Mainstream failure of SL & Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, InnerCity Elf said:

It's even very high-level in a meta way, SL doesn't even need to provide the zombies, they provide themselves.

This is an amazing "meta-truth" (no pun or "meta" reference intended) about Second Life!

Throw out all the "bots" - and Second Life STILL has what anyone can consider NPC's that one can choose to interact with or ignore:

- Avatars begging for money ("I only need L$137 to buy the thing I want")

- Avatars "soliciting" otherwise ("Hey babeee, come watch me dance..")

- Avatars standing around in clubs (Quote: "...." <= silence)

- Avatars gesturing as if their brains have melted ("Whooo!")

- Avatars hired to basically "pose" in shops (Will they reply if you try to talk to them? Are they AFK? Who knows?!?)

- Avatars with "Tummy Talkers" (Best to ignore..)

etc.

So from that point of view:  Second Life has "many and varied" types of and numbers of individual NPC's - in excess of any other game, another indication it is a game indeed.

Now, applying this to the topic:

- New Second Life players may see all these "NPC's" as an exciting aspect of Second Life.  Something to do! Lookit all the "people"! Ooh, that one is pretty!

- Experienced Second Life players come to realize that all these "NPC's" actually prevent you from achieving the bottom tiers on Maslow's Hierarchy. The Second Life "NPC" Avatars (actual avatars that you can consider as NPC's according to my logic above) prevent you from reaching your goal of "safety and security" in Second Life by essentially robbing you of your time, attention, and L$.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

I'm a Clinical Psychologist.  I only come here to get away from work.

It must be hard, when you come into Second Life and the Forum, seeing all the various "pathologies"..

Thank you for all that you do!

 

[Rowan Amore]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Directed user help.
"Choose an option for your Second Life today:

- Explore

- Customize your Avatar (using free or Shopping)

- Shop

- Find a social group / scene / conversation / dating 

- Build / Create

- Earn L$

- Search for a Linden Home / Mainland Home / Rental Home"

None of these would require "changing Second Life", just simple task-oriented user-directed goals and activities. Simple. A TPV could do it all. Even a HUD could do a lot of it.

LL could just buy the BeYou system and integrate that into their viewer.  Problem solved.  There seem to be a.lot of people that enjoy those things.  I'm definitely not one of them although I've tried a couple.  To me, it's like a job.  Something I've successfully avoided in SL.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

LL could just buy the BeYou system and integrate that into their viewer.  Problem solved.  There seem to be a.lot of people that enjoy those things.  I'm definitely not one of them although I've tried a couple.  To me, it's like a job.  Something I've successfully avoided in SL.

Is BeYou on the MP? (The name is only vaguely familiar.)

I was thinking, one could create / script such a system a lot easier these days, even without an external website.

- Use Linkset Data or Experience to store details of user goals, actions, and status.

- Track when the user changes Regions, etc.

- Could add options to "force" the user to go do certain things ("Sorry, you must eat / build something / find a home / interact with someone or you are done.")

Gamified.

..and ugh, now it sounds like the whole "My Story" thing.  * shudders *

And Then Again:  Tell users if they want "a game" they can go "Fishing" or to a Social Casino.

I mean, seriously - Whaddayawant? A Pony!?

 

[Caeruleiae]

24 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

LL could just buy the BeYou system and integrate that into their viewer.  Problem solved.  There seem to be a.lot of people that enjoy those things.  I'm definitely not one of them although I've tried a couple.  To me, it's like a job.  Something I've successfully avoided in SL

BeYou would be the last system I would recommend ll take on-though some sort of system similar would indeed contribute to solving most of the issues people have presented here in this thread and others about what to do in sl and how to give more people that something to do.

If ll ever did choose to add something like this-I wouldn't recommend any of the existing systems be used as a base-for all kinds of reasons no one wants to read. But ll could pretty easily have their own similar system that people can use. They don't have to use it but they can choose to if they want to. Even better if ll decided to make it some type of free hud system that exists in the library-with various places inworld that work along with the system. The ground work for those kinds of things has already been put into place by creators-so we know it's possible. Making sure residents don't have to pay for it and have to choose to use it will help to remove possible retention issues surrounding it

But it's likely just another project ll will say soon to and never finish.  I don't think ll need more on their plate they don't intend to finish anytime soon. 

[Caeruleiae]

26 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

and ugh, now it sounds like the whole "My Story" thing.  * shudders *

There are a few systems that all basically function the same way with needs and things to do etc.-beyou is the biggest and most disappointing money sink of them all though. 

