Land Sales Crash

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I have more issues than just trusting other residents not to take my rental money and poof.  I want my rules to be clear, not subject to change at the whim of someone else.  I don't actually want to deal with people unless it is on my terms.  LL makes a fine landlord.  They leave me alone. I am not very good at remembering to pay rent and I would never want to prepay.  The Lab just takes my "rent" automatically each month, so I don't have to remember anything or have all my stuff returned while I am unceremoniously ejected from someone else's land. I have mainland so I can have the freedom to create my own theme.  If I want the challenge of staying in theme, I have my Belli home for that and the house doesn't count against my prim allotment.  There is nothing for me to gain by working with another resident.  Only something to lose.  I, also, find the chaos of mainland endearing for the most part.

The cowboys in the private land sector are long gone.
The market has completely settled. The times of making quick money is long gone since the land prices on private land are no longer existent and the land barons have to make their profit on rental fees solemnly. 

The long term land barons are all respectable people who want the same thing as the tenants: a thriving place so they stay afloat. You get automated notifications if rent is due.
Customer is king on private land these days (as long as one sticks more or less to the covenant and doesn't grief others)/

Edited January 18 by Sid Nagy

[BilliJo Aldrin]

31 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Hmm. Now that you mention it, would they actually want everyone to move to Belli, or is this happening despite what they may have hoped? All things being equal, wouldn't they make more money off Mainland ownership? It requires some kind of premium subscription to even be able to own it, and there's at least some of us crazy enough to pay additional tier, beyond the "bonus" allotment that would otherwise cover the Belli home.

Its a pity that no one can see how something between the anarchy of mainland and the stupifying dullness of Belli would be welcomed by many people. 

And no I dont mean estates, I mean sims owned and run by LL that are connected to mainland and Belli.

I just cant imagine what they could call this new product though 😂

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

6 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

The cowboys in the private land sector are long gone.
The market has completely settled. The times of making quick money is long gone since the land prices on private land is no longer existent and the land barons have to make their profit on rental fees solemnly. 

The long term land barons are all respectable people who want the same thing as the tenants: a thriving place so they stay afloat. You get automated notifications if rent is due.
Customer is king on private land these days (as long as one sticks more or less to the covenant and doesn't grief others)/

I am sure it is not what it once was, but I am one of those people who is NOT worried about my privacy.  I WANT neighbors and visitors.  I enjoy watching the trains go by and pods moving around. I want people to lose control of their cars when they're going too fast and end up stuck in a bush outside giving us both something to laugh about and a possible new fun friend.  This is where mainland in a busy place is attractive to me.

Zalificent and I are polar opposites in how we use mainland and how we view strangers. I just don't feel the need to insult her for it or tell her she's wrong.  I am glad she has the tools to make her perfect SL and find her privacy.  That is another reason to like mainland. 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

You more or less have trespassers in your home, by camming.  Sure their digital avatar is not in your home

You have it all ass backwards.

I don't give a rat's backside if they can CAM in and stare at my home, I don't give a rat's backside if they can see me, even, what I care about is THEIR griefer trash asses NOT being IN my home.

 

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

This would afford you more privacy

Anything that allows unwanted, unneeded uninvited unauthorised and unwelcome griefer trash IN my home is LESS privacy as far as I am concerned.

 

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

Explorers would no longer have to worry about zero second security orbs, banlines would still exist and should exist for griefers, so would security orbs for people who decided to explore the mainland without phasing out.

They don't have to worry about them now, unless they are over-entitled habitual criminal trespassers. Don't want to be punted and banned by the orb, don't trespass on private property, that is clearly indicated as such by the ban-lines.

 

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

People who are exploring, will not be bothering you

If they are on my land without my permission, they are bothering me.

 

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

and need not worry about being teleported home if they clip your property

Total BS. if they are at ground level, they CANNOT enter the parcel at all, because ban-lines, and never trigger the orb. If they trigger the orb and get punted and banned, it's because they are criminals who deliberately IGNORED the warning given by the existence of the ban-lines.

 

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

Extend ban lines in general to be configurable by the property owners, allow ban lines in more than one location at different heights

More over complicated solutions in search of a problem. Just change ban-lines so they extend from 0 m to 5120 m. Job done, it's far far simpler, ban-lines on, No entry for any unauthorised people. EASY.

