Ineffective Altruism

[Prokofy Neva]

I call experiments in "reclamation of abandoned land" to be "ineffective altruism," like SBF's now criminally-sentenced "effective altruism".

Do you still believe in them? I don't! 

I see lots of failures around me, compounding the failures that led to the abandoned land in the first place.

It would be particularly instructive to tell you the history of another nearby "Blake Seaview" sim in the last year or more. But as that would get the thread banned, I'll just tell a few tales on myself as I always apply my philosophy to myself first.

So I got this ENTIRE SIM on the auction for A SONG -- $32,000. It was actually a Linden who persuaded me that it would be cheaper and no-risk to buy on the auction and not request it inworld (which was also not allowed as my account was in arrears). Maybe he had to show progress on auction sales but I bit on this chum because I LOVE LOVE LOVE pink mountain sims. I guess few others do as there is enough abandoned pink-mountain sim to make a continent!

So in the lovely sim of La Montana Rosa, as I call it, I set about making a community of:

o low-cost skyboxes

o mid-cost skyboxes

o mid-cost mountain homes + sky platforms

o budget sky platforms for store or home

o land preserve venues in the ground and sky

The goal here was NOT to make money but break even -- something it never really did, except for short periods. That's why it goes in the "altruism" basket unless by "altruism" you mean "I spend thousands of US dollars playing Lady Bountiful and don't make back even half the tier" -- because I do see a fair number of THOSE experiments around, and PS I'm guilty of them TOO.

So first, it took A SOLID YEAR to make back that $32,000L. Yes, mountains and pink mountains in particular with no water in sight are a tough sell.

People hate living on mountains, even if you create little flat terrain wedges for them to put their houses on or give them a a house for free. Maybe they just feel exposed? Even with "avatars can see me" turned OFF.

So it wasn't a problem to fill up the sky at 0.70/prim (now 0.71/prim) or the 25/50 prim skyboxes. But the mountains were and are just a tough sell.

I tried different things. I allow tier to be donated to the group in lieu of rent. I offer deals of various kinds.

I also had to move in some people at like 0.60/prim because I had to rescue from the failed "Blake Seaview" experiment

Along the way, I had to remove griefers and over-primmers and squatters, and also put up some Inca-type walls because there was a guy with a god-awful ugly build in the view. The rest of the view was EMPTY on all sides because -- see above.

I huffed and puffed on this for almost another year, and then finally I abandoned 3-4 lots on the mountainside that just never rented. They may stay empty -- such land does, for years. Or they may fill up with something awful, in which case, hello Inca wall. 

You?

Edited November 7, 2023 by Prokofy Neva

[Prokofy Neva]

Let me give you ANOTHER "ineffective alturism" abandoned land reclamation experiment.

This one ran for more than a decade. It wasn't until I TP'd in a friend to review it with me that I realized just how awful it was.

I guess it was when she started chuckling at the flexi-prim dresses for sale...marvelling at the all-prim construction not even convexed where it could be...and then guffawed outright when she saw the free bits, circa 2007.

This was a "Flea Market" where I let people put out stuff for free. I got the land abandoned, and thought I'd let the prims on it go to support a mall which actually did cover tier, and let newbies have a chance to sell things without the huge rents that mall merchants demand. So I had a limit of like 30 prims and 90 days -- then a year -- then I dropped even that, especially with COVID returnees.

I encouraged people to put out gatchas, but oddly enough, they sold better in the other area where I charged rent. There's something about free places with free things that has free placement of things to sell that just doesn't draw quality.

I had to constantly remove copyright theft and "business in a box".

Interestingly, it got a fair number of tips, but never from the people who actually sold things there.

Perhaps five years ago, I cleaned out people who hadn't logged in for years. I tried to advertise it more. This land was like 3072 and cost me $9 or $10 US per month. It never broke even or came close to covering costs. The tips while they seemed brisk only made up perhaps $1-2 of the tier.

