New Feature: Scripted Agent Estate Access Discussion

[xDancingStarx]

44 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

All laws and regulations wherever in the world are broken/ignored by some, so you suggest to all dismiss them because the 100% is not reached?

You don't ban cars because people use them irresponsibly. I never said I dismissed privacy concerns, on the contrary. I said there have been measures mentioned that would be more suited than banning bots all together. I said that the level of privacy would not significantly increase by banning bots, because the bad actors who you want to be gone will stay. The amount of gain in privacy protection will be tiny, compared to what can be done without bots.

There is a huge data pool already by the local chat logging where and when people enter and leave. If I stay at "very hot xxx place", I have an exact log of who comes and leaves. So many people have these logs, without using any scripts at all. Where is the outcry about that kind of data being gathered and existing (actually existing, not being potentially collected by bad actors), being saved and stored outside of SL?

Edited April 2, 2023 by xDancingStarx

[xDancingStarx]

8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Not judging, but the arguments seem a little desperate.

It's hard to argue against that without any arguments given, sadly.

[Sid Nagy]

Yeah right.
I'm getting the strong impression that someone here is arguing for the sake of arguing at the moment.
I step out for the night. Even counting the stars in the freezing cold here tonight is more interesting.
Good night, sleep well everybody.

Edited April 2, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Love Zhaoying]

It honestly sounds like, "evil will always exist, so why fight the inevitable"?

[elleevelyn]

responding to the use cases raised

Bot Group Manager

groups are grid-wide. A group management bot doesn't have to be hosted on the Bellisseria estate

Bot Companion

there is nothing preventing us from creating companions now. We just can't deploy them in Bellisseria when the companion is registered as a scripted agent

which raise a question. When is a companion a bot requiring scripted agent status?

like if we log in our alt (regardless of viewer type, custom-made or otherwise) and sit them on our boat with us, is our alt a bot ? If we log in 4 alts to do group photography, are they bots ? I would argue not, as they are extensions of ourself for the purpose of our current logged in activity

Bot Decorator

to decorate a parcel in an automated way then we can script this already (rezzer box). We don't need a bot to do this for us. Need meaning need because there is no other way to do this. Need also not meaning I would like to or I want to

personally tho, I would love to have a machine intelligence-driven builder bot. At this time I would have to make it myself and if I did then Linden does allow me to deploy such a builder bot in SL. Just not in Bellisseria. Which is not all that much of an impost due to rez box

[xDancingStarx]

5 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I'm getting the strong impression that someone here is arguing for the sake of arguing at the moment.

Well I'm getting the strong impression that some people read "bots" and don't accept any arguments they don't like.

[xDancingStarx]

8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It honestly sounds like, "evil will always exist, so why fight the inevitable"?

I have already responded to that. "I said there have been measures mentioned that would be more suited than banning bots all together." As I said. You don't ban cars.

Edited April 2, 2023 by xDancingStarx

[belindacarson]

All I see is an ongoing whine by certain bot operators, who's profiles do not identify their bots.

 

Do their bots identify who controls them, what they are up to? naming no names ref "naming and shaming".

 

Personally, I'm mega happy that my landlord has turned on "no bots" on all their sims.  About an hour ago I was up to 56 bots abuse reported, 42 of whom are no longer in search.

 

And I'll continue to report any suspect avatars, including those who "want to map ban lines and orbs".

Edited April 2, 2023 by belindacarson

[Love Zhaoying]

13 minutes ago, elleevelyn said:

Bot Companion

there is nothing preventing us from creating companions now. We just can't deploy them in Bellisseria when the companion is registered as a scripted agent

which raise a question. When is a companion a bot requiring scripted agent status?

Idea: just attach an animesh figure, give it a chat AI, and call it your companion. No need for a separate account / login. Just like a prim baby. (Or "shoulder pet".) No more creepy than a prim baby, that's pretty good, right?

Edited April 2, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I know you're joking, but I can actually see someone suggesting just such a thing.

Maybe the best answer is just to leave SL to the bots, who can do everything much better than we can? 🙄

Once the bots drive off all the human users, that's what may happen. Wait, you weren't serious either? Is this a contest?

[Innula Zenovka]

16 minutes ago, elleevelyn said:

Bot Group Manager

groups are grid-wide. A group management bot doesn't have to be hosted on the Bellisseria estate

No, it doesn't have to be, but if someone wants to use a bot to moderate the group and has a house on Bellisseria, why should they have to buy or rent a parcel elsewhere simply to accommodate the bot, when it can live rent-free on Bellisseria?

[Love Zhaoying]

12 minutes ago, xDancingStarx said:

As I said. You don't ban cars.

Ironically, self-driving cars (i.e., AI, "bots") are supposed to solve the problems of driving safety.

[elleevelyn]

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Idea: just attach an animesh figure, give it a chat AI, and call it your companion. No need for a separate account / login. Just like a prim baby.

yes that works

also i have seen some relatively sophisticated companions enabled/driven by the main account user, using RLV

[Love Zhaoying]

Amazing! Despite my persona as an "Idiot Lion", I am capable of holding two apparently contradictory views at the same time. Go figure! Try THAT, bots!

