Mainland neighbors with low low low skyboxes

[Coffee Pancake]

45 minutes ago, Johnny Giotto said:

Let me ask you this, if it was possible for LL, with one command, raise all  skyboxes to a minimum height, would that really be so bad? Just try and imagine travelling around these beautiful sims and not seeing a skybox

No, they can't do for many technical reasons .. the biggest being the end result would be hodge podge garbage.

They could change policy and then encourage people to move their stuff or it gets returned, but that will never happen.

 

I guess .. just be thankful it's ONLY a skybox, and not a quarter region sized mega prim that casts a huge shadow on the sim floor.

Reported it .. Still there .. so 🔥🔥 This is fine??     🔥🔥

[Johnny Giotto]

10 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

No, they can't do for many technical reasons .. the biggest being the end result would be hodge podge garbage.

They could change policy and then encourage people to move their stuff or it gets returned, but that will never happen.

 

I guess .. just be thankful it's ONLY a skybox, and not a quarter region sized mega prim that casts a huge shadow on the sim floor.

Reported it .. Still there .. so 🔥🔥 This is fine??     🔥🔥

I appreciate your response but it was a hypothetical question. I do realise it is never going to happen but I like your idea of encouraging people to do it voluntarily. Who knows, it might catch on.

[Gabriele Graves]

8 hours ago, Johnny Giotto said:

First let me apologise for incorrect assumption that you were referring to my post... I am genuinely sorry.

No worries, it's nothing.

9 hours ago, Johnny Giotto said:

As for feeling entitled, you have me 100% wrong on that.

I'm sorry but that's not the way you are coming across to me.

8 hours ago, Johnny Giotto said:

I am not trying to remove skyboxes, just get them to be proper skyboxes, higher up in the sky.

That's the first problem, what defines a skybox?  Really the only definition that would really fit is "an object in the sky".  Which should be the first clue that tells you it just wouldn't work.

8 hours ago, Johnny Giotto said:

I do not understand why anyone, including the owner of a skybox, would want to be able to see it from their Earth bound property, unless it was a true extension spiralling up into the sky.

Again, because you don't understand their motivations isn't reason to assume there are no good reasons.  Just accept you cannot empathise and move on.

8 hours ago, Johnny Giotto said:

Let me ask you this, if it was possible for LL, with one command, raise all  skyboxes to a minimum height, would that really be so bad?

Yes it would really be so bad.  Worse in fact.  It would be an unmitigated disaster.
It's simple to say, not so easy to achieve with good results and that's even if it's desirable.

I'm very certain it really isn't as universally desired as you seem to think.

An automated process that has no idea of context would fall foul of the law of unintended consequences and destroy the builds that some people have have painstakingly created.  I happen to think LL are already aware of what would happen and don't wish to cause themselves the knock-on effects that will absolutely occur.

If you don't understand why this would occur then you still have much to learn about second life builds.
 

8 hours ago, Johnny Giotto said:

So, in this case, everyone who has a mainland parcel puts up a skybox that can be seen from the ground, what happens to the sky?

Nothing happens, nothing at all.  The sky does not fall.  Everyone could already be doing this and yet isn't.  Seems very Chicken Little to me.

I have a neighbour close by that has a floating building (though not by definition a skybox as such) lower than 200m.  She is more bothered by my ground-based builds than I am by her floating one.  It doesn't even bother me.  I live in an area with elevators and all manner of other floating things that I don't care one whit about.  Why should I?

You have to appreciate that there are very different perspectives on things like this.  Yours may not be the majority perspective.  Everyone loves/hates very different things.

If we capitulated to remove everything that someone hated about Mainland it would just be empty land.  Even then, at that point, somebody would come along to complain about the terraforming and land textures.

The real question is why you feel the need to travel to places you clearly don't like that much and complain about them instead of sticking to the nice areas you do like and not have the problem?
 

[Always Incognito]

Your world, your imagination...

 

[Clem Marques]

"Low low low skyboxes" are a nightmare. I feel your pain.

