Land Sales Crash

[Sid Nagy]

16 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It is indeed confusing information above: Where does "normal user-owned mainland" fit in? Is that "Linden Owned"? Where does Belli (and legacy Linden Homes) fit in - is it also "Linden Owned"?

Last time I checked it was not privately owned, so my guess is that Belli is Linden Owned land.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

15 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

And happiest for them: none o' them pesky newbies around, ever.

You KEEP making this totally unsubstantiated claim that "ban-lines and orbs" preventing over-entitled trash from trespassing in peoples homes is somehow responsible for "noobs deciding not to stay in SL".

 

The problem with that nonsense is simple.

The ONLY people who would be put off by NOT being allowed to commit criminal trespass, are the ones who came here with NO intention of buying a subscription, or shopping or renting anything, the ones who only came here to grief and troll people.

 

And they wouldn't stay even if they WERE allowed to commit criminal trespass, because they would quickly accumulate enough Abuse Reports for griefing and trolling, that the Lab would ban them regardless.

 

So, in fact, the people YOU claim are driven off by not being allowed in my home, are in fact, the same people LL drive off for being ToS violating trash anyway.

 

So, no ACTUAL loss. Banning ban-lines and outlawing orbs won't "save" those poor hard done by griefer trash, because, they are griefer trash.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

16 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It is indeed confusing information above: Where does "normal user-owned mainland" fit in? Is that "Linden Owned"? Where does Belli (and legacy Linden Homes) fit in - is it also "Linden Owned"?

Last time I checked it was not privately owned, so my guess is that Belli is Linden Owned land.

Then, the stats truly surprise me - that there are so many more Private Regions.

[Sid Nagy]

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Then, the stats truly surprise me - that there are so many more Private Regions.

Mainland is simply not everybodies thing.
I only visit mainland when I teleport to a store, museum or event. I never explore. That has nothing to do with banlines or not, but most of mainland is desert, low hanging platforms, crappy buildings... all in all, much kudos who likes to live there, but it I'm not one of them. I like some covenant protection where I live.

Plus living in the Netherlands in RL, I would have to fork up 21% VAT above the normal tier rates, so I'm a private land person. There is no VAT charge then. There seem to be more people like me in SL when it comes to land holding.

Edited January 17 by Sid Nagy

[Zalificent Corvinus]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Then, the stats truly surprise me - that there are so many more Private Regions.

The mainland continents, intercontinental seas and waterways, Horizons, the whole of Berllicosia, all of that is "LL Owned Estate".

The private estate regions are "NON-LL Owned Estates".

 

Yes, private estate sims outnumber LL estate sims, they have done for years There are posts on this forum from 5 or 10 years ago pointing out to people that 2/3rds of the grid was private estates, and that it's where LL make the bulk of their land based revenue.

Gridsurvey used to state that the estates made up 80% of LL's estimated land based earnings, mostly financed by the estate companies renting land to the 90% of SL's population who were NOT premium, and thus, weren't allowed to buy mainland.

 

That's why people laugh at Captain Oldbies who rant about "free to play riff raff with no subscriptions contribute nothing", because the stats prove the Captain Oldbies wrong every single time.

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Mainland is simply not everybodies thing.

I get that, and your VAT points.

I just didn't know so many people "bought" Private Regions to own, and also that "companies" deal in "renting" so many Private Regions. That combination somehow overwhelmed Linden Land over the years and I missed it. A lot happens in 17 years when you don't pay attention.

[Theresa Tennyson]

25 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

This latest pathetic argument of yours was tried before too, it failed too.

 

RL: II can't shoot down an airplane above my home. BUT...

The Civil Aviation Authority CAN revoke the pilot's licence of any jerk who cruises over peoples homes BELOW the minimum legal overflight height specified for the area.

 

In SL, the overflight height for blacklisted privacy hating airborne griefer trash is 5km.

 

 

Question: (And now we're specifically talking about you, so you should be pleased.)

We have a SL pilot flying an airplane. Let's say they're at 200 meters above ground level. They haven't had any sort of interaction with you. They have no desire to spend a second longer over any given lot than the time it takes to cross it at a steady pace, much less spending time on your individual lot -- let's say that the mid-twenty-teens were traumatic for them for some reason.

