The Second Life Mission Discussion

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Actually, if the stats for STEM careers in RL are any indication, women are probably less likely to have the creation tools in this medium. I'd say the rest of your post is probably spot on.

Some context from my RL: When I was in college, what I would call "early days" of "computer science" for Business - most of what we would call "business programmers" were learning mainframes, and they were called "Business Analysts" (BA's) - and they were women!  Fast forward from 1989 to 1998 - second jobs - and a very high proportion of the (mainframe) programmers were women!  So that was "STEM" in those days. Slowly, I've seen at my Fortune 100 company women climb of the ranks from being Project Managers, Directors etc. to VP's, SVP's, CIO..

With all THAT happening (^^ my RL exposure listed above) the examples I gave in my "what if" are still more "theoretical" to me.  

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Personally, when someone says they have equality as their mission they have my vote! Does everyone think this is an important vision for a virtual world company? How does SL compare to other virtual world companies regarding a mission?

I'd venture to say it's a much better mission than tracking your every move for advertising purposes, like at Meta.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Kiera Clutterbuck said:

I'd venture to say it's a much better mission than tracking your every move for advertising purposes, like at Meta.

Job benefits include "FREE COOKIES FOR LIFE!"

Just not the kind of cookies you actually want.

[Coffee Pancake]

7 minutes ago, Kiera Clutterbuck said:

I'd venture to say it's a much better mission than tracking your every move for advertising purposes, like at Meta.

Don't assume they don't track our every movement .. they just don't sell the data ...

Maybe they don't sell it because the only people interested in buying it are psychology majors and they're all broke.

[sirhc DeSantis]

'Mission', 'Vision', 'MBA Flavour of the month here' =^^= (oh I was married to marketing once)

Fascinating that here it went straight to.... gender of those cashing out. Besides - its a video?

I do not *do* talking heads. Migh t be me getting deafer in my dotage but I like stuff written down. So I can quote it after a quick scan and cross reference. Announce it in writing as company policy and I will get back to you. On the responses so far, would probably have my support - after aforesaid cross checking.

I can wait.

[Theresa Tennyson]

26 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Actually, if the stats for STEM careers in RL are any indication, women are probably less likely to have the creation tools in this medium. I'd say the rest of your post is probably spot on.

Not sure that has any relevance to the topic. There's a big difference between being able to write a 3D modeling application and being able to create something in it.

[diamond Marchant]

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Personally, when someone says they have equality as their mission they have my vote! Does everyone think this is an important vision for a virtual world company? How does SL compare to other virtual world companies regarding a mission? And practically, how well does SL achieve this mission?

Yes, what's not to like? As a rule though, I observe what people actually do rather than what they suggest with words. So the jury is still out. Recall that Linden Research is owned by an investment group headed by Brad and Randy (so Brandy?). The SL mission could change overnight should they exit.

<digression>Westworld Season 4 started. The man in the black hat said "In America everything is for sale". The Valley Beyond appears to be in a data center at Hoover Dam. </digression>

Edited June 27, 2022 by diamond Marchant
digression

[Ayashe Ninetails]

19 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Actually, if the stats for STEM careers in RL are any indication, women are probably less likely to have the creation tools in this medium. I'd say the rest of your post is probably spot on.

In the US at least, over 60% of creatives in the design industry are women (according to the American Institute of Graphic Arts). I don't have stats on 3D design, though. That might be a whole other ballgame, but I'm not as familiar with that area.

Obviously, far fewer women in leadership roles, but I'm still kind of surprised by the number in general. I did have a loooot of women in my design classes in the early 2000s, but it didn't really hit me at the time, I guess.

https://eyeondesign.aiga.org/women-make-up-more-than-half-of-the-design-industry-but-how-do-they-get-to-the-top

"According to the 2019 AIGA Design Census, 61% of designers working today are women. The rate of female creative directors across the industry rose from 3% in 2008 to 29% today."

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

9 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

21 minutes ago, Kiera Clutterbuck said:

I'd venture to say it's a much better mission than tracking your every move for advertising purposes, like at Meta.

Don't assume they don't track our every movement .. they just don't sell the data ...

Maybe they don't sell it because the only people interested in buying it are psychology majors and they're all broke.

and "naughty" factors.  hehe

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

In the US at least, over 60% of creatives in the design industry are women (according to the American Institute of Graphic Arts). I don't have stats on 3D design, though. That might be a whole other ballgame, but I'm not as familiar with that area.

