Counterproductive themes

[Pat Starship]

So today I ran into a girls only lesbian club/mall

Personally I find a theme like this  and to ban a user over gender of their avatar is counterproductive to a social network, face it you might as well say No black AVs,No white AV and so on.It is racial prejudice to pre judge a person  by the outside and not the content with in.

So I tp to this club as it has a lot of people and I am here to be social :D

On tp in every one is nice,a lot of people and good music.Freindly staff greeted me and the DJ  was playing request.OK so maybe I am wrong?

LOL...WRONG...I hate to type ,it is a real pain in my butt and I rather use the mic,People acted like I was almost being rude if I told them to turn on their mic I hate to type.The only people on the Mic was my self and the DJ....67 people in this sim and 65 of them all had some  reason they never use a mic..I am sorry but I find all that to be a bunch of BS.A mic cost 8 dollars at wal mart....

In SL I have been to a few gay clubs,every one was nice.It was male and female open to any one that wanted to have fun.I do not get this whole fake lesbian  thing...

[Mayalily]

SL has a huge single's community and SL is kind of like an internet dating website in some ways.  There are intermingled and gay singles club where I live in RL.  However, if someone is looking for a partner and they are gay, they would go to a gay club in RL to find a date or to start a relationship.  Clubs are often dating venues in RL and SL.  If someone just wants to go a club just for the sake of hearing music or the Dj in RL or to meet a friend, then they are not going to a gay nor straight club for a date nor to look for a relationship; they're just there to hear the music 'cuz they may already have a rl partner/significant other. 

It is kind of hard if you have a gay friend and cannot go there, but you could always teleport them to a club where u r at.

I doubt in 20 years or so, maybe less, who knows, SL could be all intermingled?  Maybe so, maybe not, because trying to hunt for a sim that suits a person is a difficult task as there are bizzillions of sims. 

It's probably done this way because sometimes searching for the sims that would attract a person is like searching for a needle in a haystack, and since SL is kind of a dating/partnering website, designations help a person find what they are looking for.

Hope that makes some sense. 

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

SL has over 9000 other places to visit.  The majority of which are resident owned.  If some lesbians want to make their all gay girl bar, more power to them.  They're going to typically attract people they like and eject anyone they don't.  ()

And, yes, to many people mic is rude.  You were being rude by asking people to do what they choose not to do.  People CHOOSE not to use their mic.  Everybody knows mics are cheap.  It's not like they're in debt to you and owe you the sound of their voice.  I don't use mic either.  I have mics.  In fact, the room I use SL from is practically a recording studio.  But, I just don't use them.  The rest of the time, I type.  I like it that way.  No excuses.  No reason.  I just type.  Capiche? ()

Now, what makes you think they're fake lesbians?  Any genuine lesbians I've been friends with have eventually 'proven' themselves over time.  But, it takes kindness, trust, and care.  Not frigg'n interrogation and "guydar".  Many 'women-only' communities have women, who are not lesbians, but have a strong aversion to men.  Either because of abuse, general anxieties, or whatever reason they may have.  You, being a man, and belittling them for their choice; you are NOT improving their situation or outlook at all... (=_=)

If you want to know something about someone just for the sake of knowing it, believe me, you'll be the last to get the truth.  People are not your research subjects. Nobody is bound to cater to you and you alone. SL is by no means a digital 'breeding ground'. Not everyone is here to date everyone else.  There are as many reasons to be in SL as there are reasons to stay alive for another day.  Don't shoehorn such a broad and dynamic environment into a little bubble of some digital lonely hearts club.  =^-^=

Don't like where you're at?  Go elsewhere.  You've been to places where "everyone was nice".  Stay in those places.  That's how it works in RL.  That's how it works in SL.  ()y

[Josh Susanto]

[People acted like I was almost being rude if I told them to turn on their mic ]

That should have been your 2nd sign that the sim is not populated by avatars with lesbian users.

[good music]

That should have been your first sign.

[Mayalily]

9,000, is that all?  lol   I think in 3 months, I've visited maybe 50 at the most.  And some of those I have visited and liked are already taken down, i.e., no longer exist. 

ETA:  I don't really care how much a mic costs, SL is complicated enough, and my computer needs some tweeking for this new generation viewer, as it's called.  I already have a rl love and other's may as well, so why would they want to mic anyways and add more techno babble into their lives.  I don't need any more techno babble and troubleshooting for a mic, that's for sure 'cuz I already want to kick Bill Gates!

