The Second Life Mission Discussion

[Love Zhaoying]

12 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

You sure? Maybe you need to dig deeper and only looking at the news that supports your opinions.

"I would block ambulance with dying patient onboard, says XR founder Roger Hallam

Extinction Rebellion co-founder Roger Hallam said he would block an ambulance carrying a dying patient in order to get the group’s message across.

Yesterday, a crying woman begged Insulate Britain protesters blocking the Blackwall tunnel to allow her to pass so she could get to her hospitalised mother.

Hallam told The London Economic podcast, Unbreak the Planet with Mike Galsworthy, he would have stayed put had he been confronted with the tearful woman.

Mike asks Hallam: “If it were an ambulance and there was someone in there that could potentially die, would you stay there?”

“Yep,” Hallam instantly replies."

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/climate/ambulance-roger-hallam-extinction-rebellion-v6cfe3668

Yeah, but was she late for work? Perspective!

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Yeah, but was she late for work? Perspective!

That is why I bolded the important quote:

Mike asks Hallam: “If it were an ambulance and there was someone in there that could potentially die, would you stay there?”

“Yep,” Hallam instantly replies."

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

That is why I bolded the important quote:

Mike asks Hallam: “If it were an ambulance and there was someone in there that could potentially die, would you stay there?”

“Yep,” Hallam instantly replies."

He's never personally blocked an ambulance though.

But he certainly knows how to bring attention to his cause.  

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

5 hours ago, cunomar said:

Rosa Parks

https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/rosa-parks

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

History Tells Us That Protests Can Bring Change

https://njsbf.org/2020/11/19/history-tells-us-that-protests-can-bring-change/

[Arielle Popstar]

13 minutes ago, Kiera Clutterbuck said:

He's never personally blocked an ambulance though.

But he certainly knows how to bring attention to his cause.  

Regardless, he is a founder and leader of the movement and as such his words surely motivate his followers to follow his lead in doing exactly what he said he would do. Both the Canadian and US governments are prosecuting and incarcerating leaders and followers of the January 6th and Freedom Convoy protests for much less then that. Are you supporting those protests too or they don't fit your particular viewpoint or narrative? They are after all what you regard as the proper ways for the will of the people to manifest itself so I would expect you to support those in principle as an activist, regardless if you might disagree with the stated goals.

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

1 hour ago, Kiera Clutterbuck said:

He's never personally blocked an ambulance though.

But he certainly knows how to bring attention to his cause.  

Regardless, he is a founder and leader of the movement and as such his words surely motivate his followers to follow his lead in doing exactly what he said he would do.

He is a co-founder of Extinction Rebellion, but not a leader. On the Extinction Rebellion website they clearly state he is not a leader.

"Extinction Rebellion has a strict policy of letting ambulances through our nonviolent protests. This is a matter of public record. Our policy is designed into every XR action, and we move aside for flashing lights and sirens – ambulances, fire engines, paramedics.
Comments made yesterday by Roger Hallam were made in his own capacity, about a hypothetical scenario, not on behalf of Extinction Rebellion.
XR does not have leaders or “bosses” as stated by some papers today, we are a decentralised movement.
In the face of the climate and ecological emergency happening now, Extinction Rebellion recognises the need for actions that are highly disruptive and controversial, while remaining committed to nonviolent civil disobedience".

https://extinctionrebellion.uk/2021/10/05/5th-october-statement/

As a prominent person in XR he might have undue influence over other protestors though, so I do take your point. In my view it's good that XR made it clear Roger Hallam was not speaking on behalf of XR and that they have no leader.
I also understand Hallam's point, usually not stated in interviews surrounding this fiasco, that it's odd how people are upset about one person not making it to the hospital, perhaps even dying, but seem unconcerned about the millions or billions of people who will die due to the climate catastrophe we are facing. 

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Both the Canadian and US governments are prosecuting and incarcerating leaders and followers of the January 6th and Freedom Convoy protests for much less then that [supposedly not letting ambulances through a protest]. Are you supporting those protests too or they don't fit your particular viewpoint or narrative? They are after all what you regard as the proper ways for the will of the people to manifest itself so I would expect you to support those in principle as an activist, regardless if you might disagree with the stated goals.

Protests on either side (left or right) can be beneficial in that they bring awareness to issues and stimulate further action. So to your main question, no I am not only for protests aligning with my viewpoint (progressive).

