Owned Object No Mod , modified by another person ?? what the hell ?

[Ophelie Ayres]

Hello everyone, I hope I'm in the right section of the forum for this topic:
This morning I had the unpleasant surprise to discover my car with a big grey prim mesh linked to it.
The car has manufacturer's rights No Mod
see the picture below : 

 

 

I don't understand how this is possible 
and above all it is a proof that the security of our objects is not assured in SL (this is not new).

So my question is: how is it possible that someone who is not the owner of the object and the object itself is not editable can edit it, let alone link something to it?

Needless to say, I did not test drive the vehicle afterwards, let alone take it back into my inventory

If anyone can help me with my questions, they would be most welcome

I wish you a good end of day/night etc... 😃
Hugs ❤️
LiLi

Edited April 3, 2023 by Ophelie Ayres

[Odaks]

Your first photo shows your car in edit mode, highlighted. I note that the mystery grey prim does not appear to be highlighted, which suggests that it is NOT linked to your car. If this is the case, the mystery grey prim has probably "landed" there as a result of an accidental loss of control while moving it around elsewhere. The owner of that prim, having lost sight sight of it, may have assumed it was lost forever and just given up looking for it.

Just try moving your car using the edit "move"controls. You should find that the grey prim will stay where it is. If you have control of the ground where the prim is, you should be able to just Return it.

The third photo seems to indicate that they grey prim is a linked part, however. That, indeed, is a mystery! Maybe someone else has an answer if so. It beats me, I'm afraid.

 

PS

Looking more closely at the first photo, perhaps the grey prim is highlighted, along with the car. It shows very faintly on my laptop display - so faintly that I missed it at first.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Odaks
Correction

[Ophelie Ayres]

1 hour ago, Odaks said:

Your first photo shows your car in edit mode, highlighted. I note that the mystery grey prim does not appear to be highlighted, which suggests that it is NOT linked to your car. If this is the case, the mystery grey prim has probably "landed" there as a result of an accidental loss of control while moving it around elsewhere. The owner of that prim, having lost sight sight of it, may have assumed it was lost forever and just given up looking for it.

Just try moving your car using the edit "move"controls. You should find that the grey prim will stay where it is. If you have control of the ground where the prim is, you should be able to just Return it.

The third photo seems to indicate that they grey prim is a linked part, however. That, indeed, is a mystery! Maybe someone else has an answer if so. It beats me, I'm afraid.

 

PS

Looking more closely at the first photo, perhaps the grey prim is highlighted, along with the car. It shows very faintly on my laptop display - so faintly that I missed it at first.

I can confirm that the prim is linked to the car and I have been building long enough to know the difference  thank you so much for the reply 😘

[Qie Niangao]

The pics are confusing to me. In some of them, the editor is showing "(multiple)" Owners, which means more than one separate object must be selected. Whatever was selected when those particular pictures were taken, not all that stuff was linked together. But maybe there was something else selected besides the car and grey cube when those were taken.

But even the first and second pics show different owners of whatever is selected in them, and it's simply impossible for a linked object to consist of links with different owners.

Either I don't understand what the pics are trying to show, or these are two separate objects (or the viewer is doing something crazy, so does it look different in the Linden viewer?).

Edited April 3, 2023 by Qie Niangao
(typo)

[Ophelie Ayres]

1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

The pics are confusing to me. In some of them, the editor is showing "(multiple)" Owners, which means more than one separate object must be selected. Whatever was selected when those particular pictures were taken, not all that stuff was linked together. But maybe there was something else selected besides the car and grey cube when those were taken.

But even the first and second pics show different owners of whatever is selected in them, and it's simply impossible for a linked object to consist of links with different owners.

Either I don't understand what the pics are trying to show, or these are two separate object (or the viewer is doing something crazy, so does it look different in the Linden viewer?).

What I'm trying to show is very simple, the car is mine, it's built by AMC, it has Copy only rights.

