Discuss or Comments about Child, Adult, Can't Tell Thread

[brodiac90]

6 minutes ago, SlammedSam said:

The other one.

Maybe it's the face? It is very smooth and rounded. Summer dresses tend you make people look more youthful too. 

Edited May 13 by brodiac90

[Marianne Little]

The darker the hair is, the older I look?

I replaced the hair with one that's a bit less cute and added a lipstick.

Else, it is identical to the picture with bows. Same skin, freckles and blush. The brows is tinted darker in the last image.

The skin is this one: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/PROMO-ab-Lottie-LeLu-Evo-X-DEMO/24507293

@keira linden had hair with butterfly clips in a meeting, but with dark hair.

It may sound like I split hairs here, (literally) but I really hope that if LL is not sure if an avatar is 17 or 18, they judge in favor of 18. That the evidence is insuficcient to state the avatar is under 18.

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, brodiac90 said:

Maybe it's the face? It is very smooth and rounded. Summer dresses tend you make people look more youthful too. 

so we can’t have a smooth round face and wear summer dresses, lest we be accused of being under age?

She looks fine to me 😁

[BilliJo Aldrin]

6 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I tend to agree with this, they are understaffed and under pressure to fix a problem that for all intents and purposes, they can't.

What I find most problematic is that with a single act, they seem to routinely disconnect people from their SL because they didn't know the rules, didn't think they were breaking them, step by step built an avatar that when all combined it didn't pass or just straight up made a crappy avatar and failed the landing.

I am not a trained therapist, suicide or crisis counselor.

Yet this responsibility has been dropped in my lap more times than I am comfortable recounting. Gov have torched accounts of friends and I have had to watch them spin off the rails as a result. The 'banned and handling it badly' end up on reddit & reaching out on discord, because they are banned from here! Cut off from their entire social graph, loved ones and support networks... the few people who really get SL, kinda get sucked in and invested.

Sure there are bad actors who are here to intentionally use the platform in harmful ways. But a perma-ban doesn't stop them. They are right back and we all know it. For those, the first ban stings and then it turns to anger and defiance, then they're back with a copy bot, they aren't shopping, the only investment is sticking it to LL. This whole mess becomes a game.

Ever escalating suspensions would be a far more effective punishment. Every suspension double the one before. Let them come back, account as they left it, purge only contraband, avatar reset to something from the library. Let them keep their investment. Let them run into the wall till the size of the next ban is more then they can stand, everyone has a limit. And so long as they can be lured into this game, they aren't undermining the actual platform.

This also ticks the box of justice being seen to be done.

We all like to moan - "I don't wanna get banned again" is a pretty solid whine, makes the actions of governance visible without LL needing to breach anyone's privacy AND educates!

When you get permbanned, you have nothing left to lose, so why not create a new account, connect with your friends, and carry on. Don’t spend another penny of course, but you can make an attractive avi for free

Edited May 13 by BilliJo Aldrin
fixed a word

[brodiac90]

4 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

so we can’t have a smooth round face and wear summer dresses, lest we be accused of being under age?

She looks fine to me 😁

I'm not saying you can't, I'm saying those might have been what led to the unsure reactions. My opinion doesn't matter anyway as I won't be on adult sims to see. 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

When you get permbanned, you have nothing left to lose, so why not create a new account, connect with your friends, and carry on. Don’t spend another penny of course, but you can make an attractive avi for free

Heck, then just "live in the moment", do whatever you like!

It's all down to "taking personal responsibility". 

[Love Zhaoying]

Do we need to stop saying "Sweet summer child" to people (patronizingly)?

It implies we think the person is a child, and also - calling them "sweet" is kind of creepy.

 

[Codex Alpha]

8 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

So, you're making fun of people who think they will get banned just for wearing diapers? If so, I agree those users' concerns are not based in fact. 

Of course I am, and more. I've been pretty consistent posting laughing emojis on posts I find absolutely ludicrous posting non-child avatars worried they will get banned.

Though I wouldn't say ALL of them are safe, because if there is any concern, it will be taken as a whole, as described in the TOS and Policy, that I have quoted over and over and over and over and over and over again - yet some people still can't 'interpret' the language used. So I go from SMH to just LOL at the absurdity of it all.

