Trick or Treat Event FYI

[Rabid Cheetah]

2 hours ago, Dreamer Pixelmaid said:

You don't have to be a premium member to collect candies. The contest is open to all: premium accounts and free ones, and nobody is forcing you to participate. 

Read further in the thread.

[Abnor Mole]

On 10/24/2021 at 12:56 PM, Cinos Field said:

I also see no particular reason why us Mainlanders can't rez buckets, but whatever, it's not that big a deal for me.

The rezzing of buckets is limited to Bellisseria parcels because the way the land an estate setting work there (or more accurately how they do not work) provides a level of consistency that doesn't exist on Mainland or other estates. This greatly simplifies much of what we need to do to prevent gaming of the system. Parcels cannot be divided in Bellisseria and they are limited to one per account, which means parcel IDs do not change and one resident could not rez 5000 buckets, etc.  Bellisseria is also organized into neighborhoods (where there are not supposed to be any warningless/teleporting security orbs) and clearly defined public spaces and thoroughfares, which also lends itself better to the whole concept or going door to door trick or treating and makes it a more pleasant experience for everyone. 

The event itself though is open to all residents, and everyone is welcome to participate whether they be premium members or not. But that is the actual reason why hosting buckets is limited to Bellisseria. 

[Rabid Cheetah]

1 hour ago, Abnor Mole said:

The rezzing of buckets is limited to Bellisseria parcels because the way the land an estate setting work there (or more accurately how they do not work) provides a level of consistency that doesn't exist on Mainland or other estates. This greatly simplifies much of what we need to do to prevent gaming of the system. Parcels cannot be divided in Bellisseria and they are limited to one per account, which means parcel IDs do not change and one resident could not rez 5000 buckets, etc.  Bellisseria is also organized into neighborhoods (where there are not supposed to be any warningless/teleporting security orbs) and clearly defined public spaces and thoroughfares, which also lends itself better to the whole concept or going door to door trick or treating and makes it a more pleasant experience for everyone. 

The event itself though is open to all residents, and everyone is welcome to participate whether they be premium members or not. But that is the actual reason why hosting buckets is limited to Bellisseria. 

 

Thanks for the explanation.

It's too late for this year's contest, but for next year's, please consider @Marianne Little's excellent suggestion of prize-tier levels, instead of a system that specifically, by design, grades on the curve, as it were.  Putting in the effort to find one thousand buckets shouldn't feel like an empty accomplishment if 25 people got one thousand and ONE.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Rabid Cheetah

[yestothis]

they can change the rules right now

[DaisyCalderwood]

7 hours ago, Alumna Cornell said:

Hello, everybody - Just wanted to let those who are collecting candy know that I have a pumpkin at the entrance to my always-open house. So far only 19 people have found it   Why not visit and look at the exhibition, indulge yourself in the cafe or daydream in the garden while you're there? http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Walrus Beach/83/111/33

What a lovely location ! I must go back to Bradford to visit, I am reminded how nice it is.

mmm and your cup cakes... they must be home made? 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by DaisyCalderwood

[yestothis]

Somehow an event that’s meant to be fun, is being turned into something malicious by some residents. I just saw this morning in a popular Bellisseria group chat, someone claims to have knowledge of cheaters and made a threatening comment that the cheaters will get “a surprise”. Did a Linden Lab employee confirm this? Does this resident have any right to spread rumors and cause people to be suspicious of each other? There is NO way to cheat the system. It’s irresponsible to make allegations without proof.  If you believe the system can be rigged, ask a Linden. As far as I know, you can only collect from a pumpkin on a parcel ONE time.

It’s honestly making me feel like these people are preemptively raining on the winners parades by spreading unfounded rumors. 

[Derrick Linden]

Greetings all,

We hope that you’re enjoying Trick or Treating across Bellisseria! We’ve seen a lot of activity, and we’ve heard a lot of positive feedback about the event in general.

We’ve been quietly monitoring several individuals that have been cheating by way of using loopholes to collect more than one candy from a single Linden Home owner. As this has become more widely discussed, we felt the need to make an announcement on this matter. 

