Spotted in the Wild

[CaithLynnSayes]

On 9/27/2022 at 11:31 PM, Amina Sopwith said:

Please do me a favour and if you do spot me inworld, don't take a photo. I really can't be bothered to learn the intricacies of mesh and I look like absolute hell. That doesn't bother me for the purposes for which I'm inworld, or else I'd do something about it. But it would be like tagging a picture of me on Facebook which you snapped on the school run.

Why would you worry about that? First of all, it isn't you, it's your avatar, You brought together a set of links to meshes present on the asset server and you are walking said set of meshes and textures around in a digital world.

I see far too often people acting/thinking their avatar is them and i'm slightly worried about those people and their detachment from reality. I'm not saying you are, nor am i targeting anyone by saying this. I'm legitimately worried at times.

I know for a damn fact that whenever i walk my avatar around in some semi-crowded place one or two weirdos has derendered some of my avatar's clothing. Do i care? Absolutely not. It isn't me, it is a 3D recreation of a female body, not me.

[Gabriele Graves]

There are privacy implications though.  As examples, a person may not want to be posted on the forum and be identified as being at particular location or engaging in a particular activity for whatever reason.  Obviously this topic isn't in the adult section so I am not referring to adult oriented places or activities but there is still the potential to embarrass people either deliberately or inadvertently.

I think it would be good manners to check with the person before posting them here personally.

[CaithLynnSayes]

16 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

There are privacy implications though.  As examples, a person may not want to be posted on the forum and be identified as being at particular location or engaging in a particular activity for whatever reason.  Obviously this topic isn't in the adult section so I am not referring to adult oriented places or activities but there is still the potential to embarrass people either deliberately or inadvertently.

I think it would be good manners to check with the person before posting them here personally.

Sorry, i don't agree with that. Try and compare it with the real world. Most, if not all countries in the world pretty much have the same view on this. Once you're in public anyone can take pictures or film you. you are in public and by that definition anyone can see you and know what you do and where. So the privacy point you raise is null and void. I'ts been a while since i read through ToS (don't tell any Lindens) but as far as i can remember, there isn't anything about taking pictures or video of avatars and posting that here or elsewhere online.

In SL i'ts pretty much the same. If you're on mainland or a publicly accessible region, you're "in public". Who's going to stop me from snapping a picture of someone...? Not that i would, but you get what i'm saying.

[Maryanne Solo]

25 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I think it would be good manners to check with the person before posting them here personally.

Most definitely! The thread might have a tick of approval from LL and some basic guidelines perhaps?
Nice piccies to eliminate the "traditional" VW Yuk factor....
*which in 2022 means "opposition" will use that as reason #1 to continue to ignore/berate SL.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Maryanne Solo

[CaithLynnSayes]

Just now, Maryanne Solo said:

I think it would be good manners to check with the person before posting them here personally.

I'll add this: If that's how this is being viewed, why not also check what brand head the avatar has, body, clothing and accessories. Will you contact all those people too and ask if you can take a picture of their intellectual property? - It's a bit silly, isn't it?

[Maryanne Solo]

2 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

I'll add this: If that's how this is being viewed, why not also check what brand head the avatar has, body..... skin etc... 

Just like RL hmmmm ^^?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, CaithLynnSayes said:

I'll add this: If that's how this is being viewed, why not also check what brand head the avatar has, body, clothing and accessories. Will you contact all those people too and ask if you can take a picture of their intellectual property? - It's a bit silly, isn't it?

Gabriele and Maryanne are right.

I don't know that we need rules -- and those currently in place don't prevent posting without permission. But basic common courtesy dictates that you should.

If you don't think it's a big deal, then you could add a note to that effect in your profile? But as it stands, you are trying to dictate to others view as "privacy."

You don't see that as problematic at all?

[CaithLynnSayes]

Just now, Maryanne Solo said:

Just like RL hmmmm ^^?

That's exactly my point...

[Gabriele Graves]

23 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

In SL i'ts pretty much the same. If you're on mainland or a publicly accessible region, you're "in public". Who's going to stop me from snapping a picture of someone...? Not that i would, but you get what i'm saying.

You seem to be equating snapping a picture with publishing it with potentially extra details.  The two are different.  Nobody is questioning anyone's right to snap a picture in SL.

On the publishing front, even in RL someone could hurt/upset by widely publishing pictures of others with details of where they are, etc. it certainly wouldn't be appreciated by those who don't like those kinds of surprises.

This isn't about rules, nobody is saying there are rules against it but there is good social behaviour and bad social behaviour.  What I advised is what, in my opinion, a reasonable person would do if they wanted to act responsibly and not seek to offend/embarrass someone.  Of course there is nothing stopping anyone disregarding my advice and acting anti-socially.

You may disagree all you wish but it doesn't change anything.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Gabriele Graves

[Maryanne Solo]

Idk, 🙄 I'm just trying to find what could be a positive thing or beneficial to this world. 🤔

[CaithLynnSayes]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Gabriele and Maryanne are right.

I don't know that we need rules -- and those currently in place don't prevent posting without permission. But basic common courtesy dictates that you should.

If you don't think it's a big deal, then you could add a note to that effect in your profile? But as it stands, you are trying to dictate to others view as "privacy."

You don't see that as problematic at all?

I'm sorry i think you are missing my point entirely. I'm not sure if you're addressing me when you say "you are trying to dictate to others view as "privacy." You don't see that as problematic at all?" - I'm not "dictating" anything to anyone. All i'm saying is your avatar (not you) is in public, when another user can see your avatar, they can take a pic of it and like you said yourself, there are currently no rules that prevent that.

