Why are DEMOs ungiftable and no-transfer?

[Psyche Starling]

24 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I wouldn't know. I don't bother with blogs.

Why people want to go looking outside of SL for what they want to buy inside SL doesn't make sense to me. 

LL bought Boutique and XStreet and those became the MP (mostly XStreet). I was fine with both before MP. and didn't need anything else then or now. There weren't any shopping blogs and they weren't needed any more then than they are now. 

Humans are always trying to complicate things when it is completely unnecessary and uncalled for.

For me, it's because those events can get super laggy, and if I'm going to TP into lag hell and stare at gray boxes while I wait for everything to rez, I like to have an idea whether there's anything in there I want. I don't rule out serendipity; sometimes while on my way to the thing I came for, I'll walk past something else I like. But sometimes just knowing "eh, there's nothing I want at this month's Cosmofamemiix" saves me some time and annoyance.

 

And ETA, on a more positive note, without blogs I probably wouldn't even know about all the events there are. I get notices from some of them now, but you have to know they exist in the first place to subscribe/join.

Edited June 4, 2021 by BookishMelinoe
added stuff

[Rowan Amore]

12 minutes ago, BookishMelinoe said:

For me, it's because those events can get super laggy, and if I'm going to TP into lag hell and stare at gray boxes while I wait for everything to rez, I like to have an idea whether there's anything in there I want. I don't rule out serendipity; sometimes while on my way to the thing I came for, I'll walk past something else I like. But sometimes just knowing "eh, there's nothing I want at this month's Cosmofamemiix" saves me some time and annoyance.

 

And ETA, on a more positive note, without blogs I probably wouldn't even know about all the events there are. I get notices from some of them now, but you have to know they exist in the first place to subscribe/join.

I always check Seraphim to see what's at the events and whether I'll even bother going.  If I do see something I like, it's a lot easier to just type it into area search and grab the demo.  Home, try it on, go back and buy.  I see no reason for me to waste time camming around an entire region if there's only one thing I want.  If more people did check the blog, maybe less people would be standing around for ages and clogging up everything.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, BookishMelinoe said:

For me, it's because those events can get super laggy, and if I'm going to TP into lag hell and stare at gray boxes while I wait for everything to rez, I like to have an idea whether there's anything in there I want. I don't rule out serendipity; sometimes while on my way to the thing I came for, I'll walk past something else I like. But sometimes just knowing "eh, there's nothing I want at this month's Cosmofamemiix" saves me some time and annoyance.

 

And ETA, on a more positive note, without blogs I probably wouldn't even know about all the events there are. I get notices from some of them now, but you have to know they exist in the first place to subscribe/join.

 

I don't go to events because lag. I don't even go to SLB because lag. LL provided residents with a means of advertising events, after residents spent time and effort to convince LL, and what do people do? Abuse it. So now it's almost useless for many residents either advertising or looking for an event to attend. Even the Destination Guide gets abused. So now we have shopping blogs and blog wars. 

There is something very wrong with that picture.

[Psyche Starling]

29 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

I don't go to events because lag. I don't even go to SLB because lag. LL provided residents with a means of advertising events, after residents spent time and effort to convince LL, and what do people do? Abuse it. So now it's almost useless for many residents either advertising or looking for an event to attend. Even the Destination Guide gets abused. So now we have shopping blogs and blog wars. 

There is something very wrong with that picture.

I guess I just don't really see a big problem? I don't mind reading a shopping blog, and I don't mind popping into an event briefly to buy my whatever. I just don't want to hunt around in them for an hour and then realize I don't want anything.

[Qie Niangao]

However we as individuals perceive events or shopping blogs, they seem to be very important to SL commerce now, right?

Maybe they could change somehow to be a better experience, and even more financially rewarding to creators. A lot of attention gets paid here to how laggy they are, and lag everywhere is always a hot topic. (This week I tried to dumb-down Firestorm settings just to be able to move at the then-opening CyberFair where there's a lot of visual effects, so yeah, events lag.)

I thought demos might be one place residents could improve the experience of events, and in-world shopping in general. Specifically permissions and distribution practices for those demos.

We don't have to talk about that—I'm not the thread police.

Maybe there's nothing here anyway. Or maybe the smart merchants are already changing permissions, and some event struggling to get known is already teaming with an eager product-blogger to capitalize on the opportunity.