I never examined it as I should have, and just let it go. When I abandoned 10k on that sim when a long-term renter left (after it didn't rent or sell), the "Flea Market" parcel didn't even serve the purpose of providing prims any more. The prims were simply not used. I abandoned some corners of it and persisted when I should have nuked the thing.

After I TP'd that friend out of there and served her tea as she kept laughing at the flexiprims (I *like* flexiprim skirts in fact)...

...I came back the next day and took a weather eye to this altruistic scene which SERVED NO ONE. I could advertise it and never get new people. That's because newbies don't need places to sell things -- they don't make things. If they have a breedable or a gatcha, they either find a place with traffic and pay the rent willingly, or find one of the many people with little communities or homes they are happy to half-rent out. 

I looked at the prim placement and last log-in date of my "tenants" and removed those who were gone from the People List or who had not logged in for 2 years. 

That didn't leave many!

Perhaps I had 20 people to contact then. I wrote to them all -- only one, a neighbour on another sim, answered -- the rest never bothered.

I put the entire lot to rent. But who needs even cheap snow roadside?

I then put it TO SALE for $3/m. Nothing doing.

It was then that I entered the great and glorious Cycle of Life that is abandoned land. Today, I see somebody picked it up and put an end user's house on it, not bad. Always nice to have nice neighbours.

And you?

Edited November 7, 2023 by Prokofy Neva

[diamond Marchant]

55 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

And you?

Due to having a bit of tier headroom, I combined three abandoned parcel purchases in Osiliers (Satori) into a property that spans route 8C and provides a roadhouse and cemetery. The roadhouse provides a party venue for sailing cruises that might end in nearby Chiffre. The cemetery was a Haunted Destination during Halloween and is now being converted into a GTFO hub (perhaps someday we will have corpses as a cargo item, one can hope). The point was to do something useful with abandoned mainland that others may enjoy. One common theme among all my properties is that they are reachable by vehicles (mostly boats).

[Prokofy Neva]

1 minute ago, diamond Marchant said:

Due to having a bit of tier headroom, I combined three abandoned parcel purchases in Osiliers (Satori) into a property that spans route 8C and provides a roadhouse and cemetery. The roadhouse provides a party venue for sailing cruises that might end in nearby Chiffre. The cemetery was a Haunted Destination during Halloween and is now being converted into a GTFO hub (perhaps someday we will have corpses as a cargo item, one can hope). The point was to do something useful with abandoned mainland that others may enjoy. One common theme among all my properties is that they are reachable by vehicles (mostly boats).

That's very nice. The tree really makes it. GTFO-as-morgue seems appropriate to me. I will check back in a year! So far, this isn't an example of ineffective altruism unless you're saying no one visits.

[Polenth Yue]

It's pretty common for people to end up expanding projects beyond what they can really maintain and then have to drop them back down again. In a small example, I used to have more mainland, but finances changed and I ended up dropping down to my basic included tier. I have a little more again now, but not enough for the parks and gardens I used to have (which were used by people, so it wasn't failed in that sense, but it was more than I could afford in the long term).

I've seen it with private estates too. When it's all shiny and new, they get a lot of interest and add more regions. But ultimately, most people don't stay, and the person running it can't afford to pay for that much land. So regions get dropped until it reaches a sustainable size. Mainland at least has the advantage that you can reduce the size is a more granular way.

The general point being it's better to expand slowly and be ready to downsize again if it's not working. Trying to cling on tends to mean things downsize anyway, but with less control and a lot more stress. In your examples, it sounds like you abandoned at a sensible time, even if it could have been earlier. In the other recent example discussed on the forum, it's pretty clear that people tried to hold off on downsizing for too long, which did not end well.

As far as doing stuff for people goes, I might not have any permanent parks and gardens these days, but I do temporary builds at events and my Linden Home is open. I also make things for charity events. Those things are a lot easier to balance, as if I'm not able to do something, I can just not sign up.