Having the view ruined by a neighbor's eyesore is pretty much an integral part of the Mainland experience 😆

Edited July 22, 2023 by Clem Marques

[Johnny Giotto]

On 7/22/2023 at 8:51 AM, Clem Marques said:

"Low low low skyboxes" are a nightmare. I feel your pain.

Having the view ruined by a neighbor's eyesore is pretty much an integral part of the Mainland experience 😆

Thanks Clem, that is exactly what I'm talking about. It definitely puts me off transferring my Linden land allowance to Mainland.

[Gabriele Graves]

Here's the thing though about this kind of build, LL and the rules.  Let's say for arguments sake that LL banned low skyboxes on Mainland such as the one in the picture.  What do you suppose would happen?  That the person would remove it?  It would be incredibly naive to think that.

Here's what would happen, if they did anything at all, the owner of such a build would move it lower, say to 64m, then attach a thick column underneath to connect it to the ground.

Voila! Good bye skybox and hello ground anchored dwelling that is well within the rules.

What would that achieve?  The ex-skybox moves lower and gains a massive prim column.  Did that help at all?  I'd expect not.

So what would have to happen next to truly make a rule to remove all dwellings like that?

LL would really only have the option that they exercised to control Bellisseria.  Mainland would become just an extension of Bellisseria and people would be forbidden from any meaningful deviation from the themes that LL created.

This bit is important: It's only because LL provides the dwelling and people are forbidden from plopping down any old house/dwelling of their choosing that they are able to avoid these "problems" in Bellisseria at ground level.  Don't believe me?  Go look at the altitude that people are allow to put skyboxes at and marvel at the range of eyesores.  @Coffee Pancake was absolutely right about it being the same skybox problem albeit less dense and contained higher.

I remember LL having to return a lot of people's heliopads and other crazy "eyesore" stuff attached to roofs.  Initially there was no build height rule, then there was because the rules had to be ratcheted up to keep pace with all the things crazy things that people built and which detracted from the serene picturesque perfect streets that LL envisaged.

If putting custom dwellings at ground level was unrestricted, some of those skyboxes would most likely also feature as ground anchored dwellings.

That's the bottom line.  To deal with just the above example, that is what it would take.  Mainland becoming Bellisseria.

There's a reason that not every Mainlander has migrated to Bellisseria by preference.  If I were a betting person, I would bet on it being very common for people to have at least one Mainland parcel as well as a Bellisseria Home.  Even people who love Bellisseria don't always want that as their only option.  They often want a place with much more freedoms as well even though those freedoms come at the cost of having to have to put up with things they don't like and consider ugly.  That option wouldn't exist if LL attempted to control builds on Mainland.

Now I expect one of a couple responses to this:

1. Disagreeing that going this far this would be necessary.  Perhaps even calling it a slippery-slope fallacy.  This isn't one of those because the only places that have dealt to these things to any degree are fully managed estates like Bellisseria or private islands where they all have in common the love of a lot of rules and themes that must be followed.  There are no examples of places with policies that have minimal-to-no rules and no theming with a magic rule to disallow low low low skyboxes where it has actually worked.
    
2. Agreeing with me and saying that this is indeed necessary to "save" Mainland and that it should all be like Bellisseria.  Good luck with that!  LL have already stated that Bellisseria is a training wheels introductory land product with private estate and the lawless wild-west Mainland being the advanced options.  It would be some about face to change the product that much and would be highly risky financially for them.

This is the reality and whilst folks can surely come here to vent their like/dislikes and frustrations with it, it does seem a little pointless but hey if that's what folks want to do, all the power to them.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Gabriele Graves

[Always Incognito]

21 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Here's the thing though about this kind of build, LL and the rules.  Let's say for arguments sake that LL banned low skyboxes on Mainland such as the one in the picture.  What do you suppose would happen?  That the person would remove it?  It would be incredibly naive to think that.

Here's what would happen, if they did anything at all, the owner of such a build would move it lower, say to 64m, then attach a thick column underneath to connect it to the ground.

Voila! Good bye skybox and hello ground anchored dwelling that is well within the rules.

What would that achieve?  The ex-skybox moves lower and gains a massive prim column.  Did that help at all?  I'd expect not.

So what would have to happen next to truly make a rule to remove all dwellings like that?

