Furholio Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Why you need to restart the viewer after disconnection from the grid (for whatever reason)? what makes it impossible (or undesirable) to add a simple Reconnect button, or even better, an auto reconnect function? just wondering ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Monty Linden Posted February 24, 2022 Lindens Share Posted February 24, 2022 Hahaha. It's long been desired. Short answer: it's work to implement. Viewer evolved without a reset-to-initialized transition and putting one in now would take some archaeology. But there's no technical barrier. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 We (Catznip) haven't bothered doing it as the viewer just runs better if it's restarted every now and again. I get it's an inconvenience to have to close the client and restart it, but that's less inconvenient that the client randomly crashing at some point during an extended session. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furholio Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 Well i don't want to run the viewer for days, but since I tele-crash a lot more in the last recent weeks (for whatever reason) I wish reconnecting was less of a hassle ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Beauchamp Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) It would be even better if the servers (and viewers, since it would involve a protocol/data exchange between them and the grid) had a fallback mechanism for failed TPs or sim restarts, like automatically teleporting your avatar in a safe place (with the proper maturity rating, corresponding to the one of the region you were trying to TP to or were logged in before the restart), just like what happens when you try and log in in a region which is currently down. There is no reason for being disconnected at all from the grid as long as the network is not the cause for the sim connection loss... Edited February 25, 2022 by Henri Beauchamp 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardy Lay Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Make it a reliable handshake protocol. If I don't show up intact at the destination tell the origin to retransmit the missing parts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmoe Whitfield Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 26 minutes ago, Ardy Lay said: Make it a reliable handshake protocol. If I don't show up intact at the destination tell the origin to retransmit the missing parts. as long as I dont get paws up my butt on teleport like the old days. this would be a good thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 4 hours ago, Henri Beauchamp said: It would be even better if the servers (and viewers, since it would involve a protocol/data exchange between them and the grid) had a fallback mechanism for failed TPs ... A more robust system that didn't leave the client hanging for a TP fail has been desperately needed since day one. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 An honest answer for once. "Because it's hard work." We just can't have LL doing any of that around here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furholio Posted February 27, 2022 Author Share Posted February 27, 2022 On 2/26/2022 at 1:03 AM, Ardy Lay said: Make it a reliable handshake protocol. If I don't show up intact at the destination tell the origin to retransmit the missing parts. Or how about a "limbo-mode" where no connection to a sim is required at all, but you still have access to your IM sessions , receive group messages, ... ok ok i better stop, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profaitchikenz Haiku Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 On 2/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Coffee Pancake said: A more robust system that didn't leave the client hanging for a TP fail It's interesting you should say "robust", because for the past 9 months I've been exploring the "other" grids and have not once had a TP crash-to-desktop. Plenty of "destination cannot be found", but never a fail with a crash to desktop. It could of course be the sparse population that gives a less onerous environment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Beauchamp Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said: and have not once had a TP crash-to-desktop. If you crash to desktop (i.e. the viewer actually crashes and vanishes all of a sudden), then it is a viewer bug !... When a TP fails, you may get disconnected, but the viewer should stay up and running (with the 3D view frozen and greyed out), alert you about the disconnection and let you the choice between closing the session or continuing to read IMs, notifications, chat and anything you have not yet read. If you actually crash, then please report that crash to the viewer developer(s team), with the crash info (logs, crash dump, etc)... Edited February 27, 2022 by Henri Beauchamp 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 10 hours ago, Henri Beauchamp said: If you actually crash, then please report that crash to the viewer developer(s team), with the crash info (logs, crash dump, etc)... THIS ^^ Especially if you can crash a viewer over and over by doing the same thing .. that kind of bug can be traded in for a pony. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfie Reanimator Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 17 hours ago, Furholio said: Or how about a "limbo-mode" where no connection to a sim is required at all, but you still have access to your IM sessions , receive group messages, ... ok ok i better stop, lol For what it's worth, your IMs are still functional while you're stuck in a teleport and you know it's guaranteed to log you out. You can send/receive IMs up until the moment you get logged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Corvinus Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 On 2/27/2022 at 9:55 PM, Coffee Pancake said: THIS ^^ Especially if you can crash a viewer over and over by doing the same thing .. that kind of bug can be traded in for a pony. Or, you know, the work to fix it might be too hard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 3 hours ago, Chris Nova said: Or, you know, the work to fix it might be too hard. Repeatable bugs are the easy bugs, they take no time at all to fix and generally aren't hard once a dev has a reproduction. Think baking a cake that comes out tasting funny, and the recipe explicitly says to add anchovies. Intermittent bugs that exist at the intersection of 2 or (many) more conditions are the hard bugs. We're making a fish pie, the only ingredients are fish, we have checked all the fish to be fish and are now interviewing the guy who painted the name on the boat that catches the fish. The solution will likely involve the precession of venus, janitors named john and 3 kinds of magic that when combined in exactly the right order, on a Tuesday, turn one of the fish into a pumpkin resulting in shoes up your avatars butt. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said: Repeatable bugs are the easy bugs, they take no time at all to fix and generally aren't hard once a dev has a reproduction. Think baking a cake that comes out tasting funny, and the recipe explicitly says to add anchovies. Intermittent bugs that exist at the intersection of 2 or (many) more conditions are the hard bugs. We're making a fish pie, the only ingredients are fish, we have checked all the fish to be fish and are now interviewing the guy who painted the name on the boat that catches the fish. The solution will likely involve the precession of venus, janitors named john and 3 kinds of magic that when combined in exactly the right order, on a Tuesday, turn one of the fish into a pumpkin resulting in shoes up your avatars butt. Will it make you feel all warm and fuzzy to know that, in the design of things like defibrillators and patient monitors (and apparently 737 Max aircraft), debugging works pretty much as you've described? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 12 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Will it make you feel all warm and fuzzy to know that, in the design of things like defibrillators and patient monitors (and apparently 737 Max aircraft), debugging works pretty much as you've described? I live in that rabbit hole, I better be feeling all warm and fuzzy !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardy Lay Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said: Intermittent bugs that exist at the intersection of 2 or (many) more conditions are the hard bugs. We're making a fish pie, the only ingredients are fish, we have checked all the fish to be fish and are now interviewing the guy who painted the name on the boat that catches the fish. The solution will likely involve the precession of venus, janitors named john and 3 kinds of magic that when combined in exactly the right order, on a Tuesday, turn one of the fish into a pumpkin resulting in shoes up your avatars butt. Computer Science is often stated as doing the same thing over and over and getting various different results. Here you have explained by example that some variables are not being properly controlled when iterating through the process. Probably why I was taught to stress test the variability out of the hardware being used to test the software. Eliminate all unknown variables in the hardware and most of the apparent randomness in the software run results vanish. For example, compilers do not produce object code containing invalid op-codes. If you get an invalid op-code at run-time, chances are it was caused by a hardware malfunction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Thanks for reminding me I really do need to stop putting off buying an actual grown up silly scope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: Thanks for reminding me I really do need to stop putting off buying an actual grown up silly scope I never (okay, rarely?) leave home without one...https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Handheld-Pocket-Sized-Oscilloscope-Channels/dp/B07JQ3HRMX/ref=sr_1_1_sspa This is the current version of my bench scope...https://www.saelig.com/ds1000z-plus/ds1074z-plus.htm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Beauchamp Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 16 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said: I never (okay, rarely?) leave home without one...https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Handheld-Pocket-Sized-Oscilloscope-Channels/dp/B07JQ3HRMX/ref=sr_1_1_sspa Not bad, but I prefer mine 😜 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NardweBones Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 So I think this could be implemented fairly easily, I think a clean reboot button would suffice (Basically a button that just "Closes and Reopens a new session" to prevent any issues caring over.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 21 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said: I never (okay, rarely?) leave home without one...https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Handheld-Pocket-Sized-Oscilloscope-Channels/dp/B07JQ3HRMX/ref=sr_1_1_sspa I keep looking at portable scopes, but the reality is I'm something of a shut in (yaay anxiety 🥳), so as much as I like my toys ... 21 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said: This is the current version of my bench scope...https://www.saelig.com/ds1000z-plus/ds1074z-plus.htm I was pondering one of these two https://siglentna.com/product/sds1202x-e/ https://siglentna.com/product/sds1104x-e-100-mhz/ 2 channels 200Mhz vs 4 channels 100Mhz and a logic analyzer option .. leaning towards the 200Mhz and a separate logic analyzer, should do me for all the junk I seem to spend my life poking. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said: I keep looking at portable scopes, but the reality is I'm something of a shut in (yaay anxiety 🥳), so as much as I like my toys ... I was pondering one of these two https://siglentna.com/product/sds1202x-e/ https://siglentna.com/product/sds1104x-e-100-mhz/ 2 channels 200Mhz vs 4 channels 100Mhz and a logic analyzer option .. leaning towards the 200Mhz and a separate logic analyzer, should do me for all the junk I seem to spend my life poking. My all time favorite scope was Dad's Tek 2465. I grew up on four channels, so it's hard to consider less. He paid a fortune for it when I entered engineering school, and it was better than anything in school labs. I donated it to the local maker club a few years ago, when I got the Rigol. I did a lot of analog design over my career, and often found the need for more than two channels, usually because I was implementing some kind of control system and needed a good look at both the cause and effect and possibly stages of each. Though it was fun at the time, I don't want to revisit needing eight channels of scope or 80 channels of logic analyzer. The Siglent scopes you're looking at are better than my Rigol, and are well liked by their users. I don't think you'll go wrong with either of them. If there's any advantage of having a logic analyzer built into the scope, it's in triggering. It can be handy, or even crucial, to be able to trigger the scope on the occurrence of some pattern in the logic. If you have a separate logic analyzer with a trigger output, that's not an issue. Ignoring the trigger issue, a PC based logic analyzer is far superior to a stand alone, if your sampling rate is low enough for continuous tracing into the PC's memory, where you can do a post mortem autopsy on the complete corpse. It's no fun trying to catch bugs that happen once an hour in a system you can only log for two seconds. I have one of these somewhere in the lab as it works on macOS...https://www.saleae.com/ Those analyzers do NOT have a trigger output, but do have analog input and can act as a low bandwidth scope. ETA: Regarding scopes in the wild, I've always been curious about natural phenomena. I have a small photodetector probe that mates with my pocket scope. I use it to look at the blinky things my fast retinas notice. Some years ago I noticed that some TVs at Best Buy annoyed the hell out of me with their flickering. They were all plasma sets and all advertised 600Hz refresh rates. That seemed wrong to me, as I know my flicker fusion threshold is maybe 75-80Hz. I was curious, so I built a small photo probe for an old portable scope and went back to Best Buy. Pointing it at the TV, I saw pronounced flicker at 60Hz, with tiny ripples at 600Hz. I deduced that, although the screen really was flashing at 600Hz, it achieved a wide range of total brightness (256 levels) by splitting up the total light output into 10 flashes of 26 levels each. Returning home to Google it, I discovered that's exactly how it's done. My eyes were detecting the one frame in ten that contained the remainder of the brightness, mod10. Edited March 2, 2022 by Madelaine McMasters 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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