However, the Jan 6 insurrection was not a protest; via illegal entry into a government building there was an attempt to overthrow the United States government to nullify the results of an election, and to hang a vice-president for not acceding to the wishes of the party that lost the election. This would have ended Democracy (free and fair elections) and taken us closer to an authoritarian one-party state. I suggest watching the most recent hearings on CSpan to understand the gravity of the situation. 

I have no problem with people peacefully protesting against vaccinations. I am against political parties using issues to win votes however (and I suspect the GOP was using the Canadian convoy to gain another wedge issue for elections, as funding was traced to wealthy individuals on the far right). Guns, God, & Babies seems to be the main GOP wedge issues, and gaining the anti-vaxxer vote factors in as well.

Anti-vax protestors should be prosecuted if they broke the law; same with anyone breaking the law in the UK by not allowing an ambulance to pass, and there is a law against this, with fines:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/39/contents
Something to consider - if there are vast amounts of protests not allowing ambulances to pass through the streets in the UK wouldn't there be a record of it? I have no inclination to dig that deep into it, but if it's happening a record should exist.

Just to be clear, I am against any kind of violence at a protest by either the left or the right; this includes not letting an ambulance pass through a street protest, or destroying property. It's ridiculously black&white thinking to totally trash protests or a movement (like BLM, or the XR mission, or a peaceful anti-vaxxer protest) simply because violence sometimes occurs though.

[Coffee Pancake]

9 hours ago, cunomar said:

If you care for the planet then show it by cultivating the garden of someone unable to do it themselves for financial or physical reasons . Do something useful instead of blocking roads causing people to spend twice as much time and fuel getting to work . Pissing off your peers in the hope it might move the mighty is simply ridiculous .

I don't think you appreciate the scale nor urgency of the problem nor do you have the correct framing for "inconvenient" actions.

Your interests and the protesters are aligned, you both share the same planet and are subject to the same outcomes.

[Zidaya Zenovka]

Protest

by Ella Wheeler Wilcox

To sin by silence, when we should protest,
Makes cowards out of men. The human race
Has climbed on protest. Had no voice been raised
Against injustice, ignorance, and lust,
The inquisition yet would serve the law,
And guillotines decide our least disputes.
The few who dare, must speak and speak again
To right the wrongs of many. Speech, thank God,
No vested power in this great day and land
Can gag or throttle. Press and voice may cry
Loud disapproval of existing ills;
May criticise oppression and condemn
The lawlessness of wealth-protecting laws
That let the children and childbearers toil
To purchase ease for idle millionaires.

Therefore I do protest against the boast
Of independence in this mighty land.
Call no chain strong, which holds one rusted link.
Call no land free, that holds one fettered slave.
Until the manacled slim wrists of babes
Are loosed to toss in childish sport and glee,
Until the mother bears no burden, save
The precious one beneath her heart, until
God’s soil is rescued from the clutch of greed
And given back to labor, let no man
Call this the land of freedom.

[Rat Luv]

Well...just my opinion...I care about the environment, and have joined a clean-up volunteer group for London's Green Walks (where people always litter the brooks 😬)...but I can't stand XR or Insulate Britain...

They don't disrupt the companies that are responsible for pollution, why? Why target people going to work who have nothing to do with this? They're really unpopular...I won't post it here, but if you look up "XR Canning Town" on YT, they went to a tube station in East London at 6am and held up a train by standing on the top, and the residents who had to go to work got fed up and grabbed them off  (Canning Town is a working class area and quite tough!) Not everybody has understanding bosses, some people are scraping by and only getting paid per hour (they get their pay docked for when they're not on shift)...it's not like being held up is some minor inconvenience and your boss just says "Oh, no problem!", some people can lose money because of it...

And sorry, anyone who says they would hold up an ambulance with a dying patient, even if they said it to get attention, is just a PLONKER in my book 👎 I bet all my savings he wouldn't feel that way if it was his child in the back...and he also said "We're happy to go to prison! We should all be prepared to go to prison!" But someone in his social situation (he is actually quite posh) will be treated far better by the police, and can afford better lawyers, than most people in London. Also, they are always apologising for something one of their members said...like another XR plonker put up posters saying Covid was 'nature's revenge' during the early months of the pandemic, and they all had to disown him...

Oh well, I didn't mean to rant. XR just really annoy me. 

