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It would be interesting if we could choose how to sort the houses on the Linden Homes page. I'm not surprised that Premium Plus homes show at the top. After all, these are the most profitable for Linden Lab. It's also sensible to put styles that are not available at the end, after the old style Linden Homes.

Just for fun though, this is how the styles would be listed currently if we could sort by the least available (most popular?) houses first.

1. Stilt Home on Water - 0 available

2. Stilt Home on Pier  -  0 available

3. Ranch (2048)   -   12 available

4. Mediterranean (2048) - 105 available

5. Victorian (1024)  -  168 available

6. Sakura (1024)  -  279 available

7. Stilt Home on Land  -  324 available

8. Newbrook (1024)  -  398 available

9. Traditional (1024)  -  421 available

10. Houseboat (1024)  -  447 available

11. Sakura (512)  -  479 available

12. Camper (512)  -  535 available

13. Aspen (512)  -  684 available

14. Wizard's Retreat (512) - 738 available

15. Newbrook (512)  -  771 available

14. Birch (512)   -   867 available

15. Cypress (512)  -  871 available

16. Shire's Hearth (512)  -  910 available

17. Elven Treehome (512) - 913 available

18. Abbot's Haven (512) - 929 available

19. Willow (512)  -  971 available

20. Maple (512)  -  1041 available

That's just the first 20 least available styles. The old-style Japanese homes are each in the 1000+ range. Log Homes, Fantasseria, and the Chalets are each in the 2000+ range.

Of course, if one were to add all the available old-style Tahoe (A frame) homes together, there would be about 5000 available. If one were to add together all the old-style Elderglen (fantasy) homes, there would be about 2900 available. There are thus more available homes in each of the old Linden Home styles than there are in the Log Homes, Fantasseria or Chalet styles.

I hope the Moles release those new Stilt Homes on Water and Piers soon. Even though they're not as profitable for Linden Lab as the 2048 m homes are, people have been waiting for them for a while now.

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I have noticed the availability of the trads and vics creeping up slowly, and assumed some residents were switching to the new premium plots.
It will be interesting to see how quickly the newly released meds are taken up, it will give an indication of 2048 demand.

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Now

3. Ranch (2048)   -  10 available

4. Mediterranean (2038) - 102 available

5. Victorian (1024)  -  167 available

6. Sakura (1024)  -   280 available

7. Stilt Home on Land  -  324 available

8. Houseboat (1024)  -  351 available?

9. Newbrook (1024)  -  398 available

10. Traditional (1024)  -  421 available

Note:

* The # of available Houseboats listed is probably incorrect. This looks like the land impact value instead.

Edited by Persephone Emerald
Incorrect data
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7 hours ago, Raspberry Crystal said:

I have noticed the availability of the trads and vics creeping up slowly, and assumed some residents were switching to the new premium plots.
It will be interesting to see how quickly the newly released meds are taken up, it will give an indication of 2048 demand.

It really wasn’t that long ago that the Vics availability hovered between zero and single figures. The Trads were likewise a waiting game a few months before that, and the available figures now are quite amazing. Then again, the take up of the Ranches and Meds has been astounding, an excellent project for LL, and so the fluctuations are to be expected.

The work on the Victorians on the Southern Island below Merrymount seems to have slowed since the launch of the Ranches, and with the increase of available Vics I cannot help but think that the boat has been missed with that project.

With that area in mind… would it be worth considering reworking the parcels to 2048 sqm, keeping the existing building choice but thereby making another market for Premium Plus? I know it has been mentioned previously by ‘those in the know’ that reworking an area is more time consuming than developing a new area, but as an out and out fan and supporter of the Victorian theme I’d love to see the area put to good use, and who knows, maybe entice some of the prem plus lovers of Vics to come back without losing the increased prim allowance that they currently enjoy with Ranches and Meds.

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3 hours ago, Henry Blackwood said:

It really wasn’t that long ago that the Vics availability hovered between zero and single figures. The Trads were likewise a waiting game a few months before that, and the available figures now are quite amazing. Then again, the take up of the Ranches and Meds has been astounding, an excellent project for LL, and so the fluctuations are to be expected.