And someone managed to link a prim to it which is theoretically impossible with these rights : No Mod / No Trans .

So I want to understand how this is possible in which case this deserves a report to linden lab

Ps : I withdraw the pictures too many and maybe not so explicit

[Qie Niangao]

Is it possible to see this thing in-world? I'm still baffled how Inspect Objects thinks it has only one object selected, but the table shows links with more than one owner. If that's what's really happened, it's way more serious than just something broken with no-mod permissions.

[Ophelie Ayres]

9 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Is it possible to see this thing in-world? I'm still baffled how Inspect Objects thinks it has only one object selected, but the table shows links with more than one owner. If that's what's really happened, it's way more serious than just something broken with no-mod permissions.

You can see here : http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Super Island/236/168/21

[Wulfie Reanimator]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

The pics are confusing to me. In some of them, the editor is showing "(multiple)" Owners, which means more than one separate object must be selected. Whatever was selected when those particular pictures were taken, not all that stuff was linked together. But maybe there was something else selected besides the car and grey cube when those were taken.

If a linkset contains objects from multiple creators and you have "edit linked" enabled, the "Creator" field in the edit window will just say "(multiple)". This is because when you turn on "edit linked", your selection changes from a single linkset (root info) to multiple selections (multiple owners).

But yeah, @Qie Niangao and I went to see the vehicles in-world. @Ophelie Ayres got a redelivery of the vehicle, which doesn't have this mystery prim, so it doesn't seem to be a scripting error which caused this prim to show up. The mystery prim doesn't contain anything, it's an empty prim with copy-only permission.

The vehicle really is copy-only at the object-level, so even the current owner shouldn't be able to link anything to the vehicle. Other vehicles from the same creator don't include this mystery prim either.

I'm thinking only two possible things;

1. The vehicle's scripting has an intentional "backdoor" in it with a permission request to CHANGE_LINKS, but supposedly the permission dialog never shows up so it's not trying to ask for non-auto-granted permissions, and llCreateLink requires both objects to have the same owner (with modify permission). It can't transfer ownership like this.
    
2. Something about object permissions is actually broken, which should be incredibly unlikely, but nothing's impossible...

A Jira ticket about this was created as https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SEC-6504 (which is a private ticket we can't see for security-reasons).

Edited April 3, 2023 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Ardy Lay]

 

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Edited April 3, 2023 by Ardy Lay

[Love Zhaoying]

Following..it will be interesting to see whether this is indeed a bug, or if something was special about the original object that allowed another person to link something to it!

[Ardy Lay]

I thought that maybe the monolith is seated.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Ardy Lay

[CarlaWetter]

The strange cube is indeed what remained from an unlucky sitter who ran into a bad crossing with the vehicle. It's a pretty rare case and, being an avid sailor, I've only actually observed this may be three times. Interesting enough, two of those instances happened in the last ten days or so.

Anyway, it's not some obscure hacking or some heavy handed circumvention of the permission system but 'only' a very rare phenomenon I've so far only seen happening on vehicles that lost their sitter(s) on some bad crossing.

In this special case you can do nothing to salvage the vehicle, no mod still applies to the linkset.

[Qie Niangao]

4 minutes ago, CarlaWetter said:

The strange cube is indeed what remained from an unlucky sitter who ran into a bad crossing with the vehicle.

I've never seen it, but it fits the fact I found so puzzling: how did objects with different owners come to be linked? I thought something akin to that happens when an avatar sits on a linkset owned by somebody else, but that's where I got stuck: How does an attachment (or something) "stick" to the sat upon object after the seated avatar is gone?

Just in passing, the OP pic here shows the subject prim apparently owned by the same owner as the rest of the vehicle (as best I can tell anyway), which didn't seem the case in earlier pics. In fact, like an avatar, the prim has the same name as its creator (observed on the field trip, obscured in the pic), which also fits the "what remains of an unlucky sitter" explanation.

