The new ToS and something I don't think was taken into consideration by LL.

[Love Zhaoying]

29 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

49 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Child avatars shouldn't need deformers anyway!

Umm… just in case you're not (seen to be) joking: I meant the way the mesh deforms when the shape sliders are adjusted.

No, I thought the "add-on" deformers people buy to get larger butts, fat rolls, various "fixes", flatter chests, etc.

(Of course, a user with a "girl" avatar may want to use a "flatter chest" deformer, same for a user with a "boy" avatar who prefers using one of the "girl bodies".)

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

No, I thought the "add-on" deformers people buy to get larger butts, fat rolls, various "fixes", flatter chests, etc.

(Of course, a user with a "girl" avatar may want to use a "flatter chest" deformer, same for a user with a "boy" avatar who prefers using one of the "girl bodies".)

 

Semi-related point - the shortest you can go using an uncrushed Second Life skeleton is about 4 feet tall or so. That's "tween" territory in Second Life - Tweenster, etc. use the default skeleton in recognizable form.

Smaller than that, in the Toddleedoo/Bebe "youth" and "toddler" avatar sizes, the mesh body itself does some pretty wacky things to the skeleton to reduce the height. Most furniture, etc. for these little avatars are specifically made for them. And back in the day when the Yabusaka Petite mini-avatars were popular they sometimes looked like Slenderman if they didn't completely load for people around them.

[Jaylinbridges]

48 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Umm… just in case you're not (seen to be) joking: I meant the way the mesh deforms when the shape sliders are adjusted.

Not sure what you mean, but I tried to make the LL Senra Jamie new mesh avatar a teen by moving the sliders.  I saw nothing deformed, although the boobs were a little too big for a young teen (on average, since some 14 yr olds look like Dolly Parton already in RL).  Shortest height I could get was 4.97 feet w/ sneakers.  The groin area could be too bulgy, but I should try some BOM modesty panties to see for sure.  Can't show the nude body here. Her profile insists she is 18+ and she is on M-rated land.

But that default Senra face.  Looks so angry,  it's like come any closer and I will rip your heart out!

[Qie Niangao]

Yeah, it's kind of astonishing how bad the Senra avatars still are (especially the heads), even after they supposedly gave 'em another coat of polish.

But what I've been dancing around in this thread is dread that they intend modesty layers to exist not in textures, but rather actual geometry changes to the mesh, truncating UV-mapped polys where BoM can show, replacing them with whole new stuff to paint a different color from skin. As I've admitted in the monster thread, that would work (at the cost of every mesh body that could ever be used to represent an underage human), but if that turns out to be the plan I'll be more than furious that they didn't express it in the public "modesty layer" communications. For now, I'm still assuming they didn't go with that kludge but "they [Senra avatars] all have geometry in the groin that prohibits compliance without a new mesh" makes me wonder what the heck they are doing.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

Yeah, it's kind of astonishing how bad the Senra avatars still are (especially the heads), even after they supposedly gave 'em another coat of polish.

Maybe they look better under glTF and PBR with local lights and a custom environment, including skins created for all of those?

[Qie Niangao]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Maybe they look better under glTF and PBR with local lights and a custom environment, including skins created for all of those?

Wouldn't that be nice? Except BoM doesn't know from PBR yet, so it would have to be applied (by script or by hand). In fact, at some SLB before they were unveiled, I asked about whether Senra avatars would be PBR-ready, assuming that BoM would do PBR long before that, and the answer was "yes". But I guess "PBR ready" wasn't nearly specific enough.

If they don't get it to handle 2K textures Real Soon Now, BoM will be two generations behind standard practice for content, and skin creators are not going to wait forever when appliers can let them have it all at any time.

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

If they don't get it to handle 2K textures Real Soon Now, BoM will be two generations behind standard practice for content, and skin creators are not going to wait forever when appliers can let them have it all at any time.

WOW I missed that (I don't keep up with the creation stuff, just scripting) - BOM doesn't support as high a resolution as appliers?

[Jaylinbridges]

Ok, I convinced my Senra alt, Jamie, to take off her dress and show her modesty underwear.  She is also 4.7 feet tall now, shrunk her neck and legs a bit.  The underwear is all BOM.  Still see nothing wrong in the groin area, maybe I don't know what to look for. She is still young and innocent, despite that face.  You can tell by her cherry modesty underwear.

 

[Flea Yatsenko]

Child avatars must be in a child AV body. A user doing that with a Maitreya or any other adult body is in violation of the new ToS. They did think about this. If someone wanted to do adult things in that AV they would 100% be completely at fault for not getting the proper AV to play a child AND doing adult things as a child AV. They could probably get away with that body if they were genuinely RPing as a child AV and behaving. But that's still thin ice to be on, specially considering how much money goes into an AV. Adult body vendors aren't responsible if someone mis-uses their product.

