I see the SecondLife Thought Police have arrived.

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Social Justice is what love looks like in public, someone much wiser than myself said.
How the hell did social justice (HUMAN RIGHTS) ever become something to fight over, or just a "difference of opinion"?

Because it is Social Justice, not Social Favouritism where love is evident in public. That means the love extends to both sides and does not involve the tearing down of the one to be equal in misery to the other. Rather it is the building up of the downtrodden to come up to the level of the other. 

We don't rip the mesh body and clothes off the fashionesta to clothe the Ruth or noob but rather we help the noob learn how to get clothes they feel good in so both can feel good about themselves. That is what love is.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Social Justice is what love looks like in public, someone much wiser than myself said.
How the hell did social justice (HUMAN RIGHTS) ever become something to fight over, or just a "difference of opinion"?

Because it is Social Justice, not Social Favouritism where love is evident in public. That means the love extends to both sides and does not involve the tearing down of the one to be equal in misery to the other. Rather it is the building up of the downtrodden to come up to the level of the other. 

We don't rip the mesh body and clothes off the fashionesta to clothe the Ruth or noob but rather we help the noob learn how to get clothes they feel good in so both can feel good about themselves. That is what love is.

I totally agree.

So why do you imagine you're informing me about something I don't already know?

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

I totally agree.

So why do you imagine you're informing me about something I don't already know?

By your words.

[blissfulbreeze]

We all have to learn to agree to disagree. Pick your battles. You can't save the world, some don't even want saving. If one has a fire for social justice, then go take action where it's needed. Debating here off topic won't change the world or even a neighborhood. Go to the battlefield, this is not it. 

[Luna Bliss]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I totally agree.

So why do you imagine you're informing me about something I don't already know?

By your words.

Then you've misinterpreted my words.

[Theresa Tennyson]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

That means the love extends to both sides and does not involve the tearing down of the one to be equal in misery to the other.

Unless the other considers the slightest new inconvenience or loss of privilege as being "torn down to misery."

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, IGarrett said:

I'm also glad about it.

I don't think the problem was with people having opposing takes on X political subject, and more because of the extremists cults making dumb, low IQ, and fake Ad Hominem attacks on how the person who is making the opposing opinion is a white straight male racist supremicist , or other kinds of shenanigans they would come up with, when the actual argument had NO REMARKS on the said person being that.

I bet if everyone had friendly discussions on those topics, we wouldn't have these new rules to begin with.

How is calling someone's post "dumb" and "low IQ" because their view is different from yours, not also an AD Hominem attack?

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, blissfulbreeze said:

Debating here off topic won't change the world

Ahh but Arielle and I might be at the cusp of understanding each other a little better. This is indeed a world-changing event for us   

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Persephone Emerald said:

How is calling someone's post "dumb" and "low IQ" because their view is different from yours, not also an AD Hominem attack?

Great call! I forgot what "ad hominem attack" meant.

I wish you and others would post the fallacies people commit, more often!  I learn from that stuff, because I has teh dum!

[Persephone Emerald]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Because it is Social Justice, not Social Favouritism where love is evident in public. That means the love extends to both sides and does not involve the tearing down of the one to be equal in misery to the other. Rather it is the building up of the downtrodden to come up to the level of the other. 

We don't rip the mesh body and clothes off the fashionesta to clothe the Ruth or noob but rather we help the noob learn how to get clothes they feel good in so both can feel good about themselves. That is what love is.

Good work there in making your post come back to SL.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, blissfulbreeze said:

We all have to learn to agree to disagree. Pick your battles.

You know, I've finally realized what the newly-repopularized Kate Bush song, "Running Up That Hill", is actually about.

It's the "hill we choose do 'die' on" in an argument.

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Unless the other considers the slightest new inconvenience or loss of privilege as being "torn down to misery."

That will vary with each individual and the honest will admit that they too have their limits to how far they are willing to be inconvenienced and or loss of privileges to satisfy the socially disadvantaged. Are you willing to give a noob your time and effort in teaching them to dress, buy some clothes for them etc? Ho far are you willing to go?

[Love Zhaoying]

10 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

Every forum got a new Guideline Post yesterday.  Sheesh!  Did we really need that?  Are we really that bad?

I've given up mainland because LL won't put in any rules, so maybe I'm going to give up the forums because they have too many!