[Aethelwine]

I bought land in Bresino and then later in Marachia, to open up a water route across Nautilus. Since then there has been a few times the route has been blocked but it has largely been open since then and landowners along the route increasingly making the most of the waterway creating a collective self interest to keep the route open to be enjoyed by all.

Both my purchases were above market rate for what they were, but worth it for the over all objective.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

11 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I call experiments in "reclamation of abandoned land" to be "ineffective altruism,"

Do you still believe in them? I don't! 

I've NEVVER believed in them.

Seen way too many threads right here in the Forums, that reek of this nonsense.

Remember a few years back, somebody announced their "community's sad plight"?

They had spent almost a decade accumulating about 9 regions worth of parcels into some unmanageable sprawl, an "upscale residential community", where people paid 1/4 region rental prices for 4096 housing plots, to cover all the "community infrastructure", the fake roads, the "easements", and landscaping.

Place only brought in enough cash to cover HALF the tier, the other half coming from the "Queen of the River" who had designed the place to fail. then they ran out of money, and :

 

"Hey plebs! I, the Queen of the River, want YOU to donate money to keep my failure afloat for the rich folks who won't pay the real costs"

 

That failed, so then it was "donate and you can have a seat on a powerless advisory board", which also failed, so they sold it to some other outfit who tried to restructure the mess into something that MIIGHT break even. That failed too.

 

Hell, take a look at the RP Forum, endless series of adverts for :

 

"Welcome to Tedium Falls, a family friendly PG rural suburbia RP community, we have 8 2048 houses for rent at 8192 prices, and TONS of IMMERSIVE infrastructure!, we also have unpaid job vacancies for people willing to work 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, 53 weeks a year as :

1 x Police Chief, 4 x Police Deputies, 1 x Police Dispatcher, 2 x Court Guards, 1 x Court Judge, 1 x Court Stenographer, 1 x Jail Warden, 6 x Jail Guards,  4 x Paramedics, 2 x Doctors, 4 x Nurses, 1 x Health Clinic Administrator [ snipped because there's another 35 vacancies for shop keepers, checkout chicks, dog catchers, jail inmates, and hobos ]

All applicants must provide their own vehicles and uniforms to our exacting standards!

Tedium Falls, a nicer place to Para RP

Apply via Gurgle-forms to Clueless.ParaFool with your ParaRP CV"

 

And then about 2 years later a single reply "hi is this place still open, i cant find it in search and want to apply for Police chief"

 

Almost every attempt to "build a fake community from scratch  according to bizarre rules from a failed social planner wannabe" will fail really badly.

 

[Aethelwine]

I suspect you are right that most community projects fail. But where they work they can be glorious creating something more than a sum of its parts. 

I am personally involved with at least 2 such projects that administer a region or more of land that have lasted over 10 years.

[BJoyful]

I can't understand such persistent negativity about Second Life, @Prokofy Neva and at times, @Zalificent Corvinus.  You have been here for such a long time... and still not able to feel successful or happy?  Perhaps you need to update your attitude or your approach to having a business inworld?

Prokofy, we had a conversation about our RL a couple of years ago and discovered how much we have in common.  We went to the same University, you in arts and me in sciences at pretty near the same time.  I think we both had scholarships, but I can't remember for sure.  Mine was a full scholarship as my father worked as a seasonal rough carpenter and a janitor in the winter and my mother never worked at a paying job after her teenage years when she worked as kitchen and farm help for a farming family.  The lady of that house was a rural schoolteacher 8 grades in one room, so my parents had no plans for me to get any post secondary education.  Our family was never very well off, but we did have a summer cottage which my dad built on the middle of 3 lots he purchased from a retired farmer for $50 each.  I was only 7 when he did this, but I helped to build 3 cottages, one to rent or sell, one for my oldest sister, her husband and son and finally the one for us.  I didn't do much but I learned a lot about planning.  Income from the first cottage paid for construction of the other two and when he sold the rental cottage he saved the proceeds to build a new house for the family.

