Forum Changes -> Web User Group on August 3, 2022

[Prokofy Neva]

On 8/3/2022 at 7:33 PM, Seicher Rae said:

I've read each post in the thread so far, have not watched/listened to the video and THANK YOU for posting that. Yes, 5 PM EST is a great time for a meeting. :::eyeroll::: I guess its gotta be 5 PM somewhere.

I've moderated boards before. It isn't a fun job. New rules are not fun to manage. Herding cats comes to mind. However, I'm not ready to jump on the "gee, this is great, and it is going great, and there will be rainbows and bunnies all the way down!" bandwagon. I'm more cynical than our neighbors to the north.  

From the comments I've read, it seems there is STILL confusion about where and what can be discussed where... in typical SL fashion. As it is written, I see no reason for there to be a General Discussion sub-forum any more... and I suspect that is the reasoning in rooms I'm not privvy to. The forums are awash in sub-forums for every topic under the SL EEP suns. What question or topic about SL couldn't possibly fit in one of those other places?

As to the comments about "when I go to a 'game's' message boards, I want game info!"... agreed. To a point. Like many others have said, I too came to the Message Boards/Forums to get some questions asked. Then I poked around. Found the General Discussion and loved the community. If ALL SL Forum was was the GDF, then yeah, that would be kinda stupid, for both SL and its users. As it is though, the GDF is a microcosm in a tiny pond. If you need game (sigh) answers, you can get them in the Forums at large. That's not the GDF.

 I see no reason for there to be a General Discussion sub-forum any more... and I suspect that is the reasoning in rooms I'm not privvy to.

 

Exactly. The Lindens got rid of "General" entirely in the past when the forums were more rife with the politics of inworld resource allocation than outworld, but that, too, during the last Recession. 

So if they drain "General" of all kinds of controversial RL topics, particularly "transgender" or "socialism", then they will eventually be able to simply kill it off dead and it will get less complaints.

The Lindens don't need a forums for answers. They have "Answers" for answers. The forums are for discussion. There does need to be another resident-created high-functioning and tolerant forums created outside of SL. It's the perfect time for it. Discords are an option, but they always feel like a game and a big inworld group chat and aren't as readable.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 8/4/2022 at 3:14 AM, Qie Niangao said:

I really wish Linden user groups were text-only, with transcripts uploaded to the wiki readily accessible to search, as they were ages ago.

YouTube may generate transcripts and it is an Alphabet property, but I don't know of a way to google all the Web User Group transcripts on YouTube to find references to the forum software. Text makes it trivial.

For deaf or HoH residents, user groups must be the least of it. Speaking of Alphabet, though, I gotta say that Android real-time transcription is pretty amazing. Not sure how one goes about routing the SL voice audio into Android; maybe just through the microphone? I clearly have no idea what the real challenges are here.

I don't know why I still get jobs translating YouTube videos. Oh, they're not in English. Oh, the software doesn't work so well, as I sometimes see in even English language transcriptions. But you can always add a correction in the forums. 

There's another dynamic about these meetings that isn't just about (the past) lack of a transcript. It's the power dynamics. Some people are in voice -- mainly Lindens, ,and those with computers who aren't defeated by the often-broken Voice system. And then there's everybody else, ,tapping out words in text. 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 8/4/2022 at 2:45 PM, Madelaine McMasters said:

Sam captured some of my thinking, which is somewhat (maybe?) independent of my personal perspective...

I was in SL two years before discovering the forum in search of some scripting information. Had the forums been only for answering questions, I'd have been in and out and back to SL. But, I'm a forum creature by nature and there was a lot more going on here, so I got sucked in. @Scylla Rhiadra and Pep were the first to capture my attention with their rather spirited discussions. Most of my friends come from the forum. I can access the forums (and therefore my friends) anywhere, anytime. SL itself must wait 'till I'm home and ready to sit at my computer, and I can only communicate with those who're at theirs.

Luna, I've highlighted a portion of your comment in purple. I have never met most of my forum friends in-world. Still, I have met them, and that's of great value to me. SL might enrich those friendships (might also kill them ;-), but the forum enables them at a level that's often sufficient for me. What I do know is that SL itself is not sufficient for any lasting friendship. Within weeks of meeting my last partner, we were on Discord. For the last year of our relationship, we were only on Discord.

I can't re-run the experiment, but I can imagine that I'd have spent much more time in-world (generating revenue for LL) over the last dozen years if I'd not found the forums. I can also imagine that I'd have left long ago, for some place with a vibrant forum.

Though I have enjoyed the forums for over a dozen years, I do not assess their value from my perspective. I try to imagine what benefit they bring to LL, which must prosper if SL is to survive. The creation of the now moribund "Feeds" suggests that LL thinks there is value to an out-world extension of the SL social network. There is. That the Feed is moribund (the front page shows the most recent 10 posts(I think), and that spans... a week) shows that LL didn't understand what was needed. Something is needed. I don't think GD is that thing. I don't think the Feeds are that thing.

Your puzzling over my position is understandable. How could I not understand the value of something I value so highly?

Once again, my thinking is somewhat (maybe?) independent of my personal perspective. SL has great value to many people. For that reason, the survival of SL is much more important in the grand scheme of things than my relationship with it, and all of you (who mean a great deal to me).

Again, I hope you and others will channel this disappointment and even anger into making forums outside of SL. It's the only solution.

And re-starting inworld groups like Thinkers. It's the only solution. 