* knock knock * Excuse me, but how does a Forum rule police "thought"?

Are they taking away our tinfoil hats?

[Innula Zenovka]

51 minutes ago, Brightstar7777 said:

I don't think that's it. I think they're in the awkward position of trying to maintain service in venues that are increasingly more illiberal than was the cosmopolitan norm eighteen years ago. They represent the ethos of California and the west coast spirit, but now they have to pretend to be respectful of voices that say women don't have basic reproductive health rights, that say that it's questionable that same sex people should marry and it's offensive to God that transgender people exist at all. They have to respect apartheid if they want to operate in a nation that has that. They have to respect war, and nuclear proliferation, and the most withering destructive failings and excesses of capitalism. Even meaning itself isn't safe, and every defense of it is a controversy, but they want silence, not controversy, in the face of a changing world amidst timeless immortal standards of human equality and justice.  To operate a global Internet multiuser service, they now have to respect even the most depraved demands of theocracy as implemented by men who care little about life, love, light, or Earth. They have to respect every tin despot whose jurisdiction they intend to operate in, whether it's in Tehran, Tel Aviv, or Toledo. In some venues, things are proceeding to get unthinkably ugly. Just look at what's happening to Disney! Linden Lab doesn't have Disney's clout, they're little people. What can they do to protect the vulnerable? Perhaps they have now decided that it's better to ignore the inequity grinding down the lives of some of our users rather than operate an underground press or railroad. If our governments can't protect us, isn't it folly to expect more from Linden Lab or the spirits of this place? And yet there are spirits, and a legacy worn deep into the meta associated with this place.  I don't need to wonder how they feel about it.

I don't know about anyone else, but I try to avoid forums that host discussions about women's reproductive rights, equal marriage, the rights of trans people and so on.  I have my views on those subjects, and I have no interest in debating them with people who hold radically different views, for the same reason I don't argue with people about creationism.    We're not going to change each others' views, so I don't see any point in debating them.   

I don't want to visit a forum that's supposed to be about a particular shared interest and find it full of acrimonious arguments about things that I don't consider up for discussion and which have nothing to do with the forum itself.    If I want an online debate about abortion, same sex marriage or whatever, there's hardly a shortage of places I'll find people who are ready and willing to participate, so I see no need to have such discussions here. 

 

[Miguel Rowley]

10 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

How is calling someone's post "dumb" and "low IQ" because their view is different from yours, not also an AD Hominem attack?

Because I'm not calling the person itself "dumb" and "low IQ", I'm calling their slander statements dumb, and I explained why they are dumb.

You can't just put different points of view in the same bag. If someone has a different point of view, even if I heavily disagree with it, i'll still respect it because I believe in free of speech, however when you start attacking a person's character by calling them "cancel culture" names with no actual evidence, that's not showing "different points of views", that's just straight slander.

Edited July 30, 2022 by IGarrett

[Persephone Emerald]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

* knock knock * Excuse me, but how does a Forum rule police "thought"?

Are they taking away our tinfoil hats?

One could argue that silencing discourse is a way of policing thoughts. Of course we are always free to think however we think, but how do our thoughts matter in the world if we mustn't speak them?

[blissfulbreeze]

Just now, Innula Zenovka said:

I don't know about anyone else, but I try to avoid forums that host discussions about women's reproductive rights, equal marriage, the rights of trans people and so on.  I have my views on those subjects, and I have no interest in debating them with people who hold radically different views, for the same reason I don't argue with people about creationism.    We're not going to change each others' views, so I don't see any point in debating them.   

I don't want to visit a forum that's supposed to be about a particular shared interest and find it full of acrimonious arguments about things that I don't consider up for discussion and which have nothing to do with the forum itself.    If I want an online debate about abortion, same sex marriage or whatever, there's hardly a shortage of places I'll find people who are ready and willing to participate, so I see no need to have such discussions here. 

 

Yes, exactly. ❤️

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I don't know about anyone else, but I try to avoid forums that host discussions about women's reproductive rights, equal marriage, the rights of trans people and so on.  I have my views on those subjects, and I have no interest in debating them with people who hold radically different views, for the same reason I don't argue with people about creationism.    We're not going to change each others' views, so I don't see any point in debating them.   

