A few issues with SL20B Shop & Hop vendors.

[Zidaya Zenovka]

1. Low-effort gifts. If your shop has a bunch of vehicles and your gift is a low-effort item unrelated to anything you sell that gives me the impression you don't think much of your potential customers. A gift doesn't need to be amazing. There are plenty of cute, simple gifts out there (one of my favorites is a statue of a magician bunny holding out a tophat full of flowers). 

2. Gift cards-Stop giving people gift cards and/or store credit that doesn't work with discounted items. That's not what giving people a 'gift' means. Giving out gift cards in an attempt to force people to go to your main store and spend money goes against the spirit of these events. Everyone else is giving out something. 

3. NOT ENOUGH STUFF FOR GUYS OR BIGGER AVATARS. I get it-a lot of people in SL prefer skinny feminine avatars and/or thick-thighed feminine avatars with giant breasts. I'm glad to see that there are at least a few vendors offering guys outfits but honestly, it really sucks that there isn't enough variety. The real-life fashion industry has been offering more clothing diversity. We have the tech. Why can't artists and Linden Lab work on developing a more robust means of avatar design? I don't see why Saints Row and all these AAA games can make it so people are able to make a huge variety of looks yet we're still stuck with a small variety of appearances and sizes. 

There are tons of amazing vendors this year and I'm grateful for the freebies I've gotten. It's just a few vendors doing annoying things that are bringing the rest of them down. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Zidaya Zenovka

[Chic Aeon]

Number 1   I agree in part -- such as folks who make HAIR giving out HAIR (and some do -- and some don't).  If a brand makes cars and gives out earrings that is just ODD. BUT THEIR CHOICE.  

Number 2 is NOT against the Shop and Hop rules either.  Personally I frequently go to the main store to use a gift card.  So I don't think your point of view is "universal" but of course you have a right to your feelings.

Number 3 -- If folks SELLING those things didn't apply there is no way that they can be included. I think Linden Lab (Missy in this case) has definitely worked hard on variety.   If "you" (and others of course) represent a small market then it is unrealistic to expect creators to cater to that market since they will likely make less money.   That is just common sense.  

 

If I find a vendor doing annoying things (and there was one or two for me this round) I just REMEMBER.  I don't take it out on the folks that gave nice gifts or even the ones that "tried" and didn't really have the skills yet.    

 

Just my opinion. 

[Hunny Bunny]

5 hours ago, Zidaya Zenovka said:

I don't see why Saints Row and all these AAA games can make it so people are able to make a huge variety of looks yet we're still stuck with a small variety of appearances and sizes. 

So, you're saying that you think Second Life has a small variety of appearances and sizes or just the Shop & Hop event?

[Polenth Yue]

There were issues with the old shop and hops lacking variety because they didn't accept a lot of merchants outside a certain area. Once they hired Missy, the range of merchants suddenly improved. It demonstrated that a greater range had been applying, but just not getting in until then. Which means the issue is now coming down to applications.

Areas with fewer shops are going to end up with fewer at the event, but you might be able to persuade some of your favourites to apply. It's a plus under the current system if a shop hasn't done the event before and is selling something that's not as well covered.

[RohanaRaven Zerbino]

7 hours ago, Zidaya Zenovka said:

2. Gift cards-Stop giving people gift cards and/or store credit that doesn't work with discounted items. That's not what giving people a 'gift' means. Giving out gift cards in an attempt to force people to go to your main store and spend money goes against the spirit of these events. Everyone else is giving out something. 

I am honestly confused.

With a gift card or store credit you should be getting free lindens to spend on whatever you want in the shop and practically you are getting the free item, you are not spending your own money, and that is not enough of the gift for you? What am I missing?

[Rowan Amore]

6 hours ago, RohanaRaven Zerbino said:

I am honestly confused.

With a gift card or store credit you should be getting free lindens to spend on whatever you want in the shop and practically you are getting the free item, you are not spending your own money, and that is not enough of the gift for you? What am I missing?

Often, the amount of the gift card is not enough to purchase any regular priced items in the store.  Sale items are often NOT permitted to be purchased with gift cards therefore requiring you to spend your own Ls.  

[Love Zhaoying]

48 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Often, the amount of the gift card is not enough to purchase any regular priced items in the store.  Sale items are often NOT permitted to be purchased with gift cards therefore requiring you to spend your own Ls.  