You will only receive credit from collecting candy from a parcel owner the first time it is collected. Subsequent clicks on a bucket from the same parcel owner, even if on a different home/parcel, will not be counted. While the number on your hud will go up, it is not counting on the back end where we have extensive documentation that we will be reviewing prior to sending our prizes. In short - anyone that thinks they are gaming the system is wasting their time. 

Any individuals identified for flagrant abuse will be disqualified from any potential prizes they may have otherwise won. 

[Mollymews]

On 10/25/2021 at 4:05 AM, Marianne Little said:

Visitors to my candy bucket has dropped. I thought it should be more in the weekend, not less. It has not reached 92 yet.

It is still so many days left. What has happened? Do people quit now because it's so few buckets?

It would be better, I think, if it was set numbers to get the bears. Let us say, you need 80 candies to get the second one, after the "starter" bear. So maybe 125 candies to get the next, 250 candies to get the super special one.

Now you have to be one of 10 at the top to get the super special one, and you have no idea how many candies the other players have. Will you be 11th from the top and miss the bear you wanted?

At least with a number of candies, you were sure that you got the price as soon as that number was reached.

yes this ^^

when the objective is to foster goodwill in a community then these kinds of events should offer participatory awards. Everybody who participates and puts in the effort gets rewarded commensurately. It shoudn't be set up like a sporting competition where some win and others don't. No matter how much effort and time the non-winners put in

there is a place for sporting and leaderboard competitions, I just think that community goodwill fostering events are not that place

[Jaylinbridges]

16 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

there is a place for sporting and leaderboard competitions, I just think that community goodwill fostering events are not that place

A leaderboard located at the HUD dispensing regions might be a good idea.  Just show the top 10, or top 35 at the moment.  But that would be a competition for sure, and sports competitions these days are only for the general public to watch, not participate.  They could even have commercials (for SL of course) in between board updates.

Getting on the scoreboards though would encourage more unruly behaviour, like jumping the tracks on motorbike race tracks that show the board leaders times.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[LittleMe Jewell]

44 minutes ago, Derrick Linden said:

Greetings all,

We hope that you’re enjoying Trick or Treating across Bellisseria! We’ve seen a lot of activity, and we’ve heard a lot of positive feedback about the event in general.

We’ve been quietly monitoring several individuals that have been cheating by way of using loopholes to collect more than one candy from a single Linden Home owner. As this has become more widely discussed, we felt the need to make an announcement on this matter. 

You will only receive credit from collecting candy from a parcel owner the first time it is collected. Subsequent clicks on a bucket from the same parcel owner, even if on a different home/parcel, will not be counted. While the number on your hud will go up, it is not counting on the back end where we have extensive documentation that we will be reviewing prior to sending our prizes. In short - anyone that thinks they are gaming the system is wasting their time. 

Any individuals identified for flagrant abuse will be disqualified from any potential prizes they may have otherwise won. 

Oh my.  Since some of us are going off of various lists, we don't necessarily know if we are clicking a bucket for a person that has changed homes.  If I've done so, it has only been because the various parcels were on the lists given to me (and likewise shared around), but definitely not with any intention of gaming a loophole.  Thus I do hope you folks are very careful in classifying someone as a cheater. 

I truly do think that anyone intentionally trying to game the system ought to be tossed out of the competition, but I really hope accidental folks are not nabbed under the enforcement work.

Edited October 29, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[yestothis]

47 minutes ago, Derrick Linden said:

Greetings all,

We hope that you’re enjoying Trick or Treating across Bellisseria! We’ve seen a lot of activity, and we’ve heard a lot of positive feedback about the event in general.

We’ve been quietly monitoring several individuals that have been cheating by way of using loopholes to collect more than one candy from a single Linden Home owner. As this has become more widely discussed, we felt the need to make an announcement on this matter. 

You will only receive credit from collecting candy from a parcel owner the first time it is collected. Subsequent clicks on a bucket from the same parcel owner, even if on a different home/parcel, will not be counted. While the number on your hud will go up, it is not counting on the back end where we have extensive documentation that we will be reviewing prior to sending our prizes. In short - anyone that thinks they are gaming the system is wasting their time. 