I don't want to visit a forum that's supposed to be about a particular shared interest and find it full of acrimonious arguments about things that I don't consider up for discussion and which have nothing to do with the forum itself.    If I want an online debate about abortion, same sex marriage or whatever, there's hardly a shortage of places I'll find people who are ready and willing to participate, so I see no need to have such discussions here. 

 

And yet there are literally hundreds of threads that relate directly to secondlife itself and yet some seem to have a need to delve into the threads they hate. Why is that? 

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

And yet there are literally hundreds of threads that relate directly to secondlife itself and yet some seem to have a need to delve into the threads they hate. Why is that?

I'm starting to like you and agree with you more and more...  ❤️

[Sid Nagy]

I want to say a lot at the moment, but I will not.
I go into silent protest mode (read only mode) until ........?

Until the sky clears a bit and it becomes clear what the newly written guidelines mean for the everyday functioning of these forums. Than I will reevaluate again.

Meanwhile I can be found at the neighbors where I do my say on a regular basis too.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Sid Nagy

[Akane Nacht]

16 minutes ago, blissfulbreeze said:

I agree. I'm an admin for an author that has 2 FB pages and 2 groups. One page has over 2 million likes. The rules for his pages and groups is to stay on topic. An excerpt is posted and we discuss it in the groups. I have to heavily moderate due to people trying to slide in off topic comments. Yes, it's human nature but it creates chaos for the members who are trying to focus. We have to run a tight ship to keep things running smoothly and focused. It's a pleasant and safe place.

that's cool but, SL's motto is Your world, your imagination, not We run a tight ship. 

Seems a tiny bit incongruous with the sort of imaginative and creative customers they want to attract but, oh well.

fwiw I don't like political feud posts either, but there have been plenty of other positive, fun, non-directly-related to SL posts that had nothing to do with politics, etc. We're a bunch of people who share a hobby and naturally chat about all sorts of things. 

[Persephone Emerald]

3 minutes ago, IGarrett said:

Because I'm not calling the person itself "dumb" and "low IQ", I'm calling their slander statements dumb.

You can't just put different points of view in the same bag. If someone has a different point of view, even if I heavily disagree with it, i'll still respect it because I believe in free of speech, however when you start attacking a person's character by calling them "cancel culture" names with no actual evidence, that's not showing "different points of views", that's just straight slander.

I can accept that you might think a post is dumb, but a post has no IQ. A post is just words. Only a person can have an IQ, so by referring to a post as "low IQ", you're actually saying it's a post made by a person with a low IQ.

This is similar to my housemate saying that she thinks SL is delusional. Only a person can be delusional, so what that statement is really saying is either that SL is full delusional people or that anyone enjoying a virtual platform is delusional.

Words have mutually accepted meanings. Connotations have meanings too, even if they might be a bit more fuzzy than the explicit dictionary definitions of words.

[blissfulbreeze]

Just now, Akane Nacht said:

that's cool but, SL's motto is Your world, your imagination, not We run a tight ship. 

Seems a tiny bit incongruous with the sort of imaginative and creative customers they want to attract but, oh well.

fwiw I don't like political feud posts either, but there have been plenty of other positive, fun, non-directly-related to SL posts that had nothing to do with politics, etc. We're a bunch of people who share a hobby and naturally chat about all sorts of things. 

I agree that it hasn't been all bad. There's been positive too. However LL is making a private business decision. 

Imagine this: you're having a yard sale, people come and buy your things and do small talk. It's light and safe. Then others come with chairs, coffee and start discussing world events. This starts debating, arguing and people leaving. You have a right to get people back on track for YOUR yard sale. Your home, you're trying to sell things and make some money. Do you want people to start picking up things and starting debates on them? 

LL is a for profit business. They have a right to want to focus on their business plans and goals. 

[Persephone Emerald]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm starting to like you and agree with you more and more...  ❤️

See, Arielle isn't so bad. I love to see people who think rationally and with an open-mind. I don't always agree with anyone, but I will like what I think is a good post or a sentiment I agree with, pretty much whoever posts it.

(I do make some exceptions though.)

[Theresa Tennyson]

17 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

And yet there are literally hundreds of threads that relate directly to secondlife itself and yet some seem to have a need to delve into the threads they hate. Why is that? 

They don't actually hate them and/or they subconsciously enjoy feeling like martyrs.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Theresa Tennyson