I wish the "Games" category in destinations actually had games.

[Cackle Amore]

It's just full of those trashy casino sims instead. Honestly, I thought they just kind of died out ages ago when they got quarantined into isolation.

And why are they called 'skill gaming'? There's no skill or games to be had in slot machines >:v

[Coffee Pancake]

SL being used to make actual games, wouldn't that be a thing.

[Lindal Kidd]

Hi Digit!  Those games are called "skill games" to distinguish them from "gambling".

Because of RL laws concerning online gambling, LL banned it from Second Life back in 2007.  Gambling is defined as a game in which the winner is determined primarily by random chance.  However, some slot machines don't depend on random chance in awarding prizes; the winner is determined (at least primarily) based on the player's skill.

If you don't agree with the above, don't blame me!  This is LL's definition, not mine.

If you don't like slot machines, there are tons of other games to be found in SL...just not under the Games section of the Destination Guide.  There's football, hockey, sailboat racing, chess, tennis, pool, Go, ice skating, ski jumping, bowling, darts, waterslides, skydiving, scuba diving, hunting (and zombie hunting), several forms of combat, shooting ranges, quest-type games, Linden Realms (a sort of live action Pac-Man), capture roleplay, WarBugs (aerial dogfighting in cute little airplanes) surfing...probably many others too, those are just the ones I've personally run across or played.

[Teager]

I wish SL were better equipped to make custom games! We've seen the beginnings of gaming infrastructure with experiences, but I'd love to see tools better empowered to create a game within a game. Built-in infrastructure to control the look of the user's avatar, to create custom quests of various kinds (kill quests, gather quests, escort quests, etc), to create custom UI's and camera sequences and story mapping... would open SO many doors for second life!

I know that I, as someone who aspires to one day create an indy MMO, have boggled over the hard problems with multiplayer gaming: replication, networking, security... and then come back to SL where that's all handled for us, and breathe a sigh of relief. If we could actually use that infrastructure to create custom games as artists, without having to reinvent the wheel... second life could do so much! I had thought from early talks about Sansar that that was what Sansar was intended to be, but looking at it today I don't feel like that is their goal any longer.

[Erwin Solo]

Yeah, every bloke who spends 10 hours in Blender training think's they can make a better virtual world than SL.  What's the female equivalent of bloke?  Them too. 

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

3 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

WarBugs (aerial dogfighting in cute little airplanes)

Oh, yes, I LOVE those! 

7 hours ago, Digit Gears said:

I wish the "Games" category in destinations actually had games.

Are you talking about shooter games and other action games, like the ones you can find on Steam? Don't expect the games in SL to be like those. They are not, because of an extra, very thick layer of abstraction between your computer's processors and your screen--the Second Life virtual world framework. This limits games in SL to the most basic and simplistic zombie shooter games that by no means rival Left 4 Dead. What SL is very capable of is hosting Escape the Room-like point & click adventures, like Myst, Portal, or Talos. Linden Lab (of Linden Realms), MadPea and Loki Elliot do quite a good job at that. And them there's board and table games, because of their inherent slower pace. Those are skill games, not in the legal sense but of the brain. There are many merchants out there selling those, including a very vague acquaintance of mine.

Also, I suspect that SL's Destinations pages aren't the most up-to-date or accurate.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[ThorinII]

5 hours ago, Teager said:

I wish SL were better equipped to make custom games! We've seen the beginnings of gaming infrastructure with experiences, but I'd love to see tools better empowered to create a game within a game. Built-in infrastructure to control the look of the user's avatar, to create custom quests of various kinds (kill quests, gather quests, escort quests, etc), to create custom UI's and camera sequences and story mapping... would open SO many doors for second life!

I know that I, as someone who aspires to one day create an indy MMO, have boggled over the hard problems with multiplayer gaming: replication, networking, security... and then come back to SL where that's all handled for us, and breathe a sigh of relief. If we could actually use that infrastructure to create custom games as artists, without having to reinvent the wheel... second life could do so much! I had thought from early talks about Sansar that that was what Sansar was intended to be, but looking at it today I don't feel like that is their goal any longer.

To be honest, I'm glad there are not so many actual games in-world. And not so many quests. If you want to play MMO's or quests, install one of the million actual *games* on your computer and play there, but don't use SL for it.

I'd even ban gambling games like the various slot machines, like Greedy, and other so-called "skill games" if *I* had a say -- which would result in even fewer games in-world.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

The big issue i've seen is that most of the extensive games/simulations I've seen rely completely on a steady stream of microtransactions.

This is telling me that there might be a market issue where people would love to play games but absolutely refuse to pay what they are worth. Making big games is hard, and SL makes it just a bit harder because a lot of the "control" you might need on particpants to get the game working is kept away from the scripter to prevent griefing.

[Lucia Nightfire]

Prior to 2014, we used to get quarterly script additions courtesy of Andrew and Kelly Linden, but then Andrew left LL at the end of 2013 and Kelly went to work on Sansar.

Since then the only time we get scripted functions is when they are tied to major features such as Materials, Bento, Animesh, EEP,  Bakes on Mesh, etc.