Any individuals identified for flagrant abuse will be disqualified from any potential prizes they may have otherwise won. 

The rules should have been clarified before you run an event. And, to call your paying customers cheaters is in poor taste. You could have worded this better. And the fact that some resident already discussed this in a group means that you have Linden employees that blabbed to people not involved, or they're secret Lindens parading as residents, oh my.

[Teresa Firelight]

1 hour ago, Derrick Linden said:

 

We’ve been quietly monitoring several individuals that have been cheating by way of using loopholes to collect more than one candy from a single Linden Home owner. As this has become more widely discussed, we felt the need to make an announcement on this matter. 

You will only receive credit from collecting candy from a parcel owner the first time it is collected. Subsequent clicks on a bucket from the same parcel owner, even if on a different home/parcel, will not be counted. While the number on your hud will go up, it is not counting on the back end where we have extensive documentation that we will be reviewing prior to sending our prizes. In short - anyone that thinks they are gaming the system is wasting their time. 

Any individuals identified for flagrant abuse will be disqualified from any potential prizes they may have otherwise won. 

I dont understand how you can NOT have a rule and then call us cheaters for breaking a rule that did not exist??? If you spell out a rule and we break it intentionally after it is spelled out, that is one thing.

But if there isnt a rule, how can we know we are "breaking" it? Calling us cheaters is offensive wording Derrick. Please consider rephrasing it.

Being called a cheater because I broke a rule that I did not know existed takes all the fun out of it. We had been doing all this fun exciting community building, sharing SLurls and helping each other along. It was fun and exciting to be a group working together. But now I feel offended/hurt and I dont want to participate anymore. 

Also, I have been maintaining 12 premium accounts, which is roughly $99 USD a month for linden homes. Now I am questioning if I want more than 1 because I dont like being put down by the management of the company that I am paying.

[yestothis]

This response by a Linden is damaging to the community. You could have simply said, we're sorry we didn't clarify this (non-existent) rule earlier, but if you have duplicate clicks from the same owner, those will be deducted! Have fun trick or treating everyone! Nobody would be mad at that message, even if you just made up a rule.

Instead, you made it sound soooooooooo shady. This is virtual trick or treating, chill out.

[Nika Talaj]

9 minutes ago, Teresa Firelight said:

Being called a cheater because I broke a rule that I did not know existed takes all the fun out of it.

Waaaiiiiit a minute, let's slow down.  I don't think Derrick is referring to accidentally picking up a bucket or three from avatars who happened to change homes.  I think he's referring to some sort of systematic, repetitive hopping followed by candy picking up by a short list of avatars.  Get a home, tell your friends (& alts!), move, tell your friends, move, tell your friends, etc..   I seriously doubt you've been doing that, Teresa & Littleme. yestothis, I haven't known you for years like I have Teresa & Littleme, but it seems likely that you haven't been doing that either.

I think @Derrick Linden is just trying to address a concern that evidently has been discussed inworld quite a bit, judging by what you say, yestothis. 

I'd hate for LL to take away a message like "no good deed goes unpunished".  This event has been fun and, if we can all take it lightly, there will be more such events, and their design will presumably steadily improve.  I think Marianne's suggestion of there being "level awards" next time is a good one.

There will always be people who try to game any system they encounter.  Let's not let those few poor, driven people ruin it for the rest of us. 

[Quistess Alpha]

On 10/28/2021 at 3:03 PM, Abnor Mole said:

one resident could not rez 5000 buckets, etc.

One Bucket per account per region is not hard to enforce:

integer secret_channel= 777;
default
{
  on_rez()
  {
    llRegionSay(secret_channel,"One Pumpkin!");
    llListen(secret_channel,"",llGetOwner(),"One Pumpkin!");
  }
  listen(integer chan, string name, key ID, text)
  {
    if(chan==secret_channel)
    {
       llSay(0,"One Pumpkin per Region per user please.");
       llDie();
    }else
    {  // other stuff.
    }
  }
}

but I kindof see the point on other issues.

