Will The New TOS on Child Avatars Ensnare Short Adults?

[stlshayne]

This aint't a rollercoaster. There is no "you must be this tall to not be ARd."

[Kathlen Onyx]

6 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

3. The sorts of accessories they have or are wearing - children are more likely to be holding things like toys, teddy bears, games, candy and anything else usually associated with children. 

Well this certainly isn't true at all. Just the other day I was at a club where we, adults, were having a PJ party.  We ALL were holding candy and teddy bears because it was a theme party. Just yesterday this same club had a theme because it was Teacher Appreciation day. A lot of women were dressed in short plaid skirts with a shirt and tie. Normally what a child would wear to school  

My point is each and every  situation is different and if someone wants a definite answer they aren't going to get it.

[MoiraKathleen]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I've not seen a clarification if under 18 avatars are allowed on A rated sims or not, obviously child avatars are banned, but no mention of say 17 year olds.

I'm short, sometimes I wear a young hair style, young looking clothes, sneakers, will all these combined cause someone to say, "oh no a child avi on adult land" when I tp home.. "AR them"?

I would expect that if an avi was presenting as 16 or 17 years old that they would not be allowed on A rated regions, because they are presenting as younger than 18 - so a child. 

Even before the TOS changes, an avatar presenting as younger than 18 was not allowed to be involved in sexual situations.  If you think that because of your height and the way you sometimes dress, that your avi may be seen as being under 18, then the danger of being reported for under-age sexual activity has always been a risk for you,  prior to the latest TOS changes. 

I would think that if, prior to the TOS changes, you've been able to visit A rated regions where there was sexual activities taking place and you were not questioned, sent home or banned by the land owner, than you probably are being seen as an adult, even with your avi's short stature.   

[Arielle Popstar]

12 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Don't bother. She already KNOWS all this.  It's just a way to continue the other thread because it was locked.

I think she has a valid concern. With the lab relying on the discretionary opinions of other residents, it leaves the reporting to be somewhat ambiguous. There are people in the forum who in stating their opinions show an obvious bias or prejudice that will reflect on the type of people they choose to report.

Edited May 9 by Arielle Popstar

[Kathlen Onyx]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

I think she has a valid concern. With the lab relying on the discretionary opinions of other residents, it leaves the reporting to be someone ambiguous. There are people in the forum who in stating their opinions show an obvious bias or prejudice that will reflect on the type of people they choose to report.

I could report you all day long and if you are not breaking the TOS nothing will happen. If for some reason LL does ban you due to an AR then you obviously were not doing what you were supposed to be doing thus breaking the TOS. It's pretty simple really.

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Kathlen Onyx said:

I could report you all day long and if you are not breaking the TOS nothing will happen. If for some reason LL does ban you due to an AR then you obviously were not doing what you were supposed to be doing thus breaking the TOS. It's pretty simple really.

And I find that very concerning, because then what you're showing is even if you just don't like someone you'll report them on the hope that the lab will find something bad about the person you reported. The way it is right now is too open to abuse.

[Kathlen Onyx]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

And I find that very concerning, because then what you're showing is even if you just don't like someone you'll report them on the hope that the lab will find something bad about the person you reported. The way it is right now is too open to abuse.

Just so you don't get it twisted I use "I" as an example. I've never reported anyone for anything and I doubt I'll start now.

However, the system was open to abuse before the new TOS on Child Avi's was implemented. Someone could report someone before, and I'm sure they did, because they didn't like them.  Again, if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.

Also, if you are so afraid of LL why are you even on the platform to begin with?

[Sid Nagy]

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

And I find that very concerning, because then what you're showing is even if you just don't like someone you'll report them on the hope that the lab will find something bad about the person you reported. The way it is right now is too open to abuse.

Abusing the AR filing system with an endless stream of AR's could easily backfire to the person posting them too. I don't think LL is really happy with people who put in AR's several times a day, week, month.
There might be a line or two in the TOS that gives the Lab power to stop this adequately. (And no, I ain't gonna look them up for you. )

Edited May 9 by Sid Nagy
Small text improvements.

[Theresa Tennyson]

Theresa Tennyson's neighbors are startled by hearing muffled yellling coming from her bathroom. They can't be sure, but it sounds sort of like, "Look, nobody cares about your glowy-headed... GRRRAAAHHHHH!!!!!"

[Dorientje Woller]

As mentioned in an other topic, the windlight settings of the person that files the AR makes a big difference in how you see an avatar. The AR system makes a picture in Midday settings only. That picture should be in the windlight setting of the AR'er and mentioned in the report.

