Should Resident Trees Be Allowed In Bellisseria & Should Each Theme Content Pack Include A Selection of Optimized Trees To Go With Theme

[Teresa Firelight]

hey everyone, this thread is starting to get ugly.... I am no longer enjoying reading it and probably wont anymore.

This is supposed to be about building community. Please be nice to each other.

[LittleMe Jewell]

4 hours ago, Paulsian said:

Should Resident Trees Be Allowed In Bellisseria & Should Each Theme Content Pack Include A Selection of Optimized Trees To Go With Theme

 

(read the first part of the question as "not be allowed", so had to edit the post)

To the first question:

 

To the second question

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Paulsian]

This was very informative, thank you all again for your feedback. I'm going to let it go until the mods shut it down. Have at it. Thankfully i'm not addicted to the forums, for those of you who are, get some help, you know who you are. 

[JessycaJayne]

I am fairly certain you used the term unofficial landscaping about 300 times in this thread. Had I taken a shot of whiskey for each time you used it. I'd be on the floor, making out with my pillow while drooling over the carpet that lays below our romantic trist.. 

Secondly. Resident content is one of the driving forces that pays for sl to even exist in the first place. All those unofficial landscaping items that are sold on marketplace, all the texture uploads for ads etc, a percentage of all of that .. upload fee/sales, it all goes to LL. Which in turn helps to pay for employment and facilitate new and innovatative ways to keep the second life community thriving and growing.

Your suggestion and/or hope that the entire grid should be forced to use official landscaping only, is not only removing personal choice from grown adults who are paying for a service and come to second life BECAUSE it is a creative platform to begin with. It would outright, kill the economy of the entire, ever growing project that IS second life. 

Now on a brighter, more festive note. I just went out and bought 450 of these. These are weaponized trees from Fallout4. Once you find a house that makes you 100% happy, which should be about a quarter to never... I will bring you a few of these as a house warming gift! 

 

https://imgur.com/91o2ShH

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also @Evangeline Ling 

Atari 2600 was the ***** and we both know it.

🐹

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by JessycaJayne

[Always Incognito]

On 7/19/2021 at 3:04 AM, Paulsian said:

Maybe it's the scale of the lower optimized trees; being so large they are messing with the surrounding render efficiency. I'm literally walking around any everything official is fine besides areas near these large grey blobs are near. Hmmm maybe something to look into for viewer team.? 

Alternate possible solution all trees require a tree classification official / non official indicating they are a tree (or any plant larger than 4 meters (just throwing that size out there). So that people who would like to stop, wait, and see the beauty can do so and others can simply say don't so any unofficial trees. This option would likely increase performance. 

I'm getting the feeling that people want freedom to have their own trees & people like the official trees but maybe if offered in a less impactful way they would be more used (if offered), and people are seeing the same problem I am.

I'm grateful for all comments and I'm hopeful something can be worked out to benefit the entire community. 

I havent had this ”grey blob tree” issue yet so I wonder in which region I can see them? I only have problems with textures sometimes getting a bit blurry but not grey? It can be grey when I Tp somewhere But only for a few seconds normally. 

[Always Incognito]

22 hours ago, MoiraKathleen said:

 

If you are experiencing texture thrashing - where a texture loads, and then unloads and then loads again, that may be from the Hardware Texture Memory size in the LL viewer (where it is capped at 512 MB).   Several other 3rd party viewers have a larger cap for that.  When I'm not using the LL viewer, I use Kokua viewer, and it caps out at 2048 MB, and I beleive that is what Firestorm caps out at also.  So you might want to try one of the 3rd party viewers to see if that helps with that issue.  Firestorm is very popular, has a very active group for help in-world, they regularly hold classes at their regions in-world about using the FS viewer, they have an extensive help wiki, and many here in the forums use    

Thank you!! This is my only problem, more or less. Ill look deeper into this viewer thing ❤️

[Dakota Linden]

Greetings, All!

If you believe that an item or content violates the Linden Homes Covenant, please file an Abuse Report on the content using the option: Land - Objects or Textures. 