I see, so it's not really a "gift" if you have to spend additional L$ to use it.  

I bet that's a fun discovery for any truly new / "L$ broke" avatars.

Do you think the stores that use gift cards take this into consideration, and possibly just don't care?

[Gabriele Graves]

At best this kind of thing is a discount coupon.

[Rowan Amore]

56 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

 

Do you think the stores that use gift cards take this into consideration, and possibly just don't care?

They most certainly do take it into consideration, IMO.  It's a marketing tool and as Gabriele said, a discount coupon.  

[Zidaya Zenovka]

16 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Number 1   I agree in part -- such as folks who make HAIR giving out HAIR (and some do -- and some don't).  If a brand makes cars and gives out earrings that is just ODD. BUT THEIR CHOICE.  

Number 2 is NOT against the Shop and Hop rules either.  Personally I frequently go to the main store to use a gift card.  So I don't think your point of view is "universal" but of course you have a right to your feelings.

Number 3 -- If folks SELLING those things didn't apply there is no way that they can be included. I think Linden Lab (Missy in this case) has definitely worked hard on variety.   If "you" (and others of course) represent a small market then it is unrealistic to expect creators to cater to that market since they will likely make less money.   That is just common sense.  

 

If I find a vendor doing annoying things (and there was one or two for me this round) I just REMEMBER.  I don't take it out on the folks that gave nice gifts or even the ones that "tried" and didn't really have the skills yet.    

 

Just my opinion. 

1. Of course it's their choice. My intent was to point out that when it's things like a vendor giving out a lamp that took them five minutes in Blander to make they shouldn't expect it to make anyone all that enthusiastic about giving them their business. 

2. The issue here is in an event where the majority of vendors give out free gifts giving out what amounts to a discount coupon goes against the spirit of the event and is unfair to both those who took the time to visit your display and those giving out items they otherwise could have sold. It's a cheap tactic. Another perfect example of this is the store I just found that has a $350l store credit 'gift'...only you have to spend $350l to join their group to get it. That's not a 'gift'. It's a form of gatekeeping. Can't afford to join our club? Then you don't deserve a freebie. I don't see how this kind of behavior is in any way defensible. 

3. That's the thing-I'm not part of a niche market. I'm part of a market that is woefully underrepresented. There are a lot of people out there who would love to have avatars that aren't thin and/or buxom. You've got big, tall girls, more effeminate flat-chested guys, short stacks...we're not all fashion models or trying to look like one. At least not all the time. Since this is the merchant forum I don't see the harm in pointing out that it wouldn't hurt to offer a wider variety in body shapes, sizes, clothing, and accessories. Just look at real life and at how we're seeing a wider variety of models and clothing options. It's still not great but it's better than it's been. These fashion brands wouldn't be doing so if there wasn't a viable market for it. 

Finally, I'm in no way taking anything out on anyone. Offering my critique and/or criticism of SL's retail landscape and pointing out what I feel are its failings is just that. Critique and/or criticism.  

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Zidaya Zenovka

[Zidaya Zenovka]

6 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Do you think the stores that use gift cards take this into consideration, and possibly just don't care?

I'm sure most are just doing what they've seen plenty of other businesses in both SL and RL do. Capitalism sucks but I'm not trying to imply they're all bad. Only that it's a bad tactic. Of course, there are some who don't care. SL's market is just a virtual extension of the real one and in that regard, it has all the same good and bad aspects. There are a lot of great vendors out there, too. As the old saying goes-let the buyer beware. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Zidaya Zenovka

[Claireschen Hesten]

13 hours ago, RohanaRaven Zerbino said:

I am honestly confused.

With a gift card or store credit you should be getting free lindens to spend on whatever you want in the shop and practically you are getting the free item, you are not spending your own money, and that is not enough of the gift for you? What am I missing?

Some stores have explicitly prevented their credit/gift card from being used at shop & hop and some places made their price points such the card/credit is a couple of L$ short of affording two things or things might cost more than the credit. Some places have made the card/credit time limited if you can't use it right there and then at S&H it could well have run out by the time you do try to use it 

[Zidaya Zenovka]

14 hours ago, RohanaRaven Zerbino said:

I am honestly confused.

