an edge case, the choice of clothing might indicate to me which side of 18 they are trying to be. I suppose a majority of those reported would be because they lack clothing.

Environment isn't a factor in the examples I've seen but they would be important to LL.

Body proportions are a big factor. I look at the height in terms of how many head sizes.  Even if they are the same height, a person who is only 5 heads high looks more childlike than a person who is 7 heads high. There are also all the proportion rules you see in artbooks and biology courses that tell us how to determine maturity. 

The face and facial proportions are also very important. Humans are keenly aware of facial features as they are the best way to identify others. There is also a whole set of proportion rules on faces to tell the difference in age. 

Hair is like clothing. It's not that important but it helps when looking at an edge case.

Everything needs to be taken into account. An obvious  little boy with a beard is still going to be thought of as a little boy. A weird boy. A little girl with a beard will be thought of as a little boy, never questioned and not weird at all. 

Edited May 14 by Bree Giffen

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Bree Giffen said:

To everyone who has looked at the other thread related to this one and has voted on what looks underage the question should be:

What made you decide an avatar looked underage? Clothing? Environment? Body proportions? Face? Hair? Something else? 

I gave an exhaustive explanation to @Blush Bravin. I would not be able to do that for everyone, it would be far too much trouble, and seem way too pedantic.

My own initial question was, the meaning of "based on appearance alone".  I boldly assumed it is the "whole package" that makes someone seem "young": body shape, head shape, face, height, skin, clothing, hair, poise, etc. No ONE thing was the "only" thing unless the avatar was "obviously" a child.

Sometimes, I think back on a couple pictures where "the hair" made a big difference.  (I won't go into details; it's not the "pigtails" examples.)  Based on that experience, I hope that the Governance team gives clear guidelines to their reviewers, and makes some smart decisions such as actually EXCLUDING certain aspects from review.

The best example I can give, is one I keep thinking about - again, the hair.  In this example, if Governance comes to the conclusion that "hair can be the deal maker/breaker", then it would make sense if they "exclude" hair and tell their reviewers, "don't look at the hair".  How? This could be as simple as, "cover the avatar's hair on the screen, with your thumb THEN look at the picture."

Sounds silly, I know - but it's a serious thought I've been having and finally committed to writing.

 

[Rowan Amore]

With this one and the previous one, the lighting is making the avatar appear older than I think it might look in a less shadowy lighting.  Are those wrinkles on the forehead?  

1 hour ago, Sprout Evergarden said:

as an experiment put my Same exact avatar in a different dress and hair style.

 

[Codex Alpha]

Let's go another 1000 posts. Second Life Forumers still can't tell what a child is or what an adult is. Those who read the TOS and the Child Avatar Policy (which I'm done linking to because people clearly REFUSE to read it) will have no problem.

This is mainly about very young child avatars 1-14, those before maturity and before curves and breasts develop (that creates the edge cases) - as clearly stated in the Policy

"The entire presentation will be considered, for example in addition to other characteristics, are you saying "Hey Mommy can I pweez have ceewee-ull? Pweeze Mommy?"

Look forward to more confused and deluded paranoid posts on this issue.

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

With this one and the previous one, the lighting is making the avatar appear older than I think it might look in a less shadowy lighting.  Are those wrinkles on the forehead?  

 

Omgoodness hahaha, not a child! All i see is boobs! And you won't get banned over an Environmental Light setting HAHAHAHH

Edited May 14 by Codex Alpha

[Dorientje Woller]

16 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

The face and facial proportions are also very important. Humans are keenly aware of facial features as they are the best way to identify others. There is also a whole set of proportion rules on faces to tell the difference in age. 

As creator of shapes, I need to take the limitation of the mesh, especially for heads, in mind and how they react on the sliders. Nothing as worse to see that teeth or eyes are clipping with the lips or eyelids. Then there is the issue of the skin itself, mostly the brand. Velour tones are mostly youthfull and shiney. Only a few do make mature skin layers.

Edited May 14 by Dorientje Woller