He taught me not to borrow money, not to live beyond our means, to never spend all our savings (never more than half was his rule) and also to always contribute to savings from every pay cheque, no matter how small.

He purchased empty building lots when I was in my teens and resold them for a small profit.  The most important thing I learned was how the security of those savings meant my dad never had to work at any job he didn't enjoy and when he retired at age 63 he and my mum went on all inclusive group holidays with friends and relatives about 8 months of every year and enjoyed summers at home.  They lived to age 93 and 91 after a happy and content life.  There was always enough money to be charitable and we all helped with a pre-habitat-for-humanity project for a family whose house burned without insurance.

Altruism comes with its own built-in reward and I was also taught that in its best form, it was anonymous.  I've done my best to follow those simple rules, invested a small monthly amount in indexed funds and as much as possible in an ordinary savings account and had the luxury of never needing to apply for a job and never doing a job I didn't love.  I retired at 46 due to illness and I'll never be able to spend the money I have.  I've not lived a life of extravagance and only bought one new car (95 Mustang GT because I always wanted one.

I understand not everyone lives as I do or made the choices I did but most people in RL and SL whom I choose to spend time with feel the same way I do and contribute their time, talent or other gifts freely, for the enjoyment of it and for the enjoyment of others.  Everything evolves and flows with changes... or it gets left behind, sometimes stuck in a rut.

Within months of joining Second Life I met my SL/RL partner and he showed me the first of many things... how to make Gestures.  At first I did so just for fun and for the Club where we both worked and not too long after (maybe a year or two later) I started selling some on MP and still enjoy getting some 'free' L$ from time to time.  My partner and I collaborate making products for MP and my Partner earns some RL 'pocket money' from the proceeds of his MP Store and it also pays for his Premium Membership.  We both donate products for good causes in SL from time to time.  

I struggle to understand how anyone can complain about anything in Second Life.  We aren't required to be here against our will!  This virtual world is limited only by those we inflict on ourselves and it baffles me why those who complain about anything and everything on a whim and at times... force unsolicited opinions and advice which I feel is discouraging and detrimental to the enjoyment of others, especially the new Residents who arrive here facing tremendous opportunity.  How confusing it must be to ask a question in Forum and be discouraged and warned of imaginary impending doom and disaster, tyranny and gluttony.  Thank goodness for the altruists who offer useful advice and direction (I think we all know who they are... Reputations are golden!) encouraging creativity and enjoyment of Second Life.  Goodness and kindness will always prevail and perhaps if you attempted to share more of those, you wouldn't feel so 'poor' in real life.  After all you do manage to afford a Premium Membership and I see you shopping often ♥

So... why? (Sing it Annie Lennox ♥♪)  How high can you soar or...

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by BJoyful
gr, sp

[Prokofy Neva]

6 hours ago, BJoyful said:

I can't understand such persistent negativity about Second Life, @Prokofy Neva and at times, @Zalificent Corvinus.  You have been here for such a long time... and still not able to feel successful or happy?  Perhaps you need to update your attitude or your approach to having a business inworld?

 

I'm giving a truthful and accurate report on a real situation in a virtual world. I suggest you do the same without trying to psych out people's real lives or prevent them from expressing the truth of the situation. I don't have to justify what I do in RL or SL.

I struggle to comprehend how people who virulently protest against everything in RL, from local to international politics, can then lapse into pure Pollyana-ism when they get into SL. Why can't we criticize SL?! Of course we can. It's a world both run in authoritarian fashion by a company, like all platforms, and made by fallible human beings at the secondary level. OF COURSE we can criticize it, and that's how you make things better. Many people have deep, deep illusions about how they are "helping the commuuuuniity" and selflessly providing for others. I know, I'm one of them. I pay less tier now that I've shorn myself of some of these "altruistic" disasters, and that frees me up to be of more genuine use.

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Prokofy Neva

[Zalificent Corvinus]

5 hours ago, BJoyful said:

I can't understand such persistent negativity about Second Life,

And as usual, you mis-understand. t's not negativity about SeconfLife, t's negativity about arrogant people who THINK that only THEY know what's best for everybody else.