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

these are problems that are often repeated on the forums

Always the same people, always the same crap arguments "what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine too, being punted when I exercise my non-right to trespass with impunity breaks my immersion!".

They want immersion? Maybe we should ask LL to waste a ton of resources developing a system where trespassing on private property summons an Official LL Animesh Cop NPC who clubs the trespasser to the ground with their night stick, cuffs them, and drags them off to trespasser jail for a 3 month sentence in the cells. Is that a complicated enough solution in search of a non problem for you?

Or does it FAIL to pander to the over-entitled demands of the anti-privacy trespasser trash league?

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

people get in heated arguments over it and the same thing is discussed repeatedly

And the pro trespasser movement loses, they always lose, they have been consistently losing for 20 years. You'd think that if they were 1/4 as intelligent as they claim to be, they would have learned by now that they are a noisy over-entitled insignificant minority who always lose because, fundamentally, they HAVE NO VALID ARGUMENT.

 

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

The problem does not need to be searched for, it is a simple matter that you and others have expressed, you don't want to be infringed upon.  You don't want trespassers on your land violating your privacy

I'd say you finally got the point, except that then you continue with this "lets waste time effort and money finding ways for the griefers to claim they won and deny home owners the right to keep the trash out of their homes" mallarky all over again, and again, and again, and again.

The answer is NO. Ban-lines to worn, zero second orb to punish those who ignore the warning.

"Private Residential Property - Keep Out

Trespassers will have the Orb's foot broken off in their Ass"

 

Edited January 18 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Qie Niangao]

38 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I just cant imagine what they could call this new product though 😂

(as if oblivious): Hmm… Oh, I know! "Belli-minus-minus" to balance all the Premium Plus / Plus branding.

[Istelathis]

6 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I don't give a rat's backside if they can CAM in and stare at my home, I don't give a rat's backside if they can see me, even, what I care about is THEIR griefer trash asses NOT being IN my home.

What of others that would want the additional privacy?  Perhaps they don't want the camming trespassers taking screenshots of their homes, making note of their furniture, and keeping track of people on their property for griefers to stir up trouble?

8 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Anything that allows unwanted, unneeded uninvited unauthorised and unwelcome griefer trash IN my home is LESS privacy as far as I am concerned.

Which is why we should have banlines.

8 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

And the pro trespasser movement loses, they always lose, they have been consistently losing for 20 years. You'd think that if they were 1/4 as intelligent as they claim to be, they would have learned by now that they are a noisy over-entitled insignificant minority who always lose because, fundamentally, they HAVE NO VALID ARGUMENT.

This is just wrong, the largest continent in the whole of SL shows the opposite to have occurred. 

9 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I'd say you finally got the point, except that then you continue with this "lets waste time effort and money finding ways for the griefers to claim they won and deny home owners the right to keep the trash out of their homes malarky all over again, and again, and again, and again.

This would give you more tools to combat griefers.  Anyone could block out the whole of SL, have privacy beyond what they experience now, while being on mainland.  

It would give explorers the ability to move about through the mainland, where they are welcomed, and warn them on the minimap where they are not wanted, it would solve a lot of issues people have expressed in the past as being concerns of theirs.  If people don't mind travelers on their property, but don't want to be bothered they could have it.  If they don't want any travelers at all, even people camming in on their objects they could have that as well.

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

If they trigger the orb and get punted and banned, it's because they are criminals who deliberately IGNORED the warning given by the existence of the ban-lines.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

19 hours ago, Istelathis said:

It is based on a technique some games use, usually in a story driven event where objects and players are set to a phase.  In one part of the story there may be a beautiful village, with NPCs wandering around, as you advance through the story an event occurs and you are not physically teleported to another location, rather you character is placed into another phase, where they no longer see those NPCs, objects, or even other players set to the previous phase.  Instead, you might find yourself in a burning village, with monsters roaming the streets, all in the same location you had been in previously.  Because your character is in another phase, they now see all of the objects, players, creatures that are in the same phase.

 

Would be nice if they put a content rating filter in the viewer so that someone who is rated for General only would not even see Moderate or Adult rated content. That already removes the problem of some controversial areas but see how a similar feature could be used to filter out different "phases".

