Rowan Amore Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 I expect now, along with needing to know my A/S/L and whether I voice, men will insist we have these toys and this viewer? Wonderful! 🙄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aishagain Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Wow! this certainly woke afew lurkers up. I am minded of the old adage that "Empty vessels make the most noise". I suppose it depends on what is in that vessel. I feel sure this was tried once before some years back. It withered and died through lack of support and unreliability. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: I expect now, along with needing to know my A/S/L and whether I voice, men will insist we have these toys and this viewer? Wonderful! 🙄 John: "The viewer tells me that you are not actually using your Lovense toy. I want my L$ back!" Worker: "Um, what? The interface must not be working right!" John: "I'm going to leave you a bad review on Yecch!" Worker: "Um, ok.." John: * tp's off * ETA: They will probably also want photographic proof... Edited January 11 by Love Zhaoying 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 I wouldn't be using any viewer that had support for RL sex toys. If support for them were in every viewer then that would most likely be the end of my SL activities. I'm not interested in installing sex-enabled apps. If they were third-party plugins that people added themselves, no problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfie Reanimator Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: John: "The viewer tells me that you are not actually using your Lovense toy. I want my L$ back!" Worker: "Um, what? The interface must not be working right!" John: "I'm going to leave you a bad review on Yecch!" Worker: "Um, ok.." John: * tp's off * ETA: They will probably also want photographic proof... Don't worry, the Lovense app itself already tells your partner which specific toy(s) are connected. Edited January 11 by Wulfie Reanimator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 minute ago, Wulfie Reanimator said: Don't worry, the Lovense app itself already tells your partner which specific toy(s) are connected. Right, but my point (poorly made, too much noise and no noise filter) was that it probably doesn't tell if the toy is actually "being used" (in or on someone's body). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfie Reanimator Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Right, but my point (poorly made, too much noise and no noise filter) was that it probably doesn't tell if the toy is actually "being used" (in or on someone's body). I figured, but the toys themselves don't even know that. 😋 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 7 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said: I wouldn't be using any viewer that had support for RL sex toys. If support for them were in every viewer then that would most likely be the end of my SL activities. I'm not interested in installing sex-enabled apps. If they were third-party plugins that people added themselves, no problem. There is already lovense capable furniture which works quite well I might add. It is true though that the toys can't really tell if you are using them. All you have to do is make the motion of it. They are a bit pricy though so if you buy them just to fake out other people it is kinda a waste of your money. Hey, I get it - sorta. To a lot of people this isn't something that they are into. Then don't use them. A lot of military couples use them as they are often deployed for long periods of time. I'm not into BDSM but It doesn't affect my experience in SL because I just don't engage with those people. I suspect that these "toy" aren't being used for a casual experience but even if they were if both parties consent they I don't see the harm. There are quite a few activities in SL that are much worse than this. People want LL to stop hiding the adult side of SL yet when something like this comes out all of a sudden it's a terrible thing. Yes, I know LL didn't release this but I'm just sayin' 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Sam Bellisserian said: Hey, I get it - sorta. To a lot of people this isn't something that they are into. Then don't use them. I don't intend to but that also extends to installation of any viewer that should it include it. 32 minutes ago, Sam Bellisserian said: People want LL to stop hiding the adult side of SL yet when something like this comes out all of a sudden it's a terrible thing. Those are different groups of people, not the same group of people being inconsistent. For example: If LL never promotes the adult side of SL, it wouldn't bother me one bit. That has always been my stance. That doesn't mean I would mind at all if they do a bit of "Spicy" promotion but supporting sex toys would be long way from that in my mind. 32 minutes ago, Sam Bellisserian said: Yes, I know LL didn't release this but I'm just sayin' I'm aware of that and the very low likelihood considering LL doesn't even have RLV in the their viewer. However, there was a post further back expressing that it should be integrated into all viewers including LL's and so that part of my post was in response to that really in a hypothetical sense. Edited January 11 by Gabriele Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 32 minutes ago, Sam Bellisserian said: People want LL to stop hiding the adult side of SL yet when something like this comes out all of a sudden it's a terrible thing. I doubt the same people have both views, and suspect one group "want LL to stop hiding the adult side of SL", and another group think "when something like this comes out all of a sudden it's a terrible thing". I'm fine with it either way, so long as it isn't thrust into, or upon me without consent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathrine Jansma Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Lovense is a bit weak on (public) API documentation for the tools, so you get other implementations like buttplug.io that allows control without any cloud service leaking data around. The current QR code/numerical code linking stuff looks a bit like OAuth2 device flow (https://oauth.net/2/device-flow/) happening to access the cloud service that connects to the app running on a phone or desktop machine. Not sure about the details, as i haven't found any detailed docs how to register the client, probably needs registration. (maybe hidden somewhere in here https://developer.lovense.com/docs/standard-solutions/standard-api.html ) So sure, a viewer could implement some scripting bridge to this API, but that works somewhat okayish with the available LSL HUD based solutions already. Those probably just use the HTTP out capabilities in LSL to call some REST API with the given access tokens. Its a bit like the Firestorm Viewer side AO, it can all be done with LSL script, but might work better with integration into the viewer. For example there is some noticeable lag with the HUD based solutions. So if any TPV developer wanted to integrate a Lovense style Bridge to mimick some inworld HUDs, thats basically doable and not even hard. There seems to be some websocket based 'Lovense toy event' API that would not be implementable in a HUD, so maybe their viewer supports that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfie Reanimator Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 5 hours ago, Kathrine Jansma said: Lovense is a bit weak on (public) API documentation for the tools, so you get other implementations like buttplug.io