Requesting an LGBTQ+ sub forum.

[Persephone Emerald]

2 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I'm making an assumption here, but Persephone could've been referring to SL-related concerns. Specifically, getting assistance with non-standard avatars and mods that can be a pain to work with. Or finding stores in general. Discussing in-world events or finding groups or sims or somesuch. Your Discord suggestion is a decent one, and I've spoken with Coffee about that already, but there is the risk that it would further fragment the community (much like how many don't know there's a Lelutka Discord channel and find it difficult to seek help in-world as the group's shut down these days).

Yes, I was. Thank you. I want people who have questions and concerns regarding their use of SL to have clear places within the control of Linden Lab where they can go to get answers and help. Sending people away from these forums to get support for issues they have with SL or in SL seems counter-productive to me. 

I understand why many groups now favor using Discord over the SL inworld Groups, but I don't like it. I don't want to be forced to use yet another social media site in order to discuss inworld issues. If I want to chat about SL stuff, I'd rather have that be inworld or on these forums.

[Solo Alpha]

13 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Emphasis mine. Quick question for you - do you feel this same way regarding LL's announcement about the new "in-depth" community pages they're intending to build?

As one who never objected to the creation to said subsection here, but questioned it' s motivation : so what is requested for is eventually coming anyway if forum sections are adapted to these community-pages by LL themselves ? 

Do I understand correctly ? 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Solo Alpha

[Coffee Pancake]

The migration to discord is a net loss for SL. Ends up being that SL is just the place some of the people in the groups met and being able to stay in touch there negates the need to be in SL as much. This has been especially true of family and RP based groups who migrate and then downsize.

Sansar's own discord kind of became the poster child for this effect, there were always more people active and chatting in the discord group than actually logged into Sansar.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

6 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Yes, I was. Thank you. I want people who have questions and concerns regarding their use of SL to have clear places within the control of Linden Lab where they can go to get answers and help. Sending people away from these forums to get support for issues they have with SL or in SL seems counter-productive to me. 

I understand why many groups now favor using Discord over the SL inworld Groups, but I don't like it. I don't want to be forced to use yet another social media site in order to discuss inworld issues. If I want to chat about SL stuff, I'd rather have that be inworld or on these forums.

Exactly - and this was pretty much what we agreed upon when I tossed the idea out there. It's cumbersome and would exclude too many. Grrrrr, if only in-world groups weren't still broken! 

 

Just now, Solo Alpha said:

As one who never objected to the creation to said subsection here, but it' s motivation : so what is requested for is eventually coming anyway if forum sections are adapted to these community-pages by LL themselves ? 

Do I understand correctly ? 

Nope, LL never mentioned plans for the forum itself. I was just thinking out loud (you can see my post on Page 2 if you want to take a peek) that since they're going ahead with the community pages anyway, they could take Coffee's suggestion into consideration and roll it into that same project. IF LL agreed with the suggestion in the first place, of course.

[Persephone Emerald]

59 minutes ago, Moondira said:

What do you propose as the new names for those who attempted to overthrow our government on Jan 6 after losing the election?  

This is completely off-topic, Moondira. As I don't recall seeing you posting other comments on this thread, I assume you're trying to drag off-topic politics into it to try to get it closed. I for one am not taking the bait.  

[Moondira]

2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

1 hour ago, Moondira said:

What do you propose as the new names for those who attempted to overthrow our government on Jan 6 after losing the election?  

This is completely off-topic, Moondira. As I don't recall seeing you posting other comments on this thread, I assume you're trying to drag off-topic politics into it to try to get it closed. I for one am not taking the bait.  

I was responding to Entity who first mentioned terrorists and government overthrowers and how they were being called names unfairly. I was sarcastically replying, "well what exactly should we call them"?

Don't assume things you don't understand.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, entity0x said:

What is Brigading?

