I've Worked Every Thanksgiving of My Life. Why Can't the Lindens?

[TT120]

16 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I totally get it that the Lindens work hard and are overstretched but then so are a lot of us.

But...every RL job I've had has always required me to work on Thanksgiving because it's the nature of my jobs.

So why can't the Lindens?

 

I'm guessing because it's NOT the nature of their jobs.

[Nalates Urriah]

18 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Yeah, we're the little guys, and we don't count like you do, Nalates, I'm full cogniscent of this reality.

I don't doubt that if your sims had this error they'd be fixed already. I do know how it works.

The operations people on duty do not look at support tickets. That's reasonable but you would think the bot's version of this ticket with the key words like "sim down" or "Routed to wrong  region" might get them to put down their Red Bulls and Ring Dings for a minute for a look-see.

Let me think now. On the one hand you admit LL is not a big bureaucracy and that's preferable but on the other hand if a small business is preferable because it's more responsive, that doesn't work. I know, because I'm a small business in SL and so I put down my pumpkin pie and came rushing in when I got a slew of IMs with the usual hate and venom assuming that I had done something deliberately -- had blocked people from their rentals because I thought they hadn't paid (a tactic discussed in another threat which frankly never occurred to me to do in 16 years of this work).

In that way, my tenants, largely non-computer related, are just like you on the forums in the tech world, because they always assume that it is "Prokofy's fault" on "Prokofy's land" and that "Prokofy has griefed them," rather than grasping that once again, it's about LL's software.

I immediately got on the problem and gave people alternative rentals. In RL, we're also working on Thanksgiving, as part of the vast gig economy supporting major media because they need it yesterday.

It's a two-day holiday and they may answer Saturday or may not.

 

Wow... lots of projection there...

[bigmoe Whitfield]

14 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Speaking as someone that rarely agrees with Prokofy, I agree with Prokofy.

If you're offering a 24/7 service, you'd better have someone available 24/7. I don't get to pay less that month if the region is down for a day, they shouldn't be taking the day off.

99.8% up time is all any one can guarantee, it happens, I know, I am in the industry and when it break, omg, does it break, and which point of failure is the issue, since we have many boxes that replicate every couple hours,  but the issue becomes,  which data center, which aws node,  how many, is it us, or is it them,   I see companies offering 100% uptime,   yeah good luck with that, that's not how one does business and says in profit.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

never assume anything about any company or any service provided by said company as to what level of support will be around 24/7/365. If you do this it only makes you look stupid. just because abc company works or has support on holidays for problems does not mean xyz company will or has too.. even if it provides a 24/7 service such as gaming. People are allowed to have holidays and not work. Just because some companies don't provide for that doesn't mean all companies have to act like that company just to keep its customer base happy. tough for anyone that doesn't like that answer, you don't get to dictate how the company acts and never did.

You may be a customer but you are not in control and never was or will be. You have no special rights or entitlements or privilege's ever and never did. The customer is not always right in what they want, when or how or why ever.. that is not how real life works. Only egotistical people believe in such manners.

[Prokofy Neva]

8 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

never assume anything about any company or any service provided by said company as to what level of support will be around 24/7/365. If you do this it only makes you look stupid. just because abc company works or has support on holidays for problems does not mean xyz company will or has too.. even if it provides a 24/7 service such as gaming. People are allowed to have holidays and not work. Just because some companies don't provide for that doesn't mean all companies have to act like that company just to keep its customer base happy. tough for anyone that doesn't like that answer, you don't get to dictate how the company acts and never did.

You may be a customer but you are not in control and never was or will be. You have no special rights or entitlements or privilege's ever and never did. The customer is not always right in what they want, when or how or why ever.. that is not how real life works. Only egotistical people believe in such manners.

This is the sort of ridiculous, fact-free statement I expect from the forums.

