Relax buddy, I’m not looking at your girlfriend!

[Kalegthepsionicist]

they take too seriously in their rp

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

54 minutes ago, Kalegthepsionicist said:

try create male avatar with new account. and let see ..🤣

 

This account started as male to help with setting poses on furniture I was making. 

Thank you for proving my point.

[Silent Mistwalker]

37 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

"molested by a crosshair".

This made me think of the games I play on my pc that can be played in single, co-op or MMO modes. I wonder if it has anything to do with being shot at or blown up in games. When you log in somewhere you don't expect such things and suddenly find your avatar targeted by several beams it can trigger instinctive reactions. Kind of like how in movies you see the guy suddenly realize he has about 40 laser sights pointed at him.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Silent Mistwalker

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Since the topic has come up yet again, we can either use it as another opportunity to point and laugh at the people with silly notions like this, or we could have a discussion about the mentality that drives those silly notions and what the underlying cause of peoples discomfort may be.

I remember this sort of topic in another forum where a number of posters felt that when others were looking at them specifically, it was with the intent to copy(bot) their look or outfit and that caused them distress.

[Lucia Nightfire]

25 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I remember this sort of topic in another forum where a number of posters felt that when others were looking at them specifically, it was with the intent to copy(bot) their look or outfit and that caused them distress.

No copybot viewer requires the user to alt-cam the target to begin the ripping process.

That is radar/menu based.

Plus, copybotting has significantly declined at the advent of mesh and upload costs, at least on agni.

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

No copybot viewer requires the user to alt-cam the target to begin the ripping process.

That is radar/menu based.

Plus, copybotting has significantly declined at the advent of mesh and upload costs, at least on agni.

Yes, I didn't say whether their assumption was correct, only that it was their concern. Though in actuality, are you sure that alt-cam isn't an option for that sort of thing? It was a few years back when there was more of it going on.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Arielle Popstar
added

[Rowan Amore]

What about all the people staring at you that you don't even know about?  You'll never know they've been watching you for an hour.  Does the thought of that make you less uncomfortable or more?  You may see their crosshairs locked on the wall but they've moved to stare right at you!   😳😲👀

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

27 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

This made me think of the games I play on my pc that can be played in single, co-op or MMO modes. I wonder if it has anything to do with being shot at or blown up in games. When you log in somewhere you don't expect such things and suddenly find your avatar targeted by several beams it can trigger instinctive reactions. Kind of like how in movies you see the guy suddenly realize he has about 40 laser sights pointed at him.

I think that in some ways what you're describing could equate to the ideas expressed by @Echelon Alcott in his earlier post in this thread (link below) where he suggested that perhaps for some people their discomfort is an instinctive reaction to being observed by strangers without knowing their intentions.  As someone that doesn't really socialize often (in RL or SL) I can certainly see why being stared at by complete strangers would make some people feel a little self conscious and therefore uneasy.

 

29 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I remember this sort of topic in another forum where a number of posters felt that when others were looking at them specifically, it was with the intent to copy(bot) their look or outfit and that caused them distress.

Again, I think this would also fall under the umbrella of not knowing the intentions of the person looking at you, probably fueled by the hysteria that surrounded the subject of copybots at the time.

While it may be the case that simply knowing you're being observed without knowing the intentions of those observing you is enough to cause some people to react badly,  I'm wondering if there may be some other factors at play, such as the existence of the crosshair itself.

When confronted with things I don't understand my first reaction is to try and draw some parallel between the behaviour/situation in question and other, more familiar, examples.  In this instance the closest analogy I can think of is this:

Imagine you are out at a bar or restaurant with some friends.  You look down and notice a sticker stuck to your clothing with a random persons name on it.  After attempting to remove it you realize that you are unable to do so, and neither is anyone besides the person that put it there.  Your choices are to ignore it and hope nobody else notices it's there, leave the venue that you're at and abandon your plans to enjoy a night out with friends, or to confront the individual who put it there in the hopes that you can persuade them to remove it.  Obviously none of these solutions are ideal and I'd imagine that for some people the entire experience would be quite upsetting.

Of course, as is the case with most analogies, this one is not perfect.  However if you take into account the fact that some people tend to identify with their avatars far more closely than others and may not be as familiar with the "social norms" that exist within SL, I think it's entirely possible to see how, for some, having something "locked on" to their avatar without their consent could be seen as a violation of what they consider to be their "personal space".

 

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

What about all the people staring at you that you don't even know about?  You'll never know they've been watching you for an hour.  Does the thought of that make you less uncomfortable or more?  You may see their crosshairs locked on the wall but they've moved to stare right at you!   😳😲👀

I think this is part of what makes this topic so ridiculous to those of us who have been around long enough to know how the SL camera and lookat targets work.

[Eddy Vortex]

2 hours ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I'm just interested in the topic being discussed, I have no interest in starting up an online support group for people who've been "molested by a crosshair".

