Dorientje Woller Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 5 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: The rule puts the blame on the user of the avatar and nobody else, is pretty much what I was saying.. The users hand is in the cookie jar with nobody else to blame but themselves.. The skin maker is required to bake in a modesty layer now.. It doesn't matter what went on before the rule changes with skin makers. It does now and they can get flagged for not baking one in now.. They could also have killed the derender feature of the viewer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayke Newall Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, Ceka Cianci said: The rule puts the blame on the user of the avatar and nobody else, is pretty much what I was saying.. The users hand is in the cookie jar with nobody else to blame but themselves.. I understand what you are saying, even though that has always been the case, the user is to blame for how they conduct themselves. 1 minute ago, Ceka Cianci said: The skin maker is required to bake in a modesty layer now.. It doesn't matter what went on before the rule changes with skin makers. It does now and they can get flagged for not baking one in now.. Ok lets use your logic then. Sure the skin maker is now not to blame because they put a modesty layer on their skin (baked on and permanent) but then that means that the body maker is to blame because they made the body with BoM and allowed the end user to overrule the skin makers modesty layer. So does that mean that the Body maker can now get flagged for making the skin makers baked modesty layer irrelevant by allowing BoM? That is what I am saying, you cant have it both ways. Either both the skin AND the mesh body need to comply (skin baked with modesty layer and body made not BoM so it cant remove said modesty layer) or neither at all as it does nothing more than what was before. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, Dorientje Woller said: They could also have killed the derender feature of the viewer. I'm not sure what you are meaning. I haven't used that feature much myself, so I'm not understanding how that would work or works , to be honest.. hehehe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 6 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said: They could also have killed the derender feature of the viewer. That would impact a great many more people than are hit by these changes. Anyone with land, for instance, who wants to derender something hideous (and possibly griefy) next door. I suppose it might not be too bad to remove the option to derender attachments. But that's a change to code. This is easier. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaylinbridges Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) I see a new BOM industry here - tint and tone matching underpants for specific bodies. Edited May 3 by Jaylinbridges 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorientje Woller Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: I'm not sure what you are meaning. I haven't used that feature much myself, so I'm not understanding how that would work or works , to be honest.. hehehe Isn't it LL responsibility that clothed child avatars can't be derendered piece by piece of their clothing, instead of forcing them to wear baked in modesty parts in the skin. It's like telling someone not to kill somebody but giving that person the gun. Edited May 3 by Dorientje Woller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Robonaught Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said: I'd say, Don't do that anymore.. hehehe 1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: You TP into a place about which you apparently know nothing, and immediately go AFK?????? I'm not sure what to say other than . . . you should probably stop doing that? I think these new rules -- and especially the one about baked-on underclothing, which I suspect is really unnecessary -- are going to create lots of real inconveniences and hardships among those who use child avatars. And, no, I don't think that's a good thing: I believe there is a large and entirely legitimate community of child RPers who deserve to be allowed to do their thing to the greatest degree possible. There is absolutely no question that there is a*eplay happening in SL, but, as I've said before, I am pretty sure that, by a pretty huge margin, it's mostly happening with avatars that are largely indistinguishable from adult ones. But, I'm sorry, your example, above, is trivial to an almost ridiculous degree. 59 minutes ago, Rathgrith027 said: Yeah uh.. I find this to just be entirely absurd as well. Who just yeets themselves somewhere blindly and goes AFK? Well mostly started because of long tps or logins and taking forever to rez. So you go afk and get distracted by TV, go off to start dinner, actually go to eat, or even fall asleep because the tp takes so damn long. You should visit those HUBs and watch all the afk people who don't even know their sim was unavailable during restarts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissSweetViolet Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 6 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said: Isn't it LL responsibility that clothed child avatars can be derendered piece by piece of their clothing, instead of forcing them to wear baked in modesty parts in the skin. It's like telling someone not to kill somebody but giving that person the gun. The default viewer doesn't allow derender as far as I know, that's a TPV feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Robonaught Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 39 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: How much system clothing is still being made though, other than like swim wear and lingerie? When Bom was released, Applier skins and clothing started to die off. Just as system clothes died off when mesh bodies and applier skins and clothing became more popular.. It just happens because the majority moves in those directions, which triggers more creators to create more of this and none or less of that.. I kept everything! And BOM is pretty much high(er) quality system clothes 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 2 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said: I understand what you are saying, even though that has always been the case, the user is to blame for how they conduct themselves. Ok lets use your logic then. Sure the skin maker is now not to blame because they put a modesty layer on their skin (baked on and permanent) but then that means that the body maker is to blame because they made the body with BoM and allowed the end user to overrule the skin makers modesty layer. So does that mean that the Body maker can now get flagged for making the skin makers baked modesty layer irrelevant by allowing BoM? That is what I am saying, you cant have it both ways. Either both the skin AND the mesh body need to comply (skin baked with modesty layer and body made not BoM so it cant remove said modesty layer) or neither at all as it does nothing more than what was before. If all child avatar skins are now required to have a baked in modesty layer and a user of a child avatar decides to cover up the modesty layer with adult parts and make themselves nude. Who is breaking the rules? It pretty much makes it clear now in what LL said with what child avatars cannot have now.. So if they have a skin that has a baked in modesty layer, is it the body makers fault that the user decided to cover up the modesty layer to make themselves nude? No, it's the child avatar user.. It's not about whats out there that they can use.. It's about what they are allowed to use now.. A mesh body is not a layer, it's a canvas pretty much. The user in the painter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Robonaught Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 done reading! 