If we see @brodiac90 's posts, his child avatars would be the 'presentation' that would receive the most concern and governance if they continue to operate in Adult areas, or engage in certain behaviours.  I am not addressing @brodiac90 personally, but the 'representations' he has posted.

Those type of avatars and their average age of 8-12 years old is the main concern, and the users of some of those - personalities known both on SL, Sansar, VRChat and other platforms they have groups on and "Goonies"-style communities, 50 year olds creating worlds and products geared for children of that age - who have got wrapped up in these types of scandals are of most concern.

I also understand 'subjectivity', I take in 'nuance', 'context', 'behaviour' , 'appearance' and if I was on LL staff doing this job it wouldn't really be that hard to apply reasonable and fair judgement on these matters.

I also understand and can imagine the fear of those already operating 'on the edge' with these things will have concerns. Oh well, tighten up your act then. "When in doubt, refrain from actions you're worried about" says LL. If they can't use their own judgement to guide their activities, or they have some alternate 'interpretation' of the English language different from the majority (and is clearly defined in dictionaries) - then I guess they're gonna have problems huh. That's their issue. Meanwhile I will laugh.

Right or wrong, that's my opinion, even the title "Child, Adult, Can't Tell" made me laugh, for me it's more cut and dry (with room for movement)

[Blush Bravin]

1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

The darker the hair is, the older I look?

I replaced the hair with one that's a bit less cute and added a lipstick.

Else, it is identical to the picture with bows. Same skin, freckles and blush. The brows is tinted darker in the last image.

The skin is this one: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/PROMO-ab-Lottie-LeLu-Evo-X-DEMO/24507293

@keira linden had hair with butterfly clips in a meeting, but with dark hair.

It may sound like I split hairs here, (literally) but I really hope that if LL is not sure if an avatar is 17 or 18, they judge in favor of 18. That the evidence is insuficcient to state the avatar is under 18.

 

To me you look like at least 18+ in your pics in the Child, Adult, Can't Tell thread. Honestly, you look more 25+ to me. I am beginning to wonder, if it's possibly the naturally younger looking redhead's complexion, isn't part of the problem. Redheads tend to be very light skinned with freckles (not always) which some might associate with youthfulness. The dark circles, slight impression of laugh lines, and your hollow cheeks age you significantly past the questionable range, IMO.

 

[Blush Bravin]

20 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Do we need to stop saying "Sweet summer child" to people (patronizingly)?

It implies we think the person is a child, and also - calling them "sweet" is kind of creepy.

 

"Sweet, summer child" implies that you think the person is as naive as a child, not that they look like a child.  

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

"Sweet, summer child" implies that you think the person is as naive as a child, not that they look like a child.  

It's all so confusing! (Roleplay vs. "looks" vs. "acting like a child" i.e. "childish" vs. the adult versions)

Please don't take me literally and explain it - I meant, on the surface, for someone just entering the entire discussion, they may need everything defined.  Context is important 🙂 

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

6 hours ago, ValKalAstra said:

Slightly off topic but that is also the precise scene where I gained a lot of respect for Yakuza: Like a dragon. It's a game full of funny and over the top hijinks mixed with moments of genuine heart, care and emotion. Even the protagonist Ichiban is such a lovable nerdy goofball that he canonically imagines combat like his favourite JRPG video games.

And then you enter that room and see those burly gangsters in diapers and yah. It's hard to not think this is another funny hijink until the game more or less goes: Why are you laughing? What's so funny? It then goes and teaches you what it is about, turning what could have been a joke into a weirdly wholesome moment.

In a game about gangsters throwing bikes, pigeons and orbital laser cannons at each other!

It is, to bring it circling back on topic, a good lesson on judging things too quickly which perhaps is what folks are afraid of. Once I'm back home I'll go through the newer pics too and again, if wanted, hit me with that IM or an @

Absolutely all of this. As bizarre as it sounds, I marvel at just how absolutely wholesome that series is. No spoilers, but if you play (or watch) Infinite Wealth, btw, the diaper gang has one of the most beautiful side stories in the entire game. Straight up tears. Just wow.

 

6 hours ago, ValKalAstra said:

It is, to bring it circling back on topic, a good lesson on judging things too quickly which perhaps is what folks are afraid of.