The arrogant, ignorant permanoob fossil, who unilaterally decided that part of a Mainland continent NEEDED an ugly, unfinished, broken, rail-fail, desecrating 7 regions, because Vehicle Fanatic Induced Planning Blight Rules OK.

The arrogant, ignorant people who assume that EVERYONE wants to live next to a sodding Airport, or the ugly concrete carpark and corrugated metal warehouses of those sodding STFU Hubs

The arrogant, ignorant people who are so in love with the tedious, mind numbing suburban hell that is Bell, that they insist on trying to convert Mainland into a loss making 5th rate clone of said hell.

 

The arrogant, ignorant people who blather on about how they are going to improve things for the "community" while making it abundantly clear that this hypothetical "community" does not include ANY of the people ACTUALLY living in the area to be improved.

 

5 hours ago, BJoyful said:

I struggle to understand how anyone can complain about anything in Second Life.  We aren't required to be here against our will!  This virtual world is limited only by those we inflict on ourselves and it baffles me why those who complain about anything and everything on a whim and at times... force unsolicited opinions and advice which I feel is discouraging and detrimental to the enjoyment of others, especially the new Residents who arrive here facing tremendous opportunity.

I'm jot complaining about SecondLife I'm complaining about people who keep trying to tell ME how I'm SUPPOSED to enjoy it, who keep telling ME I'm enjoying it all WRONG.

 

"But of course you want a STFU Hub, and an Airport, and a Rail-fail, and a community centre, and an Indoctrination Park, and a Bellicosian Consulate filled with under cover Anti-Mainland Operatives, and an enfored belli style anti-Mainlander covenant, and the new road will increase the value of your land-investment when you sell up!"

I didn't buy the land as a sodding "investment" I bought it to have some place to call home, and the only reason I'd sell up is because the sodding loud-mouthed "Altruists" who'd decided to "improve" MY SecondLife by systematically destroying everything II enjoyed about it.

 

5 hours ago, BJoyful said:

Thank goodness for the altruists who offer useful advice and direction UNWANTED INTERFERANCE IN OTHER PEOPLES SECONDLIVES ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT THEY ARE BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE (I think we all know who they are... Reputations are golden!)

Fixed that for you.

5 hours ago, BJoyful said:

Goodness and kindness will always prevail and perhaps if you attempted to share more of those, you wouldn't feel so 'poor' in real life

And you end with a "Gratuitous Personal Attack", that patronising, condescending attitude to the "mere plebs" who stand in the way of your grandiose schemes to remake everyone's SecondLives into what YOU think they should be.

[Prokofy Neva]

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

The arrogant, ignorant permanoob fossil, who unilaterally decided that part of a Mainland continent NEEDED an ugly, unfinished, broken, rail-fail, desecrating 7 regions, because Vehicle Fanatic Induced Planning Blight Rules OK.

The arrogant, ignorant people who assume that EVERYONE wants to live next to a sodding Airport, or the ugly concrete carpark and corrugated metal warehouses of those sodding STFU Hubs

 

What sims are those? The rail fanatics have caused more trouble! When I abandoned land that a tiny claque of furries kept demanding I turn over to them instead of "getting in the Lindens' way" to put through a RR in Juanita -- for example. That abandoned land sat there for months on end. Gosh, no Lindens who tidied it up or came through there later seized it to use for their SLRR. You know? And then the Lindens sold it to land cutters who flipped it to ad farmers. Mission accomplished, eh?

I wonder why those transportation games require such MILES of empty concrete parking lots when they don't get THAT much use, and there are no employees in these factories to require the parking spaces. And you know? We can fly.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said:

What sims are those? The rail fanatics have caused more trouble!

Seven regions at the southern end of Satori.

