PPLH pipe dream?

[Allyn Magic]

I know Premium Plus land or whatever is supposed to be in-the-works, but I spent hours finding the perfect spot to concierge request and I love my neighborhood (Prospect Ridge). I just need more prims/li! For residents like me, would it not be a good idea just to use some of the empty homes as "shells" and give the prims to the current premium plus residents? There are several empty homes at 170li around me. Those lots could be made into little natural areas so the residents have more li to use. (That's probably a question for LDPW). On another note, if anyone is looking for an empty cute neighborhood - check out Prospect Ridge!

[diamond Marchant]

Yes LL could have come up with a way to give P+ residents more LI months ago but they didn’t. It is frustrating. Unfortunately they are committed to a single P+ theme on 2048 sqm parcels as the only option. 

[AzureWaves]

I know they've explained countless times why we can't have more prims, but they could always bump up the regions to 30K and offer more prims to entice random residents to go P+. Not everyone can afford it or will. They will not ever 100% sell out double prims in a single region, so why not try it in batches on some regions? Residents have already proven that they like the current themes, to limit P+ to just this mysterious new theme is limiting the income potential.

Edited March 15, 2023 by AzureWaves

[Leora Greenwood]

4 hours ago, Allyn Magic said:

I know Premium Plus land or whatever is supposed to be in-the-works, but I spent hours finding the perfect spot to concierge request and I love my neighborhood (Prospect Ridge). I just need more prims/li! For residents like me, would it not be a good idea just to use some of the empty homes as "shells" and give the prims to the current premium plus residents? There are several empty homes at 170li around me. Those lots could be made into little natural areas so the residents have more li to use. (That's probably a question for LDPW). On another note, if anyone is looking for an empty cute neighborhood - check out Prospect Ridge!

I have been using my extra 1024 tier with PP+ to have a mainland waterlot and to allow my alts more hopping-around time so I can't really say that the PP+ has been wasted.

[diamond Marchant]

3 hours ago, Leora Greenwood said:

I have been using my extra 1024 tier with PP+ to have a mainland waterlot and to allow my alts more hopping-around time so I can't really say that the PP+ has been wasted

If a resident is only interested in the land aspects of membership, 3 Premium memberships (all contributing to a single land group) is a better value (yearly net stipend)  than one P+ membership, as the former has 3072 sqm of included tier rather than the 2048 sqm of P+. As I see it, P+ is only "worth it" if you value the non-land perks, such as unlimited texture uploads or picking your Linden Home.

7 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

they are committed to a single P+ theme on 2048 sqm parcels as the only option. 

I have always thought that the whole point of Bellisseria was to increase the number of paying residents by making it super easy to acquire an inworld home (and to protect the new home owner from annoying neighbors).  Because people have preferences, it is important to have variety with respect to home options.  It may be that the 2048 sqm parcel with a new (ranch?)  theme is simply another example of variety, similar to the expensive bottle of wine on a wine list that serves as an anchor to make the other wines more attractive.

Enhancements in Bellisserria that increase the value* of existing themes may NEVER happen, as these would not contribute to the goal of converting Basic residents to paying residents. Perhaps this is the real reason we will never see options like a houseboat on a 2048 parcel. Linden Lab will always say, if you want that, make it yourself on mainland.

* The Traditionals did get open floorplans and the Houseboats did get additional options, but personally, I have not used these enhancements and assign them minimal value. You may love these additions, which is great.

Edited March 15, 2023 by diamond Marchant
value explained

[DevinKnights84]

1 hour ago, diamond Marchant said:

I have always thought that the whole point of Bellisseria was to increase the number of paying residents by making it super easy to acquire an inworld home

the point of bellisseria is it's a place to start out for premium residents, so the premium plus homes will be starter homes for premium plus residents. they've said before, they never meant for them to be permanent homes to replace mainland. they're a stepping stone for inexperienced/new premium residents.

