Sorry. This is not OK. B bots profile scraping.

[belindacarson]

34 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

So, you're saying that they've given us all the information we need to have a lawyer contact them?

if you're that paranoid, that you need a lawyer, that's your choice 😀

 

Personally, I don't see what all the hubbub is about.

[Theresa Tennyson]

Just now, belindacarson said:

if you're that paranoid, that you need a lawyer, that's your choice 😀

 

Personally, I don't see what all the hubbub is about.

Then I ask again - given that you've said they've "identified" themselves, have they given us this information? Or is their "identification" meaningless?

[Lewis Luminos]

4 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Bots usually collect data in order to sell us more stuff.  That is probably why it's interested in our PICKS.  Bots have no purpose but to sell us stuff.  Still, it's a bit unnerving as I did not read the other thread.  It was a tldr.

Groups would be a much better indication of shopping preferences than Picks are. Most people seldom use Picks for anything that could be marketed.

Given that the purpose of the B's website seems to be "make it easier for users to find active places",  I'm wondering if the marketing angle behind the Bs is to drive traffic towards certain clubs and venues. 

[Dorientje Woller]

1 hour ago, belindacarson said:

if you're that paranoid, that you need a lawyer, that's your choice 😀

 

Personally, I don't see what all the hubbub is about.

You know what is disturbing, that this site where they publish our profiles has no Data Protection Policy, nor a ROC aka you don't know what's been done with the data aka sold to other, maybe malicious sites/persons, nor do you exactly know what other data has been collect. Now, put your verbal hand in the fire if you can say with your hand on your heart that you are 100 % sure that this site is legit transparent about what they collect of data and that you are 100 % sure of what they do with that data.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Dorientje Woller

[EliseAnne85]

6 minutes ago, Lewis Luminos said:

Groups would be a much better indication of shopping preferences than Picks are. Most people seldom use Picks for anything that could be marketed.

Given that the purpose of the B's website seems to be "make it easier for users to find active places",  I'm wondering if the marketing angle behind the Bs is to drive traffic towards certain clubs and venues. 

I was wondering why it doesn't go after groups too.  I don't know.  But, I think it's main purpose is to make money somehow.

Edited January 21, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Dorientje Woller]

Just now, EliseAnne85 said:

I was wondering why it doesn't go after groups too.  I don't know.  

Well, you can't say with 100 % that they didn't scraped that data.

[belindacarson]

2 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said:

You know what is disturbing, that this site where they publish our profiles has no Data Protection Policy, nor a ROC aka you don't know what's been done with the data aka sold to other, maybe malicious sites/persons, nor do you exactly know what other data has been collect. Now, put your verbal hand in the fire if you can say with your hand on your heart that you are 100 % sure that this site is legit transparent about what they collect of data and that you are 100 % of what they do with that data.

But why are you bothered, when the data collected/displayed, is fully publically accessible inworld anyway?

 

A Data Protection Policy would only be needed for RL info harvesting, which this isn't.

 

if you're within the EU, try getting this lawyer you need, to examine it for GDPR infringements.  I daresay all they'd do is scratch their heads "this is publiccally viewable info".

[EliseAnne85]

2 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said:

Well, you can't say with 100 % that they didn't scraped that data.

No, no I can't. 

Anyhow, about the bots.  This has to be a very expensive system.  Therefore, the logical conclusion is it's purpose is to make money...somehow...?

[Lewis Luminos]

9 minutes ago, belindacarson said:

if you're within the EU, try getting this lawyer you need, to examine it for GDPR infringements.  I daresay all they'd do is scratch their heads "this is publiccally viewable info".

It's not, though.  SL legacy profiles are not public, they're only viewable to other SL residents. You need to have an account and be logged in to see them. That's not what "public" means. Hence why the Bs need bots to do this thing in the first place.

There are web profiles but they aren't viewable to non-residents either. To a non-logged-in user, the web profile shows only name, payment-on-file status and rez date.

That said, EU GDPR regulations concern themselves only with RL identifiable data; ie, somethng that can identify you as an individual, as opposed to every other individual in the world. So, nothing in a SL profile would fall into that category (unless you're dumb enough to type your RL name and address in there). Even if you've stated in your profile what country or town you live in, in RL, that's not enough to be counted as personally identifiable data.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Lewis Luminos

[Dorientje Woller]

14 minutes ago, Lewis Luminos said:

That said, EU GDPR regulations concern themselves only with RL identifiable data; ie, somethng that can identify you as an individual, as opposed to every other individual in the world. So, nothing in a SL profile would fall into that category (unless you're dumb enough to type your RL name and address in there). Even if you've stated in your profile what country or town you live in, in RL, that's not enough to be counted as personally identifiable data.

The problem with this, as said before, you don't know with 100 % what other data has been, say it as it is, mined which they aren't open about it, nor do you know what they do with that kind of data.

[xDancingStarx]

3 hours ago, Jessicatz Fairymeadow said:

Even simpler, you understand that a bot has the same kind of information that a regular viewer has about you once it sees you, right?

This cannot be the argument. Because in that case it would be fine to publish on a website where EVERYONE was at what time and with whom. Since that information is known to any regular viewer that sees you.

[Innula Zenovka]

15 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said:

The problem with this, as said before, you don't know with 100 % what other data has been, say it as it is, mined which they aren't open about it, nor do you know what they do with that kind of data.

However, since the set of things we don't know with 100% certainty is infinite in its scope that's not really a very useful observation.

Personally, I find not worrying about things unless I have reasonable grounds to suspect they may be the case is a far better way of proceeding. 

[Sid Nagy]

15 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Personally, I find not worrying about things unless I have reasonable grounds to suspect they may be the case is a far better way of proceeding. 