“Brigading” is a term that originated on Reddit for a coordinated attack by a group of users of an antagonistic subreddit (forum dedicated to a particular topic). The brigade would privately agree to “downvote” comments, either on a random or targeted basis, to deprioritise them in users’ feeds and effectively censor them. The meaning of the term expanded to cover all coordinated voting behaviour to make something or someone seem more or less popular than they actually are, and now it means all coordinated abusive engagement behaviour online. This engagement can come in the form of retweets, comments, quote retweets, email campaigns and more.

As is many, many other accusations and claims made by individuals on multiple Virtual World platforms in the last few years, many of them are either used out of turn, misunderstood, misrepresented, exaggerated, and even completely fabricated to support a narrative that an individual (or group) is the target of some organized oppression - which for SL and others is MOSTLY FALSE.

I personally don't have an issue of you being happy in SL and getting the support you need to be happy in SL, but I do have a problem with how it goes down - anyone who disagrees keeps getting painted in a negative (and inaccurate) light.

It needs to stop. Just like calling other people names here or using derogatory terms against others is against the TOS and against civil discussion - so should be the framing of other individuals or groups to be 'hostile, aggressive, trolls, brigadiers' (and in recent RL events) 'terrorists, government overthrowers, grandma-killers, uncaring, evil, selfish, yahoos,', etc.

It may not qualify as hate speech, but it certainly is an uncivil, unfair and nasty way to describe others.

I would like to see less of this here and MORE addressing of the points people made.

Thank you for explaining the term brigading. I was not familiar with it. 

What you seem to be addressing sounds rather like when people complain of being "canceled" because others are openly criticizing them. Is this a correct understanding? Someone says something some other people don't like, so then those other people jump all over them and try to show publicly that they're wrong or stupid or vile in some way. If their efforts are then successful in getting said person removed from some virtual space - such as a TV show - or being blacklisted in other ways, the person who initially said or did something that the others deemed unacceptable complains that they've been "canceled".

This is of course very disturbing for the person who's forced off the platform they used to enjoy, but it's not technically a freedom of speech issue as long as the government is not jailing or censoring them.

[Moondira]

Why did you laugh, Persephone?  It has me wondering, are you in the States?  There are two instances of those overthrowing the government here in the States. The Civil War and the Jan 6 incident at the Capitol.  Should I have assumed the Civil War instead?

Pointing this out, and the fact that someone feels we should not call such people names, is revealing in some ways I would imagine.

[Coffee Pancake]

• Really off topic
• Politics are prohibited by the community standards.
• We already had a debate over laugh emojis.

If you really want to have this debate, there is a whole general forum, best of luck.

[Solar Legion]

Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

• Really off topic
• Politics are prohibited by the community standards.
• We already had a debate over laugh emojis.

If you really want to have this debate, there is a whole general forum, best of luck.

Considering the nature of that one (and of a few of the others) the intent is clear enough, despite the faux innocence.

[So Whimsy]

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Do you understand that there's a different connotation to being proud vs. being prideful?

I think this might be a language barrier thing as we do not distinguish between the two in german. You're either proud of something here, or you're well...not.

[Moondira]

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

• Really off topic
• Politics are prohibited by the community standards.
• We already had a debate over laugh emojis.

If you really want to have this debate, there is a whole general forum, best of luck.

I have no desire to discuss politics whatsoever. I was only responding to a comment by a poster accusing me of something I was not doing, and then defending myself as to why I said what it did.  I have no desire to discuss politics or derail the thread, but I will defend an inaccurate description of me.

Please, consider the topic closed.

[Persephone Emerald]

42 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Emphasis mine. Quick question for you - do you feel this same way regarding LL's announcement about the new "in-depth" community pages they're intending to build?

The reason I ask is I'm not particularly fond of that idea myself (as I mentioned in the thread that popped up to discuss it last month), howeeeeeeever, I do feel that if LL is going to go ahead with that project (which seems likely as the first page is already done), it's really not too far a leap (IMO) to add a new community-focused sub forum to accompany it. The focus could be the very same thing they're putting into the pages they're creating (businesses, the art scene, events, etc.). I mentioned early on in this thread that that's my reasoning behind supporting Coffee's idea.