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:New_Linden_Homes_2019#Linden_Homes_Covenant

The forums are not the appropriate place to try to submit suggestions.  They are a Community Participation Forum where users can talk with and engage with other users. 

While the Patch, Tommy, Kristin, the Moles, and others do occasionally post to the forums, and may even reply to some posts or threads, the forums are not and never have been the appropriate location for submitting suggestions or issues. 

If you have encountered an issue, you are strongly encouraged to submit a Bug Report and provide as much information as possible so that the Engineers can investigate the report. 

If you wish to discuss general issues or submit suggestions, please see if the topic is covered by one of the User Groups teams.  If it does, then please endeavor to attend, or try to find another user who can attend, where the concern or suggestion can be submitted directly to that team. 

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:User_Groups

 

[Paulsian]

6 hours ago, Dakota Linden said:

The forums are not the appropriate place to try to submit suggestions.  They are a Community Participation Forum where users can talk with and engage with other users.

Roger that, I will be more mindful about future posted topics. I appreciate your guidance. 

I just saw the most beautiful bamboo trees, the same ones, I mentioned above. I take back what I said before, I would not like to derender all of them; if ever the option comes along to do, however, some of the animated tress that seem to demand more resources to render that effect the (sorry dude, drink up) official content I would.  

Edited July 20, 2021 by Paulsian
correction

[Dakota Linden]

Greetings, Paulsian

Please accept my apologies!! 

Until I read the section of my comments that you quoted, I did not realize how brusk that sounds. It was not in any way my intention to sound that way. 

The forums are here for you, the user, to have a central location with which to communicate with other users that you would not normally have contact with in Second Life. 

Discussions about ideas, issues, concerns, suggestions, etc. are great on the forums since the discussion can, and does, provide differing view points regarding a subject, but since these forums are informal and are set up for the users to communicate with each other, they are not designed for submitting "official" suggestions, concerns, or bug reports to Linden Lab.

The Jira issue tracker is the official/formal location for reporting techy stuff (not abuse related) to Linden Lab since that is where all of the stuff is tracked for the various Development teams and engineers, but with User Groups, they are the perfect way to have contact directly with the teams themselves in a more informal/casual setting.  

Hope everyone is having a nice week!

[Paulsian]

1 minute ago, Dakota Linden said:

Greetings, Paulsian

Please accept my apologies!! 

I apologize for the drama. I was just out exploring Bellisseria's beautifully designed areas and saw a problem that had to do with the topic and was curious about solutions. I should have submitted another Jira bug regarding this specific issue as I have several times before. We've been trying to figure out what's causing the problem. I tend to go off topic (usually in the same realm of the original topic). I forgot how dramatic the forums are.

The forums seem to be a very difficult place to have caring civil conversations without aggression or hateful retaliation. How are new premium residents going to want to participate in this "community setting" productively with fears of being ganged up on, made fun of, and attacked by groups of others with apparent motives to cause distraction and chaos. I'm not suggesting that forum topic authors have topic options / ability to only allow premium members to comment only, place a cap on reply comments made, and length of comments. 

It's all good really, you were being helpful, great easy to understand info 

Hope you have a great week too, (melatonin does the trick for me)

[JessycaJayne]

@Paulsian

 

"The forums seem to be a very difficult place to have caring civil conversations without aggression or hateful retaliation. How are new premium residents going to want to participate in this "community setting" productively with fears of being ganged up on, made fun of, and attacked by groups of others with apparent motives to cause distraction and chaos. I'm not suggesting that forum topic authors have topic options / ability to only allow premium members to comment only, place a cap on reply comments made, and length of comments. "

 

No one "attacked you" whatsoever. You are clearly here to troll. And that would be fine, to a point, if it were funny and entertaining. But you brought up a topic regarding taking away everyone's freedoms because one person has an issue. That is not how the world works, virtual or otherwise. So I don't think it's really all that far fetched to expect some passionate reactions about that. Do you?? We did not gang up on you, no one here did. Everyone stated their individual opinions just as you did. And you were perfectly fine with escalating yours until a Linden showed up to engage in this thread. 

