Banning bots from the grid?

[EliseAnne85]

10 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

the subject of bots is an important one

It is.  Identifiable bots may be the new happy medium if our great god-mode LL can figure out how because the worst part is the gaming and cheating of Second Life residents.  I've been fishing in SL.  It's a game for residents, not an army of cheating bots.  

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, xDancingStarx said:

Then please enlighten us, why do they want bots banned from SL, so we don't risk driving your thread off topic? We can't really answer your question if we don't even know the initial issue that prompted your question. And it possibly can't be traffic gaming, since everyone and their dog can just start up 5 text viewers and let them idle.

Most of the first few pages are covering that, specifically.  Please Sir or Madam, to read them so we do not rehash the same information again and again and again?

[Arielle Popstar]

Bottom line for me is that when bots are weaponized to a point that they negatively affect the virtual lives of the human avatars, they have become a danger to the populace. Convincing their creators to back off of using them to that degree has been unfruitful so the only recourse is to ban that sort of functionality that endangers the world, virtual or otherwise.

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, Paul Hexem said:

Would group management suffer?

It would need to be done by a human and it would result in frustration with LL's lack of group management tooling .. and lord knows groups could do with some love at some point this decade. Bots handling it has allowed LL to ignore the shoddy mess that groups are and how they are a poor fit for purpose.

Just now, Paul Hexem said:

Would it mean more jobs for residents doing those things? Would LL step up and give us decent LSL functions to replace bots? Can SL operate without bots, or are they too important?

SL has proven it can !

There was a week not so long ago when LL broke logins for all none graphical clients. 

[Paul Hexem]

4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It would need to be done by a human and it would result in frustration with LL's lack of group management tooling .. and lord knows groups could do with some love at some point this decade. Bots handling it has allowed LL to ignore the shoddy mess that groups are and how they are a poor fit for purpose.

SL has proven it can !

There was a week not so long ago when LL broke logins for all none graphical clients. 

To be fair, a few days offline is vastly different than shutting them down completely.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

SL has proven it can !

SL should have a motto along the lines of, "We am smart, and you can to!"

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Bottom line for me is that when bots are weaponized to a point that they negatively affect the virtual lives of the human avatars, they have become a danger to the populace. Convincing their creators to back off of using them to that degree has been unfruitful so the only recourse is to ban that sort of functionality that endangers the world, virtual or otherwise.

The only way to combat the sweeping actions of SL bot hordes is with more bots.

It can only end in an arms race that will impact the wider SL.

We have seen how this pans out already with the adult scene in SL. There was a time when the adult continent was thriving and occupied by actual people and real community. Then came the AFK bot places, and aside from the big clubs that managed to hold out, it's now mostly all gone.

[Paul Hexem]

3 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The only way to combat the sweeping actions of SL bot hordes is with more bots.

It can only end in an arms race that will impact the wider SL.

We have seen how this pans out already with the adult scene in SL. There was a time when the adult continent was thriving and occupied by actual people and real community. Then came the AFK bot places, and aside from the big clubs that managed to hold out, it's now mostly all gone.

Bots have definitely contributed to the mess of land we see on the mainland and especially Zindra. Buying everything up and massively inflating the price is something we've all complained about in the past, which bots enabled.

[Love Zhaoying]

A simple proposal:

Bots are innocent.

Bots are also unable to prove their age.

Bots should be relegated (constrained) to the equivalent of the Teen Grid, to prevent corrupting their innocence.

I suppose in today's Second Life, this means Banning Bots from Mature and Adult Regions.

Bot Purveyors are some kind of cruel, forcing poor, innocent Bots into Adult locations and situations.

I am sorry, but Bots are just too young and innocent for Adult Second Life.

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Rednight Hand]

All I see this going over and over

 

[xDancingStarx]

15 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

People have lots of issues with bots, for lots of reasons. And yes, people running multiple idle clients is one of them. Most MMO's kick you if you're idle for too long, speaking of which.

Running multiple clients has nothing to do with bots. If I want to idle for 5 hours on my land on Firestorm then I'm not a bot. If I want to idle for 5 hours on my land on Radegast then I'm not a bot. A bot performs actions without a person's input. That's what a bot is.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Rednight Hand said:

All I see this going over and over

 

I saw exactly 1 post - by Coffee Pancake, that highlight the idea of Bots taking Jobs.

I agree with that post.

I see more "Real Life" complaints - in my "Real Life" Job even - about Bots taking people's jobs.  

But not in this thread. 

So you, Sir or Madam, are exaggerating.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Paul Hexem said:

To be fair, a few days offline is vastly different than shutting them down completely.

A fair compromise would be that bots were required to hold some kind of premium membership as a way to counter escalation and excess.

 

2 minutes ago, Rednight Hand said:

All I see this going over and over

Welcome to the forums !

So many brand new people passionate about this one subject !!

[animats]

1 minute ago, Paul Hexem said:

Bots have definitely contributed to the mess of land we see on the mainland and especially Zindra. Buying everything up and massively inflating the price is something we've all complained about in the past, which bots enabled.