The work on the Victorians on the Southern Island below Merrymount seems to have slowed since the launch of the Ranches, and with the increase of available Vics I cannot help but think that the boat has been missed with that project.

With that area in mind… would it be worth considering reworking the parcels to 2048 sqm, keeping the existing building choice but thereby making another market for Premium Plus? I know it has been mentioned previously by ‘those in the know’ that reworking an area is more time consuming than developing a new area, but as an out and out fan and supporter of the Victorian theme I’d love to see the area put to good use, and who knows, maybe entice some of the prem plus lovers of Vics to come back without losing the increased prim allowance that they currently enjoy with Ranches and Meds.

Even when the new Victorian Homes are completed and available, the total number won't be that large. If there are a few hundred available for any theme, I think this may be a comfortable amount for Linden Lab. Rather than reworking existing regions to retrofit them for 2048m parcels, I think LL might want to create a new 2048m theme - *after* they release those Victorians and the new Stilt Homes.

Right now people who had multiple alts in 1024 m theme homes, have likely given up some of those to get a 2048 m home instead. This is good for Linden Lab, since one Premium Plus account gives them more money than 2 Premium accounts. It remains to be seen at what point 2048 m regions would have a few hundred empty houses, but I'm sure LL doesn't want to get stuck with thousands of empty 2048 m parcels, like they have now with the old Linden Homes, the Log Homes, the Chalets, and Fantassaria. I think they're going to be very careful moving forward not to over-build.

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Tonight

1. Stilt Homes on Water  -  0 available

2. Stilt Homes on Pier  -  0 available

3. Ranch (2048)   -   3 available

4. Mediterranean (2048)  -  101 available

5. Victorians (1024)   -   165 available

6. Sakura (1024)   -   279 available

7. Stilt Homes on Land  -  319 available

8. Newbrooks (1024)   -   404 available

9. Traditionals (1024)   -   428 available

10. Houseboats (1024)  -  445 available

 

* I probably had the wrong # for available Houseboats in my previous post. That looks like the land impact # instead.

Edited by Persephone Emerald
Updated #s cuz I'm bored & nobody's reading this thread anyway
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44 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

I'm surprised that Mediterranean is still around, let alone that high.

I'd have thought those would be clearing out as fast as they could drop new regions down for at least another 20-40 regions.

I've been curious about how residents are responding to the new regions, so for the last couple of days I keep checking the current availability numbers. Rather than people leaving the Ranch regions to try the new shiny or either of these 2048 m regions reaching a saturation point where nobody else wants to pay for a Premium Plus account, both themes continue to fill up pretty quickly. I guess those few people who complained on the forum that they wanted bigger Linden Homes represent a bigger portion of SL residents than I expected. People do seem to be abandoning 1024 m homes in order to move to the 2048 m ones, but this trend seems to me to be a good one financially for Linden Lab.

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15 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I've been curious about how residents are responding to the new regions, so for the last couple of days I keep checking the current availability numbers. Rather than people leaving the Ranch regions to try the new shiny or either of these 2048 m regions reaching a saturation point where nobody else wants to pay for a Premium Plus account, both themes continue to fill up pretty quickly. I guess those few people who complained on the forum that they wanted bigger Linden Homes represent a bigger portion of SL residents than I expected. People do seem to be abandoning 1024 m homes in order to move to the 2048 m ones, but this trend seems to me to be a good one financially for Linden Lab.

The fuzzy math is whether people are dropping multiple Premium accounts to promote one to Premium Plus.  As you noted earlier, a two for one trade is still a considerable win for LL, but there is always the possibility that people are are demoting 3 or more Premiums, preferring to have one house they can fully decorate to several that are more challenging.  If that is happening, it likely isn't at a high enough rate to cause concern, though the number of empty parcels in what were very popular themes certainly raises the question.

Even if it is a break even scenario for LL, it is a good business decision, as they now have available inventory in more themes.  We'll have to see if the number of available water and pier stilts increases when the unreleased parcels are finished. 

I mentioned on another thread that I didn't think it would be the best use of Mole time to invest in adding new models to some of the existing themes, but I have changed my mind about that.  The glut of empty Chalets and Logs justifies doing something to generate a renewed interest in those themes.      