Or yeah, maybe there's nothing here, which would confirm my instinct for laziness in not simply producing the thing myself to see how it goes. It would suck to prototype some public-domain toolkit for attaching giftable demos to blogs. Meh, charge L$5 blog-transaction-fee per gifted demo, maybe L$2 per demo-to-self just for the convenience. Hey, bloggers gotta eat, too. It's not substack, but it's kind of a platform-enabler. Not SPAC-worthy, but it's only Second Life.

Or maybe there's nothing here. (So yeah, events lag.)

Just stepping back: SL events are a form of communication, where sales of new 3D product is the message. Events are so popular because they are the fastest delivery vehicle for that message.

    Make them faster?
    Win fabulous prizes!

    "What do we have for them, Johnny?"

Now, about that lag…

[Qie Niangao]

Suddenly I'm interested. (sorry)

Is there anything like a "Theory of Events"?

Or best practices for event design?

They seem to walk a line between

• interesting in-world experience, and
• efficient distributor of product (where the product is the "interesting" part).

A fuzzy line. Shoppers wander across it all the time, going to product-focused events one day, and the next day to events that are all about that "interesting experience" (for example, those of a certain sort may enjoy Second Pride* right now).

Which merchants favor one or the other type of event to unveil their very best product?

_______________
*Look it up yourself, I'm just a satisfied spectator.

[Lysistrata Szapira]

There is no difference between using a comprehensive shopping blog with pictures of all items at events in SL and using a sales flyer for grocery stores or Costco or JC Penney.  I look through the pictures and prices and decide what I want and if I want it NOW (like Veruca Salt) or if I can wait.  Make all the disparaging remarks about Seraphim you want, but it's saved me (and plenty of other people) lots of time and money.

One of the other benefits of shopping blogs is learning which stores DO NOT fit my style, so I know to avoid them.  There is no demo in world or out that's going to make me buy clothes at (fill in the blank) because they're a)template stuff or b)babygirl/ho wear/Kardashian clone stuff.

I've got alts. I just log them in to pick up demos, as I can run two concurrent sessions.  I don't really see a need for transfer demos.  

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

I mean, it's all pixels anyway. The difference between what's on the blog and what's on the in-world vendor is often minimal.

( 'course the product is all pixels, too, but that's a deeper topic)

There are so many event variants (like a virus)
even tour-of-mainstores
by dreaded teleport
powered by a HUD with 'tude
and notecards of hard-to-click landmarks

Mutant commerce, speciating

[Silent Mistwalker]

Apparently my definition of shopping is nothing like everyone else's. What with the blogs and all, it has taken the fun out of shopping and turned it into a time consuming chore. I will never understand why humans want to suck all the fun and enjoyment out of life. Yay for technology? ☹️

Edited June 5, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[Wulfie Reanimator]

7 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Apparently my definition of shopping is nothing like everyone else's. What with the blogs and all, it has taken the fun out of shopping and turned it into a time consuming chore. I will never understand why humans want to suck all the fun and enjoyment out of life. Yay for technology? ☹️

What is your definition of shopping?

[Rolig Loon]

10 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Apparently my definition of shopping is nothing like everyone else's. What with the blogs and all, it has taken the fun out of shopping and turned it into a time consuming chore. I will never understand why humans want to suck all the fun and enjoyment out of life. Yay for technology? ☹️

That's what shopping usually is for me. A necessity,  not a recreation. 

[Psyche Starling]

For me, it doesn't consume more time to read the blogs! It takes time either way--time to walk around the event, or time to read the blogs. For some events the aesthetic is part of the experience, and sometimes I do just go wander around at those, but for events where it's just standard booths, I'm probably spending slightly less time (because less lag) by browsing the blogs first rather than going in without any sort of goal.

[Rowan Amore]

25 minutes ago, BookishMelinoe said:

For me, it doesn't consume more time to read the blogs! It takes time either way--time to walk around the event, or time to read the blogs. For some events the aesthetic is part of the experience, and sometimes I do just go wander around at those, but for events where it's just standard booths, I'm probably spending slightly less time (because less lag) by browsing the blogs first rather than going in without any sort of goal.

When an event opens, that's when I check the blog to see if there is anything I'd love to have ASAP.  After a couple weeks, I usually go back and grab demos from things I might like.  The crowds have thinned and it's a much more.pleasant experience.

[Psyche Starling]

18 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

When an event opens, that's when I check the blog to see if there is anything I'd love to have ASAP.  After a couple weeks, I usually go back and grab demos from things I might like.  The crowds have thinned and it's a much more.pleasant experience.