that allows control without any cloud service leaking data around. The current QR code/numerical code linking stuff looks a bit like OAuth2 device flow (https://oauth.net/2/device-flow/) happening to access the cloud service that connects to the app running on a phone or desktop machine. Not sure about the details, as i haven't found any detailed docs how to register the client, probably needs registration. (maybe hidden somewhere in here https://developer.lovense.com/docs/standard-solutions/standard-api.html ) You can also connect to the user's device (with the app which controls the toys) directly, without accessing Lovense's cloud services. I have scripts for this, but it's not as user-friendly as communicating through Lovense. It requires the device's public IP and possibly port-forwarding depending on the situation. (The phone app hosts itself and accepts HTTP requests for controlling connected toys. The PC IP is easy enough to get automatically.) Edited January 12 by Wulfie Reanimator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Monty Linden Posted January 12 Lindens Share Posted January 12 8 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said: Right, but my point (poorly made, too much noise and no noise filter) was that it probably doesn't tell if the toy is actually "being used" (in or on someone's body). An open API for the anonymous exchange of PGP-signed biometric data. Hmmm... 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 8 hours ago, Rowan Amore said: I expect now, along with needing to know my A/S/L and whether I voice, men will insist we have these toys and this viewer? Wonderful! 🙄 Just do what all the lovense enabled performers in SL do .. leave the device buzzing to itself on your desk. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animats Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 I'm reading this, and thinking, am I going to have to support this thing in Sharpview? Useful third party technical info source with open source code. Another technical info source with open source code. Linux/Win/Mac support! It's a "Human Interface Device", which is the standard way computers talk to keyboards, mice, joysticks, game controllers, etc. HID is mostly for input, but it can do output. A typical output application is a game steering wheel with force feedback. and vibration. It might be possible to interface these things via the upcoming SL game controller interface. The data connection to the device is over Bluetooth Low Energy radio. This is very short range. Lovense really wants you to connect to it by going through your phone and their servers. If it's set up that way, they know your IP address and what you're doing with the thing. That's how those SL HUDs which talk to Lovense devices work. Viewer support isn't required. The data path is SL viewer to outgoing HTTP to Lovense server to phone client to device. It's possible to connect to the things without going through their servers. There's enough open source code to allow avoiding Lovense servers. In fact, the amount of effort that's gone into open source code for these things is substantial. There's even Rust support. There are multiple vendors selling related products. They're all incompatible, but not hugely different. Anybody implementing a direct interface should probably have product liability insurance. Especially if support is provided for devices with electric shock features. (Yes, they exist.) I'm not going to support this in Sharpview in the near term, unless LL supports it as part of the game controller interface. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfie Reanimator Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 48 minutes ago, animats said: I'm reading this, and thinking, am I going to have to support this thing in Sharpview? No way. 🙂 48 minutes ago, animats said: It's a "Human Interface Device", which is the standard way computers talk to keyboards, mice, joysticks, game controllers, etc. HID is mostly for input, but it can do output. A typical output application is a game steering wheel with force feedback. and vibration. It might be possible to interface these things via the upcoming SL game controller interface. Lovense toys are "output devices" unlike game controllers, they're more like speakers. They don't send any button inputs to any device they're connected to. (Bluetooth or USB -- though USB is only used for charging.) Edited January 12 by Wulfie Reanimator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 hours ago, Monty Linden said: An open API for the anonymous exchange of PGP-signed biometric data. Hmmm... It can use an "ACK/NAK" exchange called the "Cathy Protocol". (Cathy was a comics character in the 80's-90's who said "ACK!" a lot.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, animats said: I'm reading this, and thinking, am I going to have to support this thing in Sharpview? That sounds pointy and painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said: Just do what all the lovense enabled performers in SL do .. leave the device buzzing to itself on your desk. Way to be a buzzkill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathrine Jansma Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said: They don't send any button inputs to any device they're connected to. They can do that with the "Toy Event API". That can cause Websocket events for Buttons pressed on the devices. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfie Reanimator Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 5 minutes ago, Kathrine Jansma said: They can do that with the "Toy Event API". That can cause Websocket events for Buttons pressed on the devices. Huh, apparently so! Only 3 of their toys (Nora, Solace, Max 2) have supported buttons, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beq Janus Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 7 hours ago, Monty Linden said: An open API for the anonymous exchange of PGP-signed biometric data. Hmmm... I was reading (https://nordvpn.com/blog/lovense-app-malware/) apparently their buttplug has a man-in-the-middle vulnerability.... the mind boggles. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfie Reanimator Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Beq Janus said: I was reading (https://nordvpn.com/blog/lovense-app-malware/) apparently their buttplug has a man-in-the-middle vulnerability.... the mind boggles. As hilarious as it sounds (and it does), it's a wider problem and not as hilarious. (BLE itself is the problem -- anything that uses BLE has the same problem!) This is the blog post by Giovanni Mellini they're referring to: https://scubarda.com/2017/10/17/hacking-a-bt-low-energy-ble-butt-plug/ Related (not fun) reading: https://www.evilsocket.net/2017/09/23/This-is-not-a-post-about-BLE-introducing-BLEAH/ Edited January 12 by Wulfie Reanimator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathrine Jansma Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) Digital Sex toys have all kinds of hilariously bad security issues. Def Con had some presentation a few years ago with the lovely titel "Adventures In Smart Buttplug Penetration testing" that talked about some Lovense stuff too. There was also some presentation at CCC conference called "Internet of Dongs". Edited January 12 by Kathrine Jansma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, Kathrine Jansma said: Adventures In Smart Buttplug Penetration testing Hmm yes.. Butt plug penetration testing... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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