[Mollymews]

42 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Getting on the scoreboards though would encourage more unruly behaviour, like jumping the tracks on motorbike race tracks that show the board leaders times.

yes it does.  The desire to be number 1 on a leaderboard, to get the cup, can lead to unruly behaviour by the players and more

and it does lead to other players complaints. And trying themselves to police the behaviours of other players and so on. Which heightens the sense of frustration and feelings of unfairness. Which in turn  affects the body of goodwiil that was anticipated. And the game organisers end up in a whole other territory, that they never envisaged at the outset

with participatory reward games then it doesn't matter if other players cheat. What a player does has no impact on the other players. And the game orgainsers aren't put into a postion where they have to publicly assuage the grieved players. They can just silently donk the cheaters out of the game and the other players need not by any wiser about this. As geting donked or not for cheating doesn't  impact on the the rewards they might get from participating

[yestothis]

3 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

I think he's referring to some sort of systematic, repetitive hopping followed by candy picking up by a short list of avatars.  Get a home, tell your friends (& alts!), move, tell your friends, move, tell your friends, etc..

That broke which rule? People have alts, they can roll 5x a day, let them. Since this rule was just implemented 5 minutes ago, they can easily just delete the dupes without branding people cheaters. Perhaps going forward, NOW THAT THIS IS A RULE, people will know. I like to think of SL as a democracy with justice.

[LittleMe Jewell]

I honestly believe that the INTENTION was that you could only click an Avatar's bucket one time regardless of where it is located.  

It never even dawned on me that moving my Alt's bucket to a new home would allow me or anyone else to click it again. 

Also, being the skeptic that I am, I have absolutely no doubt that there were some people that were intentionally gaming that ploy, moving their buckets 5 times each and every day in order for others to be able to click it again and again and again.

While it wasn't specifically stated that such activity was not allowed, I don't think that the 'gamed clicks', whether intentional or not, should be counted.  As to total disqualification, as I said before, I'd really hate to see anyone disqualified because they happened to click the same bucket on multiple parcels only because of the shared lists.

 

By the way, Derrick never specifically said that anyone 'broke any rule'. He said that some people were going out of their way to exploit a loophole -- i.e. a bug in the way they created the system.

Edited October 30, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Mollymews]

1 hour ago, Jaylinbridges said:

A leaderboard located at the HUD dispensing regions might be a good idea.  Just show the top 10, or top 35 at the moment.

just on this bit in itself

in a participatory game, the board can show the last say 35 or 50 to reach each level.  The latest achiever added to the top slot on the board, names sliding down the board and out the bottom

people like that. To see their name on a achievement board, a momentary sense of satisfaction and content at the acknowledgment. Content with also knowing that their name is going to get bumped down the board by the next person to achieve, eventually aging out at the bottom

[yestothis]

2 hours ago, Derrick Linden said:

We’ve been quietly monitoring several individuals that have been cheating by way of using loopholes to collect more than one candy from a single Linden Home owner. As this has become more widely discussed, we felt the need to make an announcement on this matter. 

Why don't you just talk to them? What is quietly monitoring? Not breaking rules if you don't say it.

[Freddie Venus]

I love a bit of scandal. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

9 minutes ago, Madonna666 said:

I love a bit of scandal. 

Isn't that part of what the forums are for?  

We aim to please.

[Derrick Linden]

I just wanted to respond to a few of these and help offer some more clarification.

3 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Oh my.  Since some of us are going off of various lists, we don't necessarily know if we are clicking a bucket for a person that has changed homes.  If I've done so, it has only been because the various parcels were on the lists given to me (and likewise shared around), but definitely not with any intention of gaming a loophole.  Thus I do hope you folks are very careful in classifying someone as a cheater. 

Going off the lists that have been passed around is not a problem at all, and we absolutely won't be disqualifying anyone that has come by their candy honestly. Some home owners may have relocated and placed out a new bucket, and unassuming trick or treaters have come by and clicked their bucket twice (or three or four times for that matter). That's absolutely no problem. 

3 hours ago, yestothis said:

And, to call your paying customers cheaters is in poor taste. 