[Mayalily]

Is that a slam against female Dj's?  Well, the men or male avatar Dj's are worse, they play way too much metal you get metaled to death (their macho stuff), and the male Dj's also play way too much Country or Rap when the sim's theme is Rock.  Women do a better job at knowing what a change up is also, imo.  There is one male Dj though who is out of this world and should be a Dj in rl; he's that good. 

Not to mention that most of the male Dj's play that trance crap.  I find overall, the female Dj's are just better, with the exception of one. 

[leyna1488303852]

So you wanted to be social, and found a club where there were lots of people, everyone was nice, and they were friendly and greeted you. Sounds like things were great until you told them to turn on their mic.  Hmm.  I don't know many people that appreciate being told what to do, particularly by someone new. Maybe you did "ask" as opposed to tell?  

Either way, there are many reasons people choose to not use voice.  There was an eleven page thread here recently about it, and by far the majority of poeple responding to the thread don't like to use voice.  Not one of the reasons given was due to the price of a mic.  For many it takes them out of the immersive experience, and there were other reasons as well.

My partner prefers to use voice,  there are reasons that typing is difficult for him at times.  I really don't like it, so we try to find a compromise.  He never "tells me" to turn on my mic.  He's considerate that way.   

I don't undertand where you got the "fake lesbian" thing, but obviously this particular club isn't a good fit for you, there are plenty of others to try.  

[Cerise Sorbet]

Make me use a microphone and you will get this.  So, no.

 

[Void Singer]

---

Pat Starship wrote:

[...] People acted like I was almost being rude if I told them to turn on their mic I hate to type. [...]

---

 probably because that is rude. first off, it's ask, not tell. secondly others are not there to serve your likes or dislikes.

and to go further, your presumption that anyone that won't turn on voice for you must be "fake" is the epitome of chauvinistic behavior...

many women at such places won't bother with voice except for close friends, because certain people like to use that to seek them out and harrass them... and seriously, if there's 67 people there, and music, voice is a detriment to listening.

but congratulations on your sense of entitlement, it's awe inspiring... or maybe that's nausea.

[squashy Beeswing]

YES, you were being rude by telling "people to turn their mic on".   You've no right to demand that others use voice if they don't want to.  Neither are they required to provide you with an explanation.  

Hate typing? Then get yourself some Mavis Beacon.  You'll build up your speed in no time.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Pat Starship wrote:

So today I ran into a girls only lesbian club/mall

Personally I find a theme like this  and to ban a user over gender of their avatar is counterproductive to a social network, face it you might as well say No black AVs,No white AV and so on.It is racial prejudice to pre judge a person  by the outside and not the content with in.

So I tp to this club as it has a lot of people and I am here to be social 

On tp in every one is nice,a lot of people and good music.Freindly staff greeted me and the DJ  was playing request.OK so maybe I am wrong?

LOL...WRONG...I hate to type ,it is a real pain in my butt and I rather use the mic,People acted like I was almost being rude if I told them to turn on their mic I hate to type.The only people on the Mic was my self and the DJ....67 people in this sim and 65 of them all had some  reason they never use a mic..I am sorry but I find all that to be a bunch of BS.A mic cost 8 dollars at wal mart....

In SL I have been to a few gay clubs,every one was nice.It was male and female open to any one that wanted to have fun.I do not get this whole fake lesbian  thing...

---

 

 

 

so you tp to a club and everything is going ok..then find out you and the DJ are the only ones being heard..

Besides the music? you and the one rolling the tunes lol

a lot go to clubs for the music..why would someone want to hear someone talk when they went there for the music?

just because you feel a little lazy aboutt typing is no reason for everyone to turn their music off..

that thought never entered as to why they might not want to get on the mic..that omg they are men and hiding as girls rather than clubbers out clubbing?

LOL

 

[Ishtara Rothschild]

Female-only clubs are usually restricted to female avatars, not necessarily RL women. It would be pretty hard, if not impossible, to screen people for their RL gender. And this has nothing to do with intolerance or prejudice (which would be gender prejudice if anything, not racial prejudice). It's simply that people with female avatars who happen to find male avatars unattractive prefer to be surrounded by other female avatars.