With a gift card or store credit you should be getting free lindens to spend on whatever you want in the shop and practically you are getting the free item, you are not spending your own money, and that is not enough of the gift for you? What am I missing?

Giving out free stuff is a pretty ancient idea. You give people something nice (be it expensive or not) and in exchange, you're hoping you get more attention from it. It's an advertising tactic and when done right both the brand and consumer benefit. Calling it a 'gift' is a misnomer as it's really a promotion. As a promotion people aren't obligated to treat it as they would a gift from, say, a friend or relative. The brand doesn't care about you. All they care about is how much it increases foot traffic and brings them profits. 

This is why it's unfair to imply that people complaining about predatory business techniques is a sign of ungratefulness. If anything using anti-consumer techniques like a brand promising a freebie but then giving out a gift card that forces you to go to their main store and spend $l is both ungrateful and really shady. 

Speaking of shadiness I'm not sure why businesses are allowed to put a time limit on gift cards given that according to US federal law gift cards aren't allowed to expire until at least five years from the time they're activated. https://www.fdic.gov/consumers/consumer/news/december2019.html 

 

[Polenth Yue]

3 hours ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

Some stores have explicitly prevented their credit/gift card from being used at shop & hop and some places made their price points such the card/credit is a couple of L$ short of affording two things or things might cost more than the credit. Some places have made the card/credit time limited if you can't use it right there and then at S&H it could well have run out by the time you do try to use it 

On a previous round, one gift card could only be used as a discount on a more expensive house. It couldn't be used for cheaper items that came under the amount. I deleted that after reading the small print. In the end, it's the brand that suffers, as it doesn't leave warm fuzzy feelings. DRD's card from this round though, I got a bunch of items at the main shop for the card price, so I'm happy with that. As long as the card covers at least one regular item in the shop, I don't see that as a problem.

[Chic Aeon]

4 hours ago, Zidaya Zenovka said:

2. The issue here is in an event where the majority of vendors give out free gifts giving out what amounts to a discount coupon goes against the spirit of the event and is unfair to both those who took the time to visit your display and those giving out items they otherwise could have sold. It's a cheap tactic. Another perfect example of this is the store I just found that has a $350l store credit 'gift'...only you have to spend $350l to join their group to get it. That's not a 'gift'. It's a form of gatekeeping. Can't afford to join our club? Then you don't deserve a freebie. I don't see how this kind of behavior is in any way defensible.

Are you SURE that there wasn't also a SL20B gift.

It is OK so far as the rules go  for shops to have "extra" group gifts out but there must be at least ONE gift that is absolutely free to everyone (not even the pay a linden and get it back is allowed rule wise).  There are often stores that have both.   If this is not the case then reporting it to MISSY would be appropriate. She works hard to check all the boxes but that doesn't necessarily mean that the BOXES stay the same after being checked.   

I do agree that having a credit that will not cover ANY purchase in the store should not be allowed. Currently as long as a gift card is 300 or more it is within the rules. I  didn't find any that were less than that but I didn't check every store.   I have only seen one gift card or credit that would not cover the full price of any gift  once and it was this current event and was changed by the creator from the original gift card price. So that might be something to add to the rules next time.    

 

AGAIN, only folks that applied got in (that seems pretty obvious) so I feel it is unjust to blame the event for not having what you want available  but maybe I misunderstood your comments.  Happens.   

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Polenth Yue said:

DRD's card from this round though, I got a bunch of items at the main shop for the card price, so I'm happy with that.

Ditto.

I also was able to spend quite a few of the gift cards / store credit without putting out more of my L$. A few times I ditched the remainder of the card rather than spend my L$ and in a few cases I did spend my L$.  Probably at least 80% of the cards/credit that I got on this S&H were enough to cover at least one item.

My biggest complaint about the gift cards & store credit is when they expire right when the Shop & Hop ends.  There have been S&H events in the past where I didn't even get there until the last few days.  A a previous S&H, sometime within the past year, I even picked up a store card that actually expired the day before S&H ended.

[LittleMe Jewell]

5 hours ago, Zidaya Zenovka said:

Another perfect example of this is the store I just found that has a $350l store credit 'gift'...only you have to spend $350l to join their group to get it. That's not a 'gift'.

In that store, there is another item that is the actual SL20B gift, but some stores also provide Group Gifts at the Shop & Hop and sometimes those groups do cost money to join. 