Edited by Matthieu Quander
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5 hours ago, Matthieu Quander said:

... it likely isn't at a high enough rate to cause concern, though the number of empty parcels in what were very popular themes certainly raises the question.

...

I mentioned on another thread that I didn't think it would be the best use of Mole time to invest in adding new models to some of the existing themes, but I have changed my mind about that.  The glut of empty Chalets and Logs justifies doing something to generate a renewed interest in those themes.      

People, particularly Belli GOH players, chase the shiny.  So yes, I think people are trading in some of their favorite, older spots for newer ones. I'm thinking of letting my terrific Vic in Dimanche go, it's wonderful but - I changed the house to a different style, never finished decorating it ... I think I'm bored with it.

It might also be that Belli in general is losing some shine.  I have one PP avatar, no plans to have another.  I find myself wondering how many more themes it makes sense to do.  The recent thread asking about future themes didn't yield too much that was compelling.  Are we all sort of running out of Belli steam?  Will oldbies slowly tiptoe away if LL stops making new themes?

Has LL ever engaged in urban renewal, blowing away a bunch of existing, sparsely populated regions?  They didn't even do it when mainland was really languishing, cut up everywhere by ad farmers.  Will they ever move people from the old LH regions?  Will they ever rehab Belli regions, like the chalets? 

Perhaps the plan for Belli is to keep the landscape as is, and add more styles of homes to keep the shiny going.  I could definitely see that working in the Trad regions.  Maybe rework the landscaping a LITTLE to add a soundscape.  They could even evolve the Chalet theme with new styles of homes, even though the landscape is very specific to the theme.  A (quiet) windmill you can live in.  An old Teutonic home of some kind. A small thatched cottage.

I think they're working on a new style home now, on and off, but no way to tell if its for an existing theme or a new one.

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13 hours ago, Nika Talaj said:

People, particularly Belli GOH players, chase the shiny.  So yes, I think people are trading in some of their favorite, older spots for newer ones. I'm thinking of letting my terrific Vic in Dimanche go, it's wonderful but - I changed the house to a different style, never finished decorating it ... I think I'm bored with it.

It might also be that Belli in general is losing some shine.  I have one PP avatar, no plans to have another.  I find myself wondering how many more themes it makes sense to do.  The recent thread asking about future themes didn't yield too much that was compelling.  Are we all sort of running out of Belli steam?  Will oldbies slowly tiptoe away if LL stops making new themes?

Has LL ever engaged in urban renewal, blowing away a bunch of existing, sparsely populated regions?  They didn't even do it when mainland was really languishing, cut up everywhere by ad farmers.  Will they ever move people from the old LH regions?  Will they ever rehab Belli regions, like the chalets? 

Perhaps the plan for Belli is to keep the landscape as is, and add more styles of homes to keep the shiny going.  I could definitely see that working in the Trad regions.  Maybe rework the landscaping a LITTLE to add a soundscape.  They could even evolve the Chalet theme with new styles of homes, even though the landscape is very specific to the theme.  A (quiet) windmill you can live in.  An old Teutonic home of some kind. A small thatched cottage.

I think they're working on a new style home now, on and off, but no way to tell if its for an existing theme or a new one.

Back in the day Patch was saying we have only 'x' more themes to go,  and yet here we are, with X+N different styles on offer and still expanding.
I would say the hard limit to the number of PP membership is finances, that the higher the cost the smaller the pool of SL users who would be willing to take the leap, no matter what style of home might be available.
I get the feeling that LL are feeling their way forward at the moment, and being tentative about over building the 2048s.

 

18 hours ago, Matthieu Quander said:

The fuzzy math is whether people are dropping multiple Premium accounts to promote one to Premium Plus.  As you noted earlier, a two for one trade is still a considerable win for LL, but there is always the possibility that people are are demoting 3 or more Premiums, preferring to have one house they can fully decorate to several that are more challenging.  If that is happening, it likely isn't at a high enough rate to cause concern, though the number of empty parcels in what were very popular themes certainly raises the question.

Even if it is a break even scenario for LL, it is a good business decision, as they now have available inventory in more themes.  We'll have to see if the number of available water and pier stilts increases when the unreleased parcels are finished. 

