1 second Orb timing, is it necessary

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I am not sure why 0 seconds is necessary, but on the whole this seems not unreasonable to me. Yes, of course you have the right to restrict entry into your house.

One question I might ask -- how far up above your house does your orb's range extend? Are you potentially and unnecessarily crashing aircraft, who can't see the orb "coming"? How high up does it need to go to ensure privacy?

I usually make sure it's between 1 and 10 meters above my house. As it doesn't need to be restricting access up 4096 meters above me.  I don't think anyone needs to fly really low over my house, I mean IRL you wouldn't see a plane flying really low. So I set it accordingly to what I feel is ample enough space to protect me. I mean I could be a bit of a troll and act like an old lady and have a shotgun on my porch and be like get off my lawn. But I am a kidder and a prankster, so its all in jest. Lol 

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I am not sure why 0 seconds is necessary, but on the whole this seems not unreasonable to me. Yes, of course you have the right to restrict entry into your house.

That's what I do, I take the time to make sure there is ample amount of room to be able to explore. So if you step into that bubble that is around my place, it will send you straight home. I don't see how that is unfair, it allows air travel and sea travel and the occasional bad driver. I'm looking at you @Rowan Amore Lol Jk. But back to the topic. I think that my restrictions into my house are very fair. But I mean everyone is different and will set it differently. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I usually make sure it's between 1 and 10 meters above my house. As it doesn't need to be restricting access up 4096 meters above me.  I don't think anyone needs to fly really low over my house, I mean IRL you wouldn't see a plane flying really low. So I set it accordingly to what I feel is ample enough space to protect me. I mean I could be a bit of a troll and act like an old lady and have a shotgun on my porch and be like get off my lawn. But I am a kidder and a prankster, so its all in jest. Lol 

That seems to me more than reasonable.

This is kind of what I've been trying to get at here . . . we don't need to turn this into a "Visitors go wherever they want" vs. "Put a toe on my land, and get a mouthful of buckshot" sort of debate.

People have spoken here about "courtesy." You are being courteous, in my view. Wanderers who see your house, and don't even try to get in because it's obviously a private residence (that would include me) are also being courteous.

But there seem to be those who think that "courtesy" is best delivered from the muzzle of a shotgun.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra
Typo

[Solar Legion]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, I'm trying to imagine how this looks in practice.

I'm walking through Ciampi (the sim I mentioned). Parts of the sim are fairly obviously "private," but there are parts -- gardens and parkland, mostly -- that are not. Without some form of signage, it's sometimes going to be difficult to tell.

So, what you are suggesting is that . . . I have parcel boundaries turned on? So that I can visibly distinguish parcels? And then, what, check the "land" tab on those to see if they are private or not before I try to enter?

Why would anyone do that? What a horrible visitor experience that would be! And in most of the sims that I visit that are like Ciampi, they actually go to great lengths -- photo contests, events, etc. -- to encourage visitors.

Now, in Ciampi, the orbs all seem to be set to 15 seconds, which is more than adequate time for me to step in, go "oops!" and get out again. But this began with a discussion of orbs set to 0 seconds.

I'm either not understanding what you are saying, which is quite possible, or else this is just an extreme and really really clunky
"solution."

Yeah, it's the not understanding.

There is no need to turn on parcel boundaries nor to check the land tab - by and large, parks and such can be assumed to be meant for the general public (gardens are a bit more iffy). The default is Private, not Public (despite the lack of access restrictions and such).

User owned Public spaces really should not be that hard to distinguish from the default of Private.

If you're holding events and such on an Estate (or Mainland Region wherein you/your group/similar own the whole thing) then that alone ought to be enough of a clue that the average use might just be allowed to go to the majority of the parcels present without incident.

Short duration security systems should not be set to encompass an entire parcel unless there is some reason behind it and usually then only for as long as whatever problem precipitated such is present.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This is kind of what I've been trying to get at here . . . we don't need to turn this into a "Visitors go wherever they want" vs. "Put a toe on my land, and get a mouthful of buckshot" sort of debate.

Be careful, there's the "Catch an Avatar by the Toe!" (Eenie, Meenie, Miney, Moe!)

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Yeah, it's the not understanding.

There is no need to turn on parcel boundaries nor to check the land tab - by and large, parks and such can be assumed to be meant for the general public (gardens are a bit more iffy). The default is Private, not Public (despite the lack of access restrictions and such).

User owned Public spaces really should not be that hard to distinguish from the default of Private.

If you're holding events and such on an Estate (or Mainland Region wherein you/your group/similar own the whole thing) then that alone ought to be enough of a clue that the average use might just be allowed to go to the majority of the parcels present without incident.