Yeah, I do this too--for example, yesterday, I hit We Love Roleplay and grabbed a couple of things I 100% loved. And I also have made a mental note that there are 2 or 3 other things I'll go back for if I find I'm still thinking about them later in the month.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

What is your definition of shopping?

To me shopping is this:

 

Not this:

 

There was a time when people would get together and go shopping in SL just like they would do in RL. That was fun and enjoyable. Today's shopping events are just a PITA.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

1 hour ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

There was a time when people would get together and go shopping in SL just like they would do in RL. That was fun and enjoyable. Today's shopping events are just a PITA.

I don't go to events, but do you not agree that the other method is more convenient and less time-consuming? It can be done socially with friends, too.

[Psyche Starling]

My friends and I sometimes still do that! But we use the blogs to plan ahead. So we'll all get together somewhere inworld and meet up. We'll look at the blogs and figure out what stores or events we want to go to, and then we'll all go as a group to each of them, while chatting in voice or group chat the whole time. There's nothing about blogs that prevents you from talking to your friends while you shop.

Edited June 5, 2021 by BookishMelinoe

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

I don't go to events, but do you not agree that the other method is more convenient and less time-consuming? It can be done socially with friends, too.

Sorry, no, I don't agree. It is not more convenient for me. I'm not alone in that either. There's just no point in griping about it because it won't ever change.

Ever try to explain to a 7/8 year old what a phone booth is and see the looks on their faces? Or phone books? Or any thing that has become "obsolete" in the past 30 years? 

Some changes are not improvements. No, I don't mean phone booths or phone books.

[MoiraKathleen]

I don't go to very many events, and mostly when I do it's because I've received a NC from a store group I already belong to with information and a picture of something they have at an event, and if It looks like something I'd like, I go to that event.   One of the stores which does that has the demos available at their store location, so I go there first to get the demo, which to me seems like a good way to handle the demos for events.  

I've looked at some of the event blogs several times, but it's not very interesting to me.  I don't have the means, or the desire anymore, to shop just for the sake of shopping.  When I buy things now, it's because it's something that I really like and that I think I would actually use. So I shop at stores inworld that I know I like the items and styles from and then sometimes go to events where they have an item I am interested in.    When I do go to an event, I do like the ones that are set up with some type of theme/ambiance rather than just rows of stalls - at least that makes it interesting to wander around and window shop. 

 

 

[Wulfie Reanimator]

58 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Sorry, no, I don't agree. It is not more convenient for me. I'm not alone in that either. There's just no point in griping about it because it won't ever change.

Ever try to explain to a 7/8 year old what a phone booth is and see the looks on their faces? Or phone books? Or any thing that has become "obsolete" in the past 30 years? 

Some changes are not improvements. No, I don't mean phone booths or phone books.

Having to boot up a viewer and log in (assuming grid isn't down) finding a landmark and teleport to a place, hoping you don't crash on TP (assuming sim isn't down/full), waiting for things to rez, physically walking through a laggy-maze store while dodging people, waiting for more things to rez while hoping not to randomly crash or disconnect for no reason...

It's not awful, but my zoomer brain is having a little trouble understanding how you can say that using the Marketplace (or a blog you follow, like browsing the magazines that arrives at your door IRL) is more of a hassle than what we all have to deal with on SL.

That's not true, I'm not a zoomer and I do understand, because I'm the same way with other things that I grew up with and think have changed for the worse. But still, I think we could at least agree that shopping in-world is a lot more involved -- whether that's good or bad is whatever.

[Solar Legion]

I simply cannot agree with some of the sentiment on in world shopping vs doing so on the MP. Both have their uses, advantages/disadvantages and both have their place.

Barring a shop having a link into CasperVend (as an example), the MP is preferable to ensure one can get a redelivery/update if needed.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Having to boot up a viewer and log in (assuming grid isn't down) finding a landmark and teleport to a place, hoping you don't crash on TP (assuming sim isn't down/full), waiting for things to rez, physically walking through a laggy-maze store while dodging people, waiting for more things to rez while hoping not to randomly crash or disconnect for no reason...

It's not awful, but my zoomer brain is having a little trouble understanding how you can say that using the Marketplace (or a blog you follow, like browsing the magazines that arrives at your door IRL) is more of a hassle than what we all have to deal with on SL.

That's not true, I'm not a zoomer and I do understand, because I'm the same way with other things that I grew up with and think have changed for the worse. But still, I think we could at least agree that shopping in-world is a lot more involved -- whether that's good or bad is whatever.