Molested by Crosshairs

Looks like you got a brand new name for a band or SL store.  You should put a trademark on that.

[Rowan Amore]

19 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I think that in some ways what you're describing could equate to the ideas expressed by @Echelon Alcott in his earlier post in this thread (link below) where he suggested that perhaps for some people their discomfort is an instinctive reaction to being observed by strangers without knowing their intentions.  As someone that doesn't really socialize often (in RL or SL) I can certainly see why being stared at by complete strangers would make some people feel a little self conscious and therefore uneasy.

 

Again, I think this would also fall under the umbrella of not knowing the intentions of the person looking at you, probably fueled by the hysteria that surrounded the subject of copybots at the time.

While it may be the case that simply knowing you're being observed without knowing the intentions of those observing you is enough to cause some people to react badly,  I'm wondering if there may be some other factors at play, such as the existence of the crosshair itself.

When confronted with things I don't understand my first reaction is to try and draw some parallel between the behaviour/situation in question and other, more familiar, examples.  In this instance the closest analogy I can think of is this:

Imagine you are out at a bar or restaurant with some friends.  You look down and notice a sticker stuck to your clothing with a random persons name on it.  After attempting to remove it you realize that you are unable to do so, and neither is anyone besides the person that put it there.  Your choices are to ignore it and hope nobody else notices it's there, leave the venue that you're at and abandon your plans to enjoy a night out with friends, or to confront the individual who put it there in the hopes that you can persuade them to remove it.  Obviously none of these solutions are ideal and I'd imagine that for some people the entire experience would be quite upsetting.

Of course, as is the case with most analogies, this one is not perfect.  However if you take into account the fact that some people tend to identify with their avatars far more closely than others and may not be as familiar with the "social norms" that exist within SL, I think it's entirely possible to see how, for some, having something "locked on" to their avatar without their consent could be seen as a violation of what they consider to be their "personal space".

 

I think this is part of what makes this topic so ridiculous to those of us who have been around long enough to know how the SL camera and lookat targets work.

IIRC, you have to enable the ability to SEE the crosshairs, at least on Firestorm.  You also must choose to disable sending them.  Although all of your points are valid, the person enabling their ability to see who is looking  has chosen to see them.  If they find it's causing them distress, they have the ability to turn it back off.

 

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

43 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

IIRC, you have to enable the ability to SEE the crosshairs, at least on Firestorm.  You also must choose to disable sending them.  Although all of your points are valid, the person enabling their ability to see who is looking  has chosen to see them.  If they find it's causing them distress, they have the ability to turn it back off.

 

Absolutely, for the most part people who are bothered by crosshairs but keep them enabled regardless are to some extent responsible for their own discomfort.  While I did consider this when trying to come up with an analogy, I couldn't come up with a comparable RL equivalent that would sound even remotely plausible (I guess it would be something along the lines of "wear one of those cone shaped collars they use for pets so you can no longer see the obtrusive sticker that's attached to you"). 

The problem is that people, once they're aware something exists, are equally if not more uncomfortable being oblivious to its presence as they are knowing that it's there (I personally feel very much the same way about spiders, seeing one scurry across the floor and disappear into some crack in the floorboards is more unsettling than seeing one crouched in a corner, since at least if I can see it I know it's not creeping up on me).

ETA: Perhaps another reason some people dislike lookat crosshairs is because they're only 2 legs away from having a spider on them? 😄

Edited February 1, 2022 by Fluffy Sharkfin
Eww, spiders!

[Lucia Nightfire]

5 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Yes, I didn't say whether their assumption was correct, only that it was their concern. Though in actuality, are you sure that alt-cam isn't an option for that sort of thing? It was a few years back when there was more of it going on.

The actual original Copybot, maybe, but not the actual viewers that came later, but then again, there could have been some ancient niche viewer that did. I've certainly never seen one that did even back in 2007. And it was more than a few years back. Once mesh and upload fees came, copybotting and injecting in-world slowly faded into obscurity with each passing year. I almost never seen it done outside of griefers injecting ancient content.

Ripping to file certainly still happens. I occasionally see people wearing ripped <insert popular mesh head/body here> and report it to creators if I can ID it.

Also, there are people whom still believe that mesh can't be ripped, nor rigging or fitting data. This, sadly, is untrue. Anything rendered can be ripped.

[Lucia Nightfire]

6 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

What about all the people staring at you that you don't even know about?  You'll never know they've been watching you for an hour.  Does the thought of that make you less uncomfortable or more?  You may see their crosshairs locked on the wall but they've moved to stare right at you!   😳😲👀

 

[Maryanne Solo]

But crosshairs tickle..... 

[Setsuki Takeda]

Look at them?

If you're wearing something I like I already scanned you from 20m away with my cam pointing the other direction XD

Of course if they're getting mad about it they probably have breasts that could raise the Titanic and hips that should be classified as heavy industrial equipment so what they're wearing wouldn't fit me anyway.