Short duration security systems should not be set to encompass an entire parcel unless there is some reason behind it and usually then only for as long as whatever problem precipitated such is present.

I guess? I just think that in practice, it's sometimes not obvious that a particular building -- a farmhouse on a rural sim, for instance -- is private or public. And that's where signage can be helpful.

On a more personal note, I seem to have problems setting my own orb. I have one for my apartment, on the 6th floor of an apartment block in Voroznia, and the default is "no guests." I tried to have Maddy over a week or so ago, but was having a difficult time adding her to the "Guest List," probably because I am generally incompetent.

After watching her plummet 6 floors to her death, twice, outside the window of my apartment, I did finally get it right, however . . .

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Wanderers who see your house, and don't even try to get in because it's obviously a private residence (that would include me) are also being courteous.

Yay! An example of "personal responsibility!"

[Solar Legion]

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I am not sure why 0 seconds is necessary, but on the whole this seems not unreasonable to me. Yes, of course you have the right to restrict entry into your house.

One question I might ask -- how far up above your house does your orb's range extend? Are you potentially and unnecessarily crashing aircraft, who can't see the orb "coming"? How high up does it need to go to ensure privacy?

The idea there is simple: The rest of the parcel is set up to allow one to pass on through - possibly without a single warning - whereas the building itself is a no go zone.

With the way most devices function, setting them up to hug the walls of a building is not exactly easily done and thus there will be empty air caught up in the range. How much depends on how large the scan radius is. by and large though, if you're close enough to trigger the system you are too close in general.

My Mate has a security system set up in her Skybox apartment that hits the entire Apartment but extends a bit above and below it - the sensor is a sphere whereas the Apartment is not. Not on Mainland but the general thought remains the same: If you're running afoul of the scanner, you're too close.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

On a more personal note, I seem to have problems setting my own orb. I have one for my apartment, on the 6th floor of an apartment block in Voroznia, and the default is "no guests." I tried to have Maddy over a week or so ago, but was having a difficult time adding her to the "Guest List," probably because I am generally incompetent.

After watching her plummet 6 floors to her death, twice, outside the window of my apartment, I did finally get it right, however . . .

That definitely sounds like a "Maddy story!"

[Solar Legion]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I guess? I just think that in practice, it's sometimes not obvious that a particular building -- a farmhouse on a rural sim, for instance -- is private or public. And that's where signage can be helpful.

On a more personal note, I seem to have problems setting my own orb. I have one for my apartment, on the 6th floor of an apartment block in Voroznia, and the default is "no guests." I tried to have Maddy over a week or so ago, but was having a difficult time adding her to the "Guest List," probably because I am generally incompetent.

After watching her plummet 6 floors to her death, twice, outside the window of my apartment, I did finally get it right, however . . .

Signage is only helpful to those able to see it (meaning that if the sign is at road level, someone overflying cannot see it).

Unless part of the region's general decor, such a farmhouse should be treated as Private.

As for the trouble with your security system ... Things like that are why I don't personally arm mine until I am certain I have it set up correctly - usually asking a friend to be the tester.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Signage is only helpful to those able to see it (meaning that if the sign is at road level, someone overflying cannot see it).

Hmm..could always script a system that sends a message letting observers know the sim's privacy level and status.

That's like a "sign"..but would probably be taken as spammy.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:

Unless part of the region's general decor

Determining that is sometimes not so easy. I have certainly known sims -- again, rural ones mostly -- where there are both public "model" farmhouses to explore, and private residences. The visitor's welcome note will often mention this -- but without signage, it's not evident on the ground. And that's also maybe why some delay longer than 5 seconds is good. If the orb hugs the house closely, 5 seconds, in fact, may be all that is needed.

You're right, of course, about signage in the air. Which is why I don't think orbs should be set for an unnecessarily high altitude. Surely a couple of hundred feet above the house is more than adequate?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

That definitely sounds like a "Maddy story!"

Maddy, surprisingly, didn't use it as an excuse to recount again her favourite story about me sending visitors to an exhibit falling 600m.

I'm sure she'll make good on that there, later, though . . . 🙄

[Katherine Heartsong]

12 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

With the way most devices function, setting them up to hug the walls of a building is not exactly easily done and thus there will be empty air caught up in the range. How much depends on how large the scan radius is. by and large though, if you're close enough to trigger the system you are too close in general.

There are "box" security systems available on the MP that allows you to set a rectangular object as the security shape around a home and edit/stretch the sides to fit nearly any rectangle you want. You can use multiple ones to make really elaborate shapes. They also have good rules and settings, including visibility and textures. The default "orbs" I found are crappy if you want precise shapes.