Below 2 pics of the same avie, 1st one under Midday Normal, the 2nd under Midday Legacy.

Edited May 9 by Dorientje Woller

[Arielle Popstar]

20 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Just so you don't get it twisted I use "I" as an example. I've never reported anyone for anything and I doubt I'll start now.

However, the system was open to abuse before the new TOS on Child Avi's was implemented. Someone could report someone before, and I'm sure they did, because they didn't like them.  Again, if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.

Also, if you are so afraid of LL why are you even on the platform to begin with?

Less concern about the Lab then about loose cannon Residents who choose to report others because they don't like something about another or their advances were rejected. I have experienced abuse from some males over the years because they didn't like that I chose not to play with them. Threatened reporting me for one thing or another or just generally. When there is not clear cut directions from Governance about what they consider to be platform infractions, that can be be worrying. Just in these threads alone I have now heard of several situations which can be a cause for being banned that I didn't know about. They are not clearly stated in the ToS and though they were things I wouldn't do, the fact they are offences not spelled out is can be a cause for worry if they happen to start doing some investigation into areas I don't even know they had access to.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

29 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Abusing the AR filing system with an endless stream of AR's could easily backfire to the person posting them too. I don't think LL is really happy with people who put in AR's several times a day, week, month.
There might be a line or two in the TOS that gives the Lab power to stop this adequately. (And no, I ain't gonna look them up for you. )

Yes see? Even after the amount of years you been here as a store owner you're stating "there might be". How much more so for those who are not regularly into the forums or follow the ins and outs of the Lab's policies?

[Sid Nagy]

I ain't gonna discuss my English skills (or the lack of it) here.
It is perfectly clear what I meant.

Edited May 9 by Sid Nagy

[Phil Deakins]

23 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

I don't think LL is really happy with people who put in AR's several times a day, week, month.

Just a little aside here:

Many years ago, a landowner had a building that was encroaching on my land. I ARed it from time to time but nothing was done. Governance ignored my ARs, even though I, a paying customer, was being denied the use of some of the land I was paying for. So I increased the frequency of ARs, telling them that I was going to shorten the time betwen ARs until they dealt with it. I ARed daily, then multiple times a day, and it was when I got down to ARing every hour, still telling them that I would keep shortening the time between ARs until it was dealt with, that the building got removed. I don't know if they here happy or not with what I was doing, but the squeaky wheel was successful in the end.

Back then, the governance team didn't seem to care about paying customers. Dunno about now though.

Edited May 10 by Phil Deakins

[Kathlen Onyx]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Less concern about the Lab then about loose cannon Residents who choose to report others because they don't like something about another or their advances were rejected. I have experienced abuse from some males over the years because they didn't like that I chose not to play with them. Threatened reporting me for one thing or another or just generally. When there is not clear cut directions from Governance about what they consider to be platform infractions, that can be be worrying. Just in these threads alone I have now heard of several situations which can be a cause for being banned that I didn't know about. They are not clearly stated in the ToS and though they were things I wouldn't do, the fact they are offences not spelled out is can be a cause for worry if they happen to start doing some investigation into areas I don't even know they had access to.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

We all know of the new war on child avatars, but any avatar under 18 will eventually be included,

from the TOS:

---------------------------------

Q: How do you define a child avatar?

A: We are relying on the community to use their best judgment to determine if they are using a child avatar or not. Creating a list of specifications for something like this can be a slippery slope, and we certainly don’t want to give out directions on how to circumvent any policies. If a reasonable person would look at the features of your avatar and consider it underage, we would recommend not engaging in adult activities on that account. Apart from considering the avatar's appearance, the team considers various other factors, such as the purpose for which the avatar is being used.

As mentioned in other Q&As, general physical characteristics that apply to adults as well as children such as avatar height, being of slim or petite build, gender identity (such as non-binary or gender non-conforming), or ethnicity are not sole or intrinsic qualities that might qualify an avatar as a child avatar.

-------------------------

I am 5 ft 5 inches tall, fully adult, have always represented myself as an adult and yet, i'm concerned.

I've not seen a clarification if under 18 avatars are allowed on A rated sims or not, obviously child avatars are banned, but no mention of say 17 year olds.

I'm short, sometimes I wear a young hair style, young looking clothes, sneakers, will all these combined cause someone to say, "oh no a child avi on adult land" when I tp home.. "AR them"?

They say height is not the determining factor, but I say it is.

If I wore the exact same outfit but was 7 ft tall, they wouldn't touch me, obviously an adult... but short... well AR them and see right?

I'm afraid the war on child avis will eventually encompass short adults, and every time you log in, you will run the risk of being ARed

No.