🐹

Edited July 21, 2021 by JessycaJayne

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

Should Resident Trees Be Allowed In Bellisseria?  Yes, as long as they are keeping within the covenant.  The freedom to make your home and parcel unique and your own is one of the draws of getting a home in Bellisseria.  I would not like to get a home where every home was a cookie cutter exact match to every other home on the virtual street. I would not be excited to have a house with only a few  adornments provided to choose from and approved by the person with the lowest speed computer and graphics card.  Learning how SL works and optimizing your set up and being responsible with your own decorating choices is on each resident to learn.  Taking away choices from people should not be the outcome of your failures to rez.

Should Each Theme Content Pack Include A Selection of Optimized Trees To Go With Theme?  Sure, why not have the option of using what the moles and Lindens used if you want to take the hit on land impact.  Just don't take away creativity and choices from everyone else because some trees didn't rez properly for a few people.

[LittleMe Jewell]

5 hours ago, Paulsian said:

The forums seem to be a very difficult place to have caring civil conversations without aggression or hateful retaliation. How are new premium residents going to want to participate in this "community setting" productively with fears of being ganged up on, made fun of, and attacked by groups of others with apparent motives to cause distraction and chaos. I'm not suggesting that forum topic authors have topic options / ability to only allow premium members to comment only, place a cap on reply comments made, and length of comments. 

I don't think anyone attacked you and most of the comments really were completely civil.

Any online communication arena requires folks to not constantly take things personally - folks need thicker skins.  There is no body language to read here, no word emphasis to help with meanings, none of those things that help up in RL face-to-face conversation.  Unfortunately, this seems to make lots of people jump to the conclusion that any disagreement on thought is an all out personal attack.

As to you last sentence - you seem to think that only letting Premium members post would make things better.  However, I know a lot of these folks and a good many of those that disagree with you - and thus make you think you are being attacked -- are actually Premium members.  So even if they were the only ones that could reply to you, you would still get 80-90% of the comments that you got.

Edited July 21, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Prokofy Neva]

On 7/19/2021 at 11:38 AM, Nika Talaj said:

Orly?  And whose are they?  Such a tease!

Paulsian, 300mb/sec is indeed just fine for SL and Belli, so long as you aren't sharing it with a bunch of people gaming or watching films.   I ran for years on a 20mb/sec link with no problems.  Belli IS demanding, with all the small parcels stuffed with user content, but you shouldn't be having the issues you describe. 

I'm curious about your hardware and settings.  The client provides a really nice summary of those in the Help menu, under "About".  On Firestorm that is the last item in the help menu; it brings up a dialog box with 3 tabs.  Usually clients default to the "info" tab, which is what you want; you should see a summary of where you are at the moment,  your hardware, and some relevant settings.  There may be a button at the bottom of the info tab to copy the info to clipboard; if not ctrl c or a screen grab will work as well.  If you're willing to have us take a peak, just paste that info here for us to look over.  [I use Firestorm, and just checked mine this way.  I believe Firestorm is the same as LL's client in this regard.]

One little performance hint: if you haven't done so already, you may wish to tell your antivirus not to bother checking your SL cache folder, particularly the texture cache.

*LightStar- Redwood Tree by Krystal Silverweb

I can see why the Moles don't put the Bellisseria content in the Library. They want the content to be premium, connected to the premium account only, to serve as a draw to getting the premium account but more to the point (since *some* things are deliverable from the house post), connected to Bellisseria only in the view, as a draw to moving in there. If they made it all available in the Library, there would be less incentive.

[Matthieu Quander]

6 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

*LightStar- Redwood Tree by Krystal Silverweb

I can see why the Moles don't put the Bellisseria content in the Library. They want the content to be premium, connected to the premium account only, to serve as a draw to getting the premium account but more to the point (since *some* things are deliverable from the house post), connected to Bellisseria only in the view, as a draw to moving in there. If they made it all available in the Library, there would be less incentive.

I can see your point regarding keeping the content for premium members, but you lost me with the notion that it is done to drive people to live in Bellisseria.  Anyone with a premium account can claim a home, grab the content pack, and then abandon the home.   Furthermore, they can then change their account back to basic and still make use of the content.  