[Persephone Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

Well...just my opinion...I care about the environment, and have joined a clean-up volunteer group for London's Green Walks (where people always litter the brooks 😬)...but I can't stand XR or Insulate Britain...

They don't disrupt the companies that are responsible for pollution, why? Why target people going to work who have nothing to do with this? They're really unpopular...I won't post it here, but if you look up "XR Canning Town" on YT, they went to a tube station in East London at 6am and held up a train by standing on the top, and the residents who had to go to work got fed up and grabbed them off  (Canning Town is a working class area and quite tough!) Not everybody has understanding bosses, some people are scraping by and only getting paid per hour (they get their pay docked for when they're not on shift)...it's not like being held up is some minor inconvenience and your boss just says "Oh, no problem!", some people can lose money because of it...

And sorry, anyone who says they would hold up an ambulance with a dying patient, even if they said it to get attention, is just a PLONKER in my book 👎 I bet all my savings he wouldn't feel that way if it was his child in the back...and he also said "We're happy to go to prison! We should all be prepared to go to prison!" But someone in his social situation (he is actually quite posh) will be treated far better by the police, and can afford better lawyers, than most people in London. Also, they are always apologising for something one of their members said...like another XR plonker put up posters saying Covid was 'nature's revenge' during the early months of the pandemic, and they all had to disown him...

Oh well, I didn't mean to rant. XR just really annoy me. 

So they're like Greenpeace and PETA?

[cunomar]

Yes we share the planet , and there is no far left or right . There is only us . The masses are connected like never before and so more dangerously difficult to control .

They are a tiny minority who cannot hope to stem the tide , so they pit us against each other with propaganda . The media machine works for the highest bidder , and science lost credibility by opting to do the same .

Did you know that everyone who ever seen a lit cigarette died just moments later , yup its a scientifically proven fact - rolls eyes . Its all about people's health and had absolutely nothing to do with the credit crunch and forcing the massive wealth of the tobacco industry to release funds in order to shore up the coffers , nope honestly guv that was just a happy coincidence .

No fish in the sea lol . Give a fisherman permission to prove you wrong and it might take them an hour to fill the boat fit to sink with fish that don't exist . Its on par with fishermen telling scientists how to cure cancer .

Simple logic dictates that the planet has to be suffering due to overpopulation , an unpleasant fact that nobody will deny . If only they would stop telling lies and inciting idiots to gain a profitable advantage , maybe then people who have been forced to dismiss with contempt the entire issue might actually be willing to listen .

Why bother just build another windmill which serves no purpose but sets up a lovely trust fund for lord robbit's grandaughter .

[Persephone Emerald]

^ I wish we had an emoji for sticking out one's tongue. You're post isn't funny, so it doesn't warrant a laughing emoji, but if I post a sad one, because I think your point of view is depressing, it would look like I was agreeing with you.

[Rat Luv]

31 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

So they're like Greenpeace and PETA?

I don't really know much about those groups, to be honest.

ETA - now I googled, I do remember there was a thing about Greenpeace telling Inuits not to hunt whales, even though they rely on them to survive...I think whale slaughter is horrible but I'm not Inuit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  But I think Greenpeace would do better getting Seaworld banned, which DOES seem like pointless cruelty for entertainment to me. I should stay out of politics threads, lol. 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Rat Luv

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I am beginning to regret not being "unkind" earlier.

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I am beginning to regret not being "unkind" earlier.

Be sure and smile when you advise against the destruction of the entire planet.

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

A riot is the language of the unheard. 
              —Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Rat Luv]

Be as 'unkind' as you like 🙄 Just being honest. Also, I am not asking people to smile about it - just maybe bring the disruption to companies who deserve it, not people having to go to work?

[Coffee Pancake]

6 hours ago, cunomar said:

No fish in the sea lol . Give a fisherman permission to prove you wrong and it might take them an hour to fill the boat fit to sink with fish that don't exist . Its on par with fishermen telling scientists how to cure cancer .

Yeah.. there are fish, but there needs to be a viable base population that we can just skim off the top. Of course fishermen can pull out the base population, but then what .. overfishing is well documented and studied.

6 hours ago, cunomar said:

Simple logic dictates that the planet has to be suffering due to overpopulation , an unpleasant fact that nobody will deny .

Oh no .. are there too many people? 