As for demanding or asking that people -- complete strangers -- use voice, I agree with others here that it is indeed rude. In SL, anonymity is quite important and voice is a very private detail. Imagine you'd run into your RL employer in some lesbian club, or into your aunt? It's better to stick to text chat unless you're among good friends (who could still turn out to be your boss or your aunt).

[Ishtara Rothschild]

PS: Typing is a very important skill in this day and age. It's hard to find a job where you don't have to use a keyboard. You'll quickly get better and faster with a little practice, even if you only use the good old "hunt and peck" two-finger system.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Mayalily wrote:

Is that a slam against female Dj's?  Well, the men or male avatar Dj's are worse, they play way too much metal you get metaled to death (their macho stuff), and the male Dj's also play way too much Country or Rap when the sim's theme is Rock.  Women do a better job at knowing what a change up is also, imo.  There is one male Dj though who is out of this world and should be a Dj in rl; he's that good. 

Not to mention that most of the male Dj's play that trance crap.  I find overall, the female Dj's are just better, with the exception of one. 

---

 

 

 

i think what josh was saying is that good music was playing..that should have been their first clue as to why people were not on their mics..they wanted to hear the good music and not someone too lazy to type hehehe

i didn't take it as men dj's are better than women dj's..

that good music is better than listening to someone talking over it hehehe

[Mayalily]

Yeah, that post could be taken either way.  It was a little strange of a post, not to clear.

But right, who wants to hear people jiber jabbering when they are trying to listen to music?  That would be counterproductive. 

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

The funny thing about lesbain clubs - that applies to any gender specific location...

Lets pretend for a second that it was a RL social venue. Courts have upheld gender divides while banning race divides - and they have drawn this line for specific reasons that should be obvious to anyone who's not 'looking for a fight / drama' once explained.

The easiest example of a legitimate gender divide where a race divide is not legitimate is a restroom / changing room.

I should hope that one needs no explaination. But... its a sexual tension thing which has nothing to do with invidious bias.

Likewise for social gatherings. Sexual tension between the genders, and sexual conflict as a result - are a natural part of the living condition; almost regardless even of species... (barring a few species that only have one gender).

 

Having 'safe' sspaces away from sexual tensions, or 'safe hunting' grounds - were people can go to seek partners in an 'approved' setting (ie: where the expectation is that some light hitting on / flirting will occur, and is not harrassment unless it goes beyond the boundaries of the culture's given mating rituals)... having these spaces is natural.

At the same time - this goes to the very core of why many gentlemen's clubs were forced to allow women (but not all have been so forced). They went outside the boundaries of a social venue, and became places of professional conduct. At such a point they no longer have the pale of being a 'safe place' away sexual tension, but instead become a place of bias to keep women out of professional circles.

- In a decade or so, we will likely see this law suits all over again in regards to women's gatherings. As the majority of college students, and college students entering major professions, are now women - their social clubs will start getting business circles. Things like the 'lady's entreprenuer's club' -ARE- in violation of US law when they occue, and its only a matter of time until a lawsuit occurs.

 

Its a false analogy to equate this to race... there is no such thing as an acceptable, natural, or otherwise need for a 'safe place' away from other races.

US law has long taken a very strict scrutiny towards any form of race bias or seperation, but a much more measured scrutiny towards gender divides - one that seeks to eliminate bias while recognizing different biology and certain needs driven by the biology (often resulting in some very point / detail specific case rulings that the public fails to comprehend but instead grasps on a simpler but incorrect comprehension).

So that's how it all plays out in 'RL' social venues. Note though, that a lesbian club would likely fail in an attempt to exclude straight women, as would a straight women's club fail in an attempt to exclude lesbians. And the same would hold for their men's equivalents.

 

The 'lesbian club' in Sl is just a replica of this same dynamic in the virtual world.

 

There are many possible reasons why SL has so many lesbian clubs... only one of them would be a bunch of men exploring across the gender line. If you've followed the lesbian scene over the past few decades, you might have noticed a -LOT- of their social venues in RL getting shut down even as gay men's clubs thrived. I first saw it occuring when independant book stores started going under. Too many lesbian hangouts seemed to be centered around small book stores. The failure of one led to the downfall of another. Lesbian bars and such seem to have just kind of fizzled a lot - for reasons I didn't quite see so well as I don't drink.