Start just to the north of the Maritime Para-Military Wannabe Port with it's massive eyesore wall, and anti gravity mini airport, follow the track north past a half region of fail terror-forming and a half region sized double-decker prim airfield, with two AFK traffic gaming alts perma parked on it. It's easy to follow except for a couple of regions later, when there's aa half region gap because they couldn't figure out how to lay track across a hillside that's 70%+ abandoned.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Second Life is chock full of people that know how the place should operate and demand everyone follow their rules. Prokofy damns me to hell because I dare have a few 16sqm adboards, or flip micro parcels. Second Life is a big place, but its never enough for him. We all must bow down to his wisdom and vision.

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
to too two

[Persephone Emerald]

/me enjoying a cup of tea because it's too early for popcorn.

[Love Zhaoying]

56 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

/me enjoying a cup of tea because it's too early for popcorn.

Tea is more altruistic!

[Teresa Firelight]

I dont agree with all of ProKofy's views -- heck I dont agree with a lot of them.... But I have to say this for him... he is VERY good at his land management and makes his properties a pleasant place.

I purchased a parcel adjoining his property along a sea. The area was clean and looked nice -- and did not have all that awful low-hanging clutter and eyesores. He was good neighbor to live next to. He maintains open waterways for anyone to use at his own expense. I got to know some of my neighbors and they were all tenants of his-- and they all loved prokofy as a landlord. They told me that he is very fair and takes great care of his tenants.

I think prokofy's property management adds value second life.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Teresa Firelight
Orig post used female pronouns for prokofy and I learned that prokofy is male... so corrected the pronouns.

[Love Zhaoying]

28 minutes ago, Teresa Firelight said:

I dont agree with all of ProKofy's views -- heck I dont agree with a lot of them.... But I have to say this for her... she is VERY good at her land management and makes her properties a pleasant place.

I purchased a parcel adjoining her property along a sea. The area was clean and looked nice -- and did not have all that awful low-hanging clutter and eyesores. She was good neighbor to live next to. She maintains open waterways for anyone to use at her own expense. I got to know some of my neighbors and they were all tenants of hers -- and they all loved prokofy as a landlord. They told me that she is very fair and takes great care of her tenants.

I think prokofy's property management adds value second life.

Whether anyone agrees or disagrees with Prokofy's views, the fact they engage in these altruistic acts says a lot!

[BJoyful]

On 11/8/2023 at 12:24 AM, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I've NEVVER believed in them.

Seen way too many threads right here in the Forums, that reek of this nonsense.

Remember a few years back, somebody announced their "community's sad plight"?

They had spent almost a decade accumulating about 9 regions worth of parcels into some unmanageable sprawl, an "upscale residential community", where people paid 1/4 region rental prices for 4096 housing plots, to cover all the "community infrastructure", the fake roads, the "easements", and landscaping.

Place only brought in enough cash to cover HALF the tier, the other half coming from the "Queen of the River" who had designed the place to fail. then they ran out of money, and :

 

"Hey plebs! I, the Queen of the River, want YOU to donate money to keep my failure afloat for the rich folks who won't pay the real costs"

 

That failed, so then it was "donate and you can have a seat on a powerless advisory board", which also failed, so they sold it to some other outfit who tried to restructure the mess into something that MIIGHT break even. That failed too.

 

Hell, take a look at the RP Forum, endless series of adverts for :

 

"Welcome to Tedium Falls, a family friendly PG rural suburbia RP community, we have 8 2048 houses for rent at 8192 prices, and TONS of IMMERSIVE infrastructure!, we also have unpaid job vacancies for people willing to work 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, 53 weeks a year as :

1 x Police Chief, 4 x Police Deputies, 1 x Police Dispatcher, 2 x Court Guards, 1 x Court Judge, 1 x Court Stenographer, 1 x Jail Warden, 6 x Jail Guards,  4 x Paramedics, 2 x Doctors, 4 x Nurses, 1 x Health Clinic Administrator [ snipped because there's another 35 vacancies for shop keepers, checkout chicks, dog catchers, jail inmates, and hobos ]

All applicants must provide their own vehicles and uniforms to our exacting standards!