[Love Zhaoying]

My "Spidey-senses" say this is something @animatswould be expert in! Animats, as our sim-crossing wizard, what is your thought on the issue described in this thread?

[animats]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

My "Spidey-senses" say this is something @animatswould be expert in! Animats, as our sim-crossing wizard, what is your thought on the issue described in this thread?

Oh, right! I've seen that twice in five years, and not in recent years.

That makes sense. You can't link prims of different ownership, but you can sit on something you don't own.

Then the position makes sense, too. That seems to be on the right side of the vehicle, so it's the passenger, unless this is a right-side-drive car. It's up in the air because that's normal for vehicle sits. If you put the avatar in the seat, their legs stick out the bottom and collide with the road. So it's customary that vehicle sit targets are positioned 1m above the seat, and vehicle sit animations position the pelvis 1m below where it belongs. This cancels out and makes things look right visually while keeping the legs clear of the ground.

I do mostly motorcycles, and don't test passenger cases much. There are some funny cases with vehicle passengers. If a passenger fails to cross regions, you can end up with an un-sittable seat, because the seat still has the "being sat on" property. Taking the vehicle into inventory and re-rezzing it will fix that. So will a sim restart. Those clear all sits and "being sat on" properties. So, if you need to fix your vehicle here, taking it into inventory and re-rezzing it will probably do that.

This area needs more attention from LL before mobile goes live. The mobile crowd will be far less forgiving of bugs than the classic SL crowd.

[Ophelie Ayres]

@animats yes I think that all this seems correct and seems the most probable I don't close the topic because if there are other ideas but I think that all goes in this direction and seems coherent even if it is not really *smile* I may be waiting for a return from the Jira which has been deposited. Thank you everyone to try helping ❤️

Ps: since then I have taken it back in my inventory and rezzed it here again: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Super Island/236/168/21

has not changed anything ...

Edited April 3, 2023 by Ophelie Ayres

[Maestro Linden]

Hi @Ophelie Ayres, I looked at the car and see the prim.  I also see that copy of the object already included the extra grey prim before you rezzed that copy of it in "Super Island" earlier today.  In order to investigate the issue properly, we need more information about the time and place the object was corrupted at, and any details about what may have triggered the corruption.  Could you please file a jira with information?

[Odaks]

I couldn't make any sense of the different owners either. It couldn't possibly be be linked, could it? But it was!

Many thanks to to everyone who had seen this before. It's good to see that there is some sort of explanation to account for it.

[Whirly Fizzle]

@Maestro Linden

It looks like this bug might be back: BUG-3547 - Sim Crossing Rezzes Objects Surrounding Individuals

That JIRA isn't public but here's an old forum discussion about it:

 

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

@Maestro Linden

It looks like this bug might be back: BUG-3547 - Sim Crossing Rezzes Objects Surrounding Individuals

That JIRA isn't public but here's an old forum discussion about it:

 

10 years ago, that's like yesterday!

[Rachel1206]

So the gray box is the bouncing box(?) of a former passenger - and we have evidence for the ghost in the machine!

@Whirly Fizzle, it is remarkable, you remember all those old bugs and problems. Thank you for your great insights and contributions.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Rachel1206
Spelling

[Aishagain]

I love the concept of a "bouncing box"!

[Ophelie Ayres]

@Maestro Linden Hello , i have open a new jira at my name here: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SEC-6506  hope help you a bit better. thank you so much .

[animats]

Now I remember where I saw this. Kelly Shergood (of Shergood Aviation) had this happen with one of her craft. It was a real prim that appeared. She was able to take it into inventory, and gave me a copy. It's a box prim. It's physical. It has size <0.45, 0.60, 1.85644>. It has color white and some grey texture 128x128. I still have it in inventory.

That's what was so weird. It's not a graphics artifact in the viewer. It's a copyable, editable prim.

[Love Zhaoying]

Does all this mean the bounding box is "real"?