The Lindens TOS or Service-Level Contract (if they have any with big business, which I doubt) doesn't promise 24/7/365 service. But it is *open* 24/7/365 with all the sims running so you expect that someone looks after them. That's normal. Like in anything in RL or virtual life that is open. Notice that a lot of things on the Internet are open obviously because they are web sites. But banks, the IRS site the Social Security site etc have hours when they are closed, i.e. they won't answer queries. But you can still use the site. Bank sites may be closed for maintenance in the middle of the night when you try to see your balance, but if you go to their ATM terminal in real life, that's not closed.

The idea that being a customer is somehow a status that requires that you "shut up" and "never protest" and "have normal expectations" is one that only the geeks of the forums have -- it's not the norm in many places. In fact when you hear them yell and scream and carry on like banshees about something wrong with Apple's phones or their app store, you realize what hypocrites they are. They protest over nothing.

The customer is always right. That has been true since the days of Johnny Wanamaker and the Woolworth's stores because it is meant as a mindset, an attitude, and approach to business, a willingness to provide compensation or do what you can to make it right. That's because the person who buys from you in the Woolworth's in the small town is the person you have to buy from the next day. Who is a face-to-face customer who might be your neighbour or relative. Of course, the Internet makes everyone strangers with the kind of vicious hostility that even tribes on the Khyber Pass did not bear to foreigners. Only in our age where the incredibly dense geek who has made his brain like an 0/1 computer and looks for literal search-strings and literalness everywhere and guffaws at it can imagine that this statement isn't right. Really, our world has become so terrible now because of people who made themselves like computers in order to code them, pretending that the computers became like them. They didn't.

Just now I checked my sim -- I can teleport to it. Who knows why. My tickets are not answered. I've been checking every hour because you never know. If it persists in this "up" state for an hour I'll tell my tenants to come back.

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Prokofy Neva

[Prokofy Neva]

1 hour ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Wow... lots of projection there...

Walk us through the path of what you did and what happened the last time your sim was down, Nalates. I'll wait.

[Nalates Urriah]

Just now, Prokofy Neva said:

Walk us through the path of what you did and what happened the last time your sim was down, Nalates. I'll wait.

That would have nothing to do with the comments you made that I responded to. Nice try at spin.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

13 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

This is the sort of ridiculous, fact-free statement I expect from the forums.

The Lindens TOS or Service-Level Contract (if they have any with big business, which I doubt) doesn't promise 24/7/365 service. But it is *open* 24/7/365 with all the sims running so you expect that someone looks after them. That's normal. Like in anything in RL or virtual life that is open. Notice that a lot of things on the Internet are open obviously because they are web sites. But banks, the IRS site the Social Security site etc have hours when they are closed, i.e. they won't answer queries. But you can still use the site. Bank sites may be closed for maintenance in the middle of the night when you try to see your balance, but if you go to their ATM terminal in real life, that's not closed.

The idea that being a customer is somehow a status that requires that you "shut up" and "never protest" and "have normal expectations" is one that only the geeks of the forums have -- it's not the norm in many places. In fact when you hear them yell and scream and carry on like banshees about something wrong with Apple's phones or their app store, you realize what hypocrites they are. They protest over nothing.

The customer is always right. That has been true since the days of Johnny Wanamaker and the Woolworth's stores because it is meant as a mindset, an attitude, and approach to business, a willingness to provide compensation or due what you can to make it right. Only in our age where the incredibly dense geek who has made his brain like an 0/1 computer and looks for literal search-strings and literalness everywhere and guffaws at it can imagine that this statement isn't right. Really, our world has become so terrible now because of people who made themselves like computers in order to code them, pretending that the computers became like them. They didn't.