[Hymn Celestia]

11 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The need to meet psychological and survival requirements is so baked into all of us, that when presented with its absence, most people .. move on.

I love this debate!

I agree with you that the need to meet psychological and survival requirements is baked into all of us.  But the second part of your statement falls apart because, at least in my case, the whole reason for my staying is that I don't have to worry about it here.  I can pretend, through my avatar, that I don't have messy needs. 

If I had to wear a meter that ran out of life if I didn't meet the food requirements or the toilet requirements or the sleep requirements or the love requirements, or any of the pyramid requirements, I would give up and expire.  I have enough of that in my RL.  I want my SL to feel real-but-better in that sense, where my lovely avatar will do just fine indeed if I leave her sitting on a rock staring at water overnight with no threats of anything other than the internet resetting. 

And I know that such meters actually exist in SL and that some people just LOVE them and need them in order to feel like the time they spend here is worth spending.  And so your statement likely holds true for them. 

In my case, though, "when presented with its absence" is a feature not a bug

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Surprisingly, I've never tried BeYou or My Story. Both have full websites and detailed Wikis, so I doubt it'd be too difficult to jump into, but I never quite saw the appeal of playing that type of game inside SL over a complete game fully dedicated to it. There are features and elements of the genre I adore that would feel quite a bit limited here (I'll spare you the entire list, but themes, graphics/art style, cozy music and sound effects, unlimited space to build/decorate for free, no real money required beyond the initial game purchase, exploration, a large modding community, seasons and weather, collections, and fun quests/storylines are among them).

Still, the games seem popular enough. I just prefer going elsewhere for my farming/crafting fix.

[Sid Nagy]

For each and everyone there is one goal only in the end:

Your world, your imagination.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Rowan Amore]

46 minutes ago, Caeruleiae said:

But it's likely just another project ll will say soon to and never finish.  I don't think ll need more on their plate they don't intend to finish anytime soon.

This is the only reason I suggested buying an existing system as they did with Caspervend.  The work has already been done and they'd just need to implement the integration into the view.  I only used BeYou because it's one I've heard of for ages.

[Sid Nagy]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

 The work has already been done and they'd just need to implement

Just....
It is not exactly like putting a quarter in a candy machine. I think that it is way more complicated than ... just.

[Orwar]

   There are a lot of fun HUD games in SL that can be used by anyone who wants to. BeYou, My Story, Bloodlines, SML, various zombie survival stuff, pregnancy whatnots, etc. - and one great thing they all share is that if you don't want to use them, you don't have to.

   I've tried a fair few different ones, and Bloodlines in particular is a great way to force yourself to interact with people. Some of my closest friends in SL are people who were once just a green dot on the radar to be persuaded to let me have a nibble on their jugular. But I totally get that it mightn't be appealing to everyone, and I wouldn't want to see it forced onto people.

[Persephone Emerald]

7 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Directed user help.
"Choose an option for your Second Life today:

- Explore

- Customize your Avatar (using free or Shopping)

- Shop

- Find a social group / scene / conversation / dating 

- Build / Create

- Earn L$

- Search for a Linden Home / Mainland Home / Rental Home"

None of these would require "changing Second Life", just simple task-oriented user-directed goals and activities. Simple. A TPV could do it all. Even a HUD could do a lot of it.

6 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Give every noob a gun and a TP to a "damage zone". Gamified.

The new Welcome Hub is almost giving new users these options now. It shows them examples of what can be done in SL and it has Mentors to help them take their first steps.

The Lazer Tag region is an example of a game area, but if no one else is there who wants to play, it's useless. Maybe it should be a zombie infested area instead? The landscape wouldn't even need to be changed. If a user is killed by a zombie, they could be teleported back to the entrance. (I'm guessing that would be easier on the server than sending them back to the central starting region, because they wouldn't be region crossing.)

There needs to be teleports to the other LL games too, but new users would then also have to have an easy way to teleport back to the Welcome Hub.

I think Mad Pea has a shop in the Shopping region or they could have one, with links to their games. Stores that sponsor hunts can do the same.

One thing the Welcome Hub is missing is links to user-created help groups. SL frees and Offers, Fabulously Free, and newcomer help groups that have sandboxes would be a next step beyond the Mentors helping with the basics. Does the Sandbox region have links to Happy Hippo and Builders Brewery? I think it has a link to the Library of Prims.

Learning how to search for and join groups is a basic skill that new users need to learn. I remember being confused when I joined my first group and then didn't know how to remove its tag from over my head.

[Luna Bliss]

7 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

I'm a Clinical Psychologist.  I only come here to get away from work.

How does that make you feel?