This has been a dangerous and deeply racist myth since the 19th century and repeatedly used to justify the very worst outcomes, forced sterilization, institutionalization, straight up genocide.

Which populations do you think need to be reduced? because if you're looking for population responsible for our climate woes you need only find a mirror.

 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 hours ago, Rat Luv said:

Be as 'unkind' as you like 🙄 Just being honest. Also, I am not asking people to smile about it - just maybe bring the disruption to companies who deserve it, not people having to go to work?

Not to you, Rat. You are emphatically not the issue.

[Drayke Newall]

20 hours ago, Kiera Clutterbuck said:

there is no evidence that Extinction Rebellion ever kept an ambulance from heading to their destination. 

Really? You didn't look very hard, which is saying something considering this took me literally 15 seconds to find...

Video: Extinction Rebellion protest blocks traffic and NHS ambulance | Daily Mail Online

You seem to define protesters blocking an ambulance in a manner in which the protesters themselves need to stand in front and block yet, fail to realise that these xR protest where they close of roads or bridges in this case etc can have far reaching consequences.

In the above example xR might not have blocked the ambulance directly however, the chaos caused by blocking a bridge did indeed block an ambulance from the direct route to the hospital meaning that ambulance needed to back track away from the hospital which could have caused serious issues to the patient within due to the delay.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Drayke Newall

[cunomar]

3 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Yeah.. there are fish, but there needs to be a viable base population that we can just skim off the top. Of course fishermen can pull out the base population, but then what .. overfishing is well documented and studied.

The science is out of context . The data , supplied on threat of legal consequence by fishermen who's livelihood is  limited by their boats capabilities to fish the same areas year on year for decades morally bound to protect stocks so that his son and grandson might take the helm in due time .

Want to alter the data just put them on a quota so next years figures will show very clearly "omg theres less fish in the sea"

Mix up all that then with wholly unjustifiable corporation owned multi million pound floating fish factories and you end up with well documented and studied pie in the sky nonsense . But it fits the agenda .

4 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Which populations do you think need to be reduced? because if you're looking for population responsible for our climate woes you need only find a mirror.

Nature will make that choice .  The planet will be fine and will continue to evolve .The fight is to protect the interests of the human race .Drive electric cars despite most people can't afford them because it saves billionaires giving up their private jets . Contracts worth billions to build windmills in a grand gesture when a tiny little cheap and nasty windmill on the roof of every house could feed more power back to the grid .

I'm with Rat luv close Seaworld and the Eskimos didn't wipe out whales , nor did fishermen , because they can't afford a boat fit for the job . But when big business sees a nook to exploit ...................

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

Equality is concerned with protecting the rights of the vulnerable:

Here's a good example of a global march that enabled better rights for children:

The Global March Against Child Labor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_march_against_child_labor

"The global march against child labour came about in 1998, following the significant response concerning the desire to end child labour. It was a grassroot movement that motivated many individuals and organizations to come together and fight against child labor". 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Kiera Clutterbuck

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

6 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Really? You didn't look very hard, which is saying something considering this took me literally 15 seconds to find...

Video: Extinction Rebellion protest blocks traffic and NHS ambulance | Daily Mail Online

You seem to define protesters blocking an ambulance in a manner in which the protesters themselves need to stand in front and block yet, fail to realise that these xR protest where they close of roads or bridges in this case etc can have far reaching consequences.

In the above example xR might not have blocked the ambulance directly however, the chaos caused by blocking a bridge did indeed block an ambulance from the direct route to the hospital meaning that ambulance needed to back track away from the hospital which could have caused serious issues to the patient within due to the delay.

I'm not sure that the fact it took you 15 seconds to find something is anything you want to be advertising. The Daily Mail is not a good source of reputable information; it's known as a tabloid with a very low score at mediabiasfactcheck:

QUESTIONABLE SOURCE

"A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency, and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact-checked on a per-article basis. 

 Overall, we rate Daily Mail Right Biased and Questionable due to numerous failed fact checks and poor information sourcing.

Detailed Report

Questionable Reasoning: Right, Propaganda, Conspiracy, Some Fake News, Numerous Failed Fact Checks
Bias Rating: RIGHT
Factual Reporting: LOW
Country: United Kingdom
Press Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Newspaper
Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY"

More info on them here:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/

Edited July 7, 2022 by Kiera Clutterbuck
changed 'minutes' to 'seconds'