To AR Is Human . . .

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

My use of the report feature has changed since the new guidelines took effect.  I am reporting every blatant personal attack.  Instead of ignoring the attack for myself personally, I will just report  and let the mods decide.  I have not gone back to see if the posts are still there or not, but out of 4 reports yesterday, 3 people have not posted yet today.  I will continue to report only personal attacks.  People can criticize ideas all they want and I won't report it.  I will continue to use the reporting tool now.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

27 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

(Luckily, our friendly Moderator redirected us to the original post. So, this bit seems interesting.)

This is completely their business on how others "should, or shouldn't" use the Reporting tool.  This, I assume, it part of why the "Reporting" process is anonymous.

Since I can't control other people, unless they are Reporting "innocent" posts which somehow affect me, I have no say or opinion on how others "should, or shouldn't" use the "Report" function. I can "wish" people use it in a way that "makes sense" and "benefits the community", but that is none of my business really.

The "Report" tool is there to be used; if someone "abuses" the "Report" tool, then it will be noticed. This is less of a "guessing game" than a "people will learn" situation, in my opinion. 

If someone chooses to "never" use the "Report" tool, that is their business too. I would hope they don't judge others who use it, even if it is used in ways that have unpredictable results affecting everyone else.

I think one can make a non-reductive distinction between trying to prescribe how reports (or ARs) are used, and opining that there are some uses of it, specifically those that weaponize it or that involve so-called "AR parties," are illegitimate.

That's independent of whether or not abusing the function has consequences for the abuser: that it might have consequences implies that an ethical judgement about it has already been made by someone.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I am reporting every blatant personal attack.  Instead of ignoring the attack for myself personally, I will just report  and let the mods decide.

May I ask why, Cinn?

I'm not being judgy about it: I don't think I have a problem with reporting "blatant personal attacks." I'm just curious as to why you are doing this more now?

[Arielle Popstar]

8 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

My use of the report feature has changed since the new guidelines took effect.  I am reporting every blatant personal attack.  Instead of ignoring the attack for myself personally, I will just report  and let the mods decide.  I have not gone back to see if the posts are still there or not, but out of 4 reports yesterday, 3 people have not posted yet today.  I will continue to report only personal attacks.  People can criticize ideas all they want and I won't report it.  I will continue to use the reporting tool now.

I made my first ever report today for what I considered to be a blatant attack but am more interested to see whether the attack post is removed then the poster being suspended. The removal of the post or not, gives me some sense of how far the new guidelines go in practice.

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

May I ask why, Cinn?

I'm not being judgy about it: I don't think I have a problem with reporting "blatant personal attacks." I'm just curious as to why you are doing this more now?

It's okay to be judgy.  I am.  My power to challenge the people doing the insulting and attacking was taken away and given to authority.  They will now get to choose the fate of people and their words.  

It will mean more (not less) work for the moderators (sorry about that.)  I don't have another option that won't get me in trouble.  My options are now limited.  I will use the tools I have.

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I made my first ever report today for what I considered to be a blatant attack but am more interested to see whether the attack post is removed then the poster being suspended. The removal of the post or not, gives me some sense of how far the new guidelines go in practice.

Probably against me?  Would you like to discuss it in IM?

[Luna Bliss]

18 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

why you are doing this more now?

I'm not doing it more now, but I feel like reporting people now...because it's the only power we have left .  Our power, our words, have been erased. Strange, because I've only reported the most egregious behaviors, and felt it was wrong to snitch on fellow residents.

Then, after your Audre Lourde quote I realized I'm developing a warring type of mentality    

[Arielle Popstar]

12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Probably against me?  Would you like to discuss it in IM?

 If I feel I need to discuss it further, I can do so in plain view. Thank you for the offer though.

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm not doing it more now, but I feel like reporting people now...because it's the only power we have left .  Our power, our words, have been erased. Strange, because I've only reported the most egregious behaviors, and felt it was wrong to snitch on fellow residents.