LL would really only have the option that they exercised to control Bellisseria.  Mainland would become just an extension of Bellisseria and people would be forbidden from any meaningful deviation from the themes that LL created.

This bit is important: It's only because LL provides the dwelling and people are forbidden from plopping down any old house/dwelling of their choosing that they are able to avoid these "problems" in Bellisseria at ground level.  Don't believe me?  Go look at the altitude that people are allow to put skyboxes at and marvel at the range of eyesores.  @Coffee Pancake was absolutely right about it being the same skybox problem albeit less dense and contained higher.

I remember LL having to return a lot of people's heliopads and other crazy "eyesore" stuff attached to roofs.  Initially there was no build height rule, then there was because the rules had to be ratcheted up to keep pace with all the things crazy things that people built and which detracted from the serene picturesque perfect streets that LL envisaged.

If putting custom dwellings at ground level was unrestricted, some of those skyboxes would most likely also feature as ground anchored dwellings.

That's the bottom line.  To deal with just the above example, that is what it would take.  Mainland becoming Bellisseria.

There's a reason that not every Mainlander has migrated to Bellisseria by preference.  If I were a betting person, I would bet on it being very common for people to have at least one Mainland parcel as well as a Bellisseria Home.  Even people who love Bellisseria don't always want that as their only option.  They often want a place with much more freedoms as well even though those freedoms come at the cost of having to have to put up with things they don't like and consider ugly.  That option wouldn't exist if LL attempted to control builds on Mainland.

Now I expect one of a couple responses to this:

1. Disagreeing that going this far this would be necessary.  Perhaps even calling it a slippery-slope fallacy.  This isn't one of those because the only places that have dealt to these things to any degree are fully managed estates like Bellisseria or private islands where they all have in common the love of a lot of rules and themes that must be followed.  There are no examples of places with policies that have minimal-to-no rules and no theming with a magic rule to disallow low low low skyboxes where it has actually worked.
    
2. Agreeing with me and saying that this is indeed necessary to "save" Mainland and that it should all be like Bellisseria.  Good luck with that!  LL have already stated that Bellisseria is a training wheels introductory land product with private estate and the lawless wild-west Mainland being the advanced options.  It would be some about face to change the product that much and would be highly risky financially for them.

This is the reality and whilst folks can surely come here to vent their like/dislikes and frustrations with it, it does seem a little pointless but hey if that's what folks want to do, all the power to them.

This is true sadly, LL rigged it like this from the beginning and its not possible to ”undo” that now. I just which They could have had different options on the continents from start. And maybee smaller continents or more water and roads…For example ”wild west” on Sansara and on the next continent some kind of rules (against black boxes, low sky blight & ugly walls for x) and maybee a light theme But not strict as Bellisseria. Horizon is one example… Just dreaming tho 😇 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

On 7/27/2023 at 3:49 AM, Johnny Giotto said:

Thanks Clem, that is exactly what I'm talking about. It definitely puts me off transferring my Linden land allowance to Mainland.

there are almost wholy abandoned sims on mainland, find a giant abandoned parcel, walk out to the middle and have LL cut you off a piece the size you want.

You won’t have any neighbors.

I recommend one of those rock textured sims, apparently everyone hates then.

Rezz a prim, stretch it out to the limits of your land, hollow it out, stretch it so it hits the ground on all points, add a nice brick or stone block wall texture, then rezz another prim, stretch it to reach the first and slightly lower, then add the ground texture of your choice, and,

Volia you have a nice flat parcel that you can build your home on, free from annoying neighbors. 

If you chose the land that is the highest point, you can have a mansion on the hill, with a view 😁

Edited July 28, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
spelling, added stuff

[Flower Caerndow]

4 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

there are almost wholy abandoned sims on mainland, find a giant abandoned parcel, walk out to the middle and have LL cut you off a piece the size you want.

Tried that before - but was told I could only request a parcel that was along an existing boundary line.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

16 minutes ago, Flower Caerndow said:

Tried that before - but was told I could only request a parcel that was along an existing boundary line.

hmmm its like they want to make things as difficult as possible, “ we wont cut a 4096 out of middle because someone might want the whole thing someday”

 

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

EDIT: Oops... Didn't realize I was necro-posting to an old thread.