[Frigga Freidman]

1 hour ago, DevinKnights84 said:

the point of bellisseria is it's a place to start out for premium residents, so the premium plus homes will be starter homes for premium plus residents. they've said before, they never meant for them to be permanent homes to replace mainland. they're a stepping stone for inexperienced/new premium residents.

I think the notion that they're 'starter' homes died a death long ago. I've been here since 2007 and have 5 Bellisserian houses - in each of those 5 regions at least a third of the homes have been claimed by accounts that are 10 or more years old. (Yeah, I'm a data nerd, and did a mini census about a year ago as I was surprised at the scant appearance of newbie owners.) It's more than likely that another third belong to alts of residents who've been in SL for yonks. (<- Brit slang) There are clearly a lot of people who don't consider Linden homes a stepping stone to Mainland.

EDIT: Just went back to my Victorian parcel - 17 houses in the region, and these are the ages of the parcel owners (Years/Months):

1/9 (my alt)

2/11

3/4

4/6

6/9

10/4

12/1

12/4

12/5

12/10

12/11

13/0

13/1

13/3

13/10

15/4

17/2

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Frigga Freidman
data nerd doing what a data nerd does

[Leora Greenwood]

11 minutes ago, Frigga Freidman said:

I think the notion that they're 'starter' homes died a death long ago. I've been here since 2007 and have 5 Bellisserian houses - in each of those 5 regions at least a third of the homes have been claimed by accounts that are 10 or more years old. (Yeah, I'm a data nerd, and did a mini census about a year ago as I was surprised at the scant appearance of newbie owners.) It's more than likely that another third belong to alts of residents who've been in SL for yonks. (<- Brit slang) There are clearly a lot of people who don't consider Linden homes a stepping stone to Mainland.

Yes and yes; you could be my twin, Frigga!!  I love Bellisseria for the loveliness of the home styles and the gorgeous landscaping and will probably always have a Belli parcel or several.  The only thing that compares in my mind are the private estates where the overall appearance and theme can be controlled to avoid the randomness and ugliness of too much of mainland.  Aside from encouraging private themed estates on mainland regions, I cannot see a solution for mainland.

[AzureWaves]

I would never step from Bellisseria to mainland. The covenant is what makes Bellisseria so attractive!

[Nika Talaj]

1 hour ago, DevinKnights84 said:

the point of bellisseria is it's a place to start out for premium residents

Yes, that is indeed ... or at least was ... LL's rationale for Belli.  But I think of Belli as assisted living for SL oldbies 👩‍🦽.  I sometimes wonder how many LL employees expected that to happen. 

Belli also attracts oldbies because it has an endless air of novelty, as the moles create new themes.   That's an important differentiator between private estates (which, if they're themed, stick to that theme), and Belli.

@Patch Linden, I wish there were a Belli subcontinent that, from the beginning, is expected to be wiped clean for a new theme every 2 years or so.   Maybe leave the terraforming constant, maybe not.  It would be great fun to be allowed to keep your parcel between theme incarnations.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Nika Talaj

[Frigga Freidman]

12 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

Yes, that is indeed ... or at least was ... LL's rationale for Belli.  But I think of Belli as assisted living for SL oldbies 👩‍🦽. 

😂

[benchthis]

Nothing wrong living in a place that is peaceful, secure, and official; with above average performance. I pitty the fool/s whom would attempt to harass, troll, or harm anyone living or visiting this area, because they would have to deal with Patch and the Moles

It's great that more experienced users are living there. I can't recall any rude neighbors ever, only nice and helpful neighbors.

Can't have all this goodness without a slight rant for balance: Only thing I miss about the process was seeing a few regions at a time being placed out blank and sculpted before our eyes so we could see what was there each day with changes. When traditionals were introduce and new regions would connect the hype was unreal. If they started doing that with the PP+ just give a few regions and let us watch and wonder. SSP topic does this thankfully, right now so many things are going on it's hard to follow and fully appreciate the progress. If they moved their prep areas to the areas of bellisseria and unlocked a few of them so we can nose around that would draw hype and users to the world imo. I would log in to see the progress. You get a better appreciation of the work and detail when we see a blank region become something more. 