Then, after your Audre Lourde quote I realized I'm developing a warring type of mentality    

Well considering your post is like a precedent for the new guidelines, I see there is still a fair amount of leeway for people to express themselves adequately and that perhaps we are just being a little too dramatic as to how restrictive the new rules really are.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

22 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I made my first ever report today for what I considered to be a blatant attack but am more interested to see whether the attack post is removed then the poster being suspended. The removal of the post or not, gives me some sense of how far the new guidelines go in practice.

 

22 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

It's okay to be judgy.  I am.  My power to challenge the people doing the insulting and attacking was taken away and given to authority.  They will now get to choose the fate of people and their words.  

It will mean more (not less) work for the moderators (sorry about that.)  I don't have another option that won't get me in trouble.  My options are now limited.  I will use the tools I have.

 

13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm not doing it more now, but I feel like reporting people now...because it's the only power we have left .  Our power, our words, have been erased. Strange, because I've only reported the most egregious behaviors, and felt it was wrong to snitch on fellow residents.

Then, after your Audre Lourde quote I realized I'm developing a warring type of mentality    

I have been assuming that the new rules would lead to at least a temporary increase in the number of reports, in part simply because there is much more that is reportable now. But I also have wondered if a few who like the new guidelines might be enthusiastically working to purge the forums of posts that now seem to be in violation, and, equally, whether those who don't like them are using them out of either resentment or the sense that it's all that remains to us.

I think the effect will likely be temporary? If only because there will be less and less content over time that does violate the new guidelines, and fewer people to do the ARing. But I might well be wrong on all counts. I guess we'll see.

[Kathlen Onyx]

33 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 

 

 But I also have wondered if a few who like the new guidelines might be enthusiastically working to purge the forums of posts that now seem to be in violation, and, equally, whether those who don't like them are using them out of either resentment or the sense that it's all that remains to us.

 

I hope this doesn't become a lynch mob in trying to figure out who is ARing posts.   I would hope this type of discussion would be squelched immediately.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Sam1 Bellisserian

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I hope this doesn't become a lynch mob in trying to figure out who is ARing posts.   I would hope this type of discussion would be squelched immediately.

I see no indication of a "lynch mob," nor has anyone here suggested there should be one. In fact, I've outright asserted that I will not be using reports.

I don't think there is anything here to "squelch." But if you feel there is, you have available the tools to suggest it.

 

[Flook Somerset]

I've been gone for months; what has actually changed in the guidelines?

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

I admit to some resentment.  I don't like my power being taken away.  I don't like the idea that I can no longer confront those who attack and belittle others without fear of taking heat myself.  The bitterness may or may not last.  It depends entirely on how silenced I feel and how many veiled and subtle attacks I see going by.  Again, I am not reporting ideas I don't agree with.  I am only reporting attacks against people.  I will no longer "ignore" people who use thinly veiled attacks or constant dog whistles to get a rise out of individuals or groups.  They are allowed to post whatever tripe they want.  I am allowed only a report button as a tool.

Also, I am not a mob.  I am an individual making choices on my own about other individuals and their individual posts.  I am on topic discussing how I use the reporting feature in the SecondLife forums.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Flook Somerset said:

I've been gone for months; what has actually changed in the guidelines?

You'll find them in a sticky at the top of his forum.

In summary though, only SL-related topics will now be permitted here, and no politics, "Social Justice issues," or interpersonal disputes (the latter, of course, is not new).

However, existing threads will continue so long as they don't wander to far from the rules.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I admit to some resentment.  I don't like my power being taken away.  I don't like the idea that I can no longer confront those who attack and belittle others without fear of taking heat myself.  The bitterness may or may not last.  It depends entirely on how silenced I feel and how many veiled and subtle attacks I see going by.  Again, I am not reporting ideas I don't agree with.  I am only reporting attacks against people.  I will no longer "ignore" people who use thinly veiled attacks or constant dog whistles to get a rise out of individuals or groups.  They are allowed to post whatever tripe they want.  I am allowed only a report button as a tool.