 

On 5/14/2023 at 10:12 AM, Qie Niangao said:

In theory Bellisseria might have acted as a kind of training ground for new landowners, to get a sense of what's generally acceptable behavior for living in a Second Life neighborhood. I'm not sure it's working out that way, though.

I think it's actually working as a sort of quality sifter.

Folks who are not [censored] [censoreds] have ended up spending more and more time on Belli or estates.

The folks left on mainland are filtering down into "I hate nice things and I hate happy people", "I spent too much on this plot to leave now", or "what's SL? Oh that thing I got a lifetime account on back in 2006?"

And one new category of "I didn't like the ranch theme, but still got Premium Plus, so where can I grab 1024-1536m of land and not go insane over how ugly it ends up being?"

- This last category will become a problem when they start to realize that land barons that charge jacked up prices and / or rez weird builds afford their tier by paying other people to donate it to them...

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by UnilWay SpiritWeaver

[Gabriele Graves]

Many people have both a Bellisseria home and some Mainland.  So theories that seek to make out that there are better people over there than those undesirables over there are fallacious.

It's tempting to try to characterise and generalise "types" or "groups" of people but mostly we look through the lens of our own biases when we do that especially when we are trying to minimise, look down on or in any other way demean them in order to bolster a viewpoint.  However that's all it is and has little to no legitimacy.

Mainland is simply a place where people don't have to conform to what other people try to enforce upon them whether it be LL with a covenant or by others hating on them because they didn't build something that fits in with what they would like to see.  That's it, no really it is.  Whatever motivates them to want/need that is many and varied.

The real story here is this:

Some people have unilaterally decided that Mainland should no longer be what it has always been, probably somewhere along the way when Bellisseria was being built, and now Mainland in their eyes should only be a place of aesthetic beauty no matter what else has to happen to achieve that.

It's weird that those people aren't just embracing Bellisseria instead and leaving others on Mainland to get along in their own way.  However somehow Bellisseria just doesn't make them happy despite them declaring that "exactly that type of thing" would over and over again.  That in my opinion lends even less substance to their insistence about changing Mainland.

Even if they got their way I doubt that it would make them happy either.

There should always be a place in SL for a land product with very few restrictions and Mainland fills that niche perfectly.  Debate can rage about whether there needs to be so much as there is left unrestricted to cater to those who want it but nevertheless the issue isn't whether we need it, it's just how much of it we need.
 

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Many people have both a Bellisseria home and some Mainland.  So theories that seek to make out that there are better people over there than those undesirables over there are fallacious.

It's tempting to try to characterise and generalise "types" or "groups" of people but mostly we look through the lens of our own biases when we do that especially when we are trying to minimise, look down on or in any other way demean them in order to bolster a viewpoint.  However that's all it is and has little to no legitimacy.

Mainland is simply a place where people don't have to conform to what other people try to enforce upon them whether it be LL with a covenant or by others hating on them because they didn't build something that fits in with what they would like to see.  That's it, no really it is.  Whatever motivates them to want/need that is many and varied.

The real story here is this:

Some people have unilaterally decided that Mainland should no longer be what it has always been, probably somewhere along the way when Bellisseria was being built, and now Mainland in their eyes should only be a place of aesthetic beauty no matter what else has to happen to achieve that.

It's weird that those people aren't just embracing Bellisseria instead and leaving others on Mainland to get along in their own way.  However somehow Bellisseria just doesn't make them happy despite them declaring that "exactly that type of thing" would over and over again.  That in my opinion lends even less substance to their insistence about changing Mainland.

Even if they got their way I doubt that it would make them happy either.

There should always be a place in SL for a land product with very few restrictions and Mainland fills that niche perfectly.  Debate can rage about whether there needs to be so much as there is left unrestricted to cater to those who want it but nevertheless the issue isn't whether we need it, it's just how much of it we need.
 