This does not mean that i won't agree with the fact that asking someone if they can take a picture is the right thing. Sure it is, but you actually don't have to is my point. - Why would i dictate anything? How did you get to that?

[kali Wylder]

20 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

Sorry, i don't agree with that. Try and compare it with the real world. Most, if not all countries in the world pretty much have the same view on this. Once you're in public anyone can take pictures or film you. you are in public and by that definition anyone can see you and know what you do and where. So the privacy point you raise is null and void. I'ts been a while since i read through ToS (don't tell any Lindens) but as far as i can remember, there isn't anything about taking pictures or video of avatars and posting that here or elsewhere online.

In SL i'ts pretty much the same. If you're on mainland or a publicly accessible region, you're "in public". Who's going to stop me from snapping a picture of someone...? Not that i would, but you get what i'm saying.

You have every right to take a picture of whatever you want.  You have absolutely no right to post a picture without the person's permission. 

[CaithLynnSayes]

4 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

You seem to be equating snapping a picture with publishing it with potentially extra details.  The two are different.  Nobody is questioning anyone's right to snap a picture in SL.

On the publishing front, even in RL someone could hurt/upset by widely publishing pictures of others with details of where they are, etc. it certainly wouldn't be appreciated by those who don't like those kinds of surprises.

This isn't about rules, nobody is saying there are rules against it but there is good social behaviour and bad social behaviour.  What I advised is what, in my opinion, a reasonable person would do if they wanted to act responsibly and not seek offend/embarrass someone.  Of course there is nothing stopping anyone disregarding my advice and acting anti-socially.

You may disagree all you wish but it doesn't change anything.

Ok... What would you mean with "extra details" exactly?

I don't really know how to respond to the point you raise when you say that someone would get hurt/upset by a picture taken of them RL. I'm not trying to be offensive here but maybe it's just my culture. I can appreciate it is different in other countries.

I don't see what i said as "anti-social behavior". I could see that statement as an attack, but rest assured, i find it more funny then anything else and i'm really not easily offended.  

[CaithLynnSayes]

3 minutes ago, kali Wylder said:

You have every right to take a picture of whatever you want.  You have absolutely no right to post a picture without the person's permission. 

Who says that? Your feelings? Also, we're talking about avatars here. Not people.

[Amina Sopwith]

I guess we'd need a Linden to confirm if you could post a picture here. I'd struggle to think of an actual TOS reason against it; as people say, if you're in the public domain then you can't really make a logical case for public information not to be made public. I don't see how you couldn't have the "legal" right. But in the interests of courtesy, consideration and  community, it would behove one to check with the subject.

[CaithLynnSayes]

You know what? Let's just agree to disagree. I don't want this thread closed because of a disagreement on a viewpoint. We're going off on a tangent as it is and i know OP has intended this thread to be a long one, like the "Make Us Laugh" or "5 letter Game" threads. I don't want to be the cause of it being prematurely closed.

[Gabriele Graves]

10 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

Ok... What would you mean with "extra details" exactly?

Text along with the picture identifying the location and potentially the activities.

10 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

I don't really know how to respond to the point you raise when you say that someone would get hurt/upset by a picture taken of them RL. I'm not trying to be offensive here but maybe it's just my culture. I can appreciate it is different in other countries.

Again, you are focusing on the taking of the picture, it isn't about that.  It is the publishing.

10 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

I don't see what i said as "anti-social behavior". I could see that statement as an attack, but rest assured, i find it more funny then anything else and i'm really not easily offended.  

There was no attack at all.  I wasn't referring to any behaviour of yours but the act of publishing pictures and details of people.  You already stated you wouldn't do this anyway.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Gabriele Graves

[Gabriele Graves]

8 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

You know what? Let's just agree to disagree. I don't want this thread closed because of a disagreement on a viewpoint. We're going off on a tangent as it is and i know OP has intended this thread to be a long one, like the "Make Us Laugh" or "5 letter Game" threads. I don't want to be the cause of it being prematurely closed.

Well, my view is that topics are for discussion primarily as long as they are on topic.  This part of the discussion is very on topic in my opinion.

Let's just hope it doesn't turn into a "Make us Laugh at other people" kind of thread though.
 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Gabriele Graves

[CaithLynnSayes]

1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Let's just hope it doesn't turn into a "Make us Laugh at other people" kind of thread though.

I agree with that.

 

And thanks for clarifying  

[Rowan Amore]

Figures

[Randall Ahren]

2 hours ago, kali Wylder said:

You have every right to take a picture of whatever you want.  You have absolutely no right to post a picture without the person's permission. 

People who post on the forums are celebrities, like film stars, and must expect to see their photos taken and published by paparazzi when the paparazzi catch them out and about in public.

[kali Wylder]

3 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

People who post on the forums are celebrities, like film stars, and must expect to see their photos taken and published by paparazzi when the paparazzi catch them out and about in public.

Nope, I don't agree.  Posting in a forum does not make you a celebrity. 

[Lyssa Greymoon]

12 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

People who post on the forums are celebrities, like film stars, and must expect to see their photos taken and published by paparazzi when the paparazzi catch them out and about in public.

Aww hell yeah! I have arrived! I’m a superstar!

[Randall Ahren]

12 minutes ago, kali Wylder said:

Nope, I don't agree.  Posting in a forum does not make you a celebrity. 

Yes, but you have injected yourself into the public sphere by posting on a public forum with a photo of your avatar. Therefore, that makes you a public person. Moreover, I have seen your avatar in-world and your forum photo looks just like your avatar. If you like, I can post a photo to prove it.

[Gabriele Graves]

What a load of rubbish.