PBR WOW!

[Frionil Fang]

On 8/14/2024 at 12:38 PM, Luna Bliss said:

The interface on Materialize sucks....anybody know of a better program?  I did figure out how to actually see the interface it but I have to totally change my monitor resolution so that it appears bigger.

Find the program directory, right click the materialize.exe and open properties, choose Compatibility tab. Click the Change high DPI settings button, check the Override high DPI scaling and set it to scaling performed by: system. Does this help?

Edit: if it doesn't, to undo just uncheck the Override checkbox.

Edited August 15 by Frionil Fang

[Arielle Popstar]

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Unfortunately I don't have a 2nd monitor, though monitors are cheap these days so no problem funding it. But there's very little room on my desk for another monitor, though I might be able to squeeze in a small one.  Hopefully, eventually, I'll discover another program like Materialize...I'd even be willing to pay for it.

There are various articulating arms and mounts that would allow a secondary monitor to be mounted to a wall for example and then swung into view when needed. I would have thought 2+ monitors would be a must for higher output creators needing multiple graphical programs running.

[SandorWren]

On 8/13/2024 at 5:01 PM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Ok, proof of concept!

So, as part of a larger program relating to how we display "art" in SL (GIANT canvasses set at full bright crammed together in over-lit cavernous galleries), I'm experimenting with how PBR materials can make a pic on display in-world look better. This also relates to a mini-discussion between myself and @Fluffy Sharkfin about how PBR opens new potential for visual artists in SL.

I took this shot specifically for this experiment. I want 1) to use a normal map to highlight the texture of the brush strokes, 2) to use roughness to give it the kind of sheen one might get from an oil, and 3) to use metallicness to give a metallic reflectivity to select parts of the picture (in this case, a la Klimt, the gold bits).

I created the materials in Materialize -- there are some videos but not much documentation, so a lot of this was guesswork and trial by error. I loaded the resulting materials into the PBR Packer, and imported them into SL, where I created a brand new material.

Here's the result. Everything is a bit "over-done": I need to tone down the normal a bit, and certainly reduce roughness. And the metallicness didn't work at all for some reason; I need to figure out why.

But overall . . . I'm really pretty excited about how well this worked, despite my having only a vague idea what I'm doing!

It's your pic that inspired me to experiment with materials for inworld art. I LIKE the normals you have, and that was what I was going for! in the pic you asked questions about in my thread!! Hopefully later today I will have a chance to experiment more.

Edited August 15 by SandorWren

[Luna Bliss]

36 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Unfortunately I don't have a 2nd monitor, though monitors are cheap these days so no problem funding it. But there's very little room on my desk for another monitor, though I might be able to squeeze in a small one.  Hopefully, eventually, I'll discover another program like Materialize...I'd even be willing to pay for it.

There are various articulating arms and mounts that would allow a secondary monitor to be mounted to a wall for example and then swung into view when needed. I would have thought 2+ monitors would be a must for higher output creators needing multiple graphical programs running.

That looks interesting...the articulating arm...and might work if I see any benefit to even having 2 monitors now that I think of it.

With what I"m doing I just prefer to click on my desktop task bar and pop up Blender, Photoshop or Corel Painter -- much easier than switching to a different monitor.

[Cube Republic]

Having a second monitor in portrait is the way to go for artists in my opinion. When I had two in landscape I always found myself sitting infront of one and not being able to see the far side of the other.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

2 minutes ago, Cube Republic said:

Having a second monitor in portrait is the way to go for artists in my opinion. When I had two in landscape I always found myself sitting infront of one and not being able to see the far side of the other.

Getting an articulated arm and mounting one monitor above the other also works pretty well.  I have a 27" Cintiq with a 27" Samsung directly above it and you quickly get used to just glancing up to look at the second screen.  It also works really well when standing up since if you adjust the angle the Cintiq is at then it sits at about elbow height while the upper monitor is at eye level.

[Cube Republic]

36 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Getting an articulated arm and mounting one monitor above the other also works pretty well.  I have a 27" Cintiq with a 27" Samsung directly above it and you quickly get used to just glancing up to look at the second screen.  It also works really well when standing up since if you adjust the angle the Cintiq is at then it sits at about elbow height while the upper monitor is at eye level.