[Istelathis]

18 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Would be nice if they put a content rating filter in the viewer so that someone who is rated for General only would not even see Moderate or Adult rated content. That already removes the problem of some controversial areas but see how a similar feature could be used to filter out different "phases".

Exactly, it might even assist with issues SL might have with apple and google for content as well on their mobile viewer, assuming it will be available on either platform and if adult furnishings were a problem.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

9 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Would be nice if they put a content rating filter in the viewer so that someone who is rated for General only would not even see Moderate or Adult rated content

If somebody is "rated for General only" they CANNOT visit M and A rated regions AT ALL. therefore they won't see M and A rated content, so there is NO NEED to waste time, effort, and money developing such a completely POINTLESS un-feature.

 

9 hours ago, Istelathis said:

it might even assist with issues SL might have with apple

Easier to just abandon the MobileLife Fail-Viewer, as it's also a waste of time, effort, and money, and is unlikely to bring in any "vast untapped new market of people who already have NO interest in SL" anyway.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

If somebody is "rated for General only" they CANNOT visit M and A rated regions AT ALL. therefore they won't see M and A rated content, so there is NO NEED to waste time, effort, and money developing such a completely POINTLESS un-feature.

 

Easier to just abandon the MobileLife Fail-Viewer, as it's also a waste of time, effort, and money, and is unlikely to bring in any "vast untapped new market of people who already have NO interest in SL" anyway.

Actually if they are standing on a G rated sim, they can see into an adjacent M sim, but if the residents of the M sim have privacy set properly, they wont see anything. On the other hand, if i’m on the sim on public land they might OMFG, see me naked, since non sexual nudity is allowed on M.

As for the mobile viewer I might put it on my phone, but can’t see much use for it apart from texting, the controls would be hopelessly too small.

It certainly wont attract hoards of new members.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

13 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Would be nice if they put a content rating filter in the viewer so that someone who is rated for General only would not even see Moderate or Adult rated content. That already removes the problem of some controversial areas but see how a similar feature could be used to filter out different "phases".

gawd phases, just what we need. So if i am standing beside someone but they are in a different phase I won’t see them?

Talk about more unnecessary crap.

😂

[Clem Marques]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Actually if they are standing on a G rated sim, they can see into an adjacent M sim, but if the residents of the M sim have privacy set properly, they wont see anything.

Good point. Yet another reason why the privacy settings on Moderate land matter. Some people want an SL experience that does not involve seeing sexual content. I think this is part of why Moderate land has those TOS requirements, it's to keep others from accidentally seeing something inappropriate, since sometimes Moderate regions border General regions.

The Adult regions are in a whole separate continent for a reason. 😆

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

On the other hand, if i’m on the sim on public land they might OMFG, see me naked, since non sexual nudity is allowed on M.

Hadn't thought about that. But I guess there is no way to prevent it. At least it's not that bad haha.

6 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

If somebody is "rated for General only" they CANNOT visit M and A rated regions AT ALL. therefore they won't see M and A rated content, so there is NO NEED to waste time, effort, and money developing such a completely POINTLESS un-feature.

Agreed. A content rating filter like that is not needed.

Edited January 19 by Clem Marques

[Theresa Tennyson]

19 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

 

They don't have to worry about them now, unless they are over-entitled habitual criminal trespassers. Don't want to be punted and banned by the orb, don't trespass on private property, that is clearly indicated as such by the ban-lines.

[. . .]

 

Total BS. if they are at ground level, they CANNOT enter the parcel at all, because ban-lines, and never trigger the orb. If they trigger the orb and get punted and banned, it's because they are criminals who deliberately IGNORED the warning given by the existence of the ban-lines.

 

I decided to test this by seeking out a specific lot with those settings. I was using Catznip, which has the gold standard of mini-maps. At non-assisted avatar flight speeds, my long-suffering testing alt hit the ban lines at basically the exact moment that the lot turned red in the mini map. If they had been flying slightly higher they would have been in the orb with no warning. Bear in mind that I was completely focused on this task rather than, say, the task of flying an airplane.