But their flight path happens to take them over your lot. What happens, and why?

 

[Rowan Amore]

3 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Can you shoot down airplanes?

Can people without any vehicle, fly into your home that's floating in the air in RL?    

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

30 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Question: (And now we're specifically talking about you, so you should be pleased.)

We have a SL pilot flying an airplane. Let's say they're at 200 meters above ground level. They haven't had any sort of interaction with you. They have no desire to spend a second longer over any given lot than the time it takes to cross it at a steady pace, much less spending time on your individual lot -- let's say that the mid-twenty-teens were traumatic for them for some reason.

But their flight path happens to take them over your lot. What happens, and why?

 

On MY parcel in particular?

Ok... But you won't like the answer.

 

1 The Vehicle Fanatic approaches the parcel, their mini-map shows the parcel in RED, because I have ban-lines up, as REQUIRED by the LL Official "Behind Closed Doors" policy.

2. Because they are an arrogant vehicle fanatic, they ignore the clear warning that they are unwanted, unneeded, uninvited and unwelcome, and attempt to enter the parcel regardless.

3. They enter the parcel, and, just in case they are as "accidental and innocent" as is often ( usually fraudulently ) claimed, they will be tolerated for the first 2 m of their incursion, so they don't get "blown into the next county for touching a blade of grass with a toe"

4. If they deliberately choose not to veer off, and procede MORE than 2 m  into the parcel, then there is a small delay until the orb notices them, this is usually about a 1/2 second, as I didn't set the scan rate too high. Then the orb notices their intrusion, and punts them out, and adds them to the black list. By this stage they are usually a good 20-40 m into the parcel, hardly "accidental and innocent".

5. ( optional ) They IM me and demand some over-entitled nonsense like unbanning, guest listed on the orb and invited to the land group.

6. ( conditional on 5. ) I Abuse Report them for ToS violating Harassment, and refuse their insane demands.

7. ( conditional on 5. ) I mute and derender them.

8. I relax and carry on enjoying my privacy to work on my build slab, or socialising with INVITED guests, without the over-entitled intruders.

 

But you've been told this before.

 

It's JUST like RL

*ding dong*

"I wonder who is at the door at this time of night?"

/me opens door

"Hi I'm from the Jerkova's Witless, can I come in and try to convince you to go insane in the name of Jerkova, God of Over-entitled home invader trash?"

"No, fork off and dye"

/me slams the door in their face.

 

 

Edited January 17 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Qie Niangao]

33 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I just didn't know so many people "bought" Private Regions to own, and also that "companies" deal in "renting" so many Private Regions. That combination somehow overwhelmed Linden Land over the years and I missed it. A lot happens in 17 years when you don't pay attention.

Although the grid started out totally Linden-owned Mainland, Private Estate regions have outnumbered Linden Lab's for a long time. (That link is a copyrighted time-series chart from gridsurvey.com showing Linden/Private estate region counts all the way back to late 2006 when private Estates were already in the mix—and Anshe was on the cover of Business Week.)

 

[Love Zhaoying]

28 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

3 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Can you shoot down airplanes?

Can people without any vehicle, fly into your home that's floating in the air in RL?    

You used actual logic against a facetious argument, no fair!!1!!1!

 

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

and Anshe was on the cover of Business Week

I suppose all it took was one new-making "land baron" to start a trend.

From there it was all "downhill".

[Qie Niangao]

13 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

their mini-map shows the parcel in RED, because I have ban-lines up

Oh yeah? When does this happen exactly? How much warning time/distance does that provide? What if they're crossing in from another region? And speaking of "LL Official", which viewers show that on the MiniMap at all?

(And a two meter grace interval? That's just for comic relief, right?)

[Eowyn Southmoor]

53 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Mainland is simply not everybodies thing.
I only visit mainland when I teleport to a store, museum or event. I never explore. That has nothing to do with banlines or not, but most of mainland is desert, low hanging platforms, crappy buildings... all in all, much kudos who likes to live there, but it I'm not one of them. I like some covenant protection where I live.

 

"I never explore"

"most of mainland is desert, low hanging platforms, crappy buildings"

If you never explore, then how do know what "most" of mainland is? 