Isn't 'better safe than sorry' a popular English proverb?

This and the other now locked B thread at least show that LL is somewhat nonchalant in granting data mining, whether it is publicly viewable or not. They could easily have a more protective stance about our data availability outside SL IMHO.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Randy Pole]

47 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said:

The problem with this, as said before, you don't know with 100 % what other data has been, say it as it is, mined which they aren't open about it, nor do you know what they do with that kind of data.

What other data can there possibly be? They only have access to that which is in your profile. They cannot access any of the information about your account data on the website.

People need to step back a bit and be a bit less dare I say - paranoid.

[Ezbeharra]

Well, privacy concerns aside, their methodology for determining active regions is terrible. I can't figure out why they're even scraping profile data, since their metric for region activity is the change in raw avatar count.

[Dorientje Woller]

7 minutes ago, Randy Pole said:

What other data can there possibly be? They only have access to that which is in your profile. They cannot access any of the information about your account data on the website.

People need to step back a bit and be a bit less dare I say - paranoid.

Hey, let's hope that the next post on this forum isn't: "B.Bot has stolen my linden balance". Be warned, you won't see any pitty then from me. As said above, better safe then sorry.

[xDancingStarx]

40 minutes ago, Randy Pole said:

What other data can there possibly be? They only have access to that which is in your profile.[...]

People need to step back a bit and be a bit less dare I say - paranoid.

What other data can there possibly be? Honestly?

Okay, let's talk about it. This is an army of bots scraping SL, this is not simply about scraping profiles.

A bot army scraping every land parcel, which they're obviously doing since they have an abandoned land section. Do you believe they only save the abandoned land in their database? Do you know what effort it would be to add the "parcel owner" to that data? Since we're talking about "what other data can there possibly be", if Linden were OK with not only scraping but most importantly publishing data like that (and I remind that some people make the argument that it's legal since it can be discovered by a regular viewer), it would be just fine to list all of your parcels on that website and provide an SLURL for everyone who wants to visit you. This has nothing to do with "paranoid", the effort would be non existent.

Do you know what effort it would be to save the location where their bots have spotted you in SL? None, no effort. So you'd be fine with that location published on a website? Since "what other data can there possibly be"?

I don't think that I need to go on.

 

In general, there is a difference between discovering data as a single user using a regular viewer and an army of bots that aggregates and publishes data to have it readily available at your fingertips.

Edited January 21, 2023 by xDancingStarx

[Quistess Alpha]

6 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Now check me out on the B name we cant mention's avatar index.

Maybe it changed recently or I'm bad at using the site, but I can't find you specifically on said site.

Nor myself, but yes my main alt, who had one of the bots pop in right next to her in a 192 sqm skybox a few months ago.

[Innula Zenovka]

19 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Isn't 'better safe than sorry' a popular English proverb?

This and the other now locked B thread at least show that LL is somewhat nonchalant in granting data mining, whether it is publicly viewable or not. They could easily have a more protective stance about our data availability outside SL IMHO.

What do you mean by "data mining" in this context?   Strictly speaking, it refers to examining large datasets in the hope of discovering patterns of behaviour, though I think it's frequently also used to refer to collecting the data, too, often by using using cookies and by granting click-though permissions when we install apps on our smartphones.  

There's no suggestion these bots are doing anything of the sort, as least as far as I know, and neither is it possible to do it with LSL.   So I think maybe you mean something different by the phrase.

[EliseAnne85]

One thing weird about bots is a human has to check the box I AM NOT A BOT.  That is just weird to do that in the first place.  It's outright lying to a website.  

[Dorientje Woller]

11 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

What do you mean by "data mining" in this context?   Strictly speaking, it refers to examining large datasets in the hope of discovering patterns of behaviour, though I think it's frequently also used to refer to collecting the data, too, often by using using cookies and by granting click-though permissions when we install apps on our smartphones.  

There's no suggestion these bots are doing anything of the sort, as least as far as I know, and neither is it possible to do it with LSL.   So I think maybe you mean something different by the phrase.

If you would have the need to collect data, wouldn't it be better and nicer to issue a survey, where the users of SL can at free will participate, without any login or anonymous and link it here on the forum, instead of annoying the users with their bots against their will. Just a matter of polite behavior.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Dorientje Woller

[Sid Nagy]

12 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

What do you mean by "data mining" in this context?   Strictly speaking, it refers to examining large datasets in the hope of discovering patterns of behaviour, though I think it's frequently also used to refer to collecting the data, too, often by using using cookies and by granting click-though permissions when we install apps on our smartphones.  

There's no suggestion these bots are doing anything of the sort, as least as far as I know, and neither is it possible to do it with LSL.   So I think maybe you mean something different by the phrase.

 

I think, that what I mean is perfectly clear after my list of postings in this thread.
No need to repeat myself just because my understanding and use of English isn't always 100% perfect. Sorry.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Theresa Tennyson]

10 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said:

Maybe it changed recently or I'm bad at using the site, but I can't find you specifically on said site.

Nor myself, but yes my main alt, who had one of the bots pop in right next to her in a 192 sqm skybox a few months ago.

If an avatar has a last name you need to use quotes around the name. Yah, not too smart, those Bonnies...

[Quistess Alpha]

8 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

If an avatar has a last name you need to use quotes around the name. Yah, not too smart, those Bonnies...

"Coffee Pancake" -> No results.

[Dorientje Woller]

20 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said:

Maybe it changed recently or I'm bad at using the site, but I can't find you specifically on said site.

Nor myself, but yes my main alt, who had one of the bots pop in right next to her in a 192 sqm skybox a few months ago.

Same happens to me, each day, that one of these bots appear in my home, while all security measures (me, this alt has only access to) are at place.