🙃 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 16 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said: Isn't it LL responsibility that clothed child avatars can't be derendered piece by piece of their clothing, instead of forcing them to wear baked in modesty parts in the skin. It's like telling someone not to kill somebody but giving that person the gun. I might still be misunderstanding.. But I'm gonna try.. hehehe If the skin with the built in modestly layer can't be de-rendered, they pretty much stopped whoever was trying to see them nude.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Denim Robonaught said: Well mostly started because of long tps or logins and taking forever to rez. So you go afk and get distracted by TV, go off to start dinner, actually go to eat, or even fall asleep because the tp takes so damn long. You should visit those HUBs and watch all the afk people who don't even know their sim was unavailable during restarts. Just so you know.. I was just being sill when I said that.. Not serious at all.. hehehe It just reminded me of that DR joke I heard once that always made me laugh.. Patient: Doc, it hurts when I do this with my arm. Doctor: Then don't do that. hehehe Edited May 3 by Ceka Cianci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Denim Robonaught said: I kept everything! And BOM is pretty much high(er) quality system clothes A lot of mine seemed to have really pixelated texture, So I pretty much got rid of most of my things, even the skins.. I have a little bit of things left, but not much. Some things were textured really good back then.. But I had a lot of not so good things too.. hehehe Edited May 3 by Ceka Cianci 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said: They could also have killed the derender feature of the viewer. or the lights .. in the dark you won't see anything. shooting a mosquito with air defence artillery is still a bit overdone... derendering has more good purposes than bad ones. Edited May 3 by Alwin Alcott 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: I suppose it might not be too bad to remove the option to derender attachments. But that's a change to code. This is easier. depends also... i'd prefer to be able to derender and block nuisances as wearable bling, soundboxes and companion objects. Edited May 3 by Alwin Alcott 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 2 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said: depends also... i'd prefer to be able to derender and block nuisances as wearable bling, soundboxes and companion objects. True. And some facelights . . . 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayke Newall Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said: If all child avatar skins are now required to have a baked in modesty layer and a user of a child avatar decides to cover up the modesty layer with adult parts and make themselves nude. Who is breaking the rules? It pretty much makes it clear now in what LL said with what child avatars cannot have now.. So if they have a skin that has a baked in modesty layer, is it the body makers fault that the user decided to cover up the modesty layer to make themselves nude? No, it's the child avatar user.. It's not about whats out there that they can use.. It's about what they are allowed to use now.. A mesh body is not a layer, it's a canvas pretty much. The user in the painter. You seem to be missing my point Ceka. How does this resolve the situation of people abusing the age system that got LL in trouble in the first place (the infamous article)? The request of a modesty layer is pointless if it isn't enforced. Yes moan and groan, I'm going to mention Roblox. Roblox has a modesty layer they introduced. Because of the nature of Roblox being catered for kids they enforce the modesty layer on all avatars not just child like. Now I am not proposing by any means that should be done in second life nor am I suggesting SL is Roblox. That said however, it is enforced. What is the point of having a modesty layer and saying it cannot be turned off, if it can be simply 'turned off' by BoM. Yes, the user did it, but the user shouldn't be able to do it at all on any child mesh body if such a rule is to exist. This has never been about the creator didn't do that so cant blame them. It is and always has been to ensure preventative measures are put in place to stop the USER from misconduct. Something that can be bypassed is just pointless. Yes you cant stop everything, but a body SPECIFICALLY made for a child avatar should ensure it cannot be turned off, otherwise throw the rule out. Also Linden Lab could take a few points from Roblox's modesty layer policy section and publicly show what does and doesn't need a modesty layer. Roblox has pictures to show what doesn't need it for their avatars which would certainly answer @Coffee Pancake's question regarding furry and non human avatars. Can find those comparisons here: Marketplace Policy | Documentation - Roblox Creator Hub. Which I hope the same exclusions would apply for Second Life's avatars (i.e. anything non smooth/flat skin-like doesn't need one). Edited May 3 by Drayke Newall 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 41 minutes ago, Denim Robonaught said: So you go afk and get distracted by TV, go off to start dinner, actually go to eat, or even fall asleep because the tp takes so damn long. You should visit those HUBs and watch all the afk people who don't even know their sim was unavailable during restarts. most you mention are quite easy planable things.. those can wait ... When you'r tired and know it takes long to log in.. wait... Comparing hubs to where it's about, isn't really valid, those are drains for all and nothing since very long. Wouldn't even send my dead dog to those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: True. And some facelights . . . firestorm has a block for those 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 5 hours ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said: You get tossed to the highest rated InfoHub per your 'search settings'. i'd rather see a function that gives a message " your location isn't available, do you want to pick .....(choose landmark here) " those infohubs are often the clogged sewer drains of SL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 4 hours ago, Sylwia Obolensky said: ban all child avatars somthing comparable to environmental fighters want to nuke the human population? .. it would work... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 3 hours ago, Kathlen Onyx said: If LL thinks ............. they are mistaken. not new of course... that's why i said this on the first page Quote i trust they did make this changes after overthinking and calculating every possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 3 hours ago, Serena Stroikavskoi said: My opinion is it should be Lindens responsibly and obviously they are taking it very seriously by recent events. not only the rules already gave enough possibilities to act on abuses, but the lack of maintaining is the main reason. Residents are no police. not relevant for this topic, but this also made the MP experience as if you dig in a sales box instead of shopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 sorry for the row of replies ... i'm reading up the pile of pages that been posted while i slept 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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