So you might just be seeing an actual greater chance of lesbian women gathering in SL than other groups. Certainly SL has an abundance of women users. Whereas there are 3001 different MMO virtual worlds out there, there are only a few of these 3D-MUSh games, and SL is the big one... I know its a serious stereotype... but men do seem to go for the action MMOs whereas SL is almost a replica of Barbie doll play.

(Why am I feeling an urge to go shopping inworld for a tea set?)

Other reasons could vary.

 

As for the whole voice thing...

Well especially in a club, the last thing many of us want is somebody's voice over the music. And for many people SL already has -enough- lag and doesn't need more.

Others don't want the harrassment that can ensue... either they don't like your voice and get on you for it, or they do and you start getting IM'd photos of men's genitalia...

And finally well...

 

The deal is you don't have to listen to me:

And I don't have to listen to you:

 

And if you walk into a place and demand it... well that's just flat out rude.

 

[Alazarin Mondrian]

---

Pat Starship wrote:

So today I ran into a girls only lesbian club/mall

....Freindly staff greeted me and the DJ  was playing request.OK so maybe I am wrong?

LOL...WRONG...I hate to type ,it is a real pain in my butt and I rather use the mic,People acted like I was almost being rude if I told them to turn on their mic...

---

Actually yes, you were being rude as well as thoroughly insensitive.

1] It is massively inconsiderate and selfish to insist on voice when there's a DJ or live music act performing. Believe it or not there are people who actually listen to music and they most certainly don't want that experience ruined by a cacophony of voices.

2] The reason the DJ was the only other person on voice was that she was introducing the tracks over the audio stream as opposed to the SL voice system.

3] Don't be surprised when you find music-related venues insisting on no voice and 'keep all conversations in IM'. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with coy gender tourists and everything to do safeguarding the experience of the music-listening audience.

4] Learn to type. It's part and parcel of digital literacy. Even I, with my clumsy gravedigger's paws, can manage it. So you can as well unless you happen to be a double amputee.

[Luschious Nightfire]

I have a ladies only club, and what realy gets me are people like you,

So you tp into this club, you receive a notecard with a welcome message and rules. 

a. you read the rules and ingnore them anyway

b. you know it all and feel you dont need to read the rules

Either way, I now have to deface my club by having to place a sign with PICTURES ON IT in the hopes that the message will get through to you

[Peewee Musytari]

---

Pat Starship wrote:

People acted like I was almost being rude if I told them to turn on their mic I hate to type.

---

 

Thats not "almost" rude, its just plain simple rude.

Its your problem if you hate to type not theirs.

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Mayalily wrote:

If someone just wants to go a club just for the sake of hearing music or the Dj in RL or to meet a friend, then they are not going to a gay nor straight club for a date nor to look for a relationship; they're just there to hear the music 'cuz they may already have a rl partner/significant other. 

It is kind of hard if you have a gay friend and cannot go there, but you could always teleport them to a club where u r at.

---

It's actually possible to go out just to hear a DJ and also be looking for a relationship, whether you're gay or straight or in a gay club or not... people do intermingle all the time. And believe it or not it's also very possible to meet a romantic interest of whatever sex you prefer at any club you go to... you never know who'll be there.

I've been to many different types of clubs and have never been asked to leave because of the sex of my av... if I did happen to stumble upon a lesbian place that only allowed women and was asked to leave I'd leave and consider it their loss. All of the gay male oriented clubs I've ever been to allow female avs, after all we do love our fruit flies (no offense ladies). I don't think I'd want to go to one that doesn't. I have plenty female friends that I like going out with, if I ever TPed one to a club and she was told to leave, I'd be gone as well... and I won't be going back.

@Pat: You may not want to type but you have to realize, most people go out to clubs to hear the music not listen to your witty repartee. If you showed up at a club I was at and refused to turn off your mic, you'd be muted before you could say spit. Just saying

...Dres

[Sapphire Hissop]

Hello Pat -

I will go with the majority here and tell you that yes, asking people to use a mic is rude.  I personally HATE SL voice.  I have it disabled in my system.  I go to a club to listen to the music and usually the DJ talks through their stream so I can hear them when they announce the songs or thank people or even greet them.  The rest of the time...well...I don't want to hear people coughing, playing with their mic, their kids in the background, their dog in the background, their roommate/partner/spouse/significant other in the background.  I don't want to hear them belching or making other noises into their mic.  I don't want to hear them singing or humming or whistling or anything else.  I don't want to hear their TV.  Are you getting the picture here?  If I go to a place other than a club and they only use voice, I leave and don't join their group.  I also inform an owner why I am leaving.  Some groups that I paid memberships in went voice only - I left and quit paying the memberships.  Again I informed them why. 