I cannot speak for everyone, or even anyone other than myself, but the draw of living in Bellisseria is not the content pack.  It does not even enter into the equation for me.  I've made use of a few of the textures, but that is more of a convenience than something I couldn't live without.  I think the content pack is a great thing for some residents who want a few items that truly fit the theme, or for builders who want to create add-ons and need the original textures (this doesn't always work as expected, but that is another discussion).  

As for the trees, if they were made available, I think they would be used more on private regions than on residential parcels in Bellisseria due to the LI.  As nice as they are, they simply wouldn't be an efficient use of LI if one intends to fully decorate a Linden home and parcel.  This is why people would still use trees from other creators, even if they could own the mole-created trees.

While I don't always agree the design choices that other home owners make, as long as they are following the covenant, I fully respect their right to do so, and would never want to see that changed.  Live and let live.  If I don't want to see something in my view, I can change where the camera points or derender objects as needed.     

[Prokofy Neva]

7 hours ago, Matthieu Quander said:

I can see your point regarding keeping the content for premium members, but you lost me with the notion that it is done to drive people to live in Bellisseria.  Anyone with a premium account can claim a home, grab the content pack, and then abandon the home.   Furthermore, they can then change their account back to basic and still make use of the content.  

I cannot speak for everyone, or even anyone other than myself, but the draw of living in Bellisseria is not the content pack.  It does not even enter into the equation for me.  I've made use of a few of the textures, but that is more of a convenience than something I couldn't live without.  I think the content pack is a great thing for some residents who want a few items that truly fit the theme, or for builders who want to create add-ons and need the original textures (this doesn't always work as expected, but that is another discussion).  

As for the trees, if they were made available, I think they would be used more on private regions than on residential parcels in Bellisseria due to the LI.  As nice as they are, they simply wouldn't be an efficient use of LI if one intends to fully decorate a Linden home and parcel.  This is why people would still use trees from other creators, even if they could own the mole-created trees.

While I don't always agree the design choices that other home owners make, as long as they are following the covenant, I fully respect their right to do so, and would never want to see that changed.  Live and let live.  If I don't want to see something in my view, I can change where the camera points or derender objects as needed.     

If you read my post carefully, you would see that while awkwardly phrased, I mentioned not just the content pack they give away from the house post, but the landscaping around Bellisseria they don't give away:

 but more to the point (since *some* things are deliverable from the house post), connected to Bellisseria only in the view, as a draw to moving in there

Some things are deliverable from the house post, yes. But not all landscaping and content. Like the redwood trees.

I hardly use any of the content pack because they are somewhat primmy and prims are scarce.

But a draw of Bellisseria for me is the environs created by the Moles with their content, the easement between houses, the various geographical features like ponds and bridges and forests and springs and picnic areas, and the trees and plants they put on them. There is nothing like that in SL, the Mainland does not keep this rule, of course, so only a few sims like Campbell Coast can look like this, and private islands aren't contiguous. People could have more prims on a Mainland parcel with a different house and landscaping, yet they choose Bellisseria for the views. You can't buy the view, unless you do. In Belli, the view is bought by the Moles.

I have the regular SL viewer and don't use de-render and I strive to live in a world and make it so that I don't have to de-render.

 

[Always Incognito]

11 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

 

 ….”There is nothing like that in SL, the Mainland does not keep this rule, of course, so only a few sims like Campbell Coast can look like this, and private islands aren't contiguous. People could have more prims on a Mainland parcel with a different house and landscaping, yet they choose Bellisseria for the views. You can't buy the view, unless you do. In Belli, the view is bought by the Moles.

I have the regular SL viewer and don't use de-render and I strive to live in a world and make it so that I don't have to de-render.”

 

This - the view is everything to me 🌱 Thank you moles ❤️

[Rabid Cheetah]

Wow.  All the stuff I woulda missed if someone hadn't liked my comment way back on the first page.  I gave up on this thread, it just didn't interest me.  I had no idea it would turn into a tree war.  Weaponized trees?  WTF?  And now that the concept of a tree war is in my head, I gotta go listen to Rush.