I mentioned on another thread that I didn't think it would be the best use of Mole time to invest in adding new models to some of the existing themes, but I have changed my mind about that.  The glut of empty Chalets and Logs justifies doing something to generate a renewed interest in those themes.      

I agree about a potential benefit for adding new models to the logs and chalets. The logs in particular could have designs added which would not detract from the overall theme, but simply give a cosier feel, or a different outlook for tricky plots.
The chalets are more of a challenge. Having a road full of windmill homes could wind up feeling like a disney park which could antagonize the residents who like the existing feel of the area.
It is such a shame that adding seasons would be uneconomic at this point. 
 

Overall, I would hope that the Lindens might consider creating another tier of membership for the 512 plots. That would be a Belli 'starter' package, or a long term rental for those on a tighter budget. This would certainly feed into the urban theme that many seem to want as well.

Edited by Raspberry Crystal
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15 hours ago, Nika Talaj said:

It might also be that Belli in general is losing some shine

Maybe it is less to do with new homes and themes and more to do with community engagement and roleplay? 

I think there was a post recently by moles asking about what events we would take part in or wanted to see? 

In Bellisseria we have multiple themes and multiple community areas of multiple interest for everyone to use for their own meetings and agendas and possible roleplay which is great - but how many do this? I am aware that there are Mer communities? Rail communities? 

If a Linden or a Mole decided to run a regular, (monthly, quarterly?), official "town" meeting would that generate an overall sense of community? Would people want that? They could mix it up - one time its the round table in Fantisseria - the next its the hall in Chippewa etc. This could be made more fun by encouraging non mandatory themed dress code or something? 

Perhaps Bellisseria needs a Community Engagement Officer? Someone who could full time manage the use of LH for non commercial roleplay? Maybe there could be an incentive to stay in your LH and continue that roleplay? 

The reason they don't do any of this is probably because of time, energy and the possibility of a mob and grief and all the obvious reasons that I wouldn't do it either!

I would turn up for it though!

 

Edited by Chloe Bunny
Added a potential job opening for someone!
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On 2/15/2024 at 8:42 AM, Henry Blackwood said:

 … would it be worth considering reworking the parcels to 2048 sqm, keeping the existing building choice but thereby making another market for Premium Plus? I know it has been mentioned previously by ‘those in the know’ that reworking an area is more time consuming than developing a new area, but as an out and out fan and supporter of the Victorian theme I’d love to see the area put to good use, and who knows, maybe entice some of the prem plus lovers of Vics to come back without losing the increased prim allowance that they currently enjoy with Ranches and Meds.

I don't think it would be economical to rework existing parcels. It's obviously economical to add home styles, texturing options, and items in the content packs, because they've already done these things. I think it might also be possible to create new regions with 2048 m parcels within the existing themes.

For instance, there is undeveloped coastline NW of the Newbrook regions which could have 2048 m Houseboat parcels. These could be the same depth as the current rectangular parcels, but with double the width. People seem to like being on water, but sometimes complain that the Houseboats feel too close together. The Houseboat theme also requires less landscaping than themes on land, so this means they'd use fewer mole-hours. They still need someone to create the coastline and piers, but they'd need less plants, soundscaping, and maybe less intensive QA work.

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38 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

For instance, there is undeveloped coastline NW of the Newbrook regions which could have 2048 m Houseboat parcels. These could be the same depth as the current rectangular parcels, but with double the width. People seem to like being on water, but sometimes complain that the Houseboats feel too close together. The Houseboat theme also requires less landscaping than themes on land, so this means they'd use fewer mole-hours. They still need someone to create the coastline and piers, but they'd need less plants, soundscaping, and maybe less intensive QA work.

I recently downgraded Blush from Premium Plus to regular Premium, but before doing that I found a lovely houseboat up near the Newbrookes on sand. It's a really beautiful area with lots of landscaping even though it's on water. 

houseboat_001.thumb.jpg.820415632f02d9c1ef0a30fd47a051aa.jpg

Houseboats seems as though it would take less LI. So I was curious to see if that's true because there's lots of landscaping around my houseboat. So I did some investigating. The "front yard" to my houseboat has 197 LI in vegetation and rocks. 197.thumb.jpg.504f1c87b67fd0c2e566ce394350f01a.jpg

And below on the sea floor another 223 in LI. And I've not even included all the rocks and grass underwater just outside of my "back yard".