That sounds good too

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

44 minutes ago, Cube Republic said:

That sounds good too

It's also a great way to free up some desk space!  

[Luna Bliss]

9 hours ago, Frionil Fang said:

On 8/14/2024 at 4:38 AM, Luna Bliss said:

The interface on Materialize sucks....anybody know of a better program?  I did figure out how to actually see the interface it but I have to totally change my monitor resolution so that it appears bigger.

Find the program directory, right click the materialize.exe and open properties, choose Compatibility tab. Click the Change high DPI settings button, check the Override high DPI scaling and set it to scaling performed by: system. Does this help?

Edit: if it doesn't, to undo just uncheck the Override checkbox.

It worked!  Thanks so much  

[Cube Republic]

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

I didn't want to start a whole new thread and figured that people that are enjoying PBR could help.

I'm going to be creating my first light probe boxes. The rooms I want to set them up in aren't all square and rectangular. Some have triangular shapes and/or vaulted ceilings or are T shaped. Can the light probes be shaped to fit the irregular room? How is lighting affected if I can't stretch the box to fit the room shape or up to the ceiling? Does light just stop at the edge of the box?

Edited August 20 by Cinnamon Mistwood

[Orwar]

18 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

Can the light probes be shaped to fit the irregular room?

   As far as I'm aware, the probes can only be either a box or sphere shape. But making an over-sized one of either shape that covers the entire room should still work, for as long as the centre of the probe is inside of the room.

[Love Zhaoying]

I finally had a "positive" PBR WOW experience.

After going somewhere with "good lighting", I came home and saw how relatively terrible I looked under my own "default" lighting.

I changed ONE slider in the lighting and..BOOM 100% improvement.

Who knew? I sure didn't.

 

 

[SandorWren]

20 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I didn't want to start a whole new thread and figured that people that are enjoying PBR could help.

I'm going to be creating my first light probe boxes. The rooms I want to set them up in aren't all square and rectangular. Some have triangular shapes and/or vaulted ceilings or are T shaped. Can the light probes be shaped to fit the irregular room? How is lighting affected if I can't stretch the box to fit the room shape or up to the ceiling? Does light just stop at the edge of the box?

The probes can only be square or spherical. If the edges extend our beyond the walls, they will reflect the EEP. Remember that happened in one of the rooms I was setting up a probe for near the National Blab buildings? If you are working on a mirror, then you don't need a room sized lightprobe. I have one setup by a glass table, that's partially roomsized, that reflects the room nicely, without being overdone.

[SandorWren]

Now I'm curious if it's possible to turn a sculpted prim into a probe!!!

[SandorWren]

3 hours ago, SandorWren said:

Now I'm curious if it's possible to turn a sculpted prim into a probe!!!

It IS possible, but the volume can only be a a cube or Sphere. It's editable to the same degree as any probe is, but has the same limits. You can see the yellow outlines of my original object, but the volume has become the yellow sphere.

[Tara Innis]

Sorry, This is not a good experience for me. I tried it when it first came out and I figured that the developers would have read about the problems and then repaired the viewer by now so I tried it again.  NOPE - It's still a piece of SH@T!

The main problem with 2Life is performance... they just went and made it slower.

Try it again in a year. 

 

 

[AmeliaJ08]

16 minutes ago, Tara Innis said:

Sorry, This is not a good experience for me. I tried it when it first came out and I figured that the developers would have read about the problems and then repaired the viewer by now so I tried it again.  NOPE - It's still a piece of SH@T!

The main problem with 2Life is performance... they just went and made it slower.

Try it again in a year. 

 

 

Help > About Firestorm

Could you copy/paste the output of that here? It gives some information that might help. Performance is fine but it does require certain hardware, if that isn't present then a year won't make any difference.

 

Edited August 21 by AmeliaJ08

[Pixels Sideways]

On 7/28/2024 at 12:33 PM, Rowan Amore said:

I don't buy items made only for Maitreya or Legacy.  They'd get my money if they rigged for Reborn but they don't even though, "It's just a little extra work".  Same premise for PBR items, I suppose.  Don't buy what you can't use.  

That's a totally different issue.

If, for example, a place in SL uses a mix of PBR only and PRB with backup materials or materials only, if people are unable to use a PBR viewer for whatever reason, theyu will not see textures on the PBR only objects.  So people who can't use PBR viewers can't fully experience the build.. .