Cheaters was probably a bit strong of a word, and that's on me. It's more fitting to say that they're exploiting an unintended bug. 

3 hours ago, Teresa Firelight said:

Being called a cheater because I broke a rule that I did not know existed takes all the fun out of it. We had been doing all this fun exciting community building, sharing SLurls and helping each other along. It was fun and exciting to be a group working together.

Nothing wrong with anything you've listed here! Everything here is in the spirit of the event. 

 

3 hours ago, Nika Talaj said:

I don't think Derrick is referring to accidentally picking up a bucket or three from avatars who happened to change homes.  I think he's referring to some sort of systematic, repetitive hopping followed by candy picking up by a short list of avatars.  Get a home, tell your friends (& alts!), move, tell your friends, move, tell your friends, etc.. 

This right here. I can't give a whole lot of details, but to toss out a number - one individual currently in the running for prizes (if we were to not adjust these numbers) has collected a little over 61% of their candy from repeated uses of a fairly small number of accounts. Meanwhile, the average trick or treater has a repeat rate of less than 2%. Someone not exploiting this loophole should not lose out on prizes they've worked toward by someone who is abusing it so maliciously.

 

3 hours ago, yestothis said:

Why don't you just talk to them? What is quietly monitoring? Not breaking rules if you don't say it.

Unfortunately we began to see the topic discussed more publicly, such as in the Belli Citizens group. We wanted to make sure others were not encouraged to go out of their way to attempt to "level the playing field". 

[Marianne Little]

Umm@Derrick Lindenis a loophole illegal? In RL lawyers make big money because they are clever and find loopholes. I know SL is Linden Labs to rule over. We accept this every time we log in. But still, alts are allowed, multiple premiums on one person is allowed and changing home 5/24 is allowed. Where is the broken rule?  Besides that you did not think it could be used this way, and you do not like it.

I think you shoot yourself in the foot here. This became bad because you decided to make only 10 super special bears. That is rarer than the most ultra rare gacha. Did you not think people would go crazy? 

And what if people paid alts only to get a bear? They paid because you dangled the bear in front of addicts, addicted to own what only 9 others can have. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Marianne Little

[Querida Ysabel]

It is really bad form  to call your customers cheaters, and to say "that has come by their candy honestly" implies that people did something illegal. As a long time customer of SL, I find this really offensive. It is LL's fault if they did not spell out the rules clearly. Quite simply it should of been 1 pumpkin per av, instead of 1 per parcel. This is blaming the players for bad execution of the game/rules.

There where many ways to avoid this and encourage participation. 

Collect a pumpkin at various Linden locations, in addition to the ones at homes, if you wanted to encourage people visiting new places.

A set goal, instead of this current method would of been much better. No leaderboard was really frustrating, and leads to a lot of speculation and rumors.

There could of been other ways to attain the goals, instead of who got the most. It could of been one or a combination of these things. A combination would of been much more enjoyable, different paths make things fairer for people who may not have as much time online. The bears or prizes could of been in different colors, if you did not want to add more, a color change one for your top winners, instead of just one color. Unlock colors with each goal you accomplish.

1. Set goals of so many candies given out

2. Setting up teams in your neighborhoods

3. Complete a maze. (Isn't there one in the cornfield?)

4. Collect x amount of candies from from a public Linden locations.

5. Collect x amount from each theme

6. Each person has to collect a unique candy to contribute to a collection (this would of been great for teams.

7. Hints to secret pumpkin locations in Belle. 

8. A ghost or witch that appears at certain times, in multiple places. Once you find one from each character you can not get another from them.

So many missed opportunities here for community and team building, and building exposure of the Belle regions. A lot of people I told about the game had no idea anything was happening.

I had really been enjoying to contest, chatting with friends trying to get people to participate, and seeing so many creatively decorated homes, along with areas I had not explored. It motivated me to want to do more decorating. I heard this from many people in chat as they discovered things they had not seen before and where making shopping lists.

It was really disappointing to hear all this today. The community needs more events that will encourage participation not just on the individual's part, but encourages them to help and network with others. I want  SL to thrive get more users, and more people to use premium, I assume that is LL's goal as well.