223.thumb.jpg.84060500f6ec4c801e63b59c84e60e9c.jpg

I panned out to get a view of what the sea floor looks like with turning water rendering off. And there's lots going on under the water here.

underthesea.thumb.jpg.5b87aad9533cbb0c48b91a6ec92dbc4d.jpg

I'll be keeping my houseboat for what I think will be a long time as this is the first parcel I actually went searching for and requested using my PP perk. I've also determined that after living in every theme that houseboats are my favorite. houseboat-dock_001.thumb.jpg.a5555b6f4b0af2b4cd9d2087f183138e.jpg

And can completely agree that the idea of having 2048 houseboats is very appealing, but I don't think they require less work or land impact if built in the same fashion as my current houseboat region.

Edited by Blush Bravin
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I think we are probably due new floorplans for the logs, given that we still only have four options there, and I'd also add a couple of single-story styles. Chalets have a bunch of styles already, but it'd be nice to have more exterior texturing options, like the Newbrookes have. Maybe thatching and masonry would tempt a few people back? I feel like they overbuilt because of the massve demand for previous themes, and then for various reasons people just didn't click with them. I have a soft spot for Chalets myself, but I can't settle in one when there's the prospect of a seaside Trad or Vic out there. I can't see how you fill them without either shutting down the old LH continents or opening them up to Basic Plus subscribers, to be honest.

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With over 2500 empty Chalet parcels, I'm starting to come around to the idea of converting some of them to 2048 m parcels with a couple new house styles.

Would this even be possible though? Would the LDPW be able to convert 2 existing 1024 m parcels in existing regions into one 2048 m parcel? 

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1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

With over 2500 empty Chalet parcels, I'm starting to come around to the idea of converting some of them to 2048 m parcels with a couple new house styles.

Would this even be possible though? Would the LDPW be able to convert 2 existing 1024 m parcels in existing regions into one 2048 m parcel? 

While converting some Chalet parcels to 2048 m would reduce the availability number, I think it is a huge assumption that it would have any impact on desirability for that theme.  For the sake of discussion, let's assume that it would.

They have said many times that reworking existing regions isn't practical, and that it is always easier to completely rebuild.  I could see them being able to have clusters of replacement regions that fit with existing surrounding ones, but then how to you manage the swap?  I can't imagine telling people that they have to move would go over well unless they offered them a free Premium Plus upgrade for a year or something like that.  Waiting for regions to empty of residents through natural causes may never happen...it certainly hasn't occurred in the original Linden Homes.    

It's certainly a conundrum.  I think adding new models and/or design options to existing models would be a better way to try to increase demand, but to what end?  

I think Bellisseria has had a positive impact on the number of Premium members.  The challenge is sustaining that.  They can't keep adding new regions indefinitely.  Perhaps they should consider temporary regions with themes that get rotated on a schedule.  That would allow them to have a finite number of servers, and keep the people attracted by shiny new things happy.  They could also do seasons.  Smaller areas of permanent regions covering all themes would be needed for those who want a forever home.    

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B

2 hours ago, Matthieu Quander said:

I think Bellisseria has had a positive impact on the number of Premium members.  The challenge is sustaining that.  They can't keep adding new regions indefinitely.  Perhaps they should consider temporary regions with themes that get rotated on a schedule.  That would allow them to have a finite number of servers, and keep the people attracted by shiny new things happy.  They could also do seasons.  Smaller areas of permanent regions covering all themes would be needed for those who want a forever home.    

I wouldn't suggest telling people to move out of a home they already have (except for in the old Linden Home regions). Setting up Linden Home regions takes far too much work for temporary regions to make any sense for Linden Lab. Maybe adding a few new house styles will be enough for those who chase the new shiny? I don't think increased Premium sales will be enough to sustain more than a couple more Linden Home themes.

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  • Moles
4 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Would this even be possible though? Would the LDPW be able to convert 2 existing 1024 m parcels in existing regions into one 2048 m parcel? 