I never said using the MP was a hassle or even more of a  hassle. I do agree using the MP is a hassle but it's the only hassle SL/LL has. 

I don't do blogs. Not interested. 

You do you, I'll do me.

[auntiemisha]

On 6/2/2021 at 2:48 PM, Qie Niangao said:

Suppose I see a product and thank it might be just perfect for an alt or an offline friend, but they'd need to try the demo first. How do I get a copy of the demo to them? My own copy of the demo is virtually never transferable, and the demo vendor almost never offers a Gift option.

Maybe it's a crowded shopping event and they aren't Premium so they can't get in themselves, even if I'm motivated to IM them an object link* to the vendor.

It's not that these alts and friends suffer (at least not that they'll ever know) but how is this in the best interest of the merchant to make it so crazy difficult to share a demo of their product?

This even applies in merchants' main stores, so I doubt this would be a restriction imposed by event venues (is it)?

I don't think this is anything new; I've wondered about it for years and only just now thought to ask.

_____________
*Object links—geeky tangent—can be very handy but many users don't seem to know about them. They're a kind of viewer text link produced in the format secondlife:///app/objectim/<objectUUID>/… that from outside the region should offer an option to teleport to the object location (and from inside the region, potentially several other options).

Hi I'm curious about object links -- I tried to create one by adding object UUID (from Build "Copy Keys") as you mention, but although it seems correctly formed, I can't teleport to it (although it does give me that option).  Is there something to put in the "..." of your mention?   secondlife:///app/objectim/<objectUUID>/…

[Qie Niangao]

4 hours ago, auntiemisha said:

Hi I'm curious about object links -- I tried to create one by adding object UUID (from Build "Copy Keys") as you mention, but although it seems correctly formed, I can't teleport to it (although it does give me that option).  Is there something to put in the "..." of your mention?   secondlife:///app/objectim/<objectUUID>/…

Yeah. I don't remember for sure without consulting one of my scripts, but I remember it being kinda fussy. That link to the Viewer URI Namespace article includes this:

Quote

secondlife:// 
/app 
/objectim

/<object_id> display an info dialog for the object sending this message (2.0)

?name=<object_name>

&owner=<owner_id>

&groupowned=true (add if the object is deeded to a group)

&slurl=<region>/<x>/<y>/<z>

where I recall needing to specify most, maybe all those details to get a fully workable link. If it doesn't readily confess, ping me and I'll extract some working sample code. 

[Qie Niangao]

8 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

… ping me and I'll extract some working sample code. 

or eventually I'll bestir myself to just post some:
 

// Copyright 2021 Qie Niangao: Released into Public Domain

string objectURI(key object)
{
    if (ZERO_VECTOR != llGetAgentSize(object))  // avatar
        return "secondlife:///app/agent/"+(string)object+"/inspect";
    list details = llGetObjectDetails(object, [OBJECT_NAME, OBJECT_OWNER, OBJECT_GROUP, OBJECT_POS]);
    key objectOwner = llList2Key(details, 1);
    vector objectPos = llList2Vector(details, 3);
    vector objectGlobalPos = llGetRegionCorner()+objectPos;
    string ownerString;
    if (NULL_KEY != objectOwner)
        ownerString = (string)objectOwner;
    else
        ownerString = (string)llList2Key(details, 2)+"&groupowned=true";
    return "secondlife:///app/objectim/"+(string)object
      + "?name="+llEscapeURL(llList2String(details, 0))
      + "&owner="+ownerString
      +  "&slurl="+llEscapeURL(llGetRegionName())
          +  "/"+(string)objectPos.x+"/"+(string)objectPos.y+"/"+(string)objectPos.z;    
}

default
{
    touch_start(integer num_detected)
    {
        llWhisper(0, objectURI(llGetKey()));
        // test using the scripted object itself
        // (but if group-owned, llOwnerSay() won't work)
    }
    touch_end(integer num_detected)
    {
        // on release, test using the toucher's ID
        llWhisper(0, objectURI(llDetectedKey(0)));
    }
}

which gives text that when right-clicked works the same on the Lab viewer, Firestorm, and Catznip, giving this pop-up:

(where "Copy SLurl to clipboard" is handy for sharing that object link in IM with friends, alts, creators, etc.)

When left-clicked:

for Firestorm and the Lab viewer, but

for Catznip. That "Touch" button in the main dialog changes to "Buy" or "Pay" if the object is set for sale or is scripted to take payments. Very handy.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Qie Niangao
(remove redundant image)