[Sid Nagy]

1 minute ago, Phil Deakins said:

Just a little aside here:

Many years ago, a landowner had a building that was encroaching on my land. I ARed it from time to time but nothing was done. Governance ignored my ARs, even though I, a paying customer, was being denied the use of some of the land I was paying for. So I increased the frequency of ARs, telling them that I was going to it shorten the time betwen ARs until they dealt with it. I ARed daily, then multiple times a day, and it was when I got down to ARing every hour, still telling them that I would keep shortening the time between ARs until it was dealt with, that the building got removed. I don't know if they here happy or not with what I was doing, but the squeaky wheel was successful in the end.

Maybe they just filtered your AR's out? Straight to the bin.

[Theresa Tennyson]

36 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Abusing the AR filing system with an endless stream of AR's could easily backfire to the person posting them too. I don't think LL is really happy with people who put in AR's several times a day, week, month.
There might be a line or two in the TOS that gives the Lab power to stop this adequately. (And no, I ain't gonna look them up for you. )

 

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Yes see? Even after the amount of years you been here as a store owner you're stating "there might be". How much more so for those who are not regularly into the forums or follow the ins and outs of the Lab's policies?

6. CONDUCT BY USERS OF THE SERVICE

You agree to abide by certain rules of conduct, including any applicable community standards for the portion of the Service you are using) and other rules prohibiting illegal and other practices that Linden Lab deems harmful.

 

[. . .]

6.1 You will not post or transmit prohibited Content, including any Content that is illegal, harassing or violates any person's rights.

You agree that you will not:

 

[. . .]

(iv) Post, display, or transmit Content (including any communication(s) with employees of Linden Lab) that is harmful, threatening or harassing, defamatory, libelous, false, inaccurate, misleading, or invades another person's privacy;

https://lindenlab.com/tos

[Phil Deakins]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Maybe they just filtered your AR's out? Straight to the bin.

Maybe  But the squeakier I got, they had to do something.

Edited May 9 by Phil Deakins

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

You post a picture where we can't tell how tall you are.  LL is never going to tell at what height you won't be considered a child because they have already said it's not the ONLY factor in determining if you are underage or not.  What you are asking for the FAQ's already stated they are not going to give an exact height.  You want a guarantee that no one will AR you for looking underage and you just are not going to get that.

 

all im saying is, if i looked exactly the same in every way…. shape, proportion, hair, clothes, shoes, but was 7 ft tall, no one would give me a second look, but under 6 ft omg its a minor, AR

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

all im saying is, if i looked exactly the same in every way…. shape, proportion, hair, clothes, shoes, but was 7 ft tall, no one would give me a second look, but under 6 ft omg its a minor, AR

WHO is saying this?  Anyway it would be your face that might get you an AR.  It doesn't really look like an adult face.

Edited May 9 by Kathlen Onyx

[Sid Nagy]

4 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

all im saying is, if i looked exactly the same in every way…. shape, proportion, hair, clothes, shoes, but was 7 ft tall, no one would give me a second look, but under 6 ft omg its a minor, AR

You ain't notified by the Lab if someone AR's you IMHO.
Only if governance takes action, you will notice something.

Edited May 9 by Sid Nagy
Small text improvements.

[sirhc DeSantis]

For those who use more logical units the stated height is approx 1.65m. For those more comfortable with BCE measures thats about 3.6 cubits.

Now back to rinse and repeat

[Phil Deakins]

2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

all im saying is, if i looked exactly the same in every way…. shape, proportion, hair, clothes, shoes, but was 7 ft tall, no one would give me a second look, but under 6 ft omg its a minor, AR

To be perfectly honest, just continue to be what you are. You're fine. There is no way in the world that the pic you posted can come across to anyone as a child avatar, regardless of its height.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

15 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Less concern about the Lab then about loose cannon Residents who choose to report others because they don't like something about another or their advances were rejected. I have experienced abuse from some males over the years because they didn't like that I chose not to play with them. Threatened reporting me for one thing or another or just generally. When there is not clear cut directions from Governance about what they consider to be platform infractions, that can be be worrying. Just in these threads alone I have now heard of several situations which can be a cause for being banned that I didn't know about. They are not clearly stated in the ToS and though they were things I wouldn't do, the fact they are offences not spelled out is can be a cause for worry if they happen to start doing some investigation into areas I don't even know they had access to.

 

Yes, rejected suitor, I’ll show that b***h, I’ll AR her for being underage on an A sim.

LL takes great delight in not being specific, its so much easier to catch people stepping over the line when they won’t tell you what the line is .

Ambiguity is LL’s friend, and your enemy