[elleevelyn]

10 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

No, it doesn't have to be, but if someone wants to use a bot to moderate the group and has a house on Bellisseria, why should they have to buy or rent a parcel elsewhere simply to accommodate the bot, when it can live rent-free on Bellisseria?

yes. This is the thing raised earlier by Paul and others. The change means that we now have to pay more than our Premium cost to host our bot

i probably shouldn't but am start to imagine a new Premium benefit  for no extra charge. A car park for our one bot in the Great Linden Bot  Park. Like endless rows and rows of them all parked up waiting to be called into life

 

[Love Zhaoying]

20 minutes ago, elleevelyn said:

yes that works

also i have seen some relatively sophisticated companions enabled/driven by the main account user, using RLV

You've done a great job showing how different use cases for bots can still be solved in other ways.

Help me with this thought experiment: If different bot use cases can be solved other ways (primarily by scripting), and one of the key fears of bot "providers" is their loss of bot sales / income, shouldn't the bot "providers" be able to create sellable / L$-generating solutions without using bots (primarily by scripting)?

This is not a "trick question".

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, elleevelyn said:

A car park for our one bot in the Great Linden Bot  Park. Like endless rows and rows of them all parked up waiting to be called into life.

Rather like the rows of "baby strollers" / "prams" one sees waiting at theme park ride, shop, and restaurant entrances.

No offense is intended, but I rather favor the comparison of baby strollers / prams with bots. Perhaps it's the whole "prim baby RP" thing.

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, xDancingStarx said:

You can throw A LOT of money at it, and at the end there still will be bots. And I'll advocate heavily against this unreasonable and unhealthy demand. Especially when a possible even if hard to implement solution (or at least more reasonable approach) to concerns (effectively hiding avatars on parcels set to private) was already mentioned in this thread."

That only protects people who never leave.that protected parcel.  Are we.going to be sheltering in place again?  

[Love Zhaoying]

32 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

No, it doesn't have to be, but if someone wants to use a bot to moderate the group and has a house on Bellisseria, why should they have to buy or rent a parcel elsewhere simply to accommodate the bot, when it can live rent-free on Bellisseria?

Forgive my ignorance (or don't), but it's hard to imagine there being much functionality for a bot as a group moderator besides forwarding group messages to/from email, potentially responding to keywords, etc. 

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

That only protects people who never leave.that protected parcel.  Are we.going to be sheltering in place again?  

Duck and cover! Just like when I was a kid in the 70's, and like kids do now (albeit for different reasons). Bots can help with that? Cool!

ETA: Wait, or are we sheltering FROM the bots? I'm so confused.

Edited April 2, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[xDancingStarx]

17 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

That only protects people who never leave.that protected parcel.  Are we.going to be sheltering in place again?  

So let's say this is implemented, what else are we talking about then? A certain place you go to and your presence being logged? (which is reasonable!)

As I wrote earlier, funny enough this already happens! Your presence is already being logged, by many people. When you enter public place X, boom, you're logged, by many people. With timestamp. On people's computers. In text files. You have no control over that data. It's out there, and you can't keep people from doing anything with it. Again, in all seriousness. Where is the outcry?

As a bad actor, I can stand at any place and collect that data. If that viewer-included functionality wasn't available I can use a script, make it even easier. No way to prevent that.

You'll always have to live with this risk. And my argument is, that trying killing off bots doesn't reduce the general risk enough to justify throwing tons of money at implementing anti-bot technologies that never will sufficiently work and at the same time killing off legitimate bots and development and business.

Edited April 2, 2023 by xDancingStarx

[Ceka Cianci]

I'm curious, in Belliss are the waters also shut off that run through it and around it?

Or are they considered open waters and still open to scripted agents?

 

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, xDancingStarx said:

So let's say this is implemented, what else are we talking about then? A certain place you go to and your presence being logged? (which is reasonable!)

As I wrote earlier, funny enough this already happens! Your presence is already being logged, by many people. When you enter public place X, boom, you're logged, by many people. With timestamp. On people's computers. In text files. You have no control over that data. It's out there, and you can't keep people from doing anything with it. Again, in all seriousness. Where is the outcry?

As a bad actor, I can stand at any place and collect that data. If that viewer-included functionality wasn't available I can use a script, make it even easier. No way to prevent that.

You'll always have to live with this risk. And my argument is, that trying killing off bots doesn't reduce the general risk enough to justify throwing tons of money at implementing anti-bot technologies.

 

The point was it being published outside of S/L at a particular website.

[xDancingStarx]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

The point was it being published outside of S/L at a particular website.

Sorry but I'm not part of BB or alike and I was heavily advocating against this data being published. I've stated this in these forums.

[M Peccable]

23 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

You've done a great job showing how different use cases for bots can still be solved in other ways.

Help me with this thought experiment: If different bot use cases can be solved other ways (primarily by scripting), and one of the key fears of bot "providers" is their loss of bot sales / income, shouldn't the bot "providers" be able to create sellable / L$-generating solutions without using bots (primarily by scripting)?

This is not a "trick question".

There is some data that isn't available to scripts unless you are in the region. Ban lines are a good example.