I support the creation of a Communities sub-forum, maybe even as a replacement for Lifestyles and Relationships.  Maybe we need one sub-forum for Communities and one for Romance and Relationships? Then LGBTQ+ issues won't have to be considered just those of one's "lifestyle", the BDSM community can be included, as well as any other self-identified communities, and we can still get our drama fix from the Romance and Relationships sub-forum. 

[Persephone Emerald]

Just now, So Whimsy said:

I think this might be a language barrier thing as we do not distinguish between the two in german. You're either proud of something here, or you're well...not.

I was asking because I didn't know if you were making the connotation that I inferred with the use of the word "prideful". I did not know that English is not your first language. In English to be proud generally has a positive connotation, while being prideful has more of a meaning like having hubris, but with a particular Christian flavor. To say someone is prideful is like saying they should be more humble and submissive, or else they risk the wrath of a punishing God.

[So Whimsy]

6 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I was asking because I didn't know if you were making the connotation that I inferred with the use of the word "prideful". I did not know that English is not your first language. In English to be proud generally has a positive connotation, while being prideful has more of a meaning like having hubris, but with a particular Christian flavor. To say someone is prideful is like saying they should be more humble and submissive, or else they risk the wrath of a punishing God.

I see, thank you for explaining that, another new thing I learned in this thread

We do have a few words for things that don't exist in english (i.e. Doppelgänger) but we also lack some (i.e. we have a word for luck, but we do not have a word for lucky. We have ways to describe being lucky but not one single word.) Add to that different connotations and there's so much left to learn even after 15+ years of trying to better my english. It also makes it easy for people to get my posts the wrong way and they do at times. Still, I like posting in this forum and I'm trying my best to be cohesive x3

Edited April 17, 2022 by So Whimsy

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I support the creation of a Communities sub-forum, maybe even as a replacement for Lifestyles and Relationships.  Maybe we need one sub-forum for Communities and one for Romance and Relationships? Then LGBTQ+ issues won't have to be considered just those of one's "lifestyle", the BDSM community can be included, as well as any other self-identified communities, and we can still get our drama fix from the Romance and Relationships sub-forum. 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you're suggesting LL put the LGBTQ+ and BDSM communities under the same Community sub forum and then separate out relationships/romance on its own? It would amaze me to nooooo ennnd if LL made a whole community page for the BDSM community. 😂 IF they did that, then...maybe? Lol.

I don't want to jump too deeply into what other communities LL could fit in a proposed sub forum until we know what the next community page will be - right now we only have the Black Community page to go by, and it depends if they're going to keep things cultural or do something for Pride month or give a nod to the roleplay communities or furries or artists or ... sailing. We don't really know what direction that's all going in yet, so I don't want to speculate too much. I just tossed the idea of a community sub forum out there as a general idea in case LL was looking for a way to tie in that forum addition.

[Persephone Emerald]

37 minutes ago, Moondira said:

I was responding to Entity who first mentioned terrorists and government overthrowers and how they were being called names unfairly. I was sarcastically replying, "well what exactly should we call them"?

Don't assume things you don't understand.

 

18 minutes ago, Moondira said:

Why did you laugh, Persephone?  It has me wondering, are you in the States?  There are two instances of those overthrowing the government here in the States. The Civil War and the Jan 6 incident at the Capitol.  Should I have assumed the Civil War instead?

Pointing this out, and the fact that someone feels we should not call such people names, is revealing in some ways I would imagine.

Emojis can have a variety of meanings, as our humorous thread on this subject pointed out. Not to reopen a sore wound, but I would like to explain my emoji response to your post.

I laughed because 1. I thought you were being disingenuous in your reply, and 2. I thought you were attempting to insult my intelligence.  Also, if people on a thread misunderstand what you intended to say, it's kind of on you to explain yourself, or else assume their perspective is not important to you or to the thread in general.