The modesty layers are an opt in thing if you want to be a child AV. You have to buy or get something that explicitly declares you as a child AV. The line of "well I'm in an adult body but I changed my shape and got a skin and now I can pass for 11" is gone. It's a violation. End of story, full stop.

It's simple, if you want to put your age in your profile and do under-age RP and you are not in a body that meets the child AV requirements you are breaking the ToS and just counting on someone not reporting you. And if you want to wear some skinny/thin AV and still be an adult, you are fine as long as you don't do the dreaded APlay and are an adult. Requiring the modesty layers makes it very clear cut who is an adult and who is a child.

[Codex Alpha]

Just now, Jaylinbridges said:

Ok, I convinced my Senra alt, Jamie, to take off her dress and show her modesty underwear.  She is also 4.7 feet tall now, shrunk her neck and legs a bit.  The underwear is all BOM.  Still see nothing wrong in the groin area, maybe I don't know what to look for. She is still young and innocent, despite that face.  You can tell by her cherry modesty underwear.

 

Now she looks like an angry 50 year old grandmother, because the boobs are now sagging, the hair appears white. and the lower proportions looks like she has gained a bit of age weight as well. A relatively fit 50 year old... but even the tired, cynical face reflects she's been through a lot and doesn't take anymore crap lol
So goes to show how avatars present can vary the reaction to them - but that definitely doesn't look like a youthful teen avatar to me, even if you have tried to make it that way.

[Jaylinbridges]

8 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

So goes to show how avatars present can vary the reaction to them - but that definitely doesn't look like a youthful teen avatar to me, even if you have tried to make it that way.

Hey I tried.  Honestly I can't make these Senra heads look good at any age.  I did sag the boobs a bit, so she would not look too sexy.  Her hair is also from Senra, they call it blond.  Maybe it's blond in PBR.

 

Edited May 8 by Jaylinbridges

[Codex Alpha]

4 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Hey I tried.  Honestly I can't make these Senra heads look good at any age.  I did sag the boobs a bit, so she would not look too sexy.  Her hair is also from Senra, they call it blond.  Maybe it's blond in PBR.

 

Yes, not ragging on you. It's a skill in itself to try to make avatars of different ages, so the SL current panic of what constitutes a child vs adult avatar is ridiculous, as to an experienced artist, (and a Linden Lab employee) should be able to discern quite easily how an avatar 'presents'.  You're safe, lol.. Also check out this image for very clear differences...

Haha sorry, makes your avatar look even older when side by side now

Note to LL: (images from marketplace, soo....)

If a reasonable person would look at the features of your avatar and consider it underage, we would recommend not engaging in adult activities on that account. Apart from considering the avatar's appearance, the team considers various other factors, such as the purpose for which the avatar is being used.

Child Avatar FAQ: Linden Lab

Edited May 8 by Codex Alpha
Added facts and link to Linden Lab FAQ

[Jaylinbridges]

23 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Haha sorry, makes your avatar look even older when side by side now

Well I was laughing as I tweeked her sliders. I can give her more curves, perk up her boobs, turn on materials, sweat up her skin, and of course give her a young head with with a sexy smile and decent eye makeup.   But then my partner would get jealous and I'd be in trouble.  

I really wanted to see how short the Senra bodies would go and still be proportioned correctly.  And also check the BOM underwear fit.  That part looks ok to me.  

Remember, in SL teenagers are not suppose to be able to see their sexy parts, or even wear them.  Teenagers have no interest in sex of course, at least SL thinks so.  Cast Iron underwear is coming soon.

Edited May 8 by Jaylinbridges

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

WOW I missed that (I don't keep up with the creation stuff, just scripting) - BOM doesn't support as high a resolution as appliers?

Right. Appliers of course just paint the texture (and material maps) wherever they're told. Supposedly there was debate about whether BOM should ever support 2K textures, but I think they finally got the message that it's curtains for BoM if they don't.

Not that I've so much as uploaded a 2K texture yet myself. Nor made a mirror, another thing that went grid-wide yesterday, along with the ability to use 2K terrain textures (except, of course, Mainland, where I expect them to dither another six months while everybody leaves the continents for greener Estate pastures).

With all those developments, you'd think the place would be abuzz with excitement. Nary a whisper. Too busy chasing the phantom menace from Medium.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

2K terrain textures

1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

expect them to dither 

Good pun! Or coincidence! 🙂

 

[Rowan Amore]

42 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

should be able to discern quite easily how an avatar 'presents'.

So is that teen 18 ,19 or 14?   The first 2 are adult and the 3rd one is not.    A lot of women (adult avatars) present as slim and petite.   

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I expect them to dither another six months while everybody leaves the continents for greener Estate pastures

Doubtful, most people don't really care about 2k textures except in "oh no even more texture thrashing, my gpu hates this" and PBR ? Most people still don't use a PBR viewer, and many don't want to.