When you play on the forums, you are always playing to the worst common denominator of both Lindens and residents.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 8/4/2022 at 10:33 PM, Codex Alpha said:

Anytime I've been 'pinged', I know exactly why. Sometimes it's my fault, sometimes I react to someone pushing buttons, or posting controversial responses myself that are hot buttons, and the moderators don't want the discussion to get worse after that.

It's okay to say "Yeah my bad, shouldn't have posted that" or "Thanks, that post got taken the wrong way and it all went to hell after" or "Yeah I went over the line, thanks for the heads up".

People 'not knowing' what they did, come on. People know when they push the line, or skirt so near the rules that others pick up on it too, especially if it's in a string of posts with the same intent.

Usually if one sticks to debating the argument/position someone made, and refrain from personal attacks, or casting aspersions as to their intent, their thoughts, w/e you can have some spirited discussions that everyone can learn from.

However if people want to 'win' and not understand the other side, there are more chances of everyone involved to get more militant or lose their temper. When dog piling occurs, the fight can get pretty real and the drama intensifies.

Hence best to remove hot topics from the forums, that should be dedicated to Second Life themes anyway. Plenty of websites, forums and social media to wage a social or political war already - which in the end is a waste of time as both sides eventually create their own bubbles (eg Gab and Twitter) and the minority opinion on both sides get cancelled (which defeats the purpose of trying come to solutions).

In general, it is safest to respond to what the OP posted, and perhaps come back later and add new thoughts as others offer theirs, and it's not hard to stay on topic.

I've also ran and been a member of many forums over the years, and going off-topic can become quite an issue if not moderated strongly. Some topics would go off topic by 3 responses in at the earliest and many times at the next page.

I disagree completely. When the Lindens send you a reprimand, they should cut and paste back to you the offending remark. Otherwise you can't be sure, even if you notice this comment or others removed from a thread.

It's the very basics of any justice system, even a crude one such as the forums troika -- the right to know the charges against you.

But the Lindens don't do this. Because they know if they *did* do that, many people would cut and paste that charge if not into the forums again, where they would face additional punishment, but to chat inworld or on outside social media *where it would often look ridiculous*. Where it would *not look like it was some horrible offense*. And that's what it's all about.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Again, I hope you and others will channel this disappointment and even anger into making forums outside of SL. It's the only solution.

You mean like the one across the road?

[Coffee Pancake]

9 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Discords are an option, but they always feel like a game and a big inworld group chat and aren't as readable.

You can't have long form discussion on Discord any more than you could on IRC, and precious little good came from that anyway. Although it is easier to have community with name recognition.

Discord drama ends up in a shouting match waaaaay faster than here.

 

 

 

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I disagree completely. When the Lindens send you a reprimand, they should cut and paste back to you the offending remark. Otherwise you can't be sure, even if you notice this comment or others removed from a thread.

It's the very basics of any justice system, even a crude one such as the forums troika -- the right to know the charges against you.

But the Lindens don't do this. Because they know if they *did* do that, many people would cut and paste that charge if not into the forums again, where they would face additional punishment, but to chat inworld or on outside social media *where it would often look ridiculous*. Where it would *not look like it was some horrible offense*. And that's what it's all about.

Depends on the staff who fires off the reprimand. Some will copy/paste the questionable post if you ask super nicely and offer a cookie. Like many boards when a post is removed --- it's actually hidden from public view.  I found that handy on the hame radio board.

[Love Zhaoying]

Idea: number all your posts and replies every day, so upon review you can see which ones disappear.

Brilliant!

[Seicher Rae]

6 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Idea: number all your posts and replies every day, so upon review you can see which ones disappear.

Brilliant!

oy. That would be like how just by keeping a food diary you stop eating junk food because it is too embarrassing to admit.

My posts would dry up to nothing after itemizing: #9, quipped to Scylla about her shoes #17, quipped to Maddy about her age, #23 Taylor Swift gif, #24, Taylor Swift gif, #31 wrote "huh???" to someone's post who seems to be mad at me, #32, Taylor Swift gif, # 37-42 banter/flirted  #43 facepalm gif (probably Taylor)  #49 came in as Gato to banter with myself ...

Yeah. No. I'm already in therapy, that would send me to the padded rooms...

[Gatogateau]

/me sheds on Scylla's Birkenstocks, meows at Maddy for food, shows one or two Forumites my "tail", reads with embarrassment her biped's accurate description of her posting. Pees on the rug so biped has to leave the forums...

[Madelaine McMasters]

31 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

/me meows at Maddy for food

...sets out two bowls, one of catnip, the other of gin

[Scylla Rhiadra]

34 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

Scylla's Birkenstocks

/me splutters with outrage

😡

[Seicher Rae]

canadian outrage

Post #117

Edited August 14, 2022 by Seicher Rae

[Arielle Popstar]

5 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

canadian outrage

Post #117

My eyes, my Eyes, gahhh! AR AR!

[Seicher Rae]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

My eyes, my Eyes, gahhh! AR AR!

 You get to put a different spin and emphasis on the word "outrage" in "Canadian outrage"
YW

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

11 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Idea: number all your posts and replies every day, so upon review you can see which ones disappear.

Brilliant!

InvisionBoard had a feature that can tell you.  It's mostly for admin/mod use, but if you knew the trick you can check on any board. But the IPB fixed that about a year ago and replaced it with a different tool. I discovered it by accident on the ham radio board a few years back and was wondering why I could see it when not logged into that board!