So it goes beyond purchasing objects.

As was noted, the market will determine how people move forward with purchases but there is nothing they can do about PBR only sim builds if they can't use a PBR viewer as they won;t be able to see anything.  And for a lot of those folks, upgrading a computer that runs viewers with PBR smoothly and low / no lag is not an option.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pixels Sideways]

On 7/28/2024 at 6:48 AM, Flea Yatsenko said:

Just use the base color map as the fallback. Anyone who can't run PBR wasn't running ALM and they weren't looking at a very pretty SL to begin with. They aren't in it for the graphics, they're there because of SL. And some colors and metals being totally wrong because you're using a base color is a million times better for people who can't run PBR than white and grey untextured mesh. I'm really surprised at creators who aren't supporting legacy textures. Seems like a way to earn a lot of 1 star reviews and tank your products.

I use ALM.  On & off, though, depending on the place / environment.  .  And I know others who do as well but are not using PBR viewers yet.

I also create stuff with materials so need to use it for that.

I'm not all fancy pants bing ping pong baked channels etc.  I just genera simple texture maps.

Hopefully there will continue to be builds and content everyone can experience. 

[Rowan Amore]

24 minutes ago, Pixels Sideways said:

That's a totally different issue.

If, for example, a place in SL uses a mix of PBR only and PRB with backup materials or materials only, if people are unable to use a PBR viewer for whatever reason, theyu will not see textures on the PBR only objects.  So people who can't use PBR viewers can't fully experience the build.. .

So it goes beyond purchasing objects.

As was noted, the market will determine how people move forward with purchases but there is nothing they can do about PBR only sim builds if they can't use a PBR viewer as they won;t be able to see anything.  And for a lot of those folks, upgrading a computer that runs viewers with PBR smoothly and low / no lag is not an option.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which wasn't the issue I was responding to.  You said...

On 7/28/2024 at 3:02 PM, Pixels Sideways said:

Why would I buy something I can't see?

Just pointing out that as was noted earlier in the topic by Quartz Mole, objects that have both materials & PBR can be viewed by both PBR and non PBR viewers so pretty much everyone in SL can see them.

Other people on this topic have brought this issue up as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can't control what others buy and use as far as PBR is concerned.  If I were on a non-PBR viewer and a region had a lot of PBR only textures, that WOULD be a bummer but it's their region to do with as they please.   However, I'd still just buy things which had a fallback texture if I were on the old viewer.  Again, my choice.

No one HAS to accommodate people not on a PBR viewer by only using content with fallback textures.  Would it be nice if they did?  Of course but since creators don't always include them, since there is no requirement to do so, should people just not buy at all?   Should creators be forced to do the extra work for those people?  That takes me back to my initial response.  I'd love to buy certain things but I don't use the body they are created for therefore, I can't enjoy those items.  

 

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Pixels Sideways said:

I'm not all fancy pants bing ping pong baked channels etc.

This is quotable!!! 🙂

 

[Pixels Sideways]

On 7/28/2024 at 4:47 AM, Qie Niangao said:

Are you sure you understand how much work you're asking creators to do for you here?

It's not impossible by any means, but it's definitely extra steps, which means creators will only be able to produce less content. For those trying to pay bills with their output, that's an extra tax.

One might think it's no big deal, then, for those of us who never charge for our work, but at least in my case that's exactly backwards: I only do it for the fun of seeing the result and sharing it with those who stumble upon it. I recently made a thing that will briefly be of use to those with or without PBR (and the separate glTF emissivity map really does make a difference), so I took the extra time to do both, but I won't be doing that very often.

 

It wasn't an ask.

It was an observation and as was noted in a reply after, the market will determine what people will buy.  Which is why I don't buy PBR only things.  There is still an overwhelming amount of content that is not PBR only and has both PBR and  legacy textures and just legacy textures/materials..

PBR only will become a problem when sim experiences become substantially PBR and a lot of foks won't be able to enjoy those experiences.

[Love Zhaoying]

I'm having a good PBR experience, so I'm going to start including "PBR" in my search every time I buy things on the Marketplace!!

 

[Pixels Sideways]

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

This is quotable!!! 🙂

 

It's technical terminology for challenged builders like myself.  😁