This is a lesson I learned very, very long ago in my late teens. As a "too curious for my own good" sort, I spent a lot of time after high school graduation reading about fetishes. The curiosity probably started with listening to Dr. Judy's love/sex/relationship advice show on the radio every night for a few years prior (and later reading her book), LOL. Lots of fringe cases there. I learned a lot of rare things through both that and a bunch of shameless Internet research and by the time I got to SL, there was very, very little I didn't already know about. By that point, I'd been hanging out in adult communities and social media sites for years anyhow.

Nothing ever bothered me or shocked me enough to consider an AR - even the more extreme things I ran across. By that point, I'd already adopted the "not mah business" approach. I don't have to involve myself in anything if I don't want to and nothing they do affects my real (or Second) life whatsoever. Leave em be.

With the new rules, I do think some will need to be more careful (though I truly don't believe "do I look 17 or 18" will be as big of a deal here - that'd take a lot of effort and resources to investigate as opposed to something far more obvious) as I'm well aware a lot of the platform is not as "yolowhatever" as I am these days, but such is life.

That's mostly why I'm not participating in the photo thread on the voting side. My vote would be too skewed through a combination of that experience plus knowing far too well what head/body/skin/clothing trends are popular here (shopaholic), and what looks get the most attention, following, and hype (on Flickr especially). It's very "in" to wear very young-looking avatars and has been for a long time. It'll be interesting to see if that trend eventually shifts.

 

3 hours ago, Rick Nightingale said:

I would love to be a fly on the wall (an adult one of course) in some of their meetings about it. If it was run by the sort of people I used to work with, it would be hilarious.

Looool. I know. Imagine the pamphlets and diagrams.  😂

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

This is a lesson I learned very, very long ago in my late teens. As a "too curious for my own good" sort, I spent a lot of time after high school graduation reading about fetishes.

😜 .. "reading", good cover.

4 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

With the new rules, I do think some will need to be more careful (though I truly don't believe "do I look 17 or 18" will be as big of a deal here - that'd take a lot of effort and resources to investigate as opposed to something far more obvious) as I'm well aware a lot of the platform is not as "yolowhatever" as I am these days, but such is life.

There are always those who feel the need to police others happily doing their thing without causing a shred of harm (and no, I'm not including the sexualization of minors in that), my fear is these new rules broaden the tool box of these people, who are often not adverse to weapoizing or threatening others with their new big stick.

There may well be an uptick in reports.

There will be an uptick in coercion and manipulation, and that doesn't need to happen where Linden can see it.

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

There will be an uptick in coercion and manipulation

But "we're all adults here".    Maybe they like being coerced into banned behavior.  Perhaps we should allow that?   They made me do it! as a viable defense?    Seriously?

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

But "we're all adults here".    Maybe they like being coerced into banned behavior.  Perhaps we should allow that?   They made me do it! as a viable defense?    Seriously?

Forum games ... take this thing from one discussion, strip it of context, use it to attack in another. 👍

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

Forum games ... take this thing from one discussion, strip it of context, use it to attack in another. 👍

How exactly is it any different than what you were talking about in the other thread?  Explain that to me.  Someone likes to be objectified.  Let them be as they're an adult and maybe enjoy that.    Someone likes being coerced.  Does that include being coerced into banned activities?  Whether you think it's the same or not, the underlying premise is the same.  

[Chery Amore]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

The darker the hair is, the older I look?

I replaced the hair with one that's a bit less cute and added a lipstick.

Else, it is identical to the picture with bows. Same skin, freckles and blush. The brows is tinted darker in the last image.

The skin is this one: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/PROMO-ab-Lottie-LeLu-Evo-X-DEMO/24507293

@keira linden had hair with butterfly clips in a meeting, but with dark hair.

It may sound like I split hairs here, (literally) but I really hope that if LL is not sure if an avatar is 17 or 18, they judge in favor of 18. That the evidence is insuficcient to state the avatar is under 18.

 

I rated your pigtail look as a teen also. Really it was just the face/hair combo more than anything.  The body for sure looked like it could be adult .. or could be a teens. 

I think most people do what I do. Mind our own business for people who might look on the edge. If I were running an adult venue I'd have to look at your pigtailed girl and frankly I'd probably just tell you your pigtails make you look to young.. Especially if your profile was blank or indicated you were not a teen.  Especially after the new rules really. 

I think more people are kind than not unless met with hostility.  Then if you have the power to punt .. you just do it.