Bots are a problem in Zindra.  Large landlords keeping prices high on vacant land are a problem in Zindra. But the two problems seem to be unrelated. On most days, about 200 bots are stuck at the various Safe Hubs in Zindra and Horizons. They're not acting as fake traffic or gathering data. They're just lost, dumped in a safe hub by a sim restart and too dumb to find their way home.

[Paul Hexem]

1 minute ago, xDancingStarx said:

Running multiple clients has nothing to do with bots. If I want to idle for 5 hours on my land on Firestorm then I'm not a bot. If I want to idle for 5 hours on my land on Radegast then I'm not a bot. A bot performs actions without a person's input. That's what a bot is.

Which is part of the "problem"- LL has made no distinction or rules and allowed bots and regular clients/viewers to intermingle, which has contributed to the confusion.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

So many brand new people passionate about this one subject !!

Our passions reflect our lives, our lives, and in this case, our fears!

Without passion, life is bland.

This is but one reason I support freeing the bots.  How can they live a full, passionate life under the influence of these Bot-slavers?

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Bots add nothing of value to a virtual space, ever

You never had opportunity to use a Xelagot bot. I have used them and they were nothing more than a tool. This is the kind of bot I have always wanted to see developed for use in SL but no one has ever attempted it.

Who wouldn't want to be able to use a bot to terraform whole estates? That's one of the myriad of things a Xelagot could do. By the time Xelagots had become pretty much an all in one, I was long gone so I never used them. The ones I did use were capable of terraforming and all kinds of useful things for world (region in SL) building and security and object placement. I could chat with people via the bot if I couldn't login at the time, which led to lots of giggles when people finally realized the responses they were getting weren't scripted but was a real person at the keyboard. lol

http://www.imatowns.com/xelagot/xelagot_x1.html

Edit: The Xelagots are the only thing I miss about AW. lol

Edited January 22, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, animats said:

On most days, about 200 bots are stuck at the various Safe Hubs in Zindra and Horizons. They're not acting as fake traffic or gathering data. They're just lost, dumped in a safe hub by a sim restart and too dumb to find their way home.

I propose several humane actions:

- Euthanasia for "lost Bots".

- Rules concerning the unregulated Bot reproduction. Irresponsible Bot breeding is cruel. Have your Bot Spayed or Neutered today!

[Bree Giffen]

Can bots harvest my friends list? Or that little place in a resident’s profile where you can write about them? 

SL must transfer data between clients and servers and that data can be harvested unless everything is encrypted. Do you really want your p**** encrypted?

[Dorientje Woller]

More serious question is: As Linden Labs has already experienced malicious behavior from such bots, why let it possible happen again?

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, Bree Giffen said:

Can bots harvest my friends list?

They can work out a persons social graph based on proximity, especially once they have identified the parcel of land most associated with an avatar (ie .. their home). It will probably be better than your actual friends list which is polluted by dormant accounts and acquaintances.

 

 

[Paul Hexem]

4 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said:

More serious question is: As Linden Labs has already experienced malicious behavior from such bots, why let it possible happen again?

For the very reasons we're discussing in this thread; all the utilities they provide.

Question is, does it outweigh the harm they do?

[Rednight Hand]

8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I saw exactly 1 post - by Coffee Pancake, that highlight the idea of Bots taking Jobs.

I agree with that post.

I see more "Real Life" complaints - in my "Real Life" Job even - about Bots taking people's jobs.  

But not in this thread. 

So you, Sir or Madam, are exaggerating.

How am I exaggerating? that's all the posts that have been rounding to just complaining about bots then going to jobs being taken  over by bots in SL.  I've been around long enough to see tons of crap in SL and in the forums that its not even worth my time to complain other than just enjoy myself. Yeah I've seen the BBs here and there when visiting places, hanging with friends or whatever. Do I care, no. Do I care what they see me on with or with whom,  No. I'm enough of an adult to know I agreed to whatever SL experience I get since the day I joined it and to this day I'll continue enjoying being an adult on there without a care who's spying or whatever.

[Paul Hexem]

14 minutes ago, animats said:

Bots are a problem in Zindra.  Large landlords keeping prices high on vacant land are a problem in Zindra. But the two problems seem to be unrelated.

I'm not so sure. We know there are bots that will buy up mainland for sale, if the price is really good.

[Ezbeharra]

1 minute ago, Rednight Hand said:

How am I exaggerating? that's all the posts that have been rounding to just complaining about bots then going to jobs being taken  over by bots in SL.  I've been around long enough to see tons of crap in SL and in the forums that its not even worth my time to complain other than just enjoy myself. Yeah I've seen the BBs here and there when visiting places, hanging with friends or whatever. Do I care, no. Do I care what they see me on with or with whom,  No. I'm enough of an adult to know I agreed to whatever SL experience I get since the day I joined it and to this day I'll continue enjoying being an adult on there without a care who's spying or whatever.

Do you care if they provide updated in-world location data for your avatar to anyone who looks at their website? Oh wait, you're probably a man so you probably don't know why that might be a problem for some people.