That sort of thing allows for exploration of your parcel, but not anything inside the defined shape; i.e., a home.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Katherine Heartsong

[Solar Legion]

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Determining that is sometimes not so easy. I have certainly known sims -- again, rural ones mostly -- where there are both public "model" farmhouses to explore, and private residences. The visitor's welcome note will often mention this -- but without signage, it's not evident on the ground. And that's also maybe why some delay longer than 5 seconds is good. If the orb hugs the house closely, 5 seconds, in fact, may be all that is needed.

You're right, of course, about signage in the air. Which is why I don't think orbs should be set for an unnecessarily high altitude. Surely a couple of hundred feet above the house is more than adequate?

Now see, doing as you've described with the "model" types being used elsewhere as actual homes really shouldn't be done - not in the same Region anyway. The original Linden Homes regions had a showcase segment wherein you could view the different options. Would this be tedious or a big ask/extra expense? Yes, sadly. Having the Public models (meant to be explored) elsewhere though, is probably for the best, in lieu of other methods.

5 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

There are "box" security systems available on the MP that allows you to set a rectangular object as the security shape around a home and edit/stretch the sides to fit nearly any rectangle you want. You can use multiple ones to make really elaborate shapes. They also have good rules and settings, including visibility and textures. The default "orbs" I found are crappy if you want precise shapes.

That sort of thing allows for exploration of your parcel, but not anything inside the defined shape; i.e., a home.

I'll have to do a bit of looking for such then.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

13 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

There are "box" security systems available on the MP that allows you to set a rectangular object as the security shape around a home and edit/stretch the sides to fit nearly any rectangle you want. You can use multiple ones to make really elaborate shapes. They also have good rules and settings, including visibility and textures. The default "orbs" I found are crappy if you want precise shapes.

That sort of thing allows for exploration of your parcel, but not anything inside the defined shape; i.e., a home.

I suspect that this is what is employed in my apartment, as the range of it seems quite precise, and there are other tenants all around me.

[Sammy Huntsman]

But there are a few people that want LL to have control over what people do when it comes to security on their piece of land. Like basically preapproved orb times and that kind schtick. But what I think should happen is entirely different. People should have the choice to set their orbs or security however they want. Again as I said, that would be like having the government control what we do in our own private homes, down to how we set our security or what we use for security. That would be highly uncalled for. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

Let me just add this for context, not everyone is gonna be lenient with people coming on their land. As they have dealt with previous issues, that may have made them harder to trust and harder to just let anyone in. We don't know their story, so people who are saying they should set it a certain way. Maybe ask why they do? Realize they aren't trying to annoy or hurt or grieve you. They just want their absolute privacy. 

[Codex Alpha]

24 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

 Realize they aren't trying to annoy or hurt or grieve you.

This should be the base assumption of all Second Lifers, and to make decisions based on this, and balancing the need for security and privacy with respecting others enjoyment of the platform and to use security measures (or any object that might disrupt others) in accordance to this.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Codex Alpha said:

This should be the base assumption of all Second Lifers, and to make decisions based on this, and balancing the need for security and privacy with respecting others enjoyment of the platform and to use security measures (or any object that might disrupt others) in accordance to this.

But if you step on someone's property on accident, if they have the strict orb rules. Should you be able to enjoy it unhindered? Or should they have a right to kick you back home? I mean I would say the second one, as I mean once you step into that threshold. You are taking a risk and guess what part of that risk is to deal with the consequences. So if someone isn't so lenient and decides they want to be strict and firm on their security and privacy. That is their right. You shouldn't have a say on how that goes. I am sorry but that is the way things are. But what you are saying is that Lindens should have overarching control on orbs and set regulations, that just make explorers happy. It doesn't take into account the person who owns the orb. Tell me how is that fair? 

[Gabriele Graves]

So, how are we doing team?  What's the half time score?

[Aethelwine]

53 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Let me just add this for context, not everyone is gonna be lenient with people coming on their land. As they have dealt with previous issues, that may have made them harder to trust and harder to just let anyone in. We don't know their story, so people who are saying they should set it a certain way. Maybe ask why they do? Realize they aren't trying to annoy or hurt or grieve you. They just want their absolute privacy. 

Stopping fliers from travelling overhead with a sudden ejection orb, is going to attract attention. It is counter productive. 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

14 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

So, how are we doing team?  What's the half time score?

Still only 1.5 people asking for security changes. We are clearly ahead, it's going to be a solid win!

[Ceka Cianci]

14 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

So, how are we doing team?  What's the half time score?

The score is, Cheesecake!

[Theresa Tennyson]

23 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

But if you step on someone's property on accident, if they have the strict orb rules. Should you be able to enjoy it unhindered?

Heaven forfend someone enjoys an accident...