Edited May 13 by Chery Amore
really messed up sentence.. need coffee

[Coffee Pancake]

22 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Someone likes being coerced.  Does that include being coerced into banned activities?  Whether you think it's the same or not, the underlying premise is the same.  

Not without the strawman you invented and snuck in there.

[Chery Amore]

3 hours ago, brodiac90 said:

Maybe it's the face? It is very smooth and rounded. Summer dresses tend you make people look more youthful too. 

I rated her an adult... and it was because of the dress. No modern teen would be wearing that dress. Otherwise I'd refer to her profile if I were curious or just mind my own business.

Edited May 13 by Chery Amore

[Ayashe Ninetails]

44 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

😜 .. "reading", good cover.

Lol, I'm 100% serious. I browsed and binged websites and braved all kinds of dodgy links looking for more up-to-date and "lived" experience and information than I was finding in books on the subject. And boy did I find it. I joined social/dating sites after that to meet real people instead of just learning about them through their "okay guys, so here's my women in headphones photo collection..." fan sites. 😂

 

44 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

There are always those who feel the need to police others happily doing their thing without causing a shred of harm (and no, I'm not including the sexualization of minors in that), my fear is these new rules broaden the tool box of these people, who are often not adverse to weapoizing or threatening others with their new big stick.

There may well be an uptick in reports.

There will be an uptick in coercion and manipulation, and that doesn't need to happen where Linden can see it.

I very much agree with you on this, and I have certainly seen it both in SL and in the real world. I've gone shopping with a man who loved drag (RL) and saw how the store associates treated him. I dated a guy who wore long skirts (goth/rocker) and heard everything people were saying behind our backs when out in public. I've known (and still know) people who were/are closeted in RL but are fully able to live their lives in SL and I understand the challenges they face just trying to get through a day. It sucks, and I wish more knew how to mind their own dang business, except in cases of real, actual danger and harm.

Obnoxiously, when you DO see things like that, very few seem to want to act, but hey, someone doing something I'm unfamiliar with - time to get involved!

Edited May 13 by Ayashe Ninetails
Fixing Stuffs

[Persephone Emerald]

15 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

I marked it as a.child because that looked like a diaper with a baby cow on the front.

15 hours ago, taya Maruti said:

thats part of the point of this specific outfit, i don't want to poison peoples decisions with comments on it athis time though so i am going to hold comments about the ideology that a diaper is exclusivly for children till a while out.

I marked confused because I can't tell what this avatar is supposed to be. It looks like part dog, part cow, part human, with adult human breasts and a diaper. Is the diaper a modesty covering for udders or a signal for ag*play? Why are the upper breasts not covered? I'd AR this avatar if I saw it on General land. I don't know if it's supposed to be a trolling avatar or is just chaotic and frankly, ugly.

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

16 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

I marked it as a.child because that looked like a diaper with a baby cow on the front.

15 hours ago, taya Maruti said:

thats part of the point of this specific outfit, i don't want to poison peoples decisions with comments on it athis time though so i am going to hold comments about the ideology that a diaper is exclusivly for children till a while out.

I marked confused because I can't tell what this avatar is supposed to be. It looks like part dog, part cow, part human, with adult human breasts and a diaper. Is the diaper a modesty covering for udders or a signal for ag*play? Why are the upper breasts not covered? I'd AR this avatar if I saw it on General land. I don't know if it's supposed to be a trolling avatar or is just chaotic and frankly, ugly.

The only things that threw me off about that avatar was the human breasts and the bushy tail.

I figured the diaper was covering "udders" down below!

Maybe it's a child because it's supposed to be "cute"? 

[sirhc DeSantis]

Fasinating. Well if you can't fit your caboose through a 2m25 door I class you as a combat vehicle

[Blush Bravin]

@taya MarutiFor the most part I respond with confused on furries. I guess your avie is a furry. Honestly, the more I read this past weekend the more I got confused, but the diaper added to my confusion. 

Until this weekend I'd never heard of a fetish of adults wearing diapers. So, that also probably affected my judgement. My experience with adults wearing diapers have always had them under their clothes. Lots of senior citizens use Depends.  

Edited May 13 by Blush Bravin

[Coffee Pancake]

38 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Obnoxiously, when you DO see things like that, very few seem to want to act, but hey, someone doing something I'm unfamiliar with - time to get involved!

Beaten by a gang and left for dead!

People stood and watched.

Today, they would stand and film.