Elon Musk buys Twitter to bring back Free Speech

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Free speech has to be respectful.

If it isn't it will, conversation will quickly degrade into the disparaging, vitriolic mess that is all too common here and elsewhere.

"Fascist" is, again, the literal definition of what I am describing. I ascribe it to neither side, nor to any individuals: it is a tendency that I see expressed in this thread and elsewhere.

If you chose to apply it to yourself or someone else, you take responsibility for that yourself: I have not done so.

If you disagree with my characterization, or don't see it, as I do, being articulated here, then you should debate me on that score.

But civil discourse involves respecting the right of others to express themselves and their views. It does not entail censoring what one sees. We can't debate intelligently unless you understand my perspective. And I'm not going to "pretend" that something as important as this isn't happening here because it might "upset" some people.

[Luna Bliss]

8 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

22 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Scylla said some people on this thread are advocating fascism.  That's simply the truth. And you don't have to be aware that's what you're doing for this to apply.

It's up to you if you are one who is doing this and choose to feel hurt by it.

Hmmm... There is a middle ground here, yet you seem to be making the argument - which I am strongly opposed to - that it is OK to shame, disparage or name call someone because you feel like it and choose to disregard how the target person may handle it. 

This is not name-calling in any way.
Fascism is simply a description of one way people sort out power in a society -- who gets what and how. I'm against allowing only a few people, most especially unelected ones, having most of the power -- this centralization of power is dangerous. I believe in democracy where as many people as possible have a say in who gets what in our world.  

[Eirynne Sieyes]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But civil discourse involves respecting the right of others to express themselves and their views. It does not entail censoring what one sees. We can't debate intelligently unless you understand my perspective. And I'm not going to "pretend" that something as important as this isn't happening here because it might "upset" some people.

Nothing wrong in my book with upsetting people. A good debate will upset some people.

However, it might benefit all of us if we could shoot for a more respectful and perhaps considerate tone.

[Love Zhaoying]

Most interesting info in the thread: repeated notification of the totally true, acknowledged by the NYT story of Biden's son's laptop. Also the most irrelevant. But we should count how many times people assert something is totally true, because don't totally true things always need to be asserted over and over and over?
 

Because totally true things have to be emphasized, as not just true, but totally true. If we didn't know they weren't just true, but in fact totally true, we would miss the important distinctions of truth. There's "truth", then there's "totally true".  

The most honest people - be it politicians, lawyers, what-have-you, always make sure to add "totally" when describing things that are true. Didn't you notice that? It's totally true!

[Luna Bliss]

10 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But civil discourse involves respecting the right of others to express themselves and their views. It does not entail censoring what one sees. We can't debate intelligently unless you understand my perspective. And I'm not going to "pretend" that something as important as this isn't happening here because it might "upset" some people.

Nothing wrong in my book with upsetting people. A good debate will upset some people.

However, it might benefit all of us if we could shoot for a more respectful and perhaps considerate tone.

To shoot for a more respectful and considerate tone with this particular issue one would need to have been inconsiderate and disrespectful,  Nobody has.

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Most interesting info in the thread: repeated notification of the totally true, acknowledged by the NYT story of Biden's son's laptop. Also the most irrelevant. But we should count how many times people assert something is totally true, because don't totally true things always need to be asserted over and over and over?
 

Because totally true things have to be emphasized, as not just true, but totally true. If we didn't know they weren't just true, but in fact totally true, we would miss the important distinctions of truth. There's "truth", then there's "totally true".  

The most honest people - be it politicians, lawyers, what-have-you, always make sure to add "totally" when describing things that are true. Didn't you notice that? It's totally true!

Like! Totally awesome!

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Like! Totally awesome!

Black Robert Downey Jr. is totally true!

I think you understand me!

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Black Robert Downey Jr. is totally true!

I think you understand me!

Um... ok... if you say so. I don't even understand myself at times. 😊

[Eirynne Sieyes]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

To shoot for a more respectful and considerate tone with this particular issue one would need to have been inconsiderate and disrespectful,  Nobody has.

Lol! What prompted me to start this sub-discussion around page 19 was the vitriol and hate speech in many of the posts, mostly attached to political ideology.

The thread has cleaned up quite a bit. Seems that talking about it has resulted in more mindful posting.

Yay for us!

 

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Lol! What prompted me to start this sub-discussion around page 19 was the vitriol and hate speech in many of the posts, mostly attached to political ideology.

The thread has cleaned up quite a bit. Seems that talking about it has resulted in more mindful posting.

Yay for us!