Just now I checked my sim -- I can teleport to it. Who knows why. My tickets are not answered. I've been checking every hour because you never know. If it persists in this "up" state for an hour I'll tell my tenants to come back.

just because it is open 24/7 does not mean they have to keep support staff on hand 24/7. not all companies do this or ever will, no matter how unfair or unjust or wrong or improper business performance, you might think it to be.

the customer is NOT always right and never was. Try and go to a bmw store and order a cheeseburger you will be laughed out of the store. Try and go to a fast food store and demand that they offer you a new car, you will be told to leave. Go to a grocery story that doesn't carry or sell a particular item you want and demand that they do, you will be told its not going happen. go to a retail store that doesn't carry xyz item you want and demand that they get it, they will laugh you out of the store. try and go to a car sales place and demand a new car for a used car price. its not going to happen.. why.. because the customer is NOT always right no matter how much they might want to think they are.

Only arrogant egotistically delusional people think that the customer is always right or always in control. You are nobody special and never was or ever will be. You are a number and that is it. tough if you dont like that.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold

[Prokofy Neva]

5 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

That would have nothing to do with the comments you made that I responded to. Nice try at spin.

No, it wouldn't, because you could describe how you waited 2 days to have a sim fixed like the rest of us, thus proving my point that my expectation that you never have to do that is wrong. But I see you are evading an answer here so I get it.

Just keep going to those Linden office hours, Nalates. For all of us. 

[Prokofy Neva]

2 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

just because it is open 24/7 does not mean they have to keep support staff on hand 24/7. not all companies do this or ever will, no matter how unfair or unjust or wrong or improper business performance, you might think it to be.

the customer is NOT always right and never was. Try and go to a bmw store and order a cheeseburger you will be laughed out of the store. Try and go to a fast food store and demand that they offer you a new car, you will be told to leave. Go to a grocery story that doesn't carry or sell a particular item you want and demand that they do, you will be told its not going happen. go to a retail store that doesn't carry xyz item you want and demand that they get it, they will laugh you out of the store.

Only arrogant egotistically delusional people think that the customer is always right or always in control. You are nobody special and never was or ever will be. You are a number and that is it. tough if you dont like that.

Well, if you read my search-strings more closely, comrade, you will see that I pointed out that even web sites that are not open 24/7 -- and secondlife.com is a web site -- still have options that are open 24/7. And if something like their service being down NOT for routine maintenance was going on, they'd get on it.

I have an idea. Instead of me going to the Taco Bell and asking for a new car, here's a shopping assignment for you: Go to the store and buy a loaf of bread, and if they have eggs, get a dozen.

I'll wait.

PS It's "don't" with an apostrophe.

 

[Ted McGregor]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

 saying F/U in a subtle way that most people won't notice

Like "Please be so kind to turn on your automated self-fornication and forfeit any downtime claims ." ... 

Edited November 27, 2020 by TDD123

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

Just now, Prokofy Neva said:

Well, if you read my search-strings more closely, comrade, you will see that I pointed out that even web sites that are not open 24/7 -- and secondlife.com is a web site -- still have options that are open 24/7. And if something like their service being down NOT for routine maintenance was going on, they'd get on it.

I have an idea. Instead of me going to the Taco Bell and asking for a new car, here's a shopping assignment for you: Go to the store and buy a loaf of bread, and if they have eggs, get a dozen.

I'll wait.

PS It's "don't" with an apostrophe.

 

easily done, because that is what they carry, not because they have to carry them all the time. for there have been times I have been to the store and it had neither eggs or bread that day. did I whine and complain like a entitlement minded brat? NO. I simply waited and came back another day when they did. same goes for this. You dont get to have everything the very moment you want all the time no matter if you think you do or should. You are not nearly as important or special as you might want to think.

grammar nazi's are hilarious when they get bent out of shape because you didnt add in one silly what ever..

[Prokofy Neva]

1 minute ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

easily done, because that is what they carry, not because they have to carry them all the time. for there have been times I have been to the store and it had neither eggs or bread that day. did I whine and complain like a entitlement minded brat? NO. I simply waited and came back another day when they did. same goes for this. You dont get to have everything the very moment you want all the time no matter if you think you do or should. You are not nearly as important or special as you might want to think.

grammar nazi's are hilarious when they get bent out of shape because you didnt add in one silly what ever..

Guess that one flew over your head. Oh, well.