Obviously, far fewer women in leadership roles, but I'm still kind of surprised by the number in general. I did have a loooot of women in my design classes in the early 2000s, but it didn't really hit me at the time, I guess.

https://eyeondesign.aiga.org/women-make-up-more-than-half-of-the-design-industry-but-how-do-they-get-to-the-top

"According to the 2019 AIGA Design Census, 61% of designers working today are women. The rate of female creative directors across the industry rose from 3% in 2008 to 29% today."

Yay! This supports my assumptions and RL tech industry experience, noting that I'm not "in design".

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Linden Lab Executive Chairman Oberwolf Linden said one of things he admires about virtual worlds, SL in particular, is how incredibly equalizing they are across so many features of human beings....

Equality is one of SL's defining features, however I'm not sure how much credit can be placed at Linden Lab's door step.

It's not like there are giant levers in upper managements offices they can use to tweak outcomes, nor do I think the creation and installation of such levers would ever make it out of the feature request phase (or look anything like levers, operate like levers, and require the user to watch 4 hours of 3rd party you toob tutorial videos made by someone who hasn't yet discovered editing's dark arts) 

There is also the important point that equality is not equity.

So really I think there is a commitment to continued indifference that has produced outcomes worthy of celebration.

 

This is great, but also not really so great.

if 80% of the top earners are women .. maybe it's time to be looking at what can be done to get a few more men in the game.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Coffee Pancake

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Yay! This supports my assumptions and RL tech industry experience, noting that I'm not "in design".

This would at least support the idea that womens access to professional industry standard design tools like Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, After Effects, Premiere, etc. is not at all limited. Again, 3D could be very different. I don't really count that among graphic arts - but that's just a personal vendetta because 3D involves so much freaking math and I hate that. 😂

Blender being completely free does actually help, though. Considering Maya and 3ds Max cost what...a gatrillion dollars? Ok not that much but you know what I mean. Hundreds per month at least.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

This would at least support the idea that womens access to professional industry standard design tools like Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, After Effects, Premiere, etc. is not at all limited. Again, 3D could be very different.

One of my first SL friends (a woman from Germany) used Maya, I was shocked at the prices.  So, yeah. 

[ItHadToComeToThis]

2 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

For now, I agree with this vision unless it affects me negatively and then I don't agree with it. 

If women are the top earners and we need income equality does that mean LL will encourage more male entrepreneurs? How would they do that? The market for men's avatars and clothing accessories is considerably smaller. I'm glad I don't work for LL because that's certainly a pickle.

The issue with mens clothing vs womens clothing in SL is that womens clothing choices are very cookie cutter, repetitive and most designers all seem to copy one another. In the mens sections however there are some pretty interesting designs. Whether industrial, goth, mainstream, urban or cyberpunk. The designs cater to this cool, sleek, imposing aesthetic. Then you visit the female section the designers think every girl in SL wants a swim suit style outfit with knee high boots and the swimsuit yanked up your foofoo. No one makes for example, interesting practical urban or whatever clothing for females. It’s all hoe thot cyber urban gimme 50L whore wear. Or ridiculously generic cookie cutter.

If I knew of a male body that could pass for female that is popular enough for most creators to develop for it I would buy it in a heartbeat and start shopping 😅

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Blender being completely free does actually help, though. Considering Maya and 3ds Max cost what...a gatrillion dollars? Ok not that much but you know what I mean. Hundreds per month at least.

Blender has been free for a very long time, the change was a concerted effort to update and modernize the workflow and UI, that resulted in significant industry funding and a stream of new exciting features coming at break neck speed. Using blender in a commercial studio setting is now completely viable and their update cycle actually takes this into account.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

One of my first SL friends (a woman from Germany) used Maya, I was shocked at the prices.  So, yeah. 

Ugh, srsly. I'm also not fond at ALL of these software companies opting for subscription models over outright purchase. I've moved on to the Affinity suite and left Adobe in the dust many years ago. And with 3D software, sub pricing is no joke. As much as I loathe Blender and everything about 3D modeling in general, it really came through for people and made design very accessible, I'll say that much. 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Blender has been free for a very long time, the change was a concerted effort to update and modernize the workflow and UI, that resulted in significant industry funding and a stream of new exciting features coming at break neck speed. Using blender in a commercial studio setting is now completely viable and their update cycle actually takes this into account.