LL needs to invest in regular script function additions to evolve the platform and give creators more tools to create with.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

7 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Prior to 2014, we used to get quarterly script additions courtesy of Andrew and Kelly Linden, but then Andrew left LL at the end of 2013 and Kelly went to work on Sansar.

Since then the only time we get scripted functions is when they are tied to major features such as Materials, Bento, Animesh, EEP,  Bakes on Mesh, etc.

LL needs to invest in regular script function additions to evolve the platform and give creators more tools to create with.

Or when it's more or less a one liner.

But it's also a mentality issue, everytime I ask more power through scripting I get some very vocal opposition from some people...

I still remember the person who was asking for a list of toggle switches for experiences so that they could join an experience, yet grant to it no permissions (AKA: "how dare you condition access to your build to an experience!").

Edited June 7, 2019 by Kyrah Abattoir

[Lucia Nightfire]

2 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Or when it's more or less a one liner.

It seems like today it takes an act of Congress to just get new llGetObjectDetails() or llGetEnv() constants, heh.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

I got lucky with CLICK_ACTION_NONE I'm not sure why it went through so quickly.

[Very Vanilla]

14 hours ago, ThorinII said:

To be honest, I'm glad there are not so many actual games in-world. And not so many quests. If you want to play MMO's or quests, install one of the million actual *games* on your computer and play there, but don't use SL for it.

I'd even ban gambling games like the various slot machines, like Greedy, and other so-called "skill games" if *I* had a say -- which would result in even fewer games in-world.

no_fun_allowed.png

[Cackle Amore]

On 6/6/2019 at 8:54 PM, Lindal Kidd said:

Hi Digit!  Those games are called "skill games" to distinguish them from "gambling".

Because of RL laws concerning online gambling, LL banned it from Second Life back in 2007.  Gambling is defined as a game in which the winner is determined primarily by random chance.  However, some slot machines don't depend on random chance in awarding prizes; the winner is determined (at least primarily) based on the player's skill.

If you don't agree with the above, don't blame me!  This is LL's definition, not mine.

If you don't like slot machines, there are tons of other games to be found in SL...just not under the Games section of the Destination Guide.  There's football, hockey, sailboat racing, chess, tennis, pool, Go, ice skating, ski jumping, bowling, darts, waterslides, skydiving, scuba diving, hunting (and zombie hunting), several forms of combat, shooting ranges, quest-type games, Linden Realms (a sort of live action Pac-Man), capture roleplay, WarBugs (aerial dogfighting in cute little airplanes) surfing...probably many others too, those are just the ones I've personally run across or played.

Well that's the thing, I did take a peek at that 'freebie casino' place out of curiosity, and while calling em all slot machines is, I admit, somewhat of a sneer, they are still very much reliant on RNG to an extent.

And the stuff you mention afterwards is like, exactly what I'm talking about, the 'Games' category SHOULD be full of places for those!

[Cackle Amore]

On 6/7/2019 at 12:08 AM, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Oh, yes, I LOVE those! 

Are you talking about shooter games and other action games, like the ones you can find on Steam? Don't expect the games in SL to be like those. They are not, because of an extra, very thick layer of abstraction between your computer's processors and your screen--the Second Life virtual world framework. This limits games in SL to the most basic and simplistic zombie shooter games that by no means rival Left 4 Dead. What SL is very capable of is hosting Escape the Room-like point & click adventures, like Myst, Portal, or Talos. Linden Lab (of Linden Realms), MadPea and Loki Elliot do quite a good job at that. And them there's board and table games, because of their inherent slower pace. Those are skill games, not in the legal sense but of the brain. There are many merchants out there selling those, including a very vague acquaintance of mine.

And ya, I know, SL sadly does have it's limitations, just would be nice to see the more proper attempts as game stuff in SL get the spotlight instead of a dozen generic wannabe casino sims. Much like things you mentioned, the things MadPea's do and similiar places that are hooked up to those Portal Park sims, those are what I feel, should be getting pushed into the spotlight for the games category.

Heck, there's even a little spawnable RPG game that exists in SL, though it is a bit lewd. I remember being utterly in awe when I first played it.

Quote

Also, I suspect that SL's Destinations pages aren't the most up-to-date or accurate.

Yeah, I think that destinations place just seems to sort by how many people are in them, though maybe there's something else that determines what specific places have a chance to show up in em as well.

Quote

To be honest, I'm glad there are not so many actual games in-world. And not so many quests. If you want to play MMO's or quests, install one of the million actual *games* on your computer and play there, but don't use SL for it.

@ThorinII
What would be so bad about there being more in-world games and quest's and such in SL? It'd give people things to do other than just idling in what ever random club is the flavor of the month. 

Also something you could drag along new friends to all while you get to sport your very own near limitlessly customizable character \o/

If someone someday was ever able to successfully combine SL with other social games like PSHome and TowerUnite, I'd be all in on that in a heart beat.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Digit Gears

[ThorinII]

1 hour ago, Digit Gears said:

@ThorinII
What would be so bad about there being more in-world games and quest's and such in SL? It'd give people things to do other than just idling in what ever random club is the flavor of the month. 