Not really, 'reworking' parcel sizes on regions that are already fleshed out and complete would pretty much mean a rework of the entire region from scratch.

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On 2/19/2024 at 11:09 AM, Persephone Emerald said:

With over 2500 empty Chalet parcels, I'm starting to come around to the idea of converting some of them to 2048 m parcels with a couple new house styles.

Would this even be possible though? Would the LDPW be able to convert 2 existing 1024 m parcels in existing regions into one 2048 m parcel? 

I think the main issue here is that none of the existing 1024's are actually adjacent; they all have Linden land surrounding them. So in order to join them you're going to have to make the easement into a small Linden parcel, join it up with the other two, carve a replacement microparcel off your new larger parcel to get that back down to 2048 and then merge it back into the rest of the Linden land. Obviously your new 2048 is going to have the parcel centre in a completely different place to your previous two so you're going to need to re-landscape with a new mailbox, new walls/paths/hedges/plants... And now it looks weird surrounded by 1024's so you're going to have to alter at least half of those in the immediate vicinity in exactly the same way. This is a boring task that can't be automated, and the Moles are not going to be spending time and energy on it when they could be rolling out desirable new 2048's.

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I am currently trying out fantasseria, and have worked out a deal* with my brain to let the landscape make sense, and under those new circumstances the place is actually quite beautiful.
So what I was wondering, is if anybody noticed if the number of available fantasy homes changed after the treehouses were released?
I'm talking later on than the novelty rush stage.
If there was no real long term change then this could affect how the Moles think about, say, adding new home styles to the Log Sub-continent.

* The deal is that Raspberry is renting a property in Norfolk. She has always wanted to go there and sail a boat on the broads (canals). Once arrived the place is a little different to her expectations, but the Edwardian style home is lovely, the land is as flat as she might expect, and she thinks that maybe that mushroom omelette she ate at a motorway service station on the way down has given her a visual migraine.

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53 minutes ago, Raspberry Crystal said:

I am currently trying out fantasseria, and have worked out a deal* with my brain to let the landscape make sense, and under those new circumstances the place is actually quite beautiful.
So what I was wondering, is if anybody noticed if the number of available fantasy homes changed after the treehouses were released?
I'm talking later on than the novelty rush stage.
If there was no real long term change then this could affect how the Moles think about, say, adding new home styles to the Log Sub-continent.

* The deal is that Raspberry is renting a property in Norfolk. She has always wanted to go there and sail a boat on the broads (canals). Once arrived the place is a little different to her expectations, but the Edwardian style home is lovely, the land is as flat as she might expect, and she thinks that maybe that mushroom omelette she ate at a motorway service station on the way down has given her a visual migraine.

Love your deal Raspberry!

I don’t have any figures to hand to substantiate the effect, but I remember the available chalets being around 2.5k and the logs around 2k with the fantasy being in between. Having just checked the latest numbers there seems little change.

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4 hours ago, Raspberry Crystal said:

I am currently trying out fantasseria, and have worked out a deal* with my brain to let the landscape make sense, and under those new circumstances the place is actually quite beautiful.
So what I was wondering, is if anybody noticed if the number of available fantasy homes changed after the treehouses were released?
I'm talking later on than the novelty rush stage.
If there was no real long term change then this could affect how the Moles think about, say, adding new home styles to the Log Sub-continent.

* The deal is that Raspberry is renting a property in Norfolk. She has always wanted to go there and sail a boat on the broads (canals). Once arrived the place is a little different to her expectations, but the Edwardian style home is lovely, the land is as flat as she might expect, and she thinks that maybe that mushroom omelette she ate at a motorway service station on the way down has given her a visual migraine.

I think the treehouses are both brilliant and fantastic. I upped an alt to premium to get one and kept it for a few months. But my brain goes tilt in the beautiful but visually very busy fantasy lands. I find myself feeling fatigued if I stay there very long. Maybe there is just too much pretty stuff to look at... idk.. but I dont do well staying in fantasyland for more than very short periods of time.

Fantiserria is so incredibly beautiful and the treehouses are a favorite house of mine...  I wish my "brain" would let me stay there longer.

Edited by Teresa Firelight
fix small typo
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