Tedium Falls, a nicer place to Para RP

Apply via Gurgle-forms to Clueless.ParaFool with your ParaRP CV"

 

And then about 2 years later a single reply "hi is this place still open, i cant find it in search and want to apply for Police chief"

 

Almost every attempt to "build a fake community from scratch  according to bizarre rules from a failed social planner wannabe" will fail really badly.

 

I'm still confused (unsurprisingly!).  You don't want a Covenant as Bellisseria has, but you also don't like most of what "no Covenant" allows/encourages. 

Could you possibly show a photograph of what would/could conform or meet your standard of acceptable Mainland?  The manner in which you denigrate, disparage and verbally bully so many of the builders and creators who are living on/building on/using Mainland within the bounds of the ToS leads me to believe we should all be searching for the "Holy Grail" of Second Life builds approved by @Zalificent Corvinus so that we may worship and learn under your divine guidance. 

It seems to me that perhaps you would be more suited to Estate life... but then there's not going to be too much around you to belittle and feel superior to... so maybe you need to take a little break from "insert appropriate noun" here and get some happiness counselling so your Second Life experience won't include interfering with the enjoyment of other people in Second Life who may drive by, live near, read a Forum post full of your opinionated vituperation?

[Love Zhaoying]

I've been thinking about how to address "altruism" when it comes to Second Life "land projects".

There is "true altruism", and then there is something I'll call "the pretense of altruism".

I think by the nature of "true altruism" - it ultimately doesn't (or hopefully shouldn't) matter to the "benefactor" if a project is successful or not.  Of course, they want whatever project they "donated" land for to succeed. But by at least one definition of "altruism", "the belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others" - the "benefactor" should hopefully be "disinterested and selfless" regarding the outcome and result.

If a project was started under the "pretense of altruism" - then, the "benefactor" may have some other agenda.  For example, give "free use" of parcels so the land used, which may attract others to help with the "benefactor's" REAL project; whether that project is building a RolePlay community, hoping to cover tier cost through renting other parcels, etc.

I'm NOT accusing Prokofy of only a "pretense of altruism", I'm only pointing out that the distinction may be lost on some people.

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

I'm still confused (unsurprisingly!).

Of course you are, you seem incapable of comprehending the principle of "Let Well Alone"

3 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

You don't want a Covenant as Bellisseria has

The Belli Anti-Privacy Covenant is an abomination.

 

4 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

you also don't like most of what "no Covenant" allows/encourages. 

Unlike the "altruistic forced communityism pushers" however, II don't call for regulations to stop people building crap I dislike, I just exercise my right to dislike it, and to SAY that I dislike it.

 

9 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

It seems to me that perhaps you would be more suited to

And there you go again with that "I'm a better person and II claim the right to tell you how to live your SecondLife" nonsense again, the EXACT reason why most "altruistic" schemes fail so badly, and the exact reason II don't support them.

 

11 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

include interfering with the enjoyment of other people in Second Life who may drive by, live near

Nobody drives by my parcel, because it was chosen DELIBERATELY to be as far away from roads, raiilways, and sealanes as possible, and yet II keep being told my desire for peace and quiet in my SL home is some kind of Crime Against SL, by Overentitled Communityism Spammers. Why is that?

 

11 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

so maybe you need to take a little break from "insert appropriate noun" here and get some happiness counselling

Thank you for a gratuitous personal attack.

[BJoyful]

1 hour ago, Teresa Firelight said:

I dont agree with all of ProKofy's views -- heck I dont agree with a lot of them.... But I have to say this for her... she is VERY good at her land management and makes her properties a pleasant place.

I purchased a parcel adjoining her property along a sea. The area was clean and looked nice -- and did not have all that awful low-hanging clutter and eyesores. She was good neighbor to live next to. She maintains open waterways for anyone to use at her own expense. I got to know some of my neighbors and they were all tenants of hers -- and they all loved prokofy as a landlord. They told me that she is very fair and takes great care of her tenants.