[Love Zhaoying]

20 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

How does that make you feel?

You ARE making a joke. Right?

..Right?

[Luna Bliss]

14 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The need to meet psychological and survival requirements is so baked into all of us, that when presented with its absence, most people .. move on.

This is, in my estimation, why Linden homes have been successful for growth of premium membership and retention where everything else has failed. It presents a facsimile of foundational needs for people to complete. Find a place to call home, and in the process, find a foot hold for their place in Second Life.

I think it's great that most people move on -- in this way SL self-selects for creative people. SL does not need to become HUGE to survive. Yes, we need to replace those who die off, and grow a bit, but this could be accomplished via advertising the creative aspects of SL and not the survival parts as most games do.

I don't see Linden homes as fitting into the 'survival' category -- I see them as a way residents can be more creative with their designs. Many spend countless hours decorating their homes, and playing 'game of homes' to find the right one or spark a new creative splurge.

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

26 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

How does that make you feel?

You ARE making a joke. Right?

..Right?

who me?  

[Sid Nagy]

The essential part of SL IMHO is, that it has no pre-made goals, targets and routines.
"Your world, your imagination" was really a great advertisement slogan for this wonderful world of ours.

Thank the forces I don't have to go to the bathroom here, go out for food shopping, have to prepare meals, shoot the neighbors kids of my lawn....

If I want to be a merchant today,  I work for my shop.
If I want to be a dragon... no problem: Wrahhhhhhh (Oops, sorry if I burned your ass.)
I lived on tropical beaches, deep in the forest, in almost every Belli theme and under bridges (because no land).
I walked around as the pope, prince Charles, a parrot, a wolf (who did n't), a tiny lion, and, and, and. I fooled around on beaches, danced the nights away at parties (although I hate to dance in RL)
Sometimes I explore beautiful places, mostly I'm up at my platform fiddling with things

If I want to be grumpy I go to one of the forums (😁).

That is Second Life. Please don't touch it up with (silly) requirements and targets.
People without enough imagination to come up with what to do next, should not be in our wonderful world IMHO. This is not kinder garden.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Sid Nagy
Touched up the text here and there with a capital, comma or a point.

[Luna Bliss]

14 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Obviously this is pure psychology nerd garbage as starving artists exist (to give an extremely simple contradiction). That's not important for this discussion, no need to pick holes in Maslow's pyramid. It's just here to "set the stage".

Charts such as this give us general knowledge -- like an "on average" or "most people" tendency -- and so the fact that all people are not the same does not invalidate it and warrant a "pure psychology nerd garbage" evaluation as you have done here.

Best not to use black & white thinking (all or nothing) with psychological concepts.

[Silent Mistwalker]

7 hours ago, animats said:

It is a nice feature. I wonder how important that is to many users.

Very.

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 hours ago, InnerCity Elf said:

Maybe they could have a "forced zombie stage" every October, to see how it helps, or not, and the "oldbies" would accept it as a passing Halloween fun, or passing Halloween annoyance? 🕊️

After suffering through 50 years of zombie this and zombie that... I'M SICK OF ZOMBIES and the apocalyptic stuff. Give it a rest! ☠️

[Silent Mistwalker]

4 hours ago, Henri Beauchamp said:

I would say that SLers are already among the ”privileged” people who do not need to struggle too much in real life,

I wish that were true. I wonder how many of us have spent their whole lives living paycheck to paycheck. *raises hand

[Love Zhaoying]

Zombies would starve around here. 

Not enough brains.

 

[Sid Nagy]

7 hours ago, animats said:

It is a nice feature. I wonder how important that is to many users.

I've read posts from members who put their avatar in bed every night before they log off.
So, yeah it is kind of important for some/many, I guess.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Sid Nagy
Touched up the text here and there with a capital, comma or a point.

[Coffee Pancake]

9 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

So, we should target SL to those with no attention span and/or low IQ..?

Maybe SL should die out rather than "dumb it down". I would rather not be surrounded by hordes of dumb people (think, "Idiocracy").

Not being able to get though on boarding or "get what the F any of this is for" does not make someone stupid.

I don't think you appreciate just how few people make it from sign up to actual participation. LL don't advertise because they don't need to, signups have always been strong. 

We need new people to come, stay and participate,. We only need a small increase to achieve platform growth. This is why LL are trying to reach people who's have stopped logging in to come back.

We aren't the "smurt people" who figured it out. We're the outliers. Everyone else left.

8 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Agreed, while some of us "like it the way it is". 

"Get off my lawn."

Invite people in before irrelevance forces the powers that be to rip up our precious lawn.