People also don't change just because they move from Mainland to Bellisseria or visa versa. Some of us want to make the neighborhood look good, but even this idea is subjective. When I was last on mainland, I created a woods with a waterfall and stream on my ground level. Maybe some neighbors didn't like the sound of the waterfall, but no one complained to me. I didn't like the sound of my neighbor's horses when I was on the ground, but I didn't complain to them. I just derendered the horses, which also muted them. Some neighbor in Belli might not like my swimming pool or something, so they could derender that, just as I derender brightly glowing stuff. 

If you find something objectionable that is against the rules, you can remind that neighbor of the rules, then report them if they don't change it. If it's not against the rules for where you're living, either derender it or move.

When I complain about mainland, however, I'm considering it from the possible perspective of new players who wouldn't be used to our laissez faire culture and historic prim builds. I want SL to look good so new people will want to stay in this virtual world.

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

That was meant somewhat in humor but reads back kind of strong and aggressive and editing posts goes away really fast here.

Let me try a different angle. This gets wordy because I'm "trying" here to not say something that will trigger people when that's not my intention...

 

Belli isn't "teaching" folks to behave a certain way when they get lots on mainland. I think instead it's sifting away from mainland all of the folks that want easy community - that want their neighbors to build without disrupting each other and/or expect people to look around when they make a build and ensure what they rez isn't clashing with what's there.

I know things like the East River community broke up for other reasons having nothing to do with Belli (I think. I don't actually know what happened but I think it's not related to this topic - I thought I read it was due to one landowner's billing or something). BUT making a community like that now is much harder when for half your members it's "easier" to just get a linden home and not bother with going to community standards meetings or something. Belli is low effort / high reward for such residents. Which makes it as great 'product' for LL. Easy appeal.

 

It's NOT sifting out the people that expect to do 'neighborly builds' themselves...

It's sifting out the people that expect everyone else to do it around them. Some of these people ALSO will do it themselves, some just expect others to. We can see looking at Belli than it still has people who expect it from others but don't build their own stuff with those others in mind.

(Belli also just gets people who just end up there and don't know what from where about the rules. But those folks, when they break the rules, end up on the wrong side of policy - albeit slowly when governance is swamped.)

 

Not everyone who wants a communally agreed upon set of standards even wants the Belli ones in specific - but they're the option we got as far as 'mainland' goes.

I'd love some portion of mainland where there were some rules, but we could put down our own houses (a version of this almost existed north of Zindra but has land baron pricing issues). You'd need some vague rule - and it'd sadly take very active governance because the rule would have to be almost too vague to be clear. Like "don't be a jerk, and don't make ugly builds below X-height" <--- figuring out fair enforcement of that would be... a task... How do you define what's ugly... Other wording like 'disruptive', 'clashing theme', etc, instead of ugly would have similar problems... Who and how to rule on it?

But it's very roughly what the moles often say the intent of Belli's rules is.

Some people love the 'anarchy' of mainland. But a lot of other people want some level of rules. There should be a middle ground between Mainland's anarchy and Belli's strongly-presented theming. Some middle that makes it easier for communities like Bay City and East River to 'hold the line' - but without taking away the mainland others love.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by UnilWay SpiritWeaver

[Rowan Amore]

Not sure why they don't just do new regions exactly as they did Horizons minus the double prim/adult aspect.  1024 or 2048 for PP, not joinable, house options you can use or not use,  the rules more or less that Belli has.  Not sellable either.  Belli without the cookie cutter look.

Seems like a viable option to me.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

I know things like the East River community broke up for other reasons having nothing to do with Belli (I think. I don't actually know what happened but I think it's not related to this topic - I thought I read it was due to one landowner's billing or something).

Actually, it IS fairly relevant to your points about "the Kommunity, and it's need for a Kommisar Kommando Korps" etc.

East River was some pre-Belli proto Kommunity Kommissar, trying to build an upscale privately owned proto-Bellicosia. They spent best part of a decade aquirring 9 regions worth of land, and covering most of it in public landscaping and Kommunity infrastructure, then tried financing that by overcharging for the rented parcels, problem is even at fairly over the top rental prices, the rents only covered about HALF the tier, so being a rich b*tch, she paid the rest out of her own pocket, which allowed her to play "Queen of the River".