Even if PP+ starts as a simple park or garden we can gather and have it build around us that would give the area that spark back. vs releasing the PP+ hype for a week and gone. Anyone who witnessed the birth of bellisseria knows what the hype looked like for long time. It was magic, and then large areas, mostly finished started popping up, prefab areas, similar patters. It's okay to do that but if they can tap into something would be better than nothing. This concludes the rant; omy goodness. 

[diamond Marchant]

19 hours ago, Frigga Freidman said:

I think the notion that they're 'starter' homes died a death long ago. I've been here since 2007 and have 5 Bellisserian houses - in each of those 5 regions at least a third of the homes have been claimed by accounts that are 10 or more years old.

This is a nice analysis, thank you. Getting to the bottom of why this is the case would be interesting. Given that Second Life  doesn't "amount to a hill of beans in this crazy [virtual] world", it may be that the incoming pipeline of noobs wanting to make the leap to land ownership is small. And the number of long-time residents fed up with mainland annoyances is large. So the scales are tipped.

[DevinKnights84]

On 3/15/2023 at 3:16 PM, Frigga Freidman said:

There are clearly a lot of people who don't consider Linden homes a stepping stone to Mainland.

it doesn't matter what residents think they were meant for, what they use them for or what age they are when they get their home. it's a fact that the lindens said they are meant to be starter homes for new residents.

[AzureWaves]

24 minutes ago, DevinKnights84 said:

it doesn't matter what residents think they were meant for, what they use them for or what age they are when they get their home. it's a fact that the lindens said they are meant to be starter homes for new residents.

It actually matters a lot what the (paying customers) residents think - and they clearly do not think this is a Starter home, and neither does Linden Lab. LL offering 2048 soon could also open the gateways to offering commercial plots, bigger residential homes, and more. Money talks.

[Patch Linden]

On 3/15/2023 at 6:45 AM, diamond Marchant said:

Yes LL could have come up with a way to give P+ residents more LI months ago but they didn’t. It is frustrating. Unfortunately they are committed to a single P+ theme on 2048 sqm parcels as the only option. 

I considered it, spent a lot of time analyzing the impact it would have on the greater land economy, which is something I have to account for in my wide purview of the entire grid.  We could flip a switch tomorrow and bring it out, but we're not going to because it will cause economic harm and destabilization in areas that I have to think about.

 

On 3/15/2023 at 1:09 PM, diamond Marchant said:

I have always thought that the whole point of Bellisseria was to increase the number of paying residents by making it super easy to acquire an inworld home (and to protect the new home owner from annoying neighbors).  Because people have preferences, it is important to have variety with respect to home options.  It may be that the 2048 sqm parcel with a new (ranch?)  theme is simply another example of variety, similar to the expensive bottle of wine on a wine list that serves as an anchor to make the other wines more attractive.

Enhancements in Bellisserria that increase the value* of existing themes may NEVER happen, as these would not contribute to the goal of converting Basic residents to paying residents. Perhaps this is the real reason we will never see options like a houseboat on a 2048 parcel. Linden Lab will always say, if you want that, make it yourself on mainland.

* The Traditionals did get open floorplans and the Houseboats did get additional options, but personally, I have not used these enhancements and assign them minimal value. You may love these additions, which is great.

Maybe the new theme is more like 2 buck chuck, and not an expensive bottle of wine.  Lets not set everyone's expectations a mile high in the sky.  Like every other theme, it will not resonate with everyone, there will be negativity towards it and most will forget about all the features soon enough, including the ones we've added recently like new community centers and floor plans to the existing themes with even more coming.   I've been intentionally quiet for a reason on a lot of things Linden Home related and it comes from the negativity and lack of constructive dialog in these forums and other places.   

[Patch Linden]

1 hour ago, DevinKnights84 said:

it doesn't matter what residents think they were meant for, what they use them for or what age they are when they get their home. it's a fact that the lindens said they are meant to be starter homes for new residents.