Sure, there is all of those things you mentioned, though not in high enough quantities to be counted as "most".  There is also a lot of really nice places on mainland, some of which are spread out in areas of multiple regions and are fantastic places to explore or even live at in some cases... but then you wouldn't know that since  you never explore

A lot of people in this thread (who am i kidding, in this forum as a whole), tend to make statements that for the most part only serve to prove that they know far less about a subject than they think they do.  (Not singling this particular comment out as an example of it, just making a general observation)

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

A lot of people in this thread (who am i kidding, in this forum as a whole), tend to make statements that for the most part only serve to prove that they know far less about a subject than they think they do.  (Not singling this particular comment out as an example of it, just making a general observation)

I totally agree.  Second Life is SO big, that unless you actually check it out - not once years ago, but every so often - and check out a LARGE area, you probably don't really know.  <= Honest

Thank goodness for those BonnieBots and all their useful surveys!   <= Snark

 

[Sid Nagy]

18 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

"I never explore"

"most of mainland is desert, low hanging platforms, crappy buildings"

If you never explore, then how do know what "most" of mainland is?

I have done a few attempts in the past, but following most roads is just boring.
And as I wrote, I regularly end up in mainland because visiting something like a shop, museum or event. So I have seen enough of mainland to have an opinion.

I've seen the totally overpriced chunks of land in nicer parts of mainland, I inspected them already, to have a good chuckle or two out of those prices.

Again, there are people who love mainland, kudos for them, but I'm not one of them.
There are others who don't like Belli or private land.
And there are even those who don't like any of the three kinds. They leave by the droves after signing up and looking around a bit.

Quote

A lot of people in this thread (who am i kidding, in this forum as a whole), tend to make statements that for the most part only serve to prove that they know far less about a subject than they think they do.  (Not singling this particular comment out as an example of it, just making a general observation)

Disqualifying other people because they have a different opinion, I don't know.....
Mileages do vary a lot everywhere, RL and SL in my book.

Edited January 17 by Sid Nagy

[BilliJo Aldrin]

17 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Oh yeah? When does this happen exactly? How much warning time/distance does that provide? What if they're crossing in from another region? And speaking of "LL Official", which viewers show that on the MiniMap at all?

(And a two meter grace interval? That's just for comic relief, right?)

Isn’t there a hud you can buy that shows banlines?

[Love Zhaoying]

16 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I have done a few attempts in the past, but following most roads is just boring.
And as I wrote, I regularly end up in mainland because visiting something like a shop, museum or event. So I have seen enough of mainland to have an opinion.

I've seen the totally overpriced chunks of land in nicer parts of mainland, I inspected them already, to have a good chuckle or two out of those prices.

Again, there are people who love mainland, kudos for them, but I'm not one of them.
There are others who don't like Belli or private land.
And there are even those who don't like any of the three kinds. They leave by the droves after signing up and looking around a bit.

Disqualifying other people because they have a different opinion, I don't know.....
Mileages do vary a lot everywhere, RL and SL in my book.

At least you don't say, "everyone who disagrees with me is wrong!"  

For that, I respect you more than I do some other people, for having your opinion while not forcing it on others.

[Qie Niangao]

Just now, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Isn’t there a hud you can buy that shows banlines?

Probably, but if so, it couldn't do it for a parcel across an approaching region border (limitation of llGetParcelFlags—and spoiler alert, neither does Firestorm, at least in my experience).

If I thought it would help, I'd script one up and put it for free on the Marketplace if it's not already, but its abilities would be so limited as to be practically deceptive… even if every explorer somehow knew to look for it. 

Thing is, again, I'm not saying the folks who use the orbs and banlines shouldn't do it now—they paid for it. I'm saying they should never have been sold that ability because it's a really unwelcoming experience. It doesn't help that folks who use these tools may not understand just how treacherous a trap they're setting, but the original sin was long, long ago—and committed by the Lab.

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

On MY parcel in particular?

Ok... But you won't like the answer.

I'm delighted with your answer, because it makes your side of the argument look like the unreasonable ones.

Issac Newton called; an object using physical motion, like an airplane, can't completely change direction instantly. The "red mini-map" thing is a canard - even if you're using a viewer that shows them, they only show up when you're almost to the lot. Even five seconds of warning would, surprisingly enough, mean you'd find a lot fewer "arrogant vehicle fanatics" on your ban list.