I totally understand the resentment. And the feelings of powerlessness.

I don't know that I feel "bitter"? Maybe? But I do feel as though I'm no longer at home in a place I've called "home" for well over a decade.

5 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

Also, I am not a mob.  I am an individual making choices on my own about other individuals and their individual posts.  I am on topic discussing how I use the reporting feature in the SecondLife forums.

Yes. This. I think frankly any insinuation that there is a "lynch" mob is unnecessary, ridiculously speculative, belligerent, and provocative.

[Luna Bliss]

6 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I will no longer "ignore" people who use thinly veiled attacks or constant dog whistles to get a rise out of individuals or groups.

Has there been a lot of fighting in the Belli section of the forum?  I seldom make it to those threads so am wondering if that could be the cause of these new restrictions that are causing us to contemplate appropriate AR measures.

[Alwin Alcott]

30 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think the effect will likely be temporary? If only because there will be less and less content over time that does violate the new guidelines, and fewer people to do the ARing. But I might well be wrong on all counts. I guess we'll see.

I think it will be temporary because they never were strong in keeping the own rules, unless there was a sort of hidden force to act.
AR some people always been kinda useless.

[kali Wylder]

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Has there been a lot of fighting in the Belli section of the forum?  I seldom make it to those threads so am wondering if that could be the cause of these new restrictions that are causing us to contemplate appropriate AR measures.

I don't think so.  But I only follow a couple of threads over there.  Seems to be pretty harmonious to me.

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Has there been a lot of fighting in the Belli section of the forum?  I seldom make it to those threads so am wondering if that could be the cause of these new restrictions that are causing us to contemplate appropriate AR measures.

I do spend a lot of time in the Land Forum.  The restructuring there is really nice.  There is the occasional uprising that happens, but nothing like in GD.  Mostly posts stay on topic, but, yes, personal attacks happen there, too - mostly centered around security orbs, land barons, and people with multiple accounts.  The occasional name and shame pops up when new users jump in to complain about their neighbors or landlords.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Cinnamon Mistwood

[Quartz Mole]

A few observations from the Moderators' side of the screen that people might find helpful.

First, all reporting something here does is ensure that one of us sees the post and considers whether it's in breach of any of the forum guidelines.    Quite often it isn't, and we simply mark the report accordingly.   If you see something you think is against the guidelines, then please report it if you think that's appropriate.   All you're doing is saying "please take a look at this".

Second, we can, and do, moderate posts before anyone reports them, if we see something we think is against the guidelines.   And we do watch particularly active threads and ones about potentially explosive topics.

Third, I don't really think "AR parties" take place very often, if at all.   Generally, when we see multiple reports of the same post it's because there's something clearly wrong -- it's very obviously in the wrong forum or seriously in breach of one of the rules.  Often it’s because someone is "naming and shaming" a merchant, club-owner, or landlord with whom they have a grievance, or an ex-partner, or has posted a nude image, or it indicates one of those foul-mouthed nuisances with whom we have now and again must play "whack-a-troll" has reappeared.

When there does seem to a concerted effort to report someone (often because someone seems to have it in for their landlord or for a competitor) it doesn't make much difference -- either the post is a sufficiently serious breach of the rules and guidelines that moderation is necessary or it isn't, and we don't take the number of reports into account when assessing that.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Quartz Mole

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

I think it will be temporary because they never were strong in keeping the own rules, unless there was a sort of hidden force to act.
AR some people always been kinda useless.

That's possible! Although we need to distinguish between reporting, and how those reports are handled.

About the latter i have not much to say, except that, to their credit, we have more engaged and proactive mods than in the past. So I think they'll do their best to do their job -- which is, first and foremost, to enforce the forum's own rules. I can't blame them for that: it is literally their job.