I'm not saying for a moment that you can't set your lot up the way it is; obviously you can. But rather than trying to cover yourself by referring to real-world laws, you should just say, "I want to knock down all the airplanes!" and laugh like the villain in a Japanese superhero TV show.

 

 

(Not even going to say what lot I was seeking out... Found it, though....)

[Arielle Popstar]

7 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

If somebody is "rated for General only" they CANNOT visit M and A rated regions AT ALL. therefore they won't see M and A rated content, so there is NO NEED to waste time, effort, and money developing such a completely POINTLESS un-feature.

It's the most expedient solution to the "behind closed doors" policy though it does take away some of the justifications for the criminal griefing elements on the mainland who use it as a reason for their 0 second orbs. The onus then is on the resident to set their rating to the level they are comfortable with rather then putting it on the Landowner having to hide their sex toys.

 

3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Actually if they are standing on a G rated sim, they can see into an adjacent M sim, but if the residents of the M sim have privacy set properly, they wont see anything. On the other hand, if i’m on the sim on public land they might OMFG, see me naked, since non sexual nudity is allowed on M.

Again it puts the onus on the resident who does not wish to see adult content rather then the landowner/renter. Your whole thread in General about Amazon is posited with the idea that they would ban SL because of what residents can see. If Amazon were to ever to do something in that regard it would be on the resident not having the ability to choose what they see rather then what others are allowed to show. Sexual rating filters are what other platforms use to prevent that to the degree they work and as a result do not have the reputation that SL does.

d

[Zalificent Corvinus]

55 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

rather than trying to cover yourself

I'm not "trying to cover my self".

 

Your hypothetical "innocent explorer who get's blown into the next county for touching a blade of grass with their toe" does not exist.

 

They would SEE the night yellow tickertape ban-lines, they would know they are unwelcome, and they could not stray onto the property at all.

 

Unless...

Overentitled idiots who disable the ban-line visibility, and thus cripple their own ability to see the warning ban-lines. That's their OWN fault. Not MY problem.

Overentitled idiots who who fly in at high altitude, fraudulently claiming to be "explorers" while flying at a height where they can't see a damn thing on the ground they claim to "explore", they chose to LIE about being explorers, as an excuse to trespass, that's their OWN fault. Not MY problem.

Overentitled idiots, who get so enraged at seeing ban-lines they they immediately try to fly in over top of them to grief the owners, that's their OWN fault. Not MY problem.

 

55 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

referring to real-world

Hmmm, who exactly was it who claimed that because real-world airlines fly many thousands of meter above peoples homes, this "proved" that SL's criminal trespassers had a RIGHT to park their jets in my living room?

Wait... That was you.

YOU tried using "real-world" to fraudulently claim the "Right to trespass". 

 

When somebody puts up warning signs on a fence that say "Warning - Electric Fence - Trespassers will be fried", they don't have to put up 20 ft wide signs every 21 ft. Normal sized signs are adequate, and they only need to put up a limited number of them.

 

Responsibility for avoiding private property lies with the would-be trespasser.

 

55 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

just say, "I want to knock down all the airplanes!"

Not all, just the ones belonging to fake "explorers" who trespass on my property. If they don't want to be knocked out of MY piece of sky, they should go around it.

Not MY problem.

Edited January 19 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Theresa Tennyson]

Just now, Zalificent Corvinus said:

 

Hmmm, who exactly was it who claimed that because real-world airlines fly many thousands of meter above peoples homes, thi "proved" that SL's criminal trespassers had a RIGHT to park their jets in my living room?

Wait... That was you.

YOU tried using "real-world" to fraudulently claim the "Right to trespass". 

It was you who brought up real-world trespassing laws first, Zarifisento-Sama.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

11 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

the criminal griefing elements on the mainland who use it as a reason for their 0 second orbs

Having ban-lines and zero second orbs are NOT a violation of the LL ToS, punting unwelcome trash off ones property is NOT a violation of the LL ToS.

Trespassing on property where you KNOW you are unwelcome with intent to harass, IS a ToS Violation.

Home owners defending their privacy from unwelcome trash are NOT SL Criminals.

Fake Explorers who habitually commit criminal trespass, ARE.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Having ban-lines and zero second orbs are NOT a violation of the LL ToS, punting unwelcome trash off ones property is NOT a violation of the LL ToS.