 

Then their money ran out, and they tried begging the "dirty poor under class" who didn't live there to donate to keeping her Designed-To-Fail Kommunity alive. That didn't work, so they sold it to a bailout group, who tried updating the place to be more commercially viable, without much success.

 

Thing is, places like Bellicosia don't get made by the private sector because, financially, they DO NOT WORK. Realistically, every Belli 1024 parcel, is actually a 2x prim 1024, you get the 351 prims for the 1024 to use for home & garden items, AND another 351 prims in mole-tech inter-parcel landscaping and the overly primmy houses.

Imagine how popular Belli would be if you had to be on the 2048 tier band to own a house there, or had to pay double rent.

 

Belli is basically a loss-leader, you pay for 1024, but get 2048's worth of build. This creates a sense of overentitlement, that spills over when Bellicosia-Trained people leave the Privilege Ghetto, and visit Mainland.

 

"But why isn't your house available for me to explore? But why are people allowed to open stores selling shoes and clothes? But why are people allowed to build dance clubs? But why are people not forced to live in Little Boxes Made Of Ticky-Tacky That All Look Just The Same? Y'all should be made to live like us Bellicosians, we're BETTER PEOPLE and y'all just be [censored] [censored]s!"

 

1 hour ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

I'd love some portion of mainland where there were some rules, but we could put down our own houses (a version of this almost existed north of Zindra but has land baron pricing issues). You'd need some vague rule - and it'd sadly take very active governance because the rule would have to be almost too vague to be clear. Like "don't be a jerk, and don't make ugly builds below X-height" <--- figuring out fair enforcement of that would be... a task... How do you define what's ugly... Other wording like 'disruptive', 'clashing theme', etc, instead of ugly would have similar problems... Who and how to rule on it?

Horizons, "north of Zindra" is nothing like what you seem to want, about the only rule is no terraforming or parcel joining/cutting.

As for "clashing theme", a while back, somebody posted a thread in which they boasted about building a rural Japanese/south Korean train stop on a parcel they had just bought, because "they wanted to stay in theme with the rest of the builds on the region".

At the time, the ONLY other ground level builds on the region were a full bright primcrap rail line that didn't really work as it was never really finished, and predating that, a small stepped pyramid. Not sure how a rural Japanese train stop fits into the theme of a stepped pyramid, but hey it's Kommunity oriented right? And non commercial, so it's all good!

"But", I can hear you thinking, "it's on Satori, the Japanese Themed continent", and then comes the suggestion that ALL Satorians should be FORCED to stay in the Official Japanese Theme, so lets bulldoze 99% of the continents privately owned structures, for a "Kommisar Korps Kommanded Kommunity of Better People!".

Then there's that continent with the Korean name, obviously that will need bulldozing and ethnic cleansing too, right?

 

1 hour ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

I'm "trying" here to not say something that will trigger people when that's not my intention...

You failed, arrogant anti-Mainlander BS is still arrogant anti-Mainlander BS even when wrapped up in verbose claptrap and pretty red ribbons with fancy bows.

 

In another thread you stated that you would like to see stores banned from having ground level builds on Mainland because YOUU don't want to see non residential properties near your parcel, but I noticed while you're apparently happy to drive out shops owned by small brand merchants, you seem FINE with those ugly Truck-Driver-RP STFU-Hub things.

You're probably fine with ugly airports too, as long as its a couple or three regions away, right?

 

Meh.

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

4 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

In another thread you stated that you would like to see stores banned from having ground level builds on Mainland because YOUU don't want to see non residential properties near your parcel, but I noticed while you're apparently happy to drive out shops owned by small brand merchants, you seem FINE with those ugly Truck-Driver-RP STFU-Hub things.

You're probably fine with ugly airports too, as long as its a couple or three regions away, right?

I did say I don't like stores at ground. They're very often tacky. Not always, but often. I don't believe I said ban them. Has nothing to do with non-residential or not. I don't recall saying anything about the truck driver parcels or airports. But if you're against rules on mainland then you'd have to start by not being opposed to those.