I think prokofy's property management adds value second life.

I also like Prokofy's builds and style!  Her arts background was a good investment!  I admire that she actually lives in many of the homes she prepares for use as rentals... that shows her of love and dedication to her tenants.  I admire and respect her dedication to being among or considered the oldest rental establishment in Second Life. ♥  

It is her public views, opinions and baseless defamation of others which need updating and rethinking.  I suggest again, perhaps a little break from "insert appropriate noun" here and some happiness counselling so her Second Life experience won't include interfering with the enjoyment of other people in Second Life who may read a Forum post full of her opinionated vituperation?  Maybe a quiet word with someone (IM or face to face meeting inworld) would help to inform Prokofy of some new and updated ideas, or at least an exchange of information between parties involved would better serve Second Life and Mainland before publicly spewing half-truths, verbal bullying, libelous defamation of others.  Such isn't a good way to share information and expect a favourable result, in my opinion.

What sort of example is she providing new Residents and people in Forum (new and existing) about how to effect change, make suggestions or ask questions about Second Life.  I fully believe in the freedom of speech, but not fact-poor ranting about imaginary pending disaster and doom based on an irrelevant past experience.  Memory isn't as trustworthy as we are led to believe.

[BJoyful]

6 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Of course you are, you seem incapable of comprehending the principle of "Let Well Alone"

The Belli Anti-Privacy Covenant is an abomination.

 

Unlike the "altruistic forced communityism pushers" however, II don't call for regulations to stop people building crap I dislike, I just exercise my right to dislike it, and to SAY that I dislike it.

 

And there you go again with that "I'm a better person and II claim the right to tell you how to live your SecondLife" nonsense again, the EXACT reason why most "altruistic" schemes fail so badly, and the exact reason II don't support them.

 

Nobody drives by my parcel, because it was chosen DELIBERATELY to be as far away from roads, raiilways, and sealanes as possible, and yet II keep being told my desire for peace and quiet in my SL home is some kind of Crime Against SL, by Overentitled Communityism Spammers. Why is that?

 

Thank you for a gratuitous personal attack.

So... that's a no then... you won't share what you believe is the standard "well" everyone should "let alone" ?  I believe in "live and let live" and the Golden Rule.  I didn't intend my suggestion as a personal attack, simply as a suggestion.  Stress and anger can lead to serious health issues, or even death. <--- THIS IS NOT a threat, just a public health warning ♥ Lets be good/kind to each other, and look for compromises not name and shame.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

and look for compromises not name and shame.

Belii for Bellicosians, Mainland for Mainlanders, and a BRAND NEW continent, "GuaranteedToFailLand" for the holier-than-thou altruists to experiment with their ill informed and/or ill intentioned social engineering projects.

 

7 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

I didn't intend my suggestion as a personal attack, simply as a suggestion.  Stress and anger can lead to serious health issues, or even death. <--- THIS IS NOT a threat, just a public health warning ♥

And another patronising condescending gratuitous personal attack. Do feel free to take your "suggestions" elsewhere.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

22 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

What sort of example is she providing new Residents and people in Forum (new and existing) about how to effect change, make suggestions

You appear to be confused. SecondLife residents are under NO obligation to act as :

Unpaid company shills

Unpaid Mentors

Unpaid Chat Partners

Unpaid examples of Holier-than-thou Altruistic Communityism spammers preferred social agenda

 

Or to volunteer to fill supporting roles in your desire to tell everyone else on the Grid how they should live, including your patronising and condescending insults crudely disguised as Heath Fascist lectures.

You remind me of the campaigner who wanted a local takeaway closed down because they objected to it selling manual workers hearty high calorie meals at cheap prices.

"Oh it can't be healthy for outdoor manual workers who need 3000 calories a day to eat a 1500 calorie main meal, especially one that costs less than a 1/2 hour's wages, we must close this place to help PROTECT those POOR workers from affordable food"