Trespassing on property where you KNOW you are unwelcome with intent to harass, IS a ToS Violation.

Home owners defending their privacy from unwelcome trash are NOT SL Criminals.

Fake Explorers who habitually commit criminal trespass, ARE.

 

But as Theresa pointed out, it is next to impossible to avoid these things for the traveller intent only on doing some sightseeing. When I think of it in my 15 years I been griefed more by 0 sec Orbs teleporting me home then I ever been by those we commonly call griefers and the effect and inconvenience was worse. When renters gloat in the statistics of how many they have managed to inconvenience with their orbs then it really comes across as LL sanctioned griefing where some use a loophole in the ToS to do so.

[Theresa Tennyson]

Theresa Tennyson muses to herself, "Provocative or Prokofytive? Where do you draw the line?"

[Arielle Popstar]

Quote

Hmmm, who exactly was it who claimed that because real-world airlines fly many thousands of meter above peoples homes, this "proved" that SL's criminal trespassers had a RIGHT to park their jets in my living room?

Pictures or it didn't actually happen!

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

But as Theresa pointed out, it is next to impossible to avoid these things for the traveller intent only on doing some sightseeing

Exactly what "sights" are these fake sight seers doing at 2500 m up? That's the usual height reported by the orb for the trespasser trash it punts.

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

When I think of it in my 15 years I been griefed more by 0 sec Orbs teleporting me home

If habitually trespass on private property where you are not welcome, that is a YOU problem, not a ME problem.

As you are so fond of telling people "you should examine your own behaviour". If you KEEP getting punted off other peoples land, that's because you KEEP trespassing on other peoples land.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

in my 15 years I been griefed more by 0 sec Orbs

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Pictures or it didn't actually happen!

Answer your own over-entitled demands, not MY problem.

[Eowyn Southmoor]

You know, in reality, this whole discussion over banlines / orbs, and travelling, is really much ado about nothing. 

In 2022 I spent 628 hours travelling the SL continents via air, land, and water.  In all that time, the total number of banlines I ran into was 3, the total number of 0-seconf orbs i hit, was also 3 (ironically all 3 of them were in Bellisseria lol).

Last year, 2023, I spent 586 hours doing the same thing.  Total banlines I ran into , 3.  Total 0-second orbs i hit, one, yes, just one single 0-second orb.

The standard response i usually get when imparting this bit of info is "you're lucky". 

No, - luck has nothing to do with it whatsoever.  Since the addition of Bellisseria and the connection to the other continents, there is now more room than ever for explorers to travel, and importantly, there's more safe room than ever before - LL protected waterways, protected land etc.

The reality is, a lot of explorers in SL manage to move around without too much trouble from banlines or orbs (besides from my own stats, I know quite a few others who similarly never really have an issues), but there's always a minority who have issues, and can be very vocal about it, which is why it's brought up regularly here.  Ironically there is far less of a discussion about banlines or orbs in most of the travelling groups I am in, which seems odd.

There are actually two other major reasons why some explorers have trouble though, but neither of them have been mentioned in this thread, and considering how off-topic with the OP it's become, i'm not going to derail it further.

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Exactly what "sights" are these fake sight seers doing at 2500 m up? That's the usual height reported by the orb for the trespasser trash it punts.

If habitually trespass on private property where you are not welcome, that is a YOU problem, not a ME problem.

As you are so fond of telling people "you should examine your own behaviour". If you KEEP getting punted off other peoples land, that's because you KEEP trespassing on other peoples land.

For me I really started to see the problem when I rented a waterfront on the mainland and bought a boat to cruise the waterways all around those regions. Multiple times I would be navigating through a channel that seemed clear only to hit some 0 sec orb that extended well into the waterway that then sent me directly home, do not pass go, leaving me and the friends with me in a jumble in our respective homes and the boat in lost and found. Trying to recoordinate everyone and rerezz the boat to continue the journey was too much work and we gave up. All because some self entitled dipsh*t who never came inworld anyway was trying to protect his water rights? He was an LL sanctioned griefer plain and simple. Probably gloating over how many boating parties he managed to mess up.

SO I examined myself and came to the conclusion that the waterfront home, the boat was all just a waste of money and the waterway touring a lie about what can be done in S/L.