7 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Supposedly there was debate about whether BOM should ever support 2K textures, but I think they finally got the message that it's curtains for BoM if they don't.

Increasing texture resolution for system bakes from 512 to 1024 raised bandwidth usage, quadrupling that isn't going to help, nor will more texture thrashing.

And yes "blah blah latest fail viewer has blah blah", most people still don't and won't use it.

 

They'd rather worry if they are going to be banned, or hit with crippling restrictions than the wants of artiste wannabes with top of the line pc's.

 

 

[Blush Bravin]

1 hour ago, Codex Alpha said:

 

Your examples of teen and adult are simply post pubescent females who could be anywhere from 13 to mid 20s. Your fit but 50 could easily be one of the newer "more realistic" Barbie's with a deflated boob job, excluding the face. Your example of a child looks like a female who is about to enter puberty, possibly has entered the first stages of puberty. I don't really see a young child though.

[Blush Bravin]

29 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Right. Appliers of course just paint the texture (and material maps) wherever they're told. Supposedly there was debate about whether BOM should ever support 2K textures, but I think they finally got the message that it's curtains for BoM if they don't.

Not that I've so much as uploaded a 2K texture yet myself. Nor made a mirror, another thing that went grid-wide yesterday, along with the ability to use 2K terrain textures (except, of course, Mainland, where I expect them to dither another six months while everybody leaves the continents for greener Estate pastures).

With all those developments, you'd think the place would be abuzz with excitement. Nary a whisper. Too busy chasing the phantom menace from Medium.

Hate the idea of anyone using 2k textures for BOM. IMO 2k textures are best for large surfaces like terrain or where extreme sharpness is required like mirrors. We already have more than enough detail on our skins using 1024s.

[Codex Alpha]

9 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Your examples of teen and adult are simply post pubescent females who could be anywhere from 13 to mid 20s. Your fit but 50 could easily be one of the newer "more realistic" Barbie's with a deflated boob job, excluding the face. Your example of a child looks like a female who is about to enter puberty, possibly has entered the first stages of puberty. I don't really see a young child though.

Take it up with the judge. Don't argue it with me. Like I said before, SL'ers seem to not know the difference, though EXPERIENCED ARTISTS DO

It's also not my 'interpretation' , it's how the product is described by the artist - of which I agree with.

Edited May 8 by Codex Alpha

[Leslie Trihey]

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Doubtful, most people don't really care about 2k textures except in "oh no even more texture thrashing, my gpu hates this" and PBR ? Most people still don't use a PBR viewer, and many don't want to.

Increasing texture resolution for system bakes from 512 to 1024 raised bandwidth usage, quadrupling that isn't going to help, nor will more texture thrashing.

And yes "blah blah latest fail viewer has blah blah", most people still don't and won't use it.

 

They'd rather worry if they are going to be banned, or hit with crippling restrictions than the wants of artiste wannabes with top of the line pc's.

 

 

1024-2k textures have been industry standard for quite a long time now, as is the new materials system. if you have a modern graphics card you'll be fine. You won't need a "top of the line" PC for second life finally somewhat catching up to modern graphics standards.

Edited May 8 by Leslie Trihey

[Blush Bravin]

16 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Take it up with the judge. Don't argue it with me. Like I said before, SL'ers seem to not know the difference, though EXPERIENCED ARTISTS DO

Retired art teacher here. I do know the difference. 

Edited May 8 by Blush Bravin

[Starberry Passion]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

Your examples of teen and adult are simply post pubescent females who could be anywhere from 13 to mid 20s. Your fit but 50 could easily be one of the newer "more realistic" Barbie's with a deflated boob job, excluding the face. Your example of a child looks like a female who is about to enter puberty, possibly has entered the first stages of puberty. I don't really see a young child though.

Not so sure, I've seen 50 year olds with the teen and adult body types.

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

Your examples of teen and adult are simply post pubescent females who could be anywhere from 13 to mid 20s. Your fit but 50 could easily be one of the newer "more realistic" Barbie's with a deflated boob job, excluding the face. Your example of a child looks like a female who is about to enter puberty, possibly has entered the first stages of puberty. I don't really see a young child though.

They're also the promotional photo for the Rebirth body.

[HarrisonMcKenzie]

3 hours ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

Child avatars must be in a child AV body. A user doing that with a Maitreya or any other adult body is in violation of the new ToS.

Sorry, but you're wrong. That's not how this works. That's not how reality works. If LL wanted to make that the rule, they would have done so. No body has a baked in age, nor is there any agreement you have to sign that polices this. You don't get to decide what body people are allowed to use, nor do you get to decide how they use it. If they are doing inappropriate things, that's already covered in the TOS and had nothing to do with the body they are wearing, nor your virtue signaling.