You seem to desire an argument, for which you're conflating my opinion with perhaps that of others as well. I don't. I'm not even against mainland. I've owned mainland longer than I've had this account. I do wish people would take care for community more. I make my mainland ground builds always with an eye towards trying to be appealing to the people around me. I am less constrained in my skyboxes.

 

Moving a store to 1000m in height does nothing to harm a brand, small or large. It would be a different discussion is exploring by traveling the grid "on foot / vehicle" was still a major thing - but for that to be a thing not only does ground itself needs to be less laggy, but it hasn't been a major thing since teleporting became free (it used to cost $L to teleport).

If anything it may help to not have off-brand distractions nearby. Focus the attention better. I personally think the 2000m rule Belli has for skyboxes is higher than needed but they know more than me so maybe they chose that number for some technology-based reason? The only reason I tend to like 1000m is that at that distance the ground isn't rendered anymore - which helps your shoppers with lag issues (If I recall right a major cause of graphics lag is actually rendering the 'water layer' that's under the ground - especially if you have water settings dialed up).

[elleevelyn]

On 5/15/2023 at 1:52 AM, Johnny Giotto said:

If you have a low level Skybox, why would you be offended if it had to be placed higher when you TP to it anyway?

is called: Entitled to the view that my neighbours make for me

like I would be totally offended if I couldn't enjoy the view of my neighbours lovely parcels from my ugly skybox. Totes totally even

[Teresa Firelight]

15 hours ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

Moving a store to 1000m in height does nothing to harm a brand, small or large.

I disagree with you.  If a store is up in the sky and a person is walking down the street, they wont see it and know it is there when they pass it.... and that means potential customers are lost because the store is not in sight when they walk by it. Lost sales harms the brand.

I have discovered more than one store that I have shopped at when walking around.  I like to believe that other people have as well.

[Qie Niangao]

8 minutes ago, Teresa Firelight said:

I disagree with you.  If a store is up in the sky and a person is walking down the street, they wont see it and know it is there when they pass it.... and that means potential customers are lost because the store is not in sight when they walk by it. Lost sales harms the brand.

I have discovered more than one store that I have shopped at when walking around.  I like to believe that other people have as well.

It happens, I've certainly done it too, but there's a tradeoff: stuff rezzes much faster in the sky than on the ground, particularly on Mainland, where there may be multiple regions of terrain geometry and disparate landowner builds within draw distance. Unless there's something in all that surrounding scenery that improves the marketability of a store's product, it may be better off up in the sky where Search and Landmark shoppers have a better experience, even at the expense of occasional foot traffic.

One example might be D-Lab, which has long had a very successful Mainland store in the sky. Their ground level is a quite appealing patch of Atoll, too, but I think they made the right choice putting the store in the sky.

An exception might be the more "commercial" areas of Bay City. Even there the foot traffic is rare, but very subjectively it doesn't seem so unusual to stop in and look around a store there.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

So why not have a simple storefront at ground level with a teleporter to the main store 1000 m up?

You get the foot traffic, and faster rezzing.

 

[PermaRuthed]

On 8/27/2023 at 5:48 PM, Zalificent Corvinus said:

"k-k this, k-k that, and some angsty spelling variants of Bellisseria sprinkled in"

 

You must've been banned from numerous places to hold such animosity towards a certain subset of residents.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

5 hours ago, PermaRuthed said:

You must've been banned from numerous places to hold such animosity towards a certain subset of residents.

No, but my orb has banned a fair number of Bellicosians from my home.

The animosity isn't from being banned from THEIR homes, I don't invade THEIR homes. It's from them invading MINE, and constantly demanding that I should have no right to punt kick and ban them for invading, and that my home should be a public theme park for THEM to enjoy, at MY expense..

 

[Persephone Emerald]

48 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

No, but my orb has banned a fair number of Bellicosians from my home.

The animosity isn't from being banned from THEIR homes, I don't invade THEIR homes. It's from them invading MINE, and constantly demanding that I should have no right to punt kick and ban them for invading, and that my home should be a public theme park for THEM to enjoy, at MY expense..

I hear roving bands of Belliscosians have become a big problem on mainland lately. There just aren't enough fun things to do in Bellisseria, the Welcome Hub is boring, and the anniversary sale events make it too hard to get free gifts.