Blender is free, GIMP is free - of a sudden it's, "what expensive tools?"

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Blender has been free for a very long time, the change was a concerted effort to update and modernize the workflow and UI, that resulted in significant industry funding and a stream of new exciting features coming at break neck speed. Using blender in a commercial studio setting is now completely viable and their update cycle actually takes this into account.

Yup, I remember it being popular in the film/animation industry a zillion years ago. 

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This is great, but also not really so great.

if 80% of the top earners are women .. maybe it's time to be looking at what can be done to get a few more men in the game.

"..but some are more equal than others." <= y'all know the quote.

[Coffee Pancake]

2 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

As much as I loathe Blender and everything about 3D modeling in general, it really came through for people and made design very accessible, I'll say that much. 

Blender is a 2D and animation powerhouse and getting major upgrades in that area at the moment. Counting the days before we can kiss the Adobe tax goodbye.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

5 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Blender is a 2D and animation powerhouse and getting major upgrades in that area at the moment. Counting the days before we can kiss the Adobe tax goodbye.

I don't tinker with animation much anymore (I used to make photography poses and light animations in SL a loooooooooong time ago, pre-bento, with Daz3D mostly), but yeah, Blender has a lot of animation potential, too.

I just personally love the entire Affinity suite. $25 for each program when they go nuts and drop prices 50%. One-time purchase. My only gripe is there's no alternative in there for creating editable PDFs yet, but that's just me being whiny.

Edit: There's no After Effects alternative there either...if that matters to anyone. Right now, it's just Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign equivalents.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Ayashe Ninetails
Added stuffs

[Nalates Urriah]

47 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Don't assume they don't track our every movement .. they just don't sell the data ...

Maybe they don't sell it because the only people interested in buying it are psychology majors and they're all broke.

That "don't assume" a good point. But the people interested in the data are not just the eggheads. The data is used to direct the "collector's" advertising which is sold to advertisers. It is easily obvious to an advertiser if the advertising is working... reaching the people it should. So the claim "we don't sell your data" while likely true is mostly irrelevant to we the collected and manipulated. We still experience targeted advertising. It is just a change in who does the targeting.

I don't really have a problem with targeted advertising. Seeing more ads for feminine products instead or prostate products is NOT a problem for me. The problems comes from when the information is used for political and social manipulation... or said another way, to direct propaganda.

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

At the risk of seeming even thicker than I usually do, are we certain it isn't something simplistic such as:

- More women are generally creative than men

- Women are more likely to have the required creation tools, due to being more creative

- Most fashion / avatar stuff is for women, so women are more likely to "want" to create those things

- Those same things are what sell the most in Second Life, thereby generating the most income

etc.?

I can't explain it, other than to observe that creation in SL is almost entirely intellectual and fairly solitary. In RL, building a skyscraper requires brawn, a lot of old-time expertise in various subjects (architecture, engineering, carpentry, masonry, steelwork, electrical, plumbing) and cooperation amongst large numbers of people. None of that is required to build a skyscraper in SL. The solitary nature of SL creation also means that old-boy and old-girl networks have little sway here.

Curiously, I think it's easier to sew a poodle skirt in RL than to design and rig one in SL.

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

Can a VR headset spy on you?  

https://stealthoptional.com/how-to/does-oculus-quest-2-spy-on-you-how-private-is-the-oculus-quest-2-vr-headset/

[Coffee Pancake]

9 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

That "don't assume" a good point. But the people interested in the data are not just the eggheads. The data is used to direct the "collector's" advertising which is sold to advertisers. It is easily obvious to an advertiser if the advertising is working... reaching the people it should. So the claim "we don't sell your data" while likely true is mostly irrelevant to we the collected and manipulated. We still experience targeted advertising. It is just a change in who does the targeting.

I don't really have a problem with targeted advertising. Seeing more ads for feminine products instead or prostate products is NOT a problem for me. The problems comes from when the information is used for political and social manipulation... or said another way, to direct propaganda.

The collected and compiled data is easily sufficient to link a buyer to your real identity .. and even have reporters show up at your house to congratulate you on your pregnancy.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Coffee Pancake