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Even five seconds of warning would, surprisingly enough, mean you'd find a lot fewer "arrogant vehicle fanatics" on your ban list.

Assuming the point of 5 seconds is that perhaps an airborne vehicle could make it all the way through the parcel..

Then that vehicle could "see" inside the parcel (past the "2 meter mark"), defeating the referenced "behind closed doors" policy.

Not that I'm in agreement, I'm just curious about that part of the conflict.  If "one of the big" reasons is to provide the "behind closed doors" mechanism, then what?

Personally, I think that banlines should go all the way up to orbit. Aircraft, shmaircraft! (They can find someplace "friendly" to fly.) Not that I "like" banlines, I just accept them as a concept "because they exist" and think that so long as they exist, they may as well be effective..why should someone need both banlines and orbs?

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Personally I dont care if people fly over my land, I often get notices of people entering the property 3000 m from the visitor detector. 

But then again I dont mind logging in and finding someone using my bed, unless of course, they say, hey we are playing here, so eff off.

Never ever say that to the property owner, and always be sure you lock your camera on them before banning and kicking them 😂

[Persephone Emerald]

I'm starting to think LL should have left airspace between 1000 m and 2000 m open to public movement, but they aren't going to change this now.

I agree that people should be able to keep others out of their property, even if it's rented virtual space. However, I see no reasonable reason to teleport them home, unless that property is on a private estate. Bouncing them to the closest public land would serve the same purpose for protecting one's privacy.

Oh, but some people want to inflict pain and suffering because someone dared to step a virtual toe onto their virtual property! 🙃  

In RL there are laws against this. If a teenager drives onto your driveway, comes up to your front door and knocks on it in the middle of the night, it is illegal to open your door and shoot them. It doesn't matter if you thought they were there to harass you or not. You also don't have the ability to send them home or even to punt them into the public road that runs in front of your property. 🙄

I purpose that LL should disable the ability to send others home on Linden owned land. They are the owners and landlords of this land, so they would be within their rights to remove this ability. People could still use banlines or zero second orbs to bounce potential intruders to the nearest public land. Estate owners would also still be able to send people home for any reason and to allow their tenants to do the same.

p.s.

My primary reason for suggesting this change is so new users won't feel like SL is a hostile and unusable environment. I don't care if you don't like newbies. Linden Lab needs them to keep SL profitable. 

Edited January 17 by Persephone Emerald
to add p.s.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

In RL there are laws against this. If a teenager drives onto your driveway, comes up to your front door and knocks on it in the middle of the night, it is illegal to open your door and shoot them.

Not to dispute your statement, but:  It is hard to tell that it is illegal some places.

IJS.

 

[Katherine Heartsong]

On 11/27/2023 at 2:24 PM, Katherine Heartsong said:

Not sure. The land prices are getting too high for most folks I think.

I know I always convert back to US$ before considering a parcel to buy and my appetite to go much past 10–15K has greatly diminished in the past year or so.

Now, oddly enough, just last month I had a reasonably well known land seller offer me 100,000L for my Blake accessible 1/4 sim which I thought was nuts. I told them no, and they promised to up their offer. To me that's silly. That's $400 or the price in RL of a small car repair bill. But what struck me was how much they wanted it which is tempting, but then I noticed I can't get anything near as nice with the same sort of water access anywhere else for anything less than what he wants. They're trying to flip it and make 50K+.

Decent land prices are insane, and do not get me started on the 1024 with the double prims. Asking/expecting/getting those prices indicates a severe head injury to me.

This all said ... I still see lots of cute little 1024s though in the Mainland Sales forum for under 5K that do seem nice for someone looking for a basic parcel.

Oddly enough I put those two adjacent 8192s up for sale at a decent price for Blake access, but enough that I would actually make a point to take the sales proceeds back into cash via the Tillia mechanism, and voila, they sold within a week. I had figured I'd have to wait to sell them and just let them sit there for months. Nope. So it may be weak the land market but it's not dead. I'm not watching the whole sim that used to have a marina beside my new 4096 home. Direct access to the coast and to Blake. It fronts a LL general water sim and is south facing. This will sell fast.