Also something you could drag along new friends to all while you get to sport your very own near limitlessly customizable character \o/

If someone someday was ever able to successfully combine SL with other social games like PSHome and TowerUnite, I'd be all in on that in a heart beat.

2

I just think SL has a lot more to offer than some stupid games or even stupider quests. If people don't know what to do in their spare time, then they're wrong in this virtual world anyway.

With my first account, I was a newbie helper, and you won't believe how many uttered these stupid questions "What shall I do next?", "Where do I have to go now?", or even "What is there to do to gain other levels?" (No, I'm not kidding!😡) Some even treated us newbie helpers like some sort of NPC. That's why I think that this kind of people is absolutely wrong in-world and that it's no loss whenever one of them leaves and returns to their stupid and over-prized computer games. 😈

[Lindal Kidd]

Well, maybe, with some of them.  But I always try to explain SL to people like this.  Sometimes, it works.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

20 hours ago, Digit Gears said:

And ya, I know, SL sadly does have it's limitations, just would be nice to see the more proper attempts as game stuff in SL get the spotlight instead of a dozen generic wannabe casino sims. Much like things you mentioned, the things MadPea's do and similiar places that are hooked up to those Portal Park sims, those are what I feel, should be getting pushed into the spotlight for the games category.

There used to be ant it used to be promoted, but at some point big established RP sims started hijacking the game competitions to promote their regions rather than making a new game for the event.

[ThorinII]

13 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Well, maybe, with some of them.  But I always try to explain SL to people like this.  Sometimes, it works.

Sometimes. But in most cases of gamer-newbies, it doesn't.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

21 hours ago, ThorinII said:

I just think SL has a lot more to offer than some stupid games or even stupider quests. If people don't know what to do in their spare time, then they're wrong in this virtual world anyway.

The elitism isn't netting you any points there.

[Mollymews]

On 6/9/2019 at 6:48 AM, ThorinII said:

With my first account, I was a newbie helper, and you won't believe how many uttered these stupid questions "What shall I do next?", "Where do I have to go now?", or even "What is there to do to gain other levels?" (No, I'm not kidding!😡)

wooah!

answering the same questions over and over again takes a lot of patience and is not everyone to do.  A thing that we have to remember when acting as s new person helper, is that each question is new to them - the person asking. The person asking is not the same person who asked this exact same question as the person before, and the other person before them

with new people who do use gamer references in their chat, then my approach is to chat back to them using phrasing that they can relate too. If they ask about levels/roles/characters then reply with gamer-relatable descriptors like Explorer, Builder, Merchant, etc in the context of in-game levels and goals.  With non-gamers then use the same descriptors but refer to them in a RL comparative context

[Kyrah Abattoir]

That's not a bad approach @Mollymews SL can be a lot to take in if you don't know what you just got into. my first day in SL back in the days was a fairly long string of "now what?". But at the same time, I already knew what "social mmos" where back then since I migrated from there.com

Speaking of there.com, they had an interesting system of "levels" back then (and I assume they still do) and it could be cool to build a little achievement hud to encourage newbies to explore and experiment with things. Give them an excuse to do their first exploration, or to try to socialize with other people.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Speaking of there.com, they had an interesting system of "levels" back then (and I assume they still do) and it could be cool to build a little achievement hud to encourage newbies to explore and experiment with things. Give them an excuse to do their first exploration, or to try to socialize with other people.

There also had a different physics set up, and while you're limited to hover boards or buggies, they are still dramatically better that even the very best SL has ever been able to manage.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

1 minute ago, CoffeeDujour said:

There also had a different physics set up, and while you're limited to hover boards or buggies, they are still dramatically better that even the very best SL has ever been able to manage.

I see you're a connoisseur

[Teager]

On 6/8/2019 at 1:48 PM, ThorinII said:

I just think SL has a lot more to offer than some stupid games or even stupider quests. If people don't know what to do in their spare time, then they're wrong in this virtual world anyway.

With my first account, I was a newbie helper, and you won't believe how many uttered these stupid questions "What shall I do next?", "Where do I have to go now?", or even "What is there to do to gain other levels?" (No, I'm not kidding!😡) Some even treated us newbie helpers like some sort of NPC. That's why I think that this kind of people is absolutely wrong in-world and that it's no loss whenever one of them leaves and returns to their stupid and over-prized computer games. 😈

It's okay for SL to cater to more than one kind of person, or to people who like more than one thing. If gaming isn't your cup of tea, that's perfectly fine; you don't need to play games in sl. The fact that you personally don't want to play them doesn't mean that no one else does, nor does it mean that it would be a bad thing to develop further infrastructure to empower creators to make them.

The average resident in sl is over 30 years old. Outside of sl, the under-30 demographic has a heavy involvement with video games and mobile games. Creating new infrastructure for game development could be a fantastic way to open sl to new, younger users and further boost the sl economy, promising greater longevity to the overall platform... Not to mention unlocking a lot of doors for current creators to make even cooler stuff. You might be surprised by the ways creators might find to use features intended for games to instead expand upon experiences like clubbing, sailing, and even shopping

Edited June 10, 2019 by Teager