 

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Guess that one flew over your head. Oh, well.

 

no, you were expecting me to say they have it because its normal and expected to be there as part of the service.. I fully understood your attempt at manipulation.

[Nalates Urriah]

13 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

No, it wouldn't, because you could describe how you waited 2 days to have a sim fixed like the rest of us, thus proving my point that my expectation that you never have to do that is wrong. But I see you are evading an answer here so I get it.

Just keep going to those Linden office hours, Nalates. For all of us. 

Someday you'll figure it out and get over your indignation at not getting things your way. 

[Prokofy Neva]

3 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

no, you were expecting me to say they have it because its normal and expected to be there as part of the service.. I fully understood your attempt at manipulation.

Let me point out that Vix Linden is working today, and sent me a polite note explaining that my sim is up and engineers worked on an outage yesterday and it should be good to go now. So while they may have less staff, and may not be as instant as they are when at full strength, and may take 24 hours etc. some do work on the holidays, contrary to your claims and your expectations and your justifications.

As Linden Lab ages, I find that they are so much better culturally than their geek fan base. Not always, not consistently. But generally there has been a rise in their business culture unlike that of the people on the forums who may be unemployed for all I know.

[Prokofy Neva]

2 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Someday you'll figure it out and get over your indignation at not getting things your way. 

Do you use an automatic program to create transcripts of Linden office hours? Or do you do that by hand?

[Solar Legion]

Congrats, you got a message from the skeleton crew.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

3 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Let me point out that Vix Linden is working today, and sent me a polite note explaining that my sim is up and engineers worked on an outage yesterday and it should be good to go now. So while they may have less staff, and may not be as instant as they are when at full strength, and may take 24 hours etc. some do work on the holidays, contrary to your claims and your expectations and your justifications.

As Linden Lab ages, I find that they are so much better culturally than their geek fan base. Not always, not consistently. But generally there has been a rise in their business culture unlike that of the people on the forums who may be unemployed for all I know.

just because some are working does not mean anything at all. does not mean your complaints are any more important than anyone else ever. you were gotten to when they had the time to do so. not because you were important or special or entitled as a customer.

[Chroma Starlight]

While we can understand the gripe that you feel the timeliness of your support experience was disappointing or didn't meet SLAs, and we can understand a post saying that you're frustrated how a period of technological transition can have awkward moments or take longer than expected, it's still hard to understand this seeming suggestion that Linden Lab employees specifically or workers in the USA generally have too much free time away from work for lives, for personal development, for inner enrichment, for their families, for rest and recreation, or that here and everywhere people shouldn't expend extra effort this year in particular in order to make time and space to hold appreciation in their hearts. Why don't you seek ways to transform the negative energy you're feeling into something positive for yourself and others, because I'm sure you'd be very good at that if you did it. Don't seek your happiness from customer service, seek it in your approach to things. That said, I'm sorry to hear your experience was challenging and I hope things get better.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Chroma Starlight
omitted 'of'

[Nalates Urriah]

8 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Let me point out that Vix Linden is working today, and sent me a polite note explaining that my sim is up and engineers worked on an outage yesterday and it should be good to go now. So while they may have less staff, and may not be as instant as they are when at full strength, and may take 24 hours etc. some do work on the holidays, contrary to your claims and your expectations and your justifications.

As Linden Lab ages, I find that they are so much better culturally than their geek fan base. Not always, not consistently. But generally there has been a rise in their business culture unlike that of the people on the forums who may be unemployed for all I know.

Ya know... you are sort of moving into the realm of haters... imagining bad things about people without any evidence to base your comments/opinions on... or are you trying to provoke people... which I suppose is some defense mechanism ...

 

10 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Do you use an automatic program to create transcripts of Linden office hours? Or do you do that by hand?

I used to point to the Linden transcripts. But... you missed that fact and went with a cheap shot.