Also, some stores make it a bit difficult to actually find the true gift item.  Those merchants irritate me.

[Psyche Starling]

2 hours ago, Polenth Yue said:

On a previous round, one gift card could only be used as a discount on a more expensive house. It couldn't be used for cheaper items that came under the amount. I deleted that after reading the small print. In the end, it's the brand that suffers, as it doesn't leave warm fuzzy feelings. DRD's card from this round though, I got a bunch of items at the main shop for the card price, so I'm happy with that. As long as the card covers at least one regular item in the shop, I don't see that as a problem.

I remember that one! There was artwork in the S&H store that would have been nice, but nope, it had to be a house and you had to personally contact them before trying to use it too. I deleted it.

DRD's was fantastic and generous and I got a couple of fun things with it!

[Rowan Amore]

6 hours ago, Zidaya Zenovka said:

You've got big, tall girls, more effeminate flat-chested guys, short stacks...we're not all fashion models or trying to look like one. At least not all the time. Since this is the merchant forum I don't see the harm in pointing out that it wouldn't hurt to offer a wider variety in body shapes, sizes, clothing, and accessories.

I'm not understanding what you mean by this.  Depending on which body you choose, you can shape it any way you'd like.  Tall, short, thick, thin.  The clothing rigged for.that body would fit regardless.  Unless I'm missing something?

[Zidaya Zenovka]

"Are you SURE that there wasn't also a SL20B gift." 

After going through half the sims so far I can't remember a single shop giving out gift cards that also gave out a gift. I have seen extra group gifts and have no issue with that. I've only seen the one requiring people spend money to join their group to get a card. 

"There must be at least ONE gift that is absolutely free to everyone (not even the pay a linden and get it back is allowed rule wise)/
 

Not all stores are following this, then and so far I've hit three or four that required I spend $1l. 

"If this is not the case then reporting it to MISSY would be appropriate." 

I'm not naming names because at the end of the day, I'm not interested in calling out individuals. It's the system and how it's been for as long as I've been in SL (since '07) I have an issue with. That said if Missy sees this and would like more feedback I'm more than happy to give it. 

"I  didn't find any that were less than that but I didn't check every store." 

I found one that had two cards-one for $150l and another for $100l. They were the type where you need to touch the vendor to use it rather than it adding the value of the card to your credit. It makes it so one has to pay whatever balance is left on each card for each purchase. 

I mostly came here to talk about it in hopes of individual vendors seeing this and noting my issues as contacting the person or persons in charge or talking with individual vendors is very stressful. It shouldn't be up to me to bring this stuff to LL's attention.  While I understand a lot of time, effort, and work goes into these events I can't help feeling a bit more time could have been spent making sure vendors were following the rules and/or making sure the rules cover things like gift cards not covering discounted event items/not being valid for said items.  

"Only folks that applied got in (that seems pretty obvious) so I feel it is unjust to blame the event for not having what you want available but maybe I misunderstood your comments."

I'm not blaming the event at all. I've had a lot of fun with it so far. My issues with fashion are aimed at all clothing/outfit merchants across the grid in general. Perhaps I should have saved it for its own thread but I'm unused to the forum format. Discord has ruined my ability to focus.  

[LittleMe Jewell]

18 minutes ago, Zidaya Zenovka said:

"There must be at least ONE gift that is absolutely free to everyone (not even the pay a linden and get it back is allowed rule wise)/
 

Not all stores are following this, then and so far I've hit three or four that required I spend $1l. 

Yes, there were some, but they all paid the L$1 back to you.  Check you L$ History.

[Zidaya Zenovka]

8 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Yes, there were some, but they all paid the L$1 back to you.  Check you L$ History.

I know they gave it back. It's the fact they did it at all. Not everyone wants or needs their transaction history registered with Caspervend or have the ability to buy $l (I'm disabled & have a caretaker-all my money goes to bills). 

[Claireschen Hesten]

2 hours ago, Zidaya Zenovka said:

I know they gave it back. It's the fact they did it at all. Not everyone wants or needs their transaction history registered with Caspervend or have the ability to buy $l (I'm disabled & have a caretaker-all my money goes to bills). 

If the vendor uses Casper you can click or right click > touch and one of the options on the blue dialogue if it's meant to be a freebie is 'Deliver' you don't need a single L$ for that to work