Scylla Rhiadra Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said: PEEVE: Why do you only see the mistakes in your post once you hit "Post"? They are not mistakes. They are fruitful and suggestive articulations of the richness that can spring from the complexity of language and self-expression! 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 I'm not against complexity personally. What I am against is enforced complexity for what amounts to basically elitism. Eg "Oh hurr you're not smart enough to be allowed to play. You have to be +x IQ". Most people don't want to compile their own OS, make their own shoes, bake their own bread. They would just be upset if they didn't have the option to do so. Forcing everything to be complex makes people just as unhappy as forcing things to be simple. What we need is a platform that can serve everybody and give people options in terms of complexity and involvement. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 27 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: ...but even the inventory preview system, which is mostly pretty good, remains unknown to the vast majority of residents. I completely forgot that exists. I also have no idea how to even engage with it or how it works at all. I just remember it's something about taking a photo of an item and I pretty much tuned out at that point since my inventory is already so massive (sounds like effort!). I'm not taking photos of 100,000+ items! Peeve: Why can't things just work without me having to do anything? 🤣 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 5 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: I'm not against complexity personally. What I am against is enforced complexity for what amounts to basically elitism. Eg "Oh hurr you're not smart enough to be allowed to play. You have to be +x IQ". Most people don't want to compile their own OS, make their own shoes, bake their own bread. They would just be upset if they didn't have the option to do so. Forcing everything to be complex makes people just as unhappy as forcing things to be simple. What we need is a platform that can serve everybody and give people options in terms of complexity and involvement. Peeve: The Mobile viewer will be "dumbing it down". A LOT. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 3 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said: I completely forgot that exists. I also have no idea how to even engage with it or how it works at all. I just remember it's something about taking a photo of an item and I pretty much tuned out at that point since my inventory is already so massive (sounds like effort!). I'm not taking photos of 100,000+ items! Peeve: Why can't things just work without me having to do anything? 🤣 I'm not going back and taking pics of everything I own either. That would be just plain silly along with taking me about 4632849 years. What I have been doing is taking one when I put something on to wear. This is especially great with hair and makeup. It's just a couple clicks. Image, camera icon, save, done. I just bought a 6pk of BOM leggings today. Took just a couple minutes and I had them all with images so now when I scroll over that system layer pant, I see exactly which pair it is. It's really pretty awesome. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: Image, camera icon, save, done. Thanks, I've been doing it the long way (due to wanting to post pics of hair). I'll start using it just while trying things on, with the "take pic now for image"! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: I'm not against complexity personally. What I am against is enforced complexity for what amounts to basically elitism. Eg "Oh hurr you're not smart enough to be allowed to play. You have to be +x IQ". Most people don't want to compile their own OS, make their own shoes, bake their own bread. They would just be upset if they didn't have the option to do so. Forcing everything to be complex makes people just as unhappy as forcing things to be simple. What we need is a platform that can serve everybody and give people options in terms of complexity and involvement. I think that it pays to try and look beyond the language that is often used to express concerns and try to discern what the concern really is. The more people feel that their SL experience is under threat the more emotionally charged language they will often use. I've been there myself. There are always at least three sides to every argument as they say. People often advocate for changes where they are unaware of the impact it will have on the ability of others and how they enjoy SL. Of course there will be push back against this. It's mostly not as simple as let's just make the things that are unnecessarily complex, simpler. People advocating for this may not be aware that they are reducing flexibility/functionality for some as well. Identifying where complexity can be reduced without meaningful reduction in functionality or flexibility in such a system as SL is extremely difficult. Nobody is advocating for enforced complexity for the sake of it. At the end of the day, it isn't possible to give everybody what they want, there are too many mutually exclusive things in the mix to do that. Edited February 1 by Gabriele Graves 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 42 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: but even the inventory preview system, which is mostly pretty good, remains unknown to the vast majority of residents. I've suggested before that LL could add a simple, standard system to "point out new stuff" when it's added. Like most software (even Microsoft Office) does. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 13 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said: I completely forgot that exists. I also have no idea how to even engage with it or how it works at all. I just remember it's something about taking a photo of an item and I pretty much tuned out at that point since my inventory is already so massive (sounds like effort!). I'm not taking photos of 100,000+ items! Peeve: Why can't things just work without me having to do anything? 🤣 Yes, what Rowan said. It really is pretty easy to do, and you can also easily use vendor ads and textures included with the object or outfit. They mostly got this one right I think. What they have not done, as per usual, is communicate it well to most residents. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 36 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: You're not searching for a solution, you're searching for a problem And you are searching for a problem to apply a solution that isn't needed. You're supposed to find the "problem" FIRST, and THEN develop a "solution", not the other way round. One of the "solutions" that keeps getting spammed on this forum, by way of an example is "LL should ban anyone who's PC is older or cheaper than MINE, because they are holding ME back". Is that an "experimental improvement" we should all gladly embrace? Or should we push back against bloody stupid ideas that would destroy the platform? 44 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: You could easily have proposed to ...that we replace a system THEY CLAIM is too complicated with an EVEN MORE complicated dual system? Yeah, good plan, Try again. Leaving it as it is, is a better option, faster, cheaper, and less disruptive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Yes, what Rowan said. It really is pretty easy to do, and you can also easily use vendor ads and textures included with the object or outfit. They mostly got this one right I think. What they have not done, as per usual, is communicate it well to most residents. I think part of this is that it hasn't been in FS for very long yet. LL has a unique problem in that they don't make the most popular viewer. I agree they got it mostly right except for the 2 second extra delay in opening up the inventory window now (to be fair, not sure if this is an LL or FS issue). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 31 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: They are not mistakes. They are fruitful and suggestive articulations of the richness that can spring from the complexity of language and self-expression! Do you draw little smiley faces by correction marks on your student's papers? I hope so!!! 🙂 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said: I think part of this is that it hasn't been in FS for very long yet. LL has a unique problem in that they don't make the most popular viewer. I agree they got it mostly right except for the 2 second extra delay in opening up the inventory window now (to be fair, not sure if this is an LL or FS issue). I actually hadn't noticed the delay! Now of course I'll be watching for it, and getting peeved when it happens!! I think Love had a good idea about new features. Highlight them when first implemented and direct residents to easy to understand and coherent instru . . . Hah! Sorry, got carried away there. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 5 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said: I agree they got it mostly right except for the 2 second extra delay in opening up the inventory window now (to be fair, not sure if this is an LL or FS issue). I only use the official viewer and didn't notice a delay, of course that doesn't mean there isn't a detlay. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 36 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said: PEEVE: Why do you only see the mistakes in your post once you hit "Post"? 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: ...that we replace a system THEY CLAIM is too complicated with an EVEN MORE complicated dual system? Yeah, good plan, Try again. No, you try again. Look at you. You've just presented another problem, but you haven't dared to imagine a solution to include new residents who don't understand all this complexity at all. If anything, it makes you look like you have low IQ. Present us an actually good solution. Changing nothing doesn't solve the existing problem. Putting your fingers in your ears and going lalalalala can't hear you doesn't work either. Go on. Try. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: I actually hadn't noticed the delay! Now of course I'll be watching for it, and getting peeved when it happens!! I think Love had a good idea about new features. Highlight them when first implemented and direct residents to easy to understand and coherent instru . . . Hah! Sorry, got carried away there. I will say this about the preview. I heard about it and, once again, figured it out by myself. Honestly, the way LL explains things sometimes is like talking to outsourced tech support. If I can figure something out in SL, ANYONE can figure it out. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 minute ago, Extrude Ragu said: No, you try again. Look at you. You've just presented another problem, but you haven't dared to imagine a solution to include new residents who don't understand all this complexity at all. If anything, it makes you look like you have low IQ. Present us an actually good solution. Changing nothing doesn't solve the existing problem. Putting your fingers in your ears and going lalalalala can't hear you doesn't work either. Go on. Try. Some people only see problems, not solutions. If they were to work in certain Corporate environments, and moan and whine and complain, smart management would say, "Fine - tell us how YOU would fix it and we can work together." But if you just complain to those same management without any ideas, then they really don't want to hear it - because it is not helpful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: I only use the official viewer and didn't notice a delay, of course that doesn't mean there isn't a detlay. It may be FS then, or even just FS on Linux. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Yes, what Rowan said. It really is pretty easy to do, and you can also easily use vendor ads and textures included with the object or outfit. They mostly got this one right I think. What they have not done, as per usual, is communicate it well to most residents. Hard agree. Had you not mentioned it just now, I seriously would've continued not remembering the feature existed. I remember vague mention of it from a few months ago, but had no idea it was actually implemented into Firestorm. As far as I've seen, there's no indication in my inventory that it's even a thing I can do (unless it's in the right-click menu, which I kind of half pay attention to since navigating that is all muscle memory by now lol). If it's mentioned in the image capture/screenshot region, I wouldn't have seen it there either as I do my photography in Black Dragon and so so so rarely ever open the screenshot menu in FS. *facepalm* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 30 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: I'm not against complexity personally. What I am against is enforced complexity for what amounts to basically elitism. Some year back, in another of these "Dumb SL down" threads, an idiot made a suggestion for "improving" the viewer. There suggestion had 3 "essential" elements. 1. Massively dumb down the viewer UI 2. Incorporate a "full featured 3D editor suite" into the viewer. 3. Make sure that the dumbed down UI with a full 3D editor, STILL LOOKED EXACTLY LIKE Viewer 1.23. When somebody pointed out that the 3 parts of the suggestion were, quite literally, 100 % incompatible with each other and that many of SL's userss would find a Viewer 1 clone UI totally alien and unpleasant, the idiot went off the deep end about "people opposed to progress" and "thinking outside the box" and "moving forward" to "save SL". All "suggestions" are NOT created equal, some are just too bloody stupid to consider, EVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Just now, Gabriele Graves said: It may be FS then, or even just FS on Linux. Peeve: I'm oblivious enough to say, "maybe the delay was zero before and 2 seconds now". Since the general appearance is there are not many Official viewer users on the Forum, it would explain why I don't recall seeing complaints about any delay. Or it could be that your inventory is a lot bigger than mine, bigger inventory => bigger delay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modulated Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Today, it's people who ask for your opinion about something and seem genuinely offended when you give it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said: As far as I've seen, there's no indication in my inventory that it's even a thing I can do (unless it's in the right-click menu, which I kind of half pay attention to since navigating that is all muscle memory by now lol). The new "Image" button that is shown when you select inventory items isn't there for you? I wasn't aware you could pick images from inventory! That's good to know (like I hadn't tried using "camera", only "upload"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, Modulated said: Today, it's people who ask for your opinion about something and seem genuinely offended when you give it. Peeve: "Tell me your opinion" means, "I am willing to listen if you agree with me". 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
Flickr
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now