 

We aim to please! 
 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

20 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Like! Totally awesome!

You rang?

I'm kidding. Don't get me started on that again,  LOL.

[Silent Mistwalker]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

We aim to please! 
 

I gave it up for Lint. 

Pocket lint.

[Solar Legion]

"Free speech" as bandied about by some here is by no means forcibly kept respectful (or derivatives).

These fora are kept artificially "respectful".

Do not pretend otherwise. Do not pretend that such is a good thing.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Solar Legion
Spelling Correction

[Eirynne Sieyes]

27 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

"Free speech" as bandied about by some here is by no means forcibly kept respectful (or derivatives).

These fora are kept artificially "respectful".

Do not pretend otherwise. Do not pretend that such is a good thing.

Pretend? Heck no! 

If you think I mean that we have to pretend in order to remain civil, I am saddened.  I am referring to resisting the urge to hastily post emotionally laden content (because it feels good) without taking the time to reflect on what will be said in hot-button topics.

Hopefully we are misunderstanding one another. 

[Solar Legion]

7 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Pretend? Heck no! 

If you think I mean that we have to pretend in order to remain civil, I am saddened.  I am referring to resisting the urge to hastily post emotionally laden content (because it feels good) without taking the time to reflect on what will be said in hot-button topics.

Hopefully we are misunderstanding one another. 

If you think that taking the time to weigh what you are typing is being "respectful" then we are speaking of two wholly different things.

If you think that being civil in any capacity is a requirement ... we will not see eye to eye on this whatsoever.

Some of what you are seeing and praising is "pretend" - users having to "bite their tongues" as it were and respond in a manner which will ensure no action is taken on their post(s).

[Rowan Amore]

It had nothing whatsoever to do with anyone saying ' let's be more civil' and more to do with ' no sense talking to a brick wall on a beautiful Sunday'.  Let's not delude ourselves.

[Eirynne Sieyes]

41 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

If you think that taking the time to weigh what you are typing is being "respectful" then we are speaking of two wholly different things.

If you think that being civil in any capacity is a requirement ... we will not see eye to eye on this whatsoever.

Some of what you are seeing and praising is "pretend" - users having to "bite their tongues" as it were and respond in a manner which will ensure no action is taken on their post(s).

Suffice it to say that we don't share the same values.

[Love Zhaoying]

I've learned a lot from this thread:

- Elon Musk is a great guy who is only looking out for all of our interests.

- Twitter will be a platform for freedom of speech.

- Everything posted on Twitter will be totally true.

What did I leave out?

[Innula Zenovka]

51 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

If you think that taking the time to weigh what you are typing is being "respectful" then we are speaking of two wholly different things.

If you think that being civil in any capacity is a requirement ... we will not see eye to eye on this whatsoever.

Some of what you are seeing and praising is "pretend" - users having to "bite their tongues" as it were and respond in a manner which will ensure no action is taken on their post(s).

Perhaps  because I'm a Brit of a certain age and background, I consider civility an important obligation, and particularly in a public forum.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

What did I leave out?

You left out a little goat that should be running through your house whenever you log on to Twitter...

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

You left out a little goat that should be running through your house whenever you log on to Twitter...

My huskies act very much like goats. Fainting goats, at times.

[Solar Legion]

1 hour ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Suffice it to say that we don't share the same values.

That's nice.

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Perhaps  because I'm a Brit of a certain age and background, I consider civility an important obligation, and particularly in a public forum.

That is - also - nice.

[Aethelwine]

2 hours ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Pretend? Heck no! 

If you think I mean that we have to pretend in order to remain civil, I am saddened.  I am referring to resisting the urge to hastily post emotionally laden content (because it feels good) without taking the time to reflect on what will be said in hot-button topics.

Hopefully we are misunderstanding one another. 

Isn't that what this whole thread has been about. In particular, Elon Musk's lack of self control and abusive posting on twitter and the concerns from those groups he has targeted that he will be more tolerant to abusive posting if the deal goes through?

[Eirynne Sieyes]

1 hour ago, Aethelwine said:

Isn't that what this whole thread has been about. In particular, Elon Musk's lack of self control and abusive posting on twitter and the concerns from those groups he has targeted that he will be more tolerant to abusive posting if the deal goes through?

No. Though some seem to have misunderstood it that way.

[Blaise Glendevon]

19 hours ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

I agree with the point he's making... Thought that was obvious as to why i would post that... 

I wouldn't admit to agreeing with Steven Crowder on the color of the sky. Maybe you should reevaluate your beliefs.