I do often ignore posters who I think are not worth my time to engage with more thoroughly, but I don't often just insult them in text and then leave them hanging, wondering why they were insulted. I consider emojis vague enough in their meaning that the poster may be confused as to why I used that particular emoji, but it's not necessarily an insult to them. More often it's just me choosing the closest simple symbol I can think of for a rather complex and perhaps even contradictory reaction to what I've just read.

[Luna Bliss]

13 minutes ago, So Whimsy said:

Add to that different connotations and there's so much left to learn even after 15+ years of trying to better my english. It also makes it easy for people to get my posts the wrong way and they do at times. Still, I like posting in this forum and I'm trying my best to be cohesive x3

You are doing so well -- it would not be easy for most to notice you're not a native English speaker.

Pride vs prideful is quite confusing, even for the native English speaker.

I remember when the issue was last discussed on the forum, in the context of gay pride. Someone told a gay man that if society changed and was not prejudiced against gays anymore then it would be wrong for a gay person to say they were proud of being gay. He left the forum over it and never came back

[Love Zhaoying]

I think the proposed subforum would benefit if there were moderation specifically for sock-puppetry.

[Codex Alpha]

1 hour ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Emphasis mine. Quick question for you - do you feel this same way regarding LL's announcement about the new "in-depth" community pages they're intending to build?

The reason I ask is I'm not particularly fond of that idea myself (as I mentioned in the thread that popped up to discuss it last month), howeeeeeeever, I do feel that if LL is going to go ahead with that project (which seems likely as the first page is already done), it's really not too far a leap (IMO) to add a new community-focused sub forum to accompany it. The focus could be the very same thing they're putting into the pages they're creating (businesses, the art scene, events, etc.). I mentioned early on in this thread that that's my reasoning behind supporting Coffee's idea.

I'm fine if it is directly related to Second Life and the aspects of building, scripting, selling, creating, building worlds, etc. I'm not educated yet on what 'in-depth' community pages means quite yet. Gotta link to it specifically so I can verse up on it?

 I'm fine with topics that go a bit off, but in forums or platforms where they get too diverse with their topics or unrelated, dilutes it and I just leave or stop participating. I feel this is already served by General or Lifestyles.

If a platform goes too far off topic, or starts adding a Cooking forum, etc way off the intent of the original reason to be there, I tend to stop using it.

I am NOT interested in Second Life expanding into some political or social justice movement platform.

Edited April 17, 2022 by entity0x

[Silent Mistwalker]

The word brigade has been around lot longer than Reddit or the internet.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Oh btw, @Persephone Emerald, I'm definitely not laughing at your suggestion. The visual of LL struggling to make that community page as G-rated as possible popped into my head and cracked me right up. 🤣 They'd need some good copywriters to pull that one off, lol.

[Codex Alpha]

2 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

The word brigade has been around lot longer than Reddit or the internet.

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, entity0x said:

I'm fine if it is directly related to Second Life and the aspects of building, scripting, selling, creating, building worlds, etc. I'm not educated yet on what 'in-depth' community pages means quite yet.

 I'm fine with topics that go a bit off, but in forums or platforms where they get too diverse with their topics or unrelated, dilutes it and I just leave or stop participating. I feel this is already served by General or Lifestyles.

If a platform goes too far off topic, or starts adding a Cooking forum, etc way off the intent of the original reason to be there, I tend to stop using it.

That's fair.

I'm not sure if you've seen it yet, but here's LL's announcement and their first page, which I referenced in my first post on Page 2 - 

LL's blog post announcing the feature

The actual community page they posted

[Persephone Emerald]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think the proposed subforum would benefit if there were moderation specifically for sock-puppetry.

I think that's a charming if somewhat naïve expectation. I love the concept of sock-puppetry of the forums. I keep wanting to post memes of sock puppets when I suspect one has just posted, but I honestly don't know when a poster is a sock-puppet or not, and I doubt the moderators would be able to tell clearly either. Imagine the conflict if someone says Person A's sock-puppet response was removed, but Person B's sock-puppet's response was allowed to stay. See how the moderators are favoring one person over another!