This is still true and proven in what we track.  The lifecycle of a new (premium) user in large, significant percentages start with a Linden Home, outgrow it and want more.  They move on into the larger land ecosystem to mainland, private estates/rentals.

[Love Zhaoying]

Is not "pipe dream", is in the "pipeline"!!  Linden Lab DELIVERS!

[Evangeline Arcadia]

18 minutes ago, Patch Linden said:

  I've been intentionally quiet for a reason on a lot of things Linden Home related and it comes from the negativity and lack of constructive dialog in these forums and other places.   

It's a shame that LL folk should feel that way. I'm sure there are plenty of users who read (but maybe don't post in) the forums, or who don't even look at the forums, who like and appreciate what has been done.

[Frigga Freidman]

2 hours ago, DevinKnights84 said:

it doesn't matter what residents think they were meant for, what they use them for or what age they are when they get their home. it's a fact that the lindens said they are meant to be starter homes for new residents.

I’ve always viewed that line about their being starter homes as a hedge against unreasonable demands and complaints. A nicer variant of “if you don’t care for it, you can build your own elsewhere”. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, Patch Linden said:

the negativity and lack of constructive dialog in these forums and other places. 

Reminds me of the early days of Bellisseria when so many people were whining because they could get what they wanted immediately.  

In many ways we live in an 'instant gratification' and 'me, me, me' society - and that shows itself here quite often.

[Nika Talaj]

6 hours ago, Patch Linden said:

I've been intentionally quiet for a reason on a lot of things Linden Home related and it comes from the negativity and lack of constructive dialog in these forums and other places.   

When you build things like medical equipment, you come to be grateful for every critique offered by the busy clinicians whom you persuade to try out your new products.  After all, even a critique that seems bizarre may turn out to save a life.

It IS a shame that LL employees over the years have very often experienced critiques negatively.  Consider, however, that ideas and recommendations offered here are given by forum participants who manifestly love LL's product, most of us having spent years living in it. 

So it is equally a shame when critiques are not accepted in the spirit in which they are offered.  Part of that may be due to the medium - forums are a bit like txt interchanges, inflection is lost.  And what takes place between moles/Lindens and forumites is generally not true dialog -- there is rarely actual back-and-forth discussion.  Generally neither side has time for it!  

Apologies if my speech has seemed rude or demanding.  It is only because I care ... undoubtedly too much.

*walks away pondering*

[benchthis]

4 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Reminds me of the early days of Bellisseria when so many people were whining because they could get what they wanted immediately.  

In many ways we live in an 'instant gratification' and 'me, me, me' society - and that shows itself here quite often.

Personally speaking, when the new Linden Homes came out. I felt like a junkie needing a home fix. The holidays were approaching, nobody could get a house. I had been on the computer non stop for 7 days straight refreshing refreshing, I think it was 7 could have been 14, alls I can remember I started jonesing around after new hampsterdam was built. New regions would pop up and still could not get a house. I did not care which theme, i'd would have taken a 512 camper. I think it was only traditionals and boats back then. My first home was a boat on dockside. I had a back view of the sea. Very cool friendly neighbor. I think I was in shock for awhile, I could not believe I got to open the door, i'll never forget opening my first linden home door. My first Linden 2.0 door. When I opened my first Linden Home 1.0 door it was magical too, birds chirping, I would look out the window and see houses and listen to the birds, it was meadowbrook. I ended up abandoning the original home and I built a little sand castle around me and I would (at the time I thought) I would hide at ivory tower near the sand bucket and build inside my tiny castle covering my avatar up. I lived there for a while and then one day I popped up the map and saw something odd but was not allowed to teleport, fast forward to sl16b and that's when I found out about the new linden homes and the reveal. It made me want to learn how to build mesh. While I was going crazy on the bench across the smokey region by the duel water rez areas hoping I would get a house, I over heard local chat talking about blender, I had never heard of that 3D modeling program before and it's free, the only downside was learning it, but my life up to that point was learning everything in the ivory tower. I knew I needed to learn the basics before learning another 3D program because I did not know what xyz was to save my life before I started here.  