[Arielle Popstar]

Nothing wrong with voicing a complaint. How else will the Lab know where they might need to add some personnel especially considering their client base is multinational and it is only the USA that has a thanksgiving holiday. Perhaps they did not realize that and needed to have it pointed out.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

There has been throughout this thread a rather unfortunate elision of "Linden Lab," the corporate entity, with "the Lindens," who are, in fact, not the company but employees of it.

Of course LL should have made / be making provision to service its customers over the holidays. Blaming this on "the Lindens" is tantamount to blaming postal employees for not sorting mail when the mail sorting centre is closed. It's not their decision, nor should they, the employees, be blamed for a corporate decision. It's not entitlement or laziness or complacency: they are working, as we might expect, at the dictates of the company.

Companies that continue to operate during holidays do so by offering those who work during that period bonuses and incentives, to compensate for the fact that they are working through family time, holidays, and so forth. (We can thank trade unions for having made that the practice, and the law in most places.) If LL has decided not to do so, or has inadequately staffed its offices for the holiday, that's an administrative and (doubtless) financial decision that they, not their employees, have made.

So, maybe cut "the Lindens" some slack here -- they are just like most of us, employees working at the behest of their employers.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Prokofy Neva]

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

There has been throughout this thread a rather unfortunate elision of "Linden Lab," the corporate entity, with "the Lindens," who are, in fact, not the company but employees of it.

Of course LL should have made / be making provision to service its customers over the holidays. Blaming this on "the Lindens" is tantamount to blaming postal employees for not sorting mail when the mail sorting centre is closed. It's not their decision, nor should they, the employees, be blamed for a corporate decision. It's not entitlement or laziness or complacency: they are working, as we might expect, at the dictates of the company.

Companies that continue to operate during holidays do so by offering those who work during that period bonuses and incentives, to compensate for the fact that they are working through family time, holidays, and so forth. (We can thank trade unions for having made that the practice, and the law in most places.) If LL has decided not to do so, or has inadequately staffed its offices for the holiday, that's an administrative and (doubtless) financial decision that they, not their employees, have made.

So, maybe cut "the Lindens" some slack here -- they are just like most of us, employees working at the behest of their employers.

Scylla, you are very late to this thread.

PS The Lab has always been AT ONE with their employees. There is no rich or poor in Jesus. I think you have never read the Tao of Linden. Let me enlighten you, my child:

Vision and Mission

To connect us all to an online world that improves the human condition.

Company Principles

Work Together.

We are engaged in a wildly ambitious and complex endeavor. We need to take on risk and accept the occasional failure. But we dream, stumble and win only together. This requires a level of creative collaboration you won't find in many companies. You must not only respect but actively seek out differing views, and then find closure after dissent to move forward together. When you look back, do so to find ways to improve rather than to blame.

Walk in our Residents' shoes.

We are blessed by some of the most informed, passionate, committed customers imaginable. They are our reason for being, they are our world, and we call them Residents. They are an insuperable source of advantage and an awesome responsibility. In every choice you make, consider how your choice will impact their experience.

Good People Make Good Choices... and vice versa.

There's love in the spirit of our mission, the enjoyment we take in each others' company, the style and humor we have at our best. We're here because we're open to all the wonders of the world and the goodness in each other; even the cynics among us harbor the begrudging belief that all things are possible. This is a place where you can be you, and we ask you to make the choices that enable your colleagues to bring out the best in themselves.

Be thoughtful and transparent.

We build trust through transparent and open communication. Be prolific in your communication but thoughtful, and remember that context is key. Report on your progress regularly and in language that benefits the widest possible range of your colleagues. You are responsible for ensuring that your messages reach your intended audience - make sure your signal does not become noise.

No Politics.

Sharing our mission requires that you honor this rule at all times: Never act to advance your own interests or someone else's interests at the expense of the interests of the company.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Prokofy Neva

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Prokofy Neva said:

Scylla, you are very late to this thread.

IKR?

But the Committee cut back on hours, and we have a skeleton crew working the Revolution this weekend, so, well . . . busy busy busy!