I do think that the number of reports, assuming that it rises (and I have no way, obviously, of know that it will or has) will drop, for reasons I've already suggested.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Quartz Mole said:

A few observations from the Moderators' side of the screen that people might find helpful.

First, all reporting something here does is ensure that one of us sees the post and considers whether it's in breach of any of the forum guidelines.    Quite often it isn't, and we simply mark the report accordingly.   If you see something you think is against the guidelines, then please report if think that's appropriate.   All you're doing is saying "please take a look at this".

Second, we can, and do, moderate posts before anyone reports them, if we see something we think is against the guidelines.   And we do watch particularly active threads and ones about potentially explosive topics.

Third, I don't really think "AR parties" take place very often, if at all.   Generally, when we see multiple reports of the same post it's because there's something clearly wrong -- it's very obviously in the wrong forum or seriously in breach of one of the rules.  Often it’s because someone is "naming and shaming" a merchant, club-owner, or landlord with whom they have a grievance, or an ex-partner, or has posted a nude image, or it indicates one of those foul-mouthed nuisances with whom we have now and again must play "whack-a-troll" has reappeared.

When there does seem to a concerted effort to report someone (often because someone seems to have it in for their landlord or for a competitor) it doesn't make much difference -- either the post is a sufficiently serious breach of the rules and guidelines that moderation is necessary or it isn't, and we don't take the number of reports into account when assessing that.

I can't thank you enough for this, Quartz. It really makes everything much less opaque, and I think will do a great deal to reduce the uncertainty and misapprehensions surround the report.

[Love Zhaoying]

40 minutes ago, Quartz Mole said:

A few observations from the Moderators' side of the screen that people might find helpful.

First, all reporting something here does is ensure that one of us sees the post and considers whether it's in breach of any of the forum guidelines.    Quite often it isn't, and we simply mark the report accordingly.   If you see something you think is against the guidelines, then please report it if think that's appropriate.   All you're doing is saying "please take a look at this".

Second, we can, and do, moderate posts before anyone reports them, if we see something we think is against the guidelines.   And we do watch particularly active threads and ones about potentially explosive topics.

Third, I don't really think "AR parties" take place very often, if at all.   Generally, when we see multiple reports of the same post it's because there's something clearly wrong -- it's very obviously in the wrong forum or seriously in breach of one of the rules.  Often it’s because someone is "naming and shaming" a merchant, club-owner, or landlord with whom they have a grievance, or an ex-partner, or has posted a nude image, or it indicates one of those foul-mouthed nuisances with whom we have now and again must play "whack-a-troll" has reappeared.

When there does seem to a concerted effort to report someone (often because someone seems to have it in for their landlord or for a competitor) it doesn't make much difference -- either the post is a sufficiently serious breach of the rules and guidelines that moderation is necessary or it isn't, and we don't take the number of reports into account when assessing that.

Thanks for all your hard work!

[Seicher Rae]

1 hour ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

 I don't like the idea that I can no longer confront those who attack and belittle others without fear of taking heat myself. 

As I've kept saying, I haven't been here in so long, and just popped in yesterday, but I kicked some of the threads.

Hasn't the threat of taking the heat oneself, in retaliation to real or imagined attacks, always been part of the ARing stuff? It has always been some faceless (though often suspected) enraged person making an AR and then some moderator taking action (or not, depending on the year of Fourm history) and then the person reported then turns around and reports everyone else?

I've been AR'd in the past (I know, you are shocked), and at least one of them was confronting people who were being jerks, to me or others. YMMV.

Being able to be AR'd for a hilarious RL cat photo seems a bit draconian... and with more "I'll get my hated enemy" potential.

[Love Zhaoying]

55 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

Being able to be AR'd for a hilarious RL cat photo seems a bit draconian... and with more "I'll get my hated enemy" potential.

I'm reminded of the time I was! It was a great cat photo, but I shoulda / did know better. Worth it!