I work in cubicle world in real life which means I have to hear other people's conversations, both on the phone and with others.  I have to listen to everything around me unless I use my iPod.  When I come home I want to listen to my own TV or the music playing at the club or sometimes...just sometimes...gasp...nothing at all.  Sometimes I don't even turn on my speakers or my TV because I want some quiet.  So no...I will NOT get a mic nor will I enable voice because you hate to type.  Sorry but I like to type and prefer it.  Have a great SL.

Sapphire

[Mayalily]

 

Oh sure, a person could find their SL or RL love anywhere.  In RL a plane, a train, a cafe, through family or friends, at a library, or just walking down the street.  Who knows?  Love just hits us. 

However, I don't know if I'd feel all that comfortable going to a lesbian club when I'm not a lesbian because I'd feel like I was false advertising myself.  In SL this would be easy to overcome tho by just buying one of those tag things where I could write something such as "Partnered to Spaceman, just here to mingle with my sistas!" or something like that.  That would make me feel more comfortable because I wouldn't want to lead anyone on.   I also always tell male avatars that IM me that I'm just here to dance and have fun, no partnering.   So I don't lead them on either.  But I would feel a little uncomfortable having women IM me in a lesbian club.  I might feel awkward and not know what to say, so I think I'd feel more comfortable with some kind of tag that let's them know I'm just here to visit my sistas and hang with my female peers 'cuz I love women as people and friends.

In RL tho if I went to a Lesbian bar, I think I'd be false advertising myself, if I were single that is.

Businesses in SL and in RL are set up to cater to a specific something or other, such as I have a restaurant club fairly near where I live that throws a sock hop 50's rock n roll event once a month and it's packed with people from all who love that retro era.  If people don't go to the sock hop, it's not because they are prejudice against 50's music and sock hop dancing, it's just not a type of music they like. 

Businesses in RL and SL are not prejudice, but they are catering.  That's just a fact of life. 

ETA:  Defin of catering as in definition 2. 

 1.

to provide food, service, etc., as for a party or wedding: to cater for a banquet.

2.

to provide or supply what amuses, is desired, or gives pleasure, comfort, etc. (usually followed by to  or for ): to cater to popular demand; to cater to an invalid.



 

[Dresden Ceriano]

I understand your point of view but don't share it. I actually go to more straight clubs in SL than I do gay clubs and never once did I think I had to wear a sign that says, "I'm gay". Right now it's easy to tell I'm gay by looking at my profile, but this hasn't always been the case. More than once I've been IMed my females and have no problem with it at all, in fact I find it rather flattering... I mean, who wouldn't? It's easy to just say, "thank you but I prefer men"... no harm done.

Just being a girl going to a lesbian club is not false advertizing, now if you were to be wearing a sign that read, "Hello ladies, bring it on" then maybe yeah... lol.

...Dres

[Mayalily]

rofl. 

Okay, I'll try to get over my awkwardness, 'cuz I enjoy hanging around women, but I prefer men.  I enjoy looking at some of the male avatars, some are very cute dudes and almost everyone has been so courteous in IM, with the exception of one.

We were in IM and I asked him if he'd like to show me around the adult grid because I've not been there yet, and he answered back "You wanna have sex?"   :matte-motes-agape:   So I answered back "No!" 

 

ETA:  That ended that discussion, and I thought "how rude".  That was rude. 



[Courtney Sinister]

Voicing at a club where a DJ is playing music is rude, no matter what kind of club it is.

Telling people to turn on their mics is rude. Many people of both genders don't like to voice. This usually has more to do with where they fit on the "Chatroom--Immersive" type user scale than it does with anything else. For me, if someone starts voicing, I'm ripped out of the virtual world I love and shoved back into my seat in front of the computer, and all the interesting characters are suddenly pale clammy nerds in their parent's basements.

If lesbians want to have a place where they know they can let their hair down without the unrelenting objectification by men that they face all their lives, good for them. Go somewhere else and have fun.