When new people arrive and there are no premium plus homes at least they won't have to go through that withdrawal. Seeing people decorate for the holidays being virtually linden homeless. I would be okay with PP having 2 Linden Homes and getting to pick where they are. That would be a good back up option. Oh can't get the larger but I can get 2 of the others and that would be pretty fun. I did not like toggling multiple accounts when I had few annual premiums going. Maybe only certain regions can have 2 with the same theme.

Back then no body was like (at least in world, had not discovered the forums then luckly (would have been perma banned for sure)). What was I talking about? oh yah those early days were tough. Oh back then no body was talking about the option to use the 1024 for mainland usage. By that time though I had my fill of mainland and needed Bellisseria badly. For new users when they hear that option you can have 1 Linden home and use the rest for mainland they are going to be like?? where's my big house I don't want mainland. That's how I felt as a non newbie too. 

I wana hear stories about when the Linden V1.0 were introduced. (must stay on topic). Bet those were crazy times too. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by benchthis
more rambling

[benchthis]

5 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

When you build things like medical equipment, you come to be grateful for every critique offered by the busy clinicians whom you persuade to try out your new products.  After all, even a critique that seems bizarre may turn out to save a life.

It IS a shame that LL employees over the years have very often experienced critiques negatively.  Consider, however, that ideas and recommendations offered here are given by forum participants who manifestly love LL's product, most of us having spent years living in it. 

So it is equally a shame when critiques are not accepted in the spirit in which they are offered.  Part of that may be due to the medium - forums are a bit like txt interchanges, inflection is lost.  And what takes place between moles/Lindens and forumites is generally not true dialog -- there is rarely actual back-and-forth discussion.  Generally neither side has time for it!  

Apologies if my speech has seemed rude or demanding.  It is only because I care ... undoubtedly too much.

*walks away pondering*

I don't think anyone was ready for the modern reaction. I loved them was not expecting the amount of critique: the doors are too blah, the buildings too big, the buildings too small, there's no door here, there needs to be a window here and there and the colors and textures are all wrong and the landscaping is a nightmare and the lighting is bad, there's a gap did you see the gap, is the gap fixed #gap, did you all see the gap, IS everyone aware of the gap. Even though we were fully made aware they are still being worked on. 

It was unrelenting, the stairs are wrong, trim is wrong. I've experienced every reveal and never seen that intense before. So not only does the designer of the homes have to factor every absolute way each design can be modified and be useful to every type of resident they have to absorb the feedback we give them. Some comments were mean. I'm pretty sure they heard everyone of them loud and clear. 

Like you said we love this place so much and the content, we get carried away. 

When I first started SL I did not have any concept of how things were created, I thought content in games just apparently created itself.

Art is dangerous. 

[Marianne Little]

Now when I see back, I feel guilty about how negative I was. And I liked the Newbrooke houses much better when I tried them.

I think it was because I had waited for a modern theme so long. And it had been releases I absolutely didn't like before that. But I thought; "They can't make houses I like in every release. But I will love modern houses with big windows!"

So I was floating in to the demo, with butterflies around me and stars in my eyes. It would have been hard to meet my dream. And the more I saw, the more I found to dislike. It is like an avalanche, it starts with a tiny snowball and grows. I think the forum had many others who had waited for modern houses a long time, and we said many negative things.

The Newbrooke regions built now, is using different trees and also plants and rocks. I think that is a big improvement. The demo region landscaping looked a bit bleak.

I was disappointed when it was no new Traditionals.Open floorplans and color walls was okay, but we knew they were coming. The new houseboats, that was a great thing. I lurked back into Premium to try a new boat. So it is score for LL, I have both a Premium boat and the place I